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yuming posted:So we know both Somb and ~someone else~ can give items. Toal's dismissal of the flavor that happened wrt SNG shooting birb is what makes me convinced something real stinky is going on here. And a ~miller claim~ would be a good cover for a cult, imo
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May 13, 2020 14:19
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as far as SNG's role it seems like it could exist. It's not a role I've seen on SA Mafia but I've seen versions of it in other places, so sure.
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May 13, 2020 14:20
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Toalpaz posted:I mean, flavourwise, that happened in italics doesn't mean anything right? This is not true. Flavor matters in Ecco games, at least a little. When the first gun exploded, that was clearly an intrinsic effect. If would have exploded no matter who shot it. The flavor for SNGs gun indicates that it fired properly but an extrinsic effect caused the kill to fail. Whether that's Hawke's own power or that of an item Hawke is carrying I don't know, but it seems clear to me that Ecco was indicating that this gun would have worked if fired at someone else.
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May 13, 2020 14:24
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Monathin posted:Toal's dismissal of the flavor that happened wrt SNG shooting birb is what makes me convinced something real stinky is going on here. And a ~miller claim~ would be a good cover for a cult, imo Right now I'm of the opinion that SNG is trying to be helpful and I don't want to kill them today. I want to kill, chaoslord, Gamer, Toal or birb.
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May 13, 2020 14:26
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I have a very strong suspicion that if a cult exists, which I think it does, birb is at the center of it. Ergo, I believe we should kill birb.
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May 13, 2020 14:28
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xopods posted:This is not true. Flavor matters in Ecco games, at least a little. When the first gun exploded, that was clearly an intrinsic effect. If would have exploded no matter who shot it. There's also the fact the inherently magical effects have been linked to cults before in Eccogames, and birb's stopping of the bullet in flavor was inherently described as magical. The Murder of St. Leroux, iirc, is the one I'm thinking of. I don't have a link handy as I'm mobile and just finished work, but it was one of the few Ecco cult games.
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May 13, 2020 14:30
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OMG why are so many people talking about a loving cult? There have been no cultist-aligned flips, cults are extremely rare because they're usually a bad idea, and if there is one, there'd have to be some strong anti-cult roles to balance it and we haven't seen evidence of any of those either. All we have is a mini-game involving some 3Ps, that's all. Maybe their goals are more or less aligned with/contrary to the main teams' win conditions or maybe they're totally orthogonal, but I don't see any reason to speculate about recruitment/changing win conditions in this game. IMO sand's being mostly honest, the other 3P is probably Hawke, and it's probably somewhat bad but not game-ending for us if he gets all the items he's looking for. That sounds like a totally reasonable game-within-the-game for a couple of 3Ps in this sized setup.
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May 13, 2020 14:35
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xopods did you miss the part where Somb, Toal and Hawke have essentially admitted to being able to communicate OOT or?
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May 13, 2020 14:37
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Somberbrero posted:There is, in fact. Specifically, here.
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May 13, 2020 14:39
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yuming posted:I want to kill, chaoslord, Gamer, Toal or birb. Yuming is good and wise. This is an excellent shortlist. Sandwolf's Town-aligned watcher flip makes it comparatively more likely that either Gamer or his mystery PR buddy are not Town.
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May 13, 2020 14:40
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Monathin posted:xopods did you miss the part where Somb, Toal and Hawke have essentially admitted to being able to communicate OOT or? We know almost for sure there are at least two masonries. And Somb said he "send something" to yuming... I think there's a lot of stuff going on OOT and during the night phases, but that doesn't mean anyone's wincons are changing. And a cult wouldn't say "yeah, we're connected, it's true!"
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May 13, 2020 14:42
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I need to get home to put together a quick lost but needless to say I think you're very wrong in your assumptions here.
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May 13, 2020 14:45
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Toalpaz posted:I got "president of the manufactory and citizen who pays his taxes" so uh... pretty unremarkable, but different. that is incorrect, toal. SHALASHASKA HAWKE posted:Did anything else happen last night Gamer? lil poo poo still hasn't checked in, but I kicked away an emerald to toal and received a bottle of wine. otherwise no. sandnavyguy posted:However, you grabbed the gun, which you did not use,despite the fact that you had a BP ability. I just wanted tomake it more difficult to shoot someone, since I figured the guns are probably self-kills combined with active shots.If you had the BP, you'd be more incentivised to use it since if it blew in your face itd be a wash this is weird xopods posted:Yuming is good and wise. This is an excellent shortlist. I am honestly not hardset in this one myself, because yuming andSNG[/i] are claiming watchers. It could be there's a metric fuckton of :eyes: characters because it's item madness. It could also be that only sand was a watcher and everyone else is lying. Who knows! Magical. xopods posted:We know almost for sure there are at least two masonries. And Somb said he "send something" to yuming... I think there's a lot of stuff going on OOT and during the night phases, but that doesn't mean anyone's wincons are changing. town wouldn't also keep stoking the cult fire out of whimsy, either. unless it was funny I guess but that's still not a pro-town move!!
