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Kingcobweb’s Andy vote feels bandwagony to me Andy’s posts read pretty genuine to me, and this feels like a vote that will slip under the radar.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:32
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Sandwolf posted:The latter point I take no issue with! And as for that second question: I don't like how you've been pursuing me, of course, because you've been pursuing me. But if I say "no", I'm condoning your case, if I say "yes" it's OMGUS, and if I say "I'm not sure" then I'm being wishy-washy again and as that's exactly what I'm being cased on in the first place, I've just validated it by repeating the behavior. This feels like a rhetorical trap and I refuse to answer.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:38
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CapnAndy posted:And as for that second question: I don't like how you've been pursuing me, of course, because you've been pursuing me. But if I say "no", I'm condoning your case, if I say "yes" it's OMGUS, and if I say "I'm not sure" then I'm being wishy-washy again and as that's exactly what I'm being cased on in the first place, I've just validated it by repeating the behavior. This feels like a rhetorical trap and I refuse to answer. Notice how scum Cap does not actually provide any reads, instead presenting an arguement where any read given makes them look like scum. This is the mindset of scum, as they are intrinsically more worried about coming across as scummy.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:41
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CapnAndy posted:I think "you're not gonna have much to go on D1" is a universally true statement, is the thing. I've been in games that hit scum on D1 too, but it's rare and usually happened by purely random chance. I do not have much faith in D1, I think all the cases today will be bad, and I have not wavered in what I want to do, which is to just let the day play out and then lynch a lurker. okay let's all sit in meditative silence, we'll off the lowest postcount today, let scum kill someone overnight, and tomorrow we can actually play the game
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Apr 16, 2020 00:43
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Epsilon Plus posted:okay let's all sit in meditative silence, we'll off the lowest postcount today, let scum kill someone overnight, and tomorrow we can actually play the game
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Apr 16, 2020 00:48
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So what are you people doing? awhawhaw
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Apr 16, 2020 00:49
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I really wasn’t trying to lure you into a trap, I was just trying to get some reads out of you, but you really answered that as if you’re scum explaining your conundrum.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:50
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Sandwolf posted:I really wasn’t trying to lure you into a trap, I was just trying to get some reads out of you, but you really answered that as if you’re scum explaining your conundrum.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:51
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CapnAndy posted:What was the answer that would have convinced you, then? Because I maintain there wasn't one. Giving reads of people that are voting on you. Who do you think is doing so honestly and who do you think is manufacturing that opinion?
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Apr 16, 2020 00:53
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CapnAndy posted:What was the answer that would have convinced you, then? Because I maintain there wasn't one. Yeah like do you think my pursuit of you is legitimate? Zzyzx said he thought I was propping up a case, do you agree with that? Do you disagree with that? What about the other votes on you?
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Apr 16, 2020 00:55
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##vote Kashuno You got soul read. Sorry.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:56
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CapnAndy posted:is your actual contention that I have been neither posting nor attempting to play the game no, but, CapnAndy posted:I do not have much faith in D1, I think all the cases today will be bad, and I have not wavered in what I want to do, which is to just let the day play out and then lynch a lurker. why post if all our cases will be bad?
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Apr 16, 2020 01:01
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I work out for an hour and there’s 100 new posts okay. Am I correct in reading that the bulk of the Andy case is effortposting and discussion of a gambit from a decade ago?
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Apr 16, 2020 01:05
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The specific part I don't understand isquote:if this'll happen again on Day 4 or something, I don't want you to have that opportunity
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Apr 16, 2020 01:08
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I don't think the Captain Andrew's Gambitte Discussion is actually part of any case, I think we just got off-topic for a bit
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Apr 16, 2020 01:09
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Quandary posted:It's been like a decade, how the hell is this still all the exact same people playing mafia? Just spectating, but hell yeah that this is still going strong!
