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In the previous Doom mega-LP, that was demonstrated to great effect in multiplayer. People can see that green blob coming and try to avoid it. But they can't see the shotgun blast of invisible radiation emitting from your face.
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Apr 18, 2020 03:57
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The BFG rays are always pointed in the same direction in which the green yoga ball was fired. So if you shot the weapon towards the NE when it finally detonates all the rays from your body will point to the NE also. Unless source ports changed it? Another fun property of the BFG is that the ray traces are still emitted even if you're a corpse. So if you fire it and get fragged before the primary shot detonation your corpse will still emit the death rays applying damage to anything they hit as usual. Edit: Per ye olde BFG FAQ in the above scenario your corpse will still radiate the traces even if you respawn in the interim. Oddly enough if you respawn and manage to get within the cone of traces emitted by your corpse you will take damage and potentially die too. It also points out that if you respawn any kills made by your corpse will not be attributed to you, and if your corpse kills you it doesn't count against you as a suicide. These quirks apply to the vanilla engine and I'm not sure if they exist unchanged in modern ports or not. Fabulousity fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 04:17
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You mentioned the caco design came from a D&D cover, I had to grognard up because I immediately recognized it as the cover from the Manual of the Planes: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Cacodemon
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Apr 18, 2020 05:59
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Interestingly enough, this video has both the strongest contestants for the title of worst map in Doom: E3M2 and E3M5. Slow, grindy, no real threats, boring. e: You weren't kidding about the least satisfying way to find a BFG; there's actually one in E3M3. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Apr 19, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 11:23
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are you seriously just gonna talk about those holes
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Apr 18, 2020 17:07
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anilEhilated posted:Interestingly enough, this video has both the strongest contestants for the title of worst map in Doom: E3M2 and E3M5. Slow, grindy, no real threats, boring. My vote's on E3M5. Slough of Despair's at least quick if you know where you absolutely need to go and I like how it looks on the automap. Unholy Cathedral is just long and boring even when you know the quickest route. On the other hand, it does lead to Mt. Erebus, which is probably my favorite level of the episode in aesthetics. It's eye-searing, but it's an otherworldly type of eye-searing. I appreciate that mostly because I only had Doom II as a kid, and its depiction of Hell is pretty hit-or-miss compared to Doom Episode 3; even when a level properly sells a depiction of Actual Hell, it's invariably sandwiched between another two levels that are just regular old caves with a little more blood or lava.
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Apr 18, 2020 23:33
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Kadorhal posted:My vote's on E3M5. Slough of Despair's at least quick if you know where you absolutely need to go and I like how it looks on the automap. Unholy Cathedral is just long and boring even when you know the quickest route. I suppose as far as OG Doom interpretations go, Sigil's is pretty good--but of course that comes with twenty-some-odd years of hindsight.
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Apr 19, 2020 00:07
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Kadorhal posted:On the other hand, it does lead to Mt. Erebus, which is probably my favorite level of the episode in aesthetics. It's eye-searing, but it's an otherworldly type of eye-searing. I appreciate that mostly because I only had Doom II as a kid, and its depiction of Hell is pretty hit-or-miss compared to Doom Episode 3; even when a level properly sells a depiction of Actual Hell, it's invariably sandwiched between another two levels that are just regular old caves with a little more blood or lava.  It's a shame they got rid of that tileset for Doom 2. On the other hand, you can kind of understand it as it would get pretty drat hard on the eyes for extended periods of time. You only rarely see it in custom maps, too.
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Apr 19, 2020 08:48
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Episode 3 being heavy on enemies that don't drop anything always made it feel a lot more hostile than ep1, as well. Although it is convenient that there are health and ammo caches lying around, it just makes me feel so much more at the mercy of the environment itself. At any rate, the tech limitations seem to have forced in a level of surrealism that tends to have fallen away once devs got their hands on ways to make more "realistic" environments. Deserts and lava caves with occasional fleshy bits are one thing, but the art direction really needs a bit of Heironymous Bosch to get things going properly. Eagerly awaiting the secret level here...
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Apr 19, 2020 10:01
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anilEhilated posted:You only rarely see it in custom maps, too. Well, in most custom maps. There are exceptions 
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Apr 19, 2020 20:33
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Carpator Diei posted:Well, in most custom maps. There are exceptions ...You know, that's not... terrible.
