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Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao


Sky Shadowing posted:

They recalled Argonians because of the Oblivion Crisis (but not all Argonians are bound to the Hist fully so some resisted the call and some didn't hear it) and sent them mind-controlled into the Gates when they opened to the points that the Daedra actually closed the gates to keep them out. (Notable that the source for this is an Argonian in the physical novels, and may very well me An-Xileel (semi-fascist Argonian group) propaganda.

After the Red Year they definitely sent them into Morrowind, and earlier lore was "they conquered everything" but Dragonborn pretty clearly retconned it to "it was a war that the Argonians won at first but the Redorans drove them south and it's unclear where the border is."

i think even in skyrim it was clear the argonians kind of took off after sacking everything, the fate of the telvanni is apparently not quite as dire post-Dragonborn though

also worth remembering its been like 200 years since the red year

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Synthwave Crusader
Feb 13, 2011

Sky Shadowing posted:

They recalled Argonians because of the Oblivion Crisis (but not all Argonians are bound to the Hist fully so some resisted the call and some didn't hear it) and sent them mind-controlled into the Gates when they opened to the points that the Daedra actually closed the gates to keep them out. (Notable that the source for this is an Argonian in the physical novels, and may very well me An-Xileel (semi-fascist Argonian group) propaganda.

After the Red Year they definitely sent them into Morrowind, and earlier lore was "they conquered everything" but Dragonborn pretty clearly retconned it to "it was a war that the Argonians won at first but the Redorans drove them south and it's unclear where the border is."

I can totally buy that the Argonians went full on counter-invasion after reading The Argonian Account. They probably thought the Deadlands were a better place to live than Black Marsh itself.

Rainbow Knight
Apr 19, 2006

We die.
We pray.
To live.
We serve

Berke Negri posted:

i think even in skyrim it was clear the argonians kind of took off after sacking everything, the fate of the telvanni is apparently not quite as dire post-Dragonborn though

also worth remembering its been like 200 years since the red year

I can't find it right now, but I'm pretty sure that they're still in Morrowind, they have basically everything to the south of Vvardenfell, and the only reason that they didn't take the island itself is because House Redoran stopped them. And I think there's some thieves guild dialogue indicating there are Argonian patrols on the Skyrim/Morrowind border.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 23, 2011



Would anyone be down to make some recommendations for Morrowind mods? I've played the game before, but just barely. I'm interested in a mostly-unaltered playthrough, but if there's anything that makes the levelling not terrible that I should know about, or just any really necessary mods to make the game playable to someone who's brain has been poisoned by modern low-friction games, I'm interested.

anatomi
Jan 31, 2015

You might want to try your luck in here as well:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3430891&pagenumber=244&perpage=40

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 23, 2011



Oh hell I didn’t realize there was a thread just for installing Morrowind. Thank you!

mbt
Aug 13, 2012

100 degrees Calcium posted:

Would anyone be down to make some recommendations for Morrowind mods? I've played the game before, but just barely. I'm interested in a mostly-unaltered playthrough, but if there's anything that makes the levelling not terrible that I should know about, or just any really necessary mods to make the game playable to someone who's brain has been poisoned by modern low-friction games, I'm interested.

re: leveling

I'm very biased because I made it, but this is more or less what you want
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/47452

just completely forget about minmaxing and leveling up

you'll need the latest version of MGEXE for the lua scripting addon

other low friction mods are graphical herbalism and quickloot (if that's your thing)

I like speed+stamina tweaked to fix the fatigue and speed problem. magicka regeneration for purists is good too

next-gen combat is the "I am from skyrim" mod, you can disable all of the perk stuff and get closer to morrowind. although you won't need that if you use speed+stamina

i'm just rambling at this point so let me explain how fatigue works in morrowind:
it drains as you run (which is walking normally), and affects every single action in the game.
chance of thing happening * fatigue modifier
the fatigue modifier is -25% at 0 fatigue, and +25% at full fatigue. That's right, by being at full fatigue you double your chance of hitting things. You double your chance at picking locks. You double the effect of mercantile when bartering.
speed+stamina heavily removes the constant fatigue drain when moving, which fixes just about everything.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

100 degrees Calcium posted:

Oh hell I didn’t realize there was a thread just for installing Morrowind. Thank you!

