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Sarx posted:As a horror franchise I can't even compute Predator beating TCM. I really have a lot of love for Predator, I grew up with those movies and didn't see TCM until college. Still, I voted for TCM for basically the reasons you mentioned. You can argue that they're about equal in terms of just which franchise has the most good movies, but TCM is such an icon of the horror genre whereas Predator for me has always been more about sci-fi/action. If it were Alien in this matchup instead of Predator I'd probably be voting the other way.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:04
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The new Texas Chainsaw Massacre 4K is only available in UHD via a rental in the US, right? Has anyone with average internet actually found the image quality of a UHD rental on Amazon to be worthwhile? I'm assuming that standard bandwidth issues would keep me from getting an ideal experience. Is a physical release coming for it sometime? Heard someone marveling about the new transfer and it feels like the ideal opportunity to fill in that particular gap in my watch history.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:08
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I think I have to squint less to see Alien as horror. To me the first one has always been a clear haunted house film just in a spaceship and the xenomorphs are just genuinely one of the monsters I was more scared of as a kid. I just mentioned it in my AVP review but I still have vivid memories of being scared out of my wits by the Alien ride portion in Universal Studios and having a xenomorph "breath" on my neck that chilled me to the bone. But I do recognize that Predator is basically a slasher and to that end while I don't find the predators scary the way I do xenomorphs it might just come down to my tastes vis a vis slashers. I'm leaning towards TCM for the same reasons everyone else is. But every non-Hooper sequel I watch makes me just want to vote for something else more. I'm just not sure Predator is gonna be it.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:11
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STAC Goat posted:I'm leaning towards TCM for the same reasons everyone else is. But every non-Hooper sequel I watch makes me just want to vote for something else more. I'm just not sure Predator is gonna be it. TCM is definitely going down next round so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:13
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Somewhat unrelated, but is there an existing link to the original bracket? I like going back and seeing the path seeds took to the point.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:16
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STAC Goat posted:I think I have to squint less to see Alien as horror. To me the first one has always been a clear haunted house film just in a spaceship and the xenomorphs are just genuinely one of the monsters I was more scared of as a kid. I just mentioned it in my AVP review but I still have vivid memories of being scared out of my wits by the Alien ride portion in Universal Studios and having a xenomorph "breath" on my neck that chilled me to the bone. Only the first Predator counts as a horror film as much as its anything. Everything after is action first and foremost. ALIEN tries to be horror through out to varying degrees of success. The first Predator is a perfect film, and I will die on that hill, but it's going up against two perfect films. That's what tips it to TCM. Other notable franchises though, TCM's back half is going to weigh it down considerably.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:25
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feedmyleg posted:The new Texas Chainsaw Massacre 4K is only available in UHD via a rental in the US, right? Has anyone with average internet actually found the image quality of a UHD rental on Amazon to be worthwhile? I'm assuming that standard bandwidth issues would keep me from getting an ideal experience. Is a physical release coming for it sometime? Heard someone marveling about the new transfer and it feels like the ideal opportunity to fill in that particular gap in my watch history. Shudder has the restoration still. That's how I first watched it. You can also watch the 4k restoration in 1080 for free on Amazon as long as you click the IMDB link, it'll just have three or so ad breaks.  It hasn't had an actual UHD physical release (edit: in USA; Germany and Italy seem to have one), that I know of, but the 40th anniversary blu ray is from the 4k scan. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 19:27
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STAC Goat posted:Somewhat unrelated, but is there an existing link to the original bracket? I like going back and seeing the path seeds took to the point. check da update z0ne (second post in thread)
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Apr 21, 2020 19:45
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Burkion posted:Other notable franchises though, TCM's back half is going to weigh it down considerably. Yeah, I think I'm the only person who doesn't hate a lot of those sequels. And I actually like the two in the R. Lee Ermey timeline to a certain degree. Before seeing a lot of y'alls opinions of the franchise, I considered TCM one of the possible winners of this whole thing. It might have even been my pick to win.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:53
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I don't even know that I "hate" them. They're probably better films than like the Tremors or Wishmaster or Crow sequels I'm watching. They're just all so completely uninspired nihilistic ordeals. I had an idea of what TCM was for a very long time and was shocked to realize when I ACTUALLY watched it that it wasn't that at all and was actually a really good film. And I think there's probably no better example of Tobe Hooper's unique artistry then how he made 2 good films in the same franchise that are just completely different movies. But everything after that is everything bad I associate with TCM or "torture porn" or whatever. I actually kind of like the bad McConaughey/Zellwegger one 3rd most. Its objectively worse than the Ermey remakes but its so drat weird that at least it was doing something other than "torture and slaughter some pretty people".