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Apr 20, 2020 20:59
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 Jacob learns that sometimes you just need to get it over with.
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Apr 24, 2020 20:01
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Why was there never a stage in the game called 'Dat'?
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Apr 24, 2020 20:51
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Wow, yeah, the YouTube compression murdered the video on Mt. Erebus. RIP. I believe the rocket jump is actually the intended method of getting into that secret exit there. You're probably meant to use the invincibility to get in, but like Jacob I squandered it many minutes before that point. I didn't feel like taking a rocket to the face though, so I actually save-scummed the strafe-run until I got it. The Warrens is a fantastic dick move, and I love it. Taking out cacodemons with the shotgun always makes me miss the SSG, though. Fuckers are bullet sponges. I feel like there's no honest reason not to just replace the shotgun with the SSG while playing Doom II, considering it does 3x the damage for a mere 2x the ammo. It seems like the normal shotgun has a bit more utility compared to the SSG in Doom 64, but that's a subject for much later. Now, personally, if I could take Thy Flesh Consumed out of Doom and replace it with Sigil, I would. That being said, I'm glad I played Sigil after TFC because I wanted more of the game but also Sigil was a much more fitting send-off in my opinion. But again, that comes with 20 some-odd years of hindsight on Romero's part. Oh yeah, I started on Doom 64 (or to be more precise, Doom 64: Retribution, the total conversion for GZDoom). It is interesting. I look forward to Jacob getting there; I have things to say about it. PS: Giggling at "dinglehoppers." That's my second-favorite goofy insult behind "goobersmooch." Also the end of the first spider-demon fight was hilarious.
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Apr 24, 2020 22:45
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Warrens is such a simple but cool gimmick level, I love it. I just wish it was a bit larger and more complex. Is there any health in that boss level? After the sweet duel you have with the cyberdemon, setting you up against a hitscanner final boss always felt like a complete dick move.
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Apr 25, 2020 06:38
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KeiraWalker posted:I believe the rocket jump is actually the intended method of getting into that secret exit there. You're probably meant to use the invincibility to get in, but like Jacob I squandered it many minutes before that point. I didn't feel like taking a rocket to the face though, so I actually save-scummed the strafe-run until I got it. Crazy Achmed posted:Is there any health in that boss level? anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 11:03
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Gnoman posted:For anyone who hasn't read it, Masters Of Doom is a very good telling of the story of ID Software's early days up until after Romero left. The creation of DooM is, of course, the centerpoint of the story. It nearly reads as a tragedy. The Johns needed each other to function best: Romero comes off as needing to be watched and reined in constantly, but Carmack was way too introverted to be the face of iD and had little creative drive like Romero did. After they split Romero famously crashed and burned after creating Daikatana, a video game based off of the Dungeons & Dragons module they played in the book. Carmack never really failed, but id Software's big development wins after that have been versions of either Doom or Quake, their real money came from the engine licensing. It's a great read and I think the book shows why there's Super Mario Brothers 2 graphics in one of the Commander Keen games.
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Apr 25, 2020 23:29
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raifield posted:Romero comes off as needing to be watched and reined in constantly, Yeah, I'm sure it gets mentioned in the book but I remember reading somewhere else that half the reason he left after Quake was that the rest of the team was getting tired of him apparently spending more time playing their existing games than helping to make the new one.
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Apr 26, 2020 18:53
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I remember Id did a big IRC chat in the leadup to Quake's release that I believe Romero was fielding. It started off as a simple Q&A, but as people asked him more and more questions about game features, he started 'Yes And'ing a lot of stuff in the game, such as being able to eat enemies to regain health (which I think was a feature that was meant to be in Doom and Wolf3D - early Id had a weird boner for cannibalism) and various RPG mechanics, none of which were in the game or could've been made in time to fit in the game before release. When it actually came out, there was a backlash based on that chat with people saying that features had been taken out the game or that they'd lied to their fans in order to drum up hype.