There's a separate Morrowind thread because Morrowind fans are insufferable and will talk nonstop about how the rest of the series is terrible except for their beautiful waifu of a video game.

Source: I'm one of them. :(



Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:

i'm just rambling at this point so let me explain how fatigue works in morrowind:
it drains as you run (which is walking normally), and affects every single action in the game.
chance of thing happening * fatigue modifier
the fatigue modifier is -25% at 0 fatigue, and +25% at full fatigue. That's right, by being at full fatigue you double your chance of hitting things. You double your chance at picking locks. You double the effect of mercantile when bartering.
speed+stamina heavily removes the constant fatigue drain when moving, which fixes just about everything.

This is why, when I want to embrace vanilla Morrowind fatigue, I like using Tejón's Fatigue Effects. It makes being at low fatigue worse, but a lot more noticeable. If you're under 50%, you start getting a Blind effect, darkening the screen. If you hit 0, you collapse on the ground.

I can understand not wanting to embrace vanilla fatigue, though.

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747

Vavrek posted:

There's a separate Morrowind thread because Morrowind fans are insufferable and will talk nonstop about how the rest of the series is terrible except for their beautiful waifu of a video game.

Source: I'm one of them. :(

Honestly Morrowind is terrible too. Just, and that's what's important, not in the same way.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?
I listened to an interview with Trainwiz once, and thought he made a really good comparison of Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind. Skyrim and Morrowind both have a lot of flaws, but each is really good at being a certain kind of game. They happen to be different kinds, and people have different preferences. (He happens to prefer the kind of game Morrowind is, but it's not as though he didn't like Skyrim.) Oblivion's relative failing is just that it's stuck in the transition, and doesn't succeed as well at either type of game.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 23, 2011



Wow, thanks for the info, folks! I took a look at the Morrowind modding thread. There’s a lot of good info but it’s honestly pretty overwhelming for me. This gives me a nice focus to start with.

That fatigue thing sounds awful. I will probably use the mod to remove it haha.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

100 degrees Calcium posted:

That fatigue thing sounds awful. I will probably use the mod to remove it haha.

Yes! This is a good idea. It requires thoroughly embracing "You didn't hit the monster in front of you with the six foot long sword in your hands, even though the blade clipped through the enemy model" as a reasonable game mechanic before you get to galaxy-brain ideas like "What if fatigue, but more punishing?"

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Vavrek posted:

Yes! This is a good idea. It requires thoroughly embracing "You didn't hit the monster in front of you with the six foot long sword in your hands, even though the blade clipped through the enemy model" as a reasonable game mechanic before you get to galaxy-brain ideas like "What if fatigue, but more punishing?"

man this explains why I sucked so much at morrowind 99% of the time that I played it, I had no idea fatigue mattered so much

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012

Arivia posted:

man this explains why I sucked so much at morrowind 99% of the time that I played it, I had no idea fatigue mattered so much

This has honestly completely rewritten my understanding of the game. So much makes sense now

i am tim!
Jan 5, 2005

God damn it, where are my ant keys?! I'm gonna miss my flight!
For those of you who are interested in Morrowind but aren’t interested in modding out Fatigue (or are playing the X-Box version for whatever reason), an easy way to deal with it is to craft Restore Fatigue potions. Since food items count as alchemy ingredients, and most foods have Restore Fatigue, you can pretty easily whip up a bunch by going a tavern or inn and buying all the bread, rice and meat (but not rat meat) they have. These potions will have a decent duration even with low skill, so it’s pretty easy to pop one every few fights and keep yourself relatively topped up.

Or just mod it out, there’s honestly no shame in it. Fatigue systems can be good, but it’s not well implemented in Morrowind.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

Arivia posted:

man this explains why I sucked so much at morrowind 99% of the time that I played it, I had no idea fatigue mattered so much

GorfZaplen posted:

This has honestly completely rewritten my understanding of the game. So much makes sense now
This is why I like making it worse, in a way: having your vision start to go dark once you're under 50% Fatigue gives me a really clear sign, without needing to glance down at the green bar, that I'm low on Fatigue and should try to find a way to stop and breathe, or pop a Restore Fatigue potion or spell. The game mechanics support the idea that, at low Fatigue, you're out of breath, and that at near-0 Fatigue you're basically about to pass out (if someone hits you with a punch, for example). A Blind effect nicely represents "You're seeing spots and are about to give yourself brain damage from lack of oxygen." (Blind, as a magic effect, darkens the screen by X% and gives you an X% penalty to hit enemies. I think the rule I used was 0 Blind at 50% Fatigue, increasing by 1pt for every half a percent below 50, until it's 100 Blind at 0 Fatigue.)