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Apr 21, 2020 19:59
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Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the original, is easily one of the single best films in the entire bracket. And also ever made.
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Apr 21, 2020 20:24
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TrixRabbi posted:Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the original, is easily one of the single best films in the entire bracket. And also ever made. Hard disagree. It's very good but in no universe does it touch the top ten even for movies in this contest. Hell, I can point to one or two other franchises with at least 2 movies better than TCM. It was good for its time but time has not been kind to it, unlike other older movies like Frankenstein or Alien.
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Apr 21, 2020 20:32
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It's so difficult to even fathom that take that it's hard to dispute it. And mind you, I'm not knocking films like Jaws, Frankenstein, The Exorcist, Halloween, Alien. But TCM is as great an achievement and stands the test of time just as well. A filthy, brilliant movie.
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Apr 21, 2020 20:39
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TrixRabbi posted:It's so difficult to even fathom that take that it's hard to dispute it. I think a lot of what makes people consider films to be unimpeachable classics is not when they came out but rather when they were exposed to them. Which is not to say "I saw a movie when I was too young for it and now I'm scared of clowns forever" but rather when in the continuum of your film lifetime. Lots of films build on the things that came before. Bullett has a final car stunt that is absolutely pedestrian by today's standards but today's standards wouldn't exist without it raising the bar. How many action movies use rotocam that, had you seen them first, Matrix would seem pedestrian (or at least not nearly as holy-poo poo as they should be)? Texas Chainsaw Massacre is good, I gave it that. But I saw it after having seen just so, so many other Cannibal Redneck Murderer movies that it didn't click with me. Maybe that's a different path across the stones for everyone that makes the very idea of an objective winner a fool's errand but that's how I'm able to elucidate my feelings. Me: TCM is Very Good. Thread: 
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Apr 21, 2020 20:48
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Shrecknet posted:Hard disagree. It's very good but in no universe does it touch the top ten even for movies in this contest. Hell, I can point to one or two other franchises with at least 2 movies better than TCM. It was good for its time but time has not been kind to it, unlike other older movies like Frankenstein or Alien. Would have agreed with you about 10 years ago, but that 40th Anniversary 4k remaster made me re-evaluate it, and it's easily one of the greatest American independent films made, let alone horror. Even when I held that opinion, I knew I was an outlier. That it came out 4 years before Halloween and therefore almost It's literally a genre-defining film. Like Psycho, Rosemary's Baby and The Exorcist before it, and Carrie, Halloween, and The Shining after it. *(I've heard the "Slasher Boom" posited as starting in '84/'85 after A Nightmare on Elm Street) Shrecknet posted:Texas Chainsaw Massacre is good, I gave it that. But I saw it after having seen just so, so many other Cannibal Redneck Murderer movies that it didn't click with me. For context, what movies are these? Cuz the Cannibal Redneck slasher, from what I know, was an 80's thing and was created because of TCM. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 20:55
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TCM is definitely good and genre defining and worth more than the legions of sequels and knock offs that folk like me incorrectly assume it is, and I'd maybe agree a top 10 movie in this bracket. I wouldn't call it a top 10 movie all time or one of my top 10 horrors but everyone has their tastes. edit: On the other hand I just finished Texas Chainsaw 3D and now I hate everyone and everything. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 21:18
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Shrecknet posted:Texas Chainsaw Massacre is good, I gave it that. But I saw it after having seen just so, so many other Cannibal Redneck Murderer movies that it didn't click with me.
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Apr 21, 2020 23:57
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Shrecknet posted:I think a lot of what makes people consider films to be unimpeachable classics is not when they came out but rather when they were exposed to them. Which is not to say "I saw a movie when I was too young for it and now I'm scared of clowns forever" but rather when in the continuum of your film lifetime. Lots of films build on the things that came before. Bullett has a final car stunt that is absolutely pedestrian by today's standards but today's standards wouldn't exist without it raising the bar. How many action movies use rotocam that, had you seen them first, Matrix would seem pedestrian (or at least not nearly as holy-poo poo as they should be)? My Letterboxd review of Texas Chainsaw Massacre is "This movie is better than Citizen Kane". I stand by it.