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Apr 26, 2020 19:25
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Kadorhal posted:Yeah, I'm sure it gets mentioned in the book but I remember reading somewhere else that half the reason he left after Quake was that the rest of the team was getting tired of him apparently spending more time playing their existing games than helping to make the new one. If you can locate a copy of Geoff Keighly's excellent "Knee Deep in a Dream" article on the creation of Daikatana (you'll probably need the Internet Archive, it went down with Gamespot way back when), that gives Romero and Carmack's sides of the story in relation to his departure. Romero was officially fired and Carmack says he "stopped working". Romero says he spent his time designing cool stuff for Quake that nobody paid any attention to, so he'd started putting out feelers to look for new business partners and assumed "word got back to Id". Whatever the truth, Romero was clearly disillusioned and disengaged after Quake's release.
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Apr 26, 2020 21:21
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Loxbourne posted:Whatever the truth, Romero was clearly disillusioned and disengaged after Quake's release. I can't remember if someone mentioned this in the thread already, but didn't a lot of Romero's more out-there ideas (specifically those involving medieval imagery and non-FPS things) get shot down during Quake's development and Romero was really salty about it?
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Apr 26, 2020 21:32
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theenglishman posted:I can't remember if someone mentioned this in the thread already, but didn't a lot of Romero's more out-there ideas (specifically those involving medieval imagery and non-FPS things) get shot down during Quake's development and Romero was really salty about it? That sounds about right, yeah. The version I'm familiar with was like, Romero wanted to make something big and grandiose and not just another FPS, but the team had already spent a really long time just making Quake's engine, so toward the end they just really wanted it to be done and out the door, so the rest of them were like "let's just make it like Doom and ship it."
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Apr 27, 2020 14:47
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Loxbourne posted:If you can locate a copy of Geoff Keighly's excellent "Knee Deep in a Dream" article on the creation of Daikatana (you'll probably need the Internet Archive, it went down with Gamespot way back when), that gives Romero and Carmack's sides of the story in relation to his departure. Romero was officially fired and Carmack says he "stopped working". Romero says he spent his time designing cool stuff for Quake that nobody paid any attention to, so he'd started putting out feelers to look for new business partners and assumed "word got back to Id". KeiraWalker posted:That sounds about right, yeah. The version I'm familiar with was like, Romero wanted to make something big and grandiose and not just another FPS, but the team had already spent a really long time just making Quake's engine, so toward the end they just really wanted it to be done and out the door, so the rest of them were like "let's just make it like Doom and ship it." This (and the rest of id's troubles) are also covered in this long-form piece. Whatever his failings during the id days, Romero does come across these days as the one who's best reflected on and learnt from his mistakes.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:35
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How about his failings in the Ion Storm days? e: This post may or may not be a bitter reflection of the fact I'm old enough to remember the Daikatana hype and the - eventually - ensuing shitstorm. Sorry. e2: Anyone even remotely interested in gaming history and culture should read Masters of Doom, though. It's a fascinating book. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 16:12
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anilEhilated posted:How about his failings in the Ion Storm days? Haha. All the same failings, I think. The whole Daikatana debacle was Rockstar Romero being brought back down to Earth with a thump.
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Apr 27, 2020 16:29
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I read somewhere that the infamous Daikatana magazine ad actually wasn't Romero's idea, but now of course I can't find where I saw it.
