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DoctorWhat posted:Weapon durability is good because it is good when games make you feel bad for even a single second. This is why the time limit in Majora's Mask is good, also. what the gently caress does this even mean lmao DoctorWhat posted:The hostility many gamers have towards any kind of inconvenience or disempowerment is not an indication of an objective flaw in game design; it reflects player impatience and an industry that is reticent to deny players unqualified gratification. what a fuckin ridiculous thing to say. i grew up in the snes era and the games back then did a hell of a lot more, and a hell of a lot worse, than botw did regarding inconvenience or disempowerment. you wanna talk about patience, try sitting down and beating an old shmup some time, or super ghouls 'n ghosts. those games are the definition of patience, ESPECIALLY sg'ng, a game where if you try to go through it fast you won't get off the first fuckin level on easy. DoctorWhat posted:Lastly, the gut-level hatred of these mechanics is principally the domain of old farts. When kids at work talk about BotW, weapon durability is never a criticism. literally none of the people in the video gamers club at my campus liked the durability system. even the girl who said botw was her favorite game ever said she hoped botw2 would ditch it. Ibram Gaunt posted:The weapons were boring as poo poo and it never felt exciting to find another guardian sword or w/e. Durability is good, it was not good in BOTW. i mean, yeah. i mostly just ended up grinding the same few weapons, especially after getting the ancient armor. the game does not actually incentivize using different types of weapons in combat in any circumstance. maybe there's an argument to their utility in puzzles, but quite frankly i found most of the puzzles in the game to be underwhelming and so many can just be cheesed by rune abuse that it greatly reduces any interesting ways you could use weapons in them.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:12
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I despise adhoc durability mechanics in games but in BoTW it didn't bother me at all since the game showers you in weapons anyway so it doesn't matter. My actual criticism of the game is the sense of wonder, discovery, and danger from the early game disappears towards the end, but until then it's amazing.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:15
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Stormgale posted:Hot take, assuming that like in n Because ammo lets you use the same weapon. When you find a gun you like you can use it until you run out of ammo, then find more ammo and you can continue to use it. In BotW if you find a weapon you like you can kill 2 or maybe 3 enemies with it and it's kaput and you're forced to scavenge whatever garbage is nearby much of which will probably be way less fun to use. I felt like I spent like 1/3 of the game using big two handers despite finding that combat style very sluggish, unresponsive and unfun, because they were what was available. Whereas if I'd been able to just get a nice unbreakable spear, the funnest weapon to use, I would have had a much better time. It is kinda fun to find yourself disarmed and have to scavenge around but not enough to make up for not letting you use the weapon types you like over the ones you don't for me. I had the same problem with Halo, except probably worse. Find a cool weapon and get to use it for a few minutes but spend most of the game using weapons you don't like just cuz they're what's available.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:21
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The issue there is less durability itself and more that they didn't balance spears well with the fact they they're low-damage, high-hit in mind.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:23
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:what a fuckin ridiculous thing to say. i grew up in the snes era and the games back then did a hell of a lot more, and a hell of a lot worse, than botw did regarding inconvenience or disempowerment. you wanna talk about patience, try sitting down and beating an old shmup some time, or super ghouls 'n ghosts. those games are the definition of patience, ESPECIALLY sg'ng, a game where if you try to go through it fast you won't get off the first fuckin level on easy. I'm sorry dude but this post may be the most dusty old gaming fart thing I've ever seen. Also I think it's insane to grind for weapons in BotW. I had so many all the time that I was just throwing them and throwing them. I would save one flame sword for if I had to go to a cold place or something. Casey Finnigan fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 02:23
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i mean poo poo i'm playing a lot of animal crossing new horizons right now, and i am way more willing to accept the durability system in that game because at least there's a justification for it that makes sense: you're making tools out of random poo poo you find lying on the ground on a deserted island. i am way more willing to accept the fishing pole i made out of a few tree branches breaking just by the sheer fact that it seems like something that would break easily. meanwhile in botw the fuckin master goddamn sword 'runs out of power' after a short time using it and there's never any justification for this.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:26
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Spek posted:Because ammo lets you use the same weapon. When you find a gun you like you can use it until you run out of ammo, then find more ammo and you can continue to use it. This is my point though, how is your fave weapon breaking until you find a new one different from you not being able to use the super shotgun till you find more shotgun ammo? Stormgale fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 02:27
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Casey Finnigan posted:I'm sorry dude but this post may be the most dusty old gaming fart thing I've ever seen. my point is that saying complaints about botw's garbage durability system is just down to impatience is completely ridiculous, but by all means dismiss that point and just call me old i guess. i don't expect anything more substantial by anyone insane enough to twist themselves into pretzels to defend an absolutely shitterrible system, after all.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:32
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it was good because it made me engage with more tacticl elements of combat by using my runes and stealth and poo poo and that made the game more engaging, imo
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Mar 26, 2020 02:33
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Stormgale posted:This is my point though, how is your fave weapon breaking until you find a new one different from you not being able to use the super shotgun till you find more shotgun ammo? Because most shooters(in my experience at least) dont balance ammo availability around blocking you off from using your favourite weapons. Then again I don't particularly like it there either. It's one of the many reasons I consider Mass Effect 1 to be the best shooter I've played. No ammo and the weapon mods were super fun to play with. Like having all the variety of weapons of a looter shooter without having to hope the RNG gods bless you with the combination of effects you actually want to use. And then ME2 went and ruined it.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:42
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:my point is that saying complaints about botw's garbage durability system is just down to impatience is completely ridiculous, but by all means dismiss that point and just call me old i guess. i don't expect anything more substantial by anyone insane enough to twist themselves into pretzels to defend an absolutely shitterrible system, after all. You can be a dusty old gaming fart even if you're 18 years old. It's an attitude. Actually, if you follow speedrunning and stuff there seem to be a whole lot of people like that. The system works well in the context of the game. In the sequel they should give some quests that let you get one unbreakable version of each weapon type and then people would probably be satisfied. Casey Finnigan fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 02:42
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Maybe game mechanic is good, maybe game mechanic is bad. Who can say??