i am tim! posted:

For those of you who are interested in Morrowind but aren’t interested in modding out Fatigue (or are playing the X-Box version for whatever reason), an easy way to deal with it is to craft Restore Fatigue potions. Since food items count as alchemy ingredients, and most foods have Restore Fatigue, you can pretty easily whip up a bunch by going a tavern or inn and buying all the bread, rice and meat (but not rat meat) they have. These potions will have a decent duration even with low skill, so it’s pretty easy to pop one every few fights and keep yourself relatively topped up.
And some numbers, for perspective: Running costs 5 Fatigue per second. Swimming costs 7/s. You regenerate, at all times, 2.5 + (.02 * Endurance) fatigue per second. You can't start with less than 30 Endurance, I think, so your base rate of Fatigue generation is 3.1/s.

Result: You only need 2 points of Restore Fatigue to run endlessly. At 3 points, your Fatigue goes up while running, just not as quickly. I usually make a spell of Restore Fatigue 1-3 pt, 10s. It averages restoring 20 points of Fatigue over ten seconds and is easier to cast than if it were for a flat 2pt, and I think cheaper than an instant 20pt Restore Fatigue.

(Or you buff your Endurance to over 125.)

(But seriously mod it out if you want.)


edit: I just looked at the list of alchemy ingredients that give Restore Fatigue and it's Bread's sole effect.

So a Restore Fatigue potion can basically just be a sandwich. Crab, egg, scuttle, whatever, put some bread around it and eat.

Vavrek fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Apr 3, 2020

FBS
Apr 27, 2015

The real fun of living wisely is that you get to be smug about it.

lots of cowards ITT that play my favorite game the wrong way :colbert:

dracula vladdy AF
May 6, 2011
Has there ever been a mod that allows the player to make sandwiches? There are a lot of interesting ingredients in Morrowind and I'd like to make sandwiches with them

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

dracula vladdy AF posted:

Has there ever been a mod that allows the player to make sandwiches? There are a lot of interesting ingredients in Morrowind and I'd like to make sandwiches with them

I'm not seeing anything for Morrowind and 'sandwich' on Nexus; Modhistory has some cooking mods, but none mention sandwiches specifically.

Sounds like you've got an idea for your next (first?) mod.

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?
Does the tea mod add tea sandwiches? I know it adds some small cookies and biscuits.

Stuporstar
May 5, 2008

Where do fists come from?

Guildenstern Mother posted:

Does the tea mod add tea sandwiches? I know it adds some small cookies and biscuits.

It doesn’t, but last year Merlord was working on a lua-based needs mod that lets you cook and put together foods like that. I helped him work out some of the recipes before having to take a modding hiatus, and the list included sandwiches. I was planning to incorporate them in the next tea mod so you could cook using the same assets/lua scripts without the needs/survival based scripting. Unfortunately I can’t get back to modding for a while, so it’ll have to wait

I don’t know how far Merlord has gotten, or Drak who was looking into adapting Morrowind Crafting to work using lua scripts, but maybe they got something out that lets you make food by now

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?
drat. Here I was just wondering if there was an item labeled cucumber and watercress sandwich. You're a wonderful madman.

ambient oatmeal
Jun 23, 2012

dracula vladdy AF posted:

Has there ever been a mod that allows the player to make sandwiches? There are a lot of interesting ingredients in Morrowind and I'd like to make sandwiches with them

There's one that adds a sandwich but probably not one you'd want to eat

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/46741

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?
Depends on what you're into really

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004



Those look like souls gems to anyone else? I've read that Skyrim was surprisingly popular in Japan, so a little nod like that wouldn't surprise me.

Edit; that's a little muddy, this is the original
https://twitter.com/No_X_in_Nixon/status/1252896734067527680?s=20

Sky Shadowing
Feb 13, 2012

At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)
Pretty sure it was the first western game that Famitsu gave a perfect score to. It did pretty well over there, comparatively to other western games.