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Apr 27, 2020 16:57
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Seyser Koze posted:I read somewhere that the infamous Daikatana magazine ad actually wasn't Romero's idea, but now of course I can't find where I saw it. My favorite little thing about Daikatana is the fact the protagonist is said to be the descendant of Miyamoto Usagi, which I noticed when watching Matt McMuscles' "What Happened?" episode on the game. Miyamoto Musashi is of course the famous samurai they were going for, whereas Miyamoto Usagi is an anthropomorphic rabbit and the main character of Usagi Yojimbo. DMorbid fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 16:59
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I'm commenting late mostly because I'm lazy and more of a lurker, but I figured I'd be the guy who would  on Doom as it seems no one else has/cared to.The short "story" of Doom+Doom 2 is as follows: You are B.J. Blazkowicz III (yes, super decedent of BJ of Wolfenstine fame, and even Commander Keen(but gently caress cannon, you are DOOMGUY!!)) who is currently serving time on a remote base on Mars for having punched your superior officer because he ordered you and others to shoot at unarmed civilians and you disagreed with said order. While doing boring patrol, the comms come alive with orders, yells, screams, and hellish noises before going silent almost as quickly. Getting no response to any checks, you enter the base to find out what on Mars just happened. Doom ensues. Upon killing the Spider Mastermind and catching a portal back to Earth, you feel good that you literally went though Hell and back, killing every demon who stood in your way, stopping a potential invasion. That joy fades as you realize that not only did you NOT stop the invasion (and realizing you possibly HELPED cause it) but those bastards killed the one thing in the world you actually loved; your pet rabbit Daisy. Steeling yourself, you slowly walk towards the nearby city, vowing to go John Wick on these mo-fos till every last one is dead, you're dead, or the impossible, they retreat and even then you're not sure you'll stop. Doom II ensues. I won't get into any further lore unless we go beyond Doom II because even what I've typed is WAY more story that one would expect for a simple run-and-gun, kill anything that moves game. On top of that, you wouldn't even KNOW there was a story to begin with unless you actually read the manual and seriously, who would do that for this kind of game? If you bought the game back then, you knew what you were doing to install and play/run the game and figuring out the controls is simple by either playing and testing or just going to the options to look at the keybindings. Not exactly rocket science.
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Apr 27, 2020 19:14
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Ben Kasack posted:On top of that, you wouldn't even KNOW there was a story to begin with unless you actually read the manual and seriously, who would do that for this kind of game? If you bought the game back then, you knew what you were doing to install and play/run the game and figuring out the controls is simple by either playing and testing or just going to the options to look at the keybindings. Not exactly rocket science. I see someone was never a kid.
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Apr 27, 2020 21:46
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What's the official lore order now? Doom - The original jaunt through UAC's Martian real estate holdings and hell (Is Thy Flesh Consumed part of hell or is it after Doomguy goes back to Earth?) Doom 2 - Go back to Earth and continue killing ending with the destruction of the Icon of Sin Doom64 - I guess there's a special ending in the remaster that ties the end of Doom 64 to Doom 2016? Doom guy, now crazy, ends up on the gladiator planet or something and continues killing demons. He gets put into a sarcophagus at some point. Time passes. Doom (2016) - UAC tries to leech hell's cable TV. Chaos ensues. More time passes? Doom Guy gets a space ship? What? Doom Eternal - UAC gleefully brings hell to Earth and doesn't even try to be subtle about it. Doom Guy does his thing again. Doom 3 was originally a retelling of Doom but has now been expunged from the greater lore chain per Besethda?
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Apr 27, 2020 22:04
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Haha. All the same failings, I think. The whole Daikatana debacle was Rockstar Romero being brought back down to Earth with a thump. It's easy to have some sympathy for him (especially as noted, he does seem to have learned from it). It's apparent Romero had no idea how to run a business and quickly attracted a bunch of parasitic "partners", all casually discussing how massive their payoffs were going to be, and who had bright ideas like burning a contract with their publishers by buying up a cheap half-finished RTS game and quietly dumping it. The studio he actually founded was a rather tragic attempt to repeat the success of Id by hiring wild-eyed high school modders and college kids with undeniable talent. He just failed to understand Id's core team was a lucky fluke, and the same alienated dropout nerds he was hiring all had no idea how to function in a corporate environment and actually ship on time, or even produce usable work . There's a story in the Keighly column about an artist drawing an arrowhead with a higher resolution than the game itself, because nobody told him what specifications to work with. They were real good at drama though. Daikatana itself is pretty clearly a giant total conversion mod, right down to the weirdly detailed weapons that are more lethal to the player than the enemy because "make the damage 10,000 hur hur hur it'll be sooo awesome". What material has surfaced from Ion Storm gives the impression of a rather immature man locking himself in his office, unable to understand why everything is going wrong when he's doing all the things that should be good, dammit, and that worked last time.