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Mar 26, 2020 02:46
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Casey Finnigan posted:You can be a dusty old gaming fart even if you're 18 years old. It's an attitude. what the gently caress is even your point? what does this have to do with the fact that calling criticisms of botw's durability system a product of 'impatience' is completely ludicrous? you haven't addressed what i said at all, you've just hurled insults. it's like i'm back on the fuckin next gen gaming board on gamefaqs circa 2003.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:48
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Strong sharp sword goes into battle, gets mashed against massive army of many undead, doesn't look good and changes - SHATTERS. Many such cases!
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Mar 26, 2020 02:49
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:what the gently caress is even your point? what does this have to do with the fact that calling criticisms of botw's durability system a product of 'impatience' is completely ludicrous? What you said is that I'm insane because I twisted myself into a pretzel to defend a shitterrible system. Do you think I'm this guy?
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Mar 26, 2020 02:51
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Anime.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:52
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The best weapon durability system is pistol start in Doom.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:55
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The Chad Jihad posted:Strong sharp sword goes into battle, gets mashed against massive army of many undead, doesn't look good and changes - SHATTERS. Many such cases! lmao
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Mar 26, 2020 03:03
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Terrible Opinions posted:The best weapon durability system is pistol start in Doom. The best weapon durability system is the friends we made along the way. EDIT: jk, it's FFL2... Which is BASICALLY the same as BotW, so really BotW is the best. i am tim! fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 03:07
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'The Super Shotgun and Guardian Spear are actually the same item' In this essay, I will-
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Mar 26, 2020 03:08
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You joke but the discourse over DOOM Eternal’s ammo management is gonna replace BotW’s durability discourse in a hot minute here.
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Mar 26, 2020 03:22
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I've always wanted a game where everything has durability. Not just weapons and armor but everything. Your bones, npc limbs, trees, bridges, food, the ground, etc. You can see that old man only has a week before his knee finally gives out. Walk across a bridge enough and you can break it.
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Mar 26, 2020 03:35
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RareAcumen posted:I've always wanted a game where everything has durability. Not just weapons and armor but everything. Your bones, npc limbs, trees, bridges, food, the ground, etc. You can see that old man only has a week before his knee finally gives out. Walk across a bridge enough and you can break it. my dude have you heard of this game called dwarf fortress e: or UnReal World, UnReal World probably has all that too
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Mar 26, 2020 03:37
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Weapon durability is good because botw is so big that playing the entire game with lvl 1, 2, and finally 3 sword would’ve been boring as hell Also your weapon stock is an issue for literally only the first 30 minutes of the game, afterwards you’re swimming in weapons and tools to get more weapons
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Mar 26, 2020 03:48
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:meanwhile in botw the fuckin master goddamn sword 'runs out of power' after a short time using it and there's never any justification for this. it keeps you from just equipping the master sword for the rest of the game and ignoring everything else the narrative point of the game is that you went up against the big bad and got wrecked, so your second chance 100 years later is an uphill battle. every weapon and shield is a temporary means to an end leading up to getting the sword of evil's bane, and even then, this is the weapon you had when you lost. breath of the wild is about being powerless and overcoming it. does it suck when your awesome 3-shot bow breaks in your hands? yeah. is the game better for it? hell yes it is. if you could have that bow and bomb arrows or the master sword forever without consequence, you might as well just be master chief with a rocket launcher and an energy sword.