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Apr 22, 2020 00:12
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Franchescanado posted:For context, what movies are these? Cuz the Cannibal Redneck slasher, from what I know, was an 80's thing and was created because of TCM. I don't think he means he watched them in chronological order, Frank.
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Apr 22, 2020 01:02
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Jedit posted:I don't think he means he watched them in chronological order, Frank. Fair. I just can’t think of a redneck cannibal horror movie that could be better than TCM.
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Apr 22, 2020 01:16
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Not better, just made after, and incorporating everything that TCM pioneered and invented. We don't call The Great Train Robbery (1903) the best thriller ever just because it invented editing; TCM is very good but I've seen so many low budget redneck slashers that when I finally saw the granddaddy of them all I was merely like, "oh, I see why other movies do it that way now" TCM is clearly still the best Cannibal Redneck slasher of all time, but I don't think just being first scores it any bonus points that elevate it to "top ten movies in the whole contest" level
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Apr 22, 2020 05:27
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Shrecknet posted:Not better, just made after, and incorporating everything that TCM pioneered and invented. I mean, everyone is welcome to their opinion, but I just checked and these are the ten best movies in the bracket... so.... Psycho Frankenstein Night of the Living Dead Alien The Exorcist Halloween The Texas Chainsaw Massacre Jaws The Silence of the Lambs Evil Dead 2
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Apr 22, 2020 05:51
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Sarx posted:I mean, everyone is welcome to their opinion, but I just checked and these are the ten best movies in the bracket... so.... Close.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:01
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TheBizzness posted:Close. This is fair. I kind of think depending on who you are you either put Alien or Aliens and either Evil Dead or Evil Dead 2.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:52
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Sarx posted:This is fair. I kind of think depending on who you are you either put Alien or Aliens and either Evil Dead or Evil Dead 2. Aliens is one of the best action movies ever, but it's not one of the best horror films ever. I actually own Evil Dead 2 but haven't watched it. I should probably take it off my Shelf of Shame. However, the reason I never got round to it is because I'm told it's basically the first movie but played for laughs. Is that accurate?
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Apr 22, 2020 12:10
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Jedit posted:I actually own Evil Dead 2 but haven't watched it. I should probably take it off my Shelf of Shame. However, the reason I never got round to it is because I'm told it's basically the first movie but played for laughs. Is that accurate? Eh, yes and no. It's just barebones similar, in that Ash and others are trapped in the cabin with the deadites. You know how weird and creative Evil Dead's final act is? Evil Dead 2 starts at that energy and gets weirder from there. It's just bigger and more ambitious in every way, since Raimi and co. are now actual filmmakers instead of college dropouts. Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 and Gremlins 2 are good examples of Evil Dead 2's wavelength. It's "basically the first movie, but played for laughs", but the results are much more entertaining than that describes. Or how Terminator 2 is basically the first movie, but better. And I know people that still think Evil Dead 2 is scary.
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Apr 22, 2020 12:45
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Is there any Michael Myers sequels worth a reconsideration btw? I see Halloween is up against TCM or Predator next round and eeeeeehhhh. Will the winner of this potentially put Myers out to pasture?
The Hausu Usher fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 12:50
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BisonDollah posted:Is there any Michael Myers movies worth a reconsideration btw? I see Halloween is up against TCM or Predator next round and eeeeeehhhh. Will the winner of this potentially put Myers out to pasture? I rewatched them all in October/November, and I'd say: Halloween Halloween 2 Halloween 3 Halloween 4 Rob Zombie's Halloween 2 Halloween 2018 Are all good to great. I'd still rather watch Halloween 5, 6, Resurrection and especially H20 before anything after Predator 2 or TCM 3.