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Apr 27, 2020 22:08
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Fabulousity posted:What's the official lore order now? It doesn't really matter but it's that Doom 1 happened, then 2, then 64 and its Lost Levels in the remaster, then Doomguy stayed in Hell a while and the flashbacks in Eternal happen (the "Three Ages of Hell" in the backstory the Doom Slayer was ripping and tearing through are pretty blatantly just the first three games) and he gets his shiny new armor, then 2016 and a few months after 2016, Eternal. Doom 3 is treated as a remake of parts of 1 and 2 but also not really. It's also left vague (but pretty unlikely) that it's the same Earth in 2016 and Eternal as 1, 2, and 64 because that'd be something like four different Hell invasions in centuries or millenia and nobody remembers any but the last one and the UAC is around the whole time. It's the Everyone Is Here of huge guts
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Apr 27, 2020 22:26
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I think what made ID work was their willingness to "shoot the engineer", with Romero as the engineer in question. Romero was exactly the sort who would continually push for more - there's a story about him reworking Daikatana mid-project because he wanted to include features from a Quake II demo he saw at a trade show. Meanwhile the rest of ID's staff was perfectly happy to cut off development at a certain point and "ship" it - declare that this is where we're going with this project, so finish the levels and go to bugtesting. There's an interesting parallel with Duke Nukem Forever, which was a disaster largely because the developers kept wanting to add more.
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Apr 27, 2020 22:30
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Gnoman posted:There's an interesting parallel with Duke Nukem Forever, which was a disaster largely because the developers kept wanting to add more. After dealing with these constant demands for a while, the devs started to get sick of it and suggested that maybe they should stop George from playing new games during DNF's development.
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Apr 28, 2020 07:12
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Fabulousity posted:What's the official lore order now? What about TNT and Plutonia?
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Apr 28, 2020 07:20
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I figure it's more like alternate universes that sometimes connect to each other, than a distinct timeline. I mean, it's Doom, does it really need a cohesive timeline? (And let's not forget that Doomguy chills out in Quake 3 for a while, along with Doom girl who I don't think appeared in any of the Doom games)
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Apr 28, 2020 07:25
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Ben Kasack posted:I'm commenting late mostly because I'm lazy and more of a lurker, but I figured I'd be the guy who would While it's good to have it written down in the thread, didn't they already cover this in the LP? RBA Starblade posted:It doesn't really matter but it's that Doom 1 happened, then 2, then 64 and its Lost Levels in the remaster, then Doomguy stayed in Hell a while and the flashbacks in Eternal happen (the "Three Ages of Hell" in the backstory the Doom Slayer was ripping and tearing through are pretty blatantly just the first three games) and he gets his shiny new armor, then 2016 and a few months after 2016, Eternal. Doom 3 is treated as a remake of parts of 1 and 2 but also not really. It's also left vague (but pretty unlikely) that it's the same Earth in 2016 and Eternal as 1, 2, and 64 because that'd be something like four different Hell invasions in centuries or millenia and nobody remembers any but the last one and the UAC is around the whole time. I figure Hell kind of intersects with multiple dimensions at once. So it's two different Earths getting invaded by Demons. Which then raises the question of if 2016 Doom's reality has its own Doomguy who just got overshadowed by the Doom Slayer (or Hell made finding and killing him before he could become a 2nd Doom Slayer a priority while Doom Slayer Prime was entombed).
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Apr 28, 2020 17:43
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Tiggum posted:What about TNT and Plutonia? On that note: Will those be covered in the LP? If yes, there's an interesting mod for them called Final Doomer. It adds specific weaponsets for both TNT and Plutonia (and, by this point, for a bunch of other WADs as well); there's some really neat weapon designs in there.
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Apr 28, 2020 22:26
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Yvonmukluk posted:While it's good to have it written down in the thread, didn't they already cover this in the LP? The theory seems to be, at the moment, that the Earth you're defending in Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal--which the original Doomguy has crossed into through Hell and Argent D'Nur--is the reality in which Doom III takes place. As far as I understand it, this is based on dates in the in-game material lining up (I don't know which dates; can anyone clarify that?), and the general look & feel of the UAC technology you interact with between the three titles (this is what actually has me sold on the idea, after seeing a lot of Doom III gameplay). They do say that Argent D'Nur connects to multiple different "realms" in Eternal, up to and including Heaven & Hell, so it lends credence to the idea.
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Apr 28, 2020 22:52
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*writes about the continuity timeline of multiple dimensions in Doom* This is fine. I'm doing nothing wrong with my life.
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Apr 28, 2020 23:26
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