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Mar 26, 2020 04:59
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Alaois posted:my dude have you heard of this game called dwarf fortress Too complicated for feeble brain to comprehend. I like a nice simple game with a depiction of a man with a fist ramming it into another man/zombie/lion/or robot's face. Takoluka posted:it keeps you from just equipping the master sword for the rest of the game and ignoring everything else Calaveron posted:Weapon durability is good because botw is so big that playing the entire game with lvl 1, 2, and finally 3 sword would’ve been boring as hell Well that just cinches it. Either you liked the pre-BotW games and the way BotW did things too or you just liked the old ones for not making entropy a constant thought on your mind. Gimme a Wind Waker 2 anyday. No, Skyward Sword is not a Wind Waker 2.
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Mar 26, 2020 05:05
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wind waker 2 is breath of the wild
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Mar 26, 2020 05:06
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Takoluka posted:it keeps you from just equipping the master sword for the rest of the game and ignoring everything else Or, you know, one of the old Zelda games. 
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Mar 26, 2020 05:09
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Late but Tuca and Bertie getting one season while worse animated shows get more is one of Netflix's worst things.
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Mar 26, 2020 05:15
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in the first Zelda game your main sword even fully upgraded was a dinky little thing that was incredibly risky and cumbersome to use on enemies so getting through combat encounters involved managing finite resources like bombs and arrows. breath of the wild aims to be a reimagining of zelda 1 so it makes its combat be about managing finite resources.
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Mar 26, 2020 05:20
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I think BotW’s combat is too simple and its array of weapons not diverse enough to justify the durability system. It doesn’t bother me much, but I never engaged with it beyond assigning stuff in my inventory a value and only using them against enemies that seemed to require higher value weapons. The shallow pool of enemies, weapon types, and combat abilities don’t really have me weighing the benefits of a spear vs. a sword against a moblin or whatever. So yeah, I get the explanation of forcing a player to try more than one weapon, but the game didn’t offer me enough options in combat to bother exploring. This is just literal weapon combat, not the more entertaining combat of fighting with a Rube Goldberg death machine made of physics.
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Mar 26, 2020 05:24
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Anime. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K21NT-t0r3w&hd=1
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Mar 26, 2020 05:34
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A 40 Year Old posted:Now listen here 30 year olds, you're old and the 20 year olds like this thing, the two I know even said so. I am a hip and cool how do you doodoo fellow kids.
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Mar 26, 2020 05:37
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Augus posted:in the first Zelda game your main sword even fully upgraded was a dinky little thing that was incredibly risky and cumbersome to use on enemies so getting through combat encounters involved managing finite resources like bombs and arrows. Arrows and bombs are fungible, weapon degradation isn't. Anyway, Link to the Past had really nice indestructible weapons and items and it was also really good.
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Mar 26, 2020 05:42
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the weapon durability makes you feel bad. and kids love to feel bad, especially when playing video games.
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Mar 26, 2020 05:44
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If you had an SNES growing up you are literally an ancient lich covered in cobwebs, sorry you had to find out this way
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Mar 26, 2020 05:44
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Augus posted:wind waker 2 is breath of the wild Yeah, WW is literally the game Aonuma used as an example of how previous Zeldas were stepping stones towards what they were trying in BotW. It has its issues of course, but that makes the frequent discussions that treat BotW as a total break that needs to be undone weird to me since the devs clearly don't view it that way.
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Mar 26, 2020 05:53
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Getting some cool weapon as a reward from a chest or some poo poo is really lame when you know that cool weapon is going to break after like 3 dudes. I'm pretty neutral on BotW; I don't love it but also don't hate it. I'm not someone who's really mad at the weapon durability system, but I don't care for it. Just seems kind of tedious and it's hard to really care or have fun with the weapons as a result. Like, all of the cool stuff I remember doing in BotW revolves entirely around your infinite-use tools. Bashing dudes with big hunks of metal, rocketing boulders at them using the timestop stuff, etc. That's the fun poo poo, and coincidentally it's also all stuff that involves zero resource management.
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Mar 26, 2020 05:55
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I'm interested to see what a Red Dead Redemption 2 inspiration is on BotW2 though. Considering the praise tends to be on the narrative side it's not stuff you'd expect in a Zelda game.
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Mar 26, 2020 06:04
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I think people that have massive issues with BOTW's weapon durability system were trying to play the game with the Best poo poo equipped 100% of the time and it kinda defeats the point of the game. The ammo comparison is not as unfounded as some of you would have people believe either because at the end of the day a ton of weapons have the same moveset -- there's no effective reason to use the Master Sword on a Bokoblin instead of some other throwaway sword, experimentation in BOTW comes from the infinite resources you have anyway. I also disagree that it serves no purpose in the game. Not having permanent attack upgrades means the game can never be steamrolled, and that's a pretty good thing if you're planning a non-linear approach to your quests. Of course some regions have better weapons than others, but you can still go any way you want without it being a gimme that you're gonna have an easy time.
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Mar 26, 2020 06:15
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