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao


yeah, skyrim and the fallout games did pretty well in japan i think

Lt. Lizard
Apr 28, 2013
Not gonna lie, when I saw that screenshot, I missed the text and for good 10-15 seconds I was like "wow, those are some nice graphics and that sword is pretty nifty too, maybe a bit too anime, but I wonder what mods is he using" until I finally realized it was a screenshot from FF7 remake and not Skyrim. :psyduck:

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012

Lt. Lizard posted:

Not gonna lie, when I saw that screenshot, I missed the text and for good 10-15 seconds I was like "wow, those are some nice graphics and that sword is pretty nifty too, maybe a bit too anime, but I wonder what mods is he using" until I finally realized it was a screenshot from FF7 remake and not Skyrim. :psyduck:

Installing FF7 mods is a time honored tradition for elder scrolls games, one of the first mods I installed on oblivion added the motorcycle from Advent Children as a horse lol

mbt
Aug 13, 2012

*random generic geodes*

wow are those soul gems

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

Got a link for that? For, uhm, scientific reasons.

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012

https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/10416 I think this is it

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

FBS posted:

lots of cowards ITT that play my favorite game the wrong way :colbert:

The wringing of hands about fatigue in Morrowind has always been funny to me because, while it's true it's probably not a good mechanic, it's also trivial to keep your fatigue maxed out without mods. A crazy amount of alchemy ingredients, including many of the most common ones, have the "restore fatigue" quality. A good number can restore and buff your fatigue. And these ingredients are very common. You find stacks of them in random barrels and crates. They grow in huge patches at every single farm/plantation. They grow all over the place outside. Alchemists and innkeepers sell them for a pittance. It is the simplest thing in the world to be drowning yourself in fatigue potions by the time you leave Seyda Neen. Plus, you're leveling your alchemy doing it! That's good!


Now you may be thinking "but Chomp, what if I don't want to use alchemy on this character?" Well let me tell you buddy, if you're playing Morrowind and you don't want to do alchemy, you are loving wrong.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

TES is so popular in Japan that they used its main theme for FF15 :v:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcs2emQFAVw

Sky Shadowing
Feb 13, 2012

At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)

Fister Roboto posted:

TES is so popular in Japan that they used its main theme for FF15 :v:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcs2emQFAVw

That's definitely somewhat similar but not close enough to rankle any legal teams.

poisonpill
Nov 8, 2009

The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.


Chomp8645 posted:

The wringing of hands about fatigue in Morrowind has always been funny to me because, while it's true it's probably not a good mechanic, it's also trivial to keep your fatigue maxed out without mods. A crazy amount of alchemy ingredients, including many of the most common ones, have the "restore fatigue" quality. A good number can restore and buff your fatigue. And these ingredients are very common. You find stacks of them in random barrels and crates. They grow in huge patches at every single farm/plantation. They grow all over the place outside. Alchemists and innkeepers sell them for a pittance. It is the simplest thing in the world to be drowning yourself in fatigue potions by the time you leave Seyda Neen. Plus, you're leveling your alchemy doing it! That's good!


Now you may be thinking "but Chomp, what if I don't want to use alchemy on this character?" Well let me tell you buddy, if you're playing Morrowind and you don't want to do alchemy, you are loving wrong.

“This bad mechanic is good because it is trivial to exploit around” is a time-honored hot take, but it is still wrong.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


poisonpill posted:

“This bad mechanic is good because it is trivial to exploit around” is a time-honored hot take, but it is still wrong.

using the saltrice they shower you with is not an exploit

Doc Hawkins
Jun 15, 2010

Dashing? But I'm not even moving!


having finally played a dark souls game, i'm ready to say that, in morrowind, using potions in combat is too frictionless to be fun

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

poisonpill posted:

“This bad mechanic is good because it is trivial to exploit around” is a time-honored hot take, but it is still wrong.

What about hot takes like "using alchemy is an exploit", or quoting the post that says verbatim "it's true it's probably not a good mechanic" and interpreting it as saying "this bad mechanic is good" ?


Where do those rank on the hot take scale.

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mbt
Aug 13, 2012

Doc Hawkins posted:

having finally played a dark souls game, i'm ready to say that, in morrowind, using potions in combat is too frictionless to be fun

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/45624
i agree

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