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Apr 22, 2020 12:55
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BisonDollah posted:Is there any Michael Myers movies worth a reconsideration btw? I see Halloween is up against TCM or Predator next round and eeeeeehhhh. Will the winner of this potentially put Myers out to pasture? Depends which ones you weren't considering in the first place. Halloween 4 deserves consideration because the makers said "we want to make a movie where the characters don't do the stupid thing like wander off alone to investigate the noise in the attic, and they die anyway", so they get points for keying in on the metastory eight years before Scream. And I'd honestly give Resurrection a small nod for pointing out that there's no reason why someone couldn't physically fight Michael - he's not supernatural, just immensely dangerous. (That and the scene where Michael gets mistaken for an actor playing Michael.) The rest you can keep apart from H20 and H40 though.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:04
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Jedit posted:Depends which ones you weren't considering in the first place. Halloween 4 deserves consideration because the makers said "we want to make a movie where the characters don't do the stupid thing like wander off alone to investigate the noise in the attic, and they die anyway", so they get points for keying in on the metastory eight years before Scream. And I'd honestly give Resurrection a small nod for pointing out that there's no reason why someone couldn't physically fight Michael - he's not supernatural, just immensely dangerous. (That and the scene where Michael gets mistaken for an actor playing Michael.) The rest you can keep apart from H20 and H40 though. Agreed on both points. Also Halloween 4 has Danielle Harris, who is a great child actor in the film. Halloween 5 is rife with issues, one of which is they made Danielle Harris silent, and rewrote the script because they liked the main character's foil more than the main character, and so killed off the main character. That and it's just tonally kinda flat and boring. edit: and Resurrection was weirdly prescient on reality TV and internet culture.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:21
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I used to be lukewarm on TCM but when I rewatched it again after Hooper died my opinion of it improved greatlyJedit posted:I actually own Evil Dead 2 but haven't watched it. I should probably take it off my Shelf of Shame. However, the reason I never got round to it is because I'm told it's basically the first movie but played for laughs. Is that accurate?  I wouldn't say it's played for laughs exactly, although it is often really funny. A lot of the humor comes from how things keep escalating in ridiculous ways, and there's a lot of physical comedy with Ash getting the poo poo kicked out of him, but there aren't many "jokes" like a straight comedy would have. I think a lot of horror/comedies are really just comedies with some horror elements - Evil Dead 2 is still a horror movie at its core.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:56
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I can't be the only one who is incredibly jealous of Jedit still being able to watch Evil Dead 2 for the very first time in 2020. edit: Also it strikes me how Evil Dead is the only franchise here that consists entirely of very good movies. married but discreet fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 14:41
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I half remember most of the Myers films as biege repetitions of the first movie (outside of 2 which is a decent continuation) but will try and find 4 and H20. I remember HATING Busta Rhymes doing spin kicks on MM, so will stay away from Resurrection I think. I loved Halloween 2018. The Zombie remakes were fine.
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Apr 22, 2020 14:54
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BisonDollah posted:I half remember most of the Myers films as biege repetitions of the first movie (outside of 2 which is a decent continuation) but will try and find 4 and H20. I remember HATING Busta Rhymes doing spin kicks on MM, so will stay away from Resurrection I think. Shudder has Halloween 4, and H20 is on Vudu and Hoopla for free.
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Apr 22, 2020 15:13
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married but discreet posted:I can't be the only one who is incredibly jealous of Jedit still being able to watch Evil Dead 2 for the very first time in 2020. I never saw the remake, how is it?
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Apr 22, 2020 15:48
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TrixRabbi posted:I never saw the remake, how is it? Very good.
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Apr 22, 2020 15:49
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TrixRabbi posted:I never saw the remake, how is it? Shockingly good. One of the better horror remakes there is.
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Apr 22, 2020 15:53
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The Evil Dead remake is good. Completely different from the other stuff. Played straight (although with a really gruesome dark humor) and gory and violent as hell. I think if it had been released under another name and no one was making the comparisons it would have been pretty popular, especially amongst our crowd. And technically its in continuity and more of a spinoff/reboot/sequel than a remake.
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Apr 22, 2020 15:56
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STAC Goat posted:The Evil Dead remake is good. Completely different from the other stuff. Played straight (although with a really gruesome dark humor) and gory and violent as hell. I think if it had been released under another name and no one was making the comparisons it would have been pretty popular, especially amongst our crowd. Agreed on all points.
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Apr 22, 2020 16:00
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Finally got my Evil Dead 4K for a first time watch. I got shown Evil Dead 2 in high school as "basically a better remake of the first one" followed immediately by Army of Darkness. It was way before I really fell for horror, so I didn't bother going back and watching. I'm really excited to catch the original soon, I hear the 4K is revelatory compared to earlier home releases.
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Apr 22, 2020 16:13
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