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Apr 16, 2020 01:17
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merk posted:##vote Kashuno
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Apr 16, 2020 01:17
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Amnistar posted:Giving reads of people that are voting on you. Who do you think is doing so honestly and who do you think is manufacturing that opinion? kingcobweb made an egregiously bad drive-by vote. You're being obdurate; you originally voted me for "being self-aware", and after I made a lengthy post explaining that yes, it was self-aware, because I've lost my temper and become a disruptive presence in previous mafia games and I don't want to do that any more and am carefully monitoring myself against it, you haven't even acknowledged that, let alone gotten off my case. You saw one thing you didn't like and now everything else I say is proof, no matter what. Your mind is made up. Case in point: Amnistar posted:Notice how scum Cap does not actually provide any reads, instead presenting an arguement where any read given makes them look like scum. Sandwolf's case against me is entirely wrong, but at least he's made one, and scum don't have a monopoly on being wrong. That said, the more time passes, the more I dislike his "is my case on you scummy" question. It is some "have you stopped beating your wife yet"-level bullshit. I'd like to point out that what you asked is not at all what he did. "Is my case on you scummy" and "give your reads on the people voting you" aren't the same question. I'd like to further point out that he has not yet answered my question of "what response to that would you have accepted as townie" -- he just waited for you to defend him and then went "yeah that". It's deflection. I maintain that the question had no acceptable answer by design. I think he laid a very, very good trap for me and is upset that I looked at it, said "that's a trap", and handed it back. Y'know what? I've convinced myself. ##vote Sandwolf
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Apr 16, 2020 01:19
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kingcobweb posted:The specific part I don't understand is Epsilon Plus posted:no, but, Deadbeat Dad posted:You can easily catch scum D1 but on the whole it's a lot of posturing and confusion until people start to flip and you can see who is earnestly defending another person or potentially bussing or trying to look good. In the moment D1 is usually just chaos and uncertainty, but I'm sure some of us have our methods for weeding a lot of that out and not just writing off D1 as only a crapshoot. Maybe the wording of "only good" is a bit strong from Andy but if we're comparing it to later days where we have more information to work off of, obviously I agree. Jen X posted:You can do more than just collect posts on D1. Spoonsy posted:I work out for an hour and there’s 100 new posts okay.
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Apr 16, 2020 01:29
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Pussy Quipped posted:Kingcobweb’s Andy vote feels bandwagony to me I'm re-reading the thread now ok I'm rusty at this game!!
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Apr 16, 2020 01:40
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CapnAndy posted:I actually agree with both of these posts, even though they're disagreeing! D1 is a fundamentally weaker day than any other, because we have no information, but playing the game and gaining early interaction is valuable and worthwhile. Any other questions? Didn't someone do some analysis a long time ago that showed over-50% scum lynch rate on day one?
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Apr 16, 2020 01:41
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kingcobweb posted:Didn't someone do some analysis a long time ago that showed over-50% scum lynch rate on day one?
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Apr 16, 2020 01:45
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CapnAndy posted:
Yes, as I clarified later, it was the feeling that you *know* a player is town aligned when making comments about them. Your response does not really change that for me, because I don't know why you would make the post you did if you didn't have any alignment calls to make. Why say "The original case is bad, but this activity now is also bad" and not follow it up with a case? Why, if you think that Liger is town are you posting about *their* behavior instead of calling out people casing them as scum and looking for people that are behaving dishonestly? I did indeed see one thing and am pursuing it doggedly, because what has happened since is you not participating in finding scum, and dodging the question of who you think is scum. quote:Yes, why would I be worried about coming across as scummy with people who think I'm coming across as scummy, especially when I'm trying to change their minds? This is some nonsense, man. I'm asked to defend myself and then accused of defensiveness. Being worried about getting voted out is a scum problem, not a town one. Town are being honest, scum are lying. Scum need to worry about if what they say is going to come across as scum, because that is how they will get caught. Town shouldn't be worried about that, because what they're saying is what they actually believe.
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Apr 16, 2020 01:48
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Pussy Quipped posted:Kingcobweb’s Andy vote feels bandwagony to me I like this post, I like PQ right now. Agree with this read on Kingcobweb.
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Apr 16, 2020 01:51
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I still maintain (and have been lynched for this idea) that the D1 lynch, unless someone does something idiotic or there is a clear attempt at a railroad by scum that doesn’t know what it’s doing, is a crapshoot. And yes I am always sad that the shitpost phase ends, especially when there wasn’t nearly enough Potter puns or wordplay. (Also yeah yeah I know I’ve been 0 productive it’s D1)
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Apr 16, 2020 01:55
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echo is not a good overwatch character also mei is now the best sniper class its day one with over twenty five players, im not really going to sweat any day one lynch. andy CapnAndy posted:It means that if Liger is going to respond to cases against him by getting really dismissive and leaving the thread, that is not behavior that can be tolerated on later days, when the stakes are higher. I'm sorry if my arbitrary use of "Day 4" to indicate "later on" made things confusing.
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Apr 16, 2020 02:03
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Amnistar posted:Yes, as I clarified later, it was the feeling that you *know* a player is town aligned when making comments about them. quote:Why say "The original case is bad, but this activity now is also bad" and not follow it up with a case? quote:Why, if you think that Liger is town are you posting about *their* behavior instead of calling out people casing them as scum and looking for people that are behaving dishonestly? quote:Being worried about getting voted out is a scum problem, not a town one. quote:Town are being honest, scum are lying. quote:Scum need to worry about if what they say is going to come across as scum, because that is how they will get caught. Town shouldn't be worried about that, because what they're saying is what they actually believe. Furthermore, you act as though I was always worried about how I'd come off, which is not the case. I made my initial post on Liger's behavior quite blithely. I refused to answer Sandwolf's question on the grounds that I was worried about sounding scummy because, and yet again, this is something I've said before, I had at that point already been accused of sounding scummy. It was and is not a hypothetical and me being aware of it ought to be entirely understandable. This was really bad arguing all around. You seem to have made the following claims: that town can never be wrong, that town should not defend themselves from being lynched, that posts can never be misread, and that suspicion is its own proof. Are these claims you actually intended to make? If not, can you perhaps not back up and see why I am asserting that you have tunnel vision on me and are obdurately pressing forward regardless of the actual facts?
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Apr 16, 2020 02:08
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Epsilon Plus posted:okay let's all sit in meditative silence, we'll off the lowest postcount today, let scum kill someone overnight, and tomorrow we can actually play the game this flippant response gives me a tummy ache. i am going to click on your profile.
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Apr 16, 2020 02:10
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i want to say first of all the way segmented quotes work on sa is stupid and wish that we had nesting quote trees when quoting posts with quotes in themCapnAndy posted:Excuse me, you're putting words in my mouth that were never there. I've never said I "*know*" Liger is town. That was dishonest of you. As I've said repeatedly, I think it is far more likely that a townie would be emotionally hurt by being cased than scum, because the case against them is wrong. That sort of thing can be hurtful. It has hurt me. I can empathise with it happening to someone else. i just wanna say i appreciate how in the first paragraph you got annoyed at someone putting words in your mouth and in the last paragraph you go ahead and put words in their mouth i've missed mafia
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Apr 16, 2020 02:16
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So Andy you’re really voting me because I asked you to finally respond to not just the case on you but some of the casing being done on you? You could have given many answers I would have been fine with, the hyper-aware, “let me explain how any way I answer this will make me scummy,” is what I didn’t like. You seem overly concerned with being thought of as scummy and not very interested in catching scum. For example, it really feels like you’re trying to cast shade on Amni, but you vote me?
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Apr 16, 2020 02:17
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CapnAndy posted:Excuse me, you're putting words in my mouth that were never there. I've never said I "*know*" Liger is town. That was dishonest of you. As I've said repeatedly, I think it is far more likely that a townie would be emotionally hurt by being cased than scum, because the case against them is wrong. That sort of thing can be hurtful. It has hurt me. I can empathise with it happening to someone else. I am saying that I read your post as knowing Liger's alignment. Not that you said you knew it. They way you talk about Liger makes it clear you know Liger is town. quote:Because I was not making a case. I was condemning what I felt was unhelpful behavior. This is why my post included a plea for him to change that behavior. That's the problem. quote:This is self-evident nonsense. If I am town and get voted out, the town is, by definition, weaker and closer to losing the game. I may also have beneficial powers whose loss would further hurt the town. (This is not a claim. This is logic.) If I am town, I am acting in the town's best interest by defending myself. I'm not sure how you took that to mean that town will never get cuddled because of someone else perceiving what they said as scummy. Town *shouldn't* be worried about the tone of their post in the same way that scum are. Being self-conscious that what you're saying is going to come across as scummy and get yourself cuddled is an inherently scum thought process.
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Apr 16, 2020 02:18
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CapnAndy posted:I 100% did not. There's a history tab right there on the wiki, you're free to check. I did!!  is "lynch all liars" still the meta
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Apr 16, 2020 02:18
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CapnAndy posted:Sandwolf's case against me is entirely wrong, but at least he's made one, and scum don't have a monopoly on being wrong. That said, the more time passes, the more I dislike his "is my case on you scummy" question. It is some "have you stopped beating your wife yet"-level bullshit. I'd like to point out that what you asked is not at all what he did. "Is my case on you scummy" and "give your reads on the people voting you" aren't the same question. I'd like to further point out that he has not yet answered my question of "what response to that would you have accepted as townie" -- he just waited for you to defend him and then went "yeah that". It's deflection. I maintain that the question had no acceptable answer by design. I think he laid a very, very good trap for me and is upset that I looked at it, said "that's a trap", and handed it back. This post reads really town, the thought process of going through the case of someone that thinks he's scum and getting mad at it so he votes for the guy seems genuine.
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Apr 16, 2020 02:24
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##unvote
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Apr 16, 2020 02:24
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kingcobweb posted:is "lynch all liars" still the meta death to meta, lunch all liars OFFICER LIGER posted:this flippant response gives me a tummy ache. i am going to click on your profile. click on ur mom lol G*TTEM BITCH
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Apr 16, 2020 02:24
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What's the trap sandwolf tried to lay for you andy?
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Apr 16, 2020 02:25
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kingcobweb posted:What's the trap sandwolf tried to lay for you andy? a sand trap
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Apr 16, 2020 02:29
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OFFICER LIGER posted:a sand trap golf clap
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Apr 16, 2020 02:31
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Is Ecco really in this game? Awhawhaw
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Apr 16, 2020 02:43
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Yeah, merk's right about this guy... I was reading a bunch of random people earlier trying to see what my gut was telling me and he was on the short list. ##vote Kashuno
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Apr 16, 2020 02:47
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