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May 13, 2020 15:05
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I am not a watcher. I used a 1x shot watch item.
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May 13, 2020 15:09
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Okay obviously I've missed a few details in all this and don't have time to totally catch up. I wish this game had a player like Xiw who'd put together all the claims/who has what items/etc. in one convenient list. Any go-getters willing to do that?
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May 13, 2020 15:09
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that sounds like way to much effort
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May 13, 2020 15:11
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Gamerofthegame posted:town wouldn't also keep stoking the cult fire out of whimsy, either. That doesn't mean there's actually a cult. It means that there is some mixture of idiot Townies getting too  about everything, and people who'd like to stoke the paranoia because Scum are on the ropes and they're going to lose if they let things take their natural course from here.I think most of the remaining Scum are on yuming's shortlist.
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May 13, 2020 15:12
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xopods posted:Okay obviously I've missed a few details in all this and don't have time to totally catch up. I wish this game had a player like Xiw who'd put together all the claims/who has what items/etc. in one convenient list. Maybe we can get one of the new players. Wait, poo poo
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May 13, 2020 15:12
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Note that not everyone deliberately fueling the "is there a cult?" speculation is necessarily Scum. E.g. whoever's trying to collect certain items probably needs more time to do so and doesn't want Town winning too quickly.
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May 13, 2020 15:13
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Monathin posted:xopods did you miss the part where Somb, Toal and Hawke have essentially admitted to being able to communicate OOT or? I missed that bit
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May 13, 2020 15:43
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I sent the wine to Gamer last night; I haven’t had or used any other items apart from the gonne which is a day item only.
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May 13, 2020 15:45
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Okay, here is my quick hits of Potential Evidence For A Cult With Birb As Leader: - Early on in the game, during D1, after Somb claims Miller, Birb slowly rolls out a claim of being "Miller-like" in conjunction. This causes quite a bit of confusion and is a temporary focus of D1 but is ultimately pushed aside as some D1 weirdness. Now, despite the fact multiple Millers seems pretty fishy in and of itself, this is never brought back up again from D2 onward, by Somber or otherwise. - In addition, reread Somber's D1 interactions with Birb, especially surrounding that. Do they sound like people who are communicating OOT, at this point? I don't think they do, personally. - The current other masonries we know of that exist or existed in some form are PMom/Fisk (supposedly confirmed) and Gamer/??? (Reportedly unconfirmed.) Somber admitted that this out of thread communication is between three people (at least, I'll get to that): Themselves, birb, and Toal. Three-person masonries aren't uncommon but I feel like having a 3-person masonry in addition to two 2-person masonries is a big strange. - Birb, despite being "Miller-like", is gun shy. He says he'll use the gun and then turns around and goes "oh what so I can blow myself up then???" This is uncharacteristic for birb. And then there's Literally EVERYTHING surrounding SNG's shooting of birb. These are important so I'll go through them here: - SNG grabs the pestola and shoots birb. The flavor claims Birb caught the bullet with magic. - Immediately, PMom chimes in with a prompt for an explanation that seems to imply PMom knows why birb didn't die. I will admit I could be reading too much into it but the way PMom uses "Now you get to explain why[/i]" implies they were waiting for Birb to be revealed unharmed by the pestola. If I am right this means the '3-person masonry' is actually a 4-person masonry that has a person who was already in a masonry in it. - Birb, in his various back and forths, says he doesn't know why he didn't die to the pestola. This is explicitly contradictory to the flavor posted by Ecco. - Toal tips his hand, basically trying to shoo Ecco's entire thing under the rug as "weird flavor"and blame the gun. Because Toal is part of the "masonry", as explicitly outlined by Somb, Toal is stepping in to protect Birb, which means Birb's role, despite being "Miller-like", is one Toal feels needs protecting. Birb is a cult leader. Somb, Toal, and Pmom are cultists.
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May 13, 2020 15:47
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yuming posted:So we know both Somb and ~someone else~ can give items. Not quite. Somberbrero posted:Hello friends it's nice to see you 🙂 Atomic Soda posted:hello! hope you no longer feeling blue : )
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May 13, 2020 15:50
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Monathin posted:- Immediately, PMom chimes in with a prompt for an explanation that seems to imply PMom knows why birb didn't die. I will admit I could be reading too much into it but the way PMom uses "Now you get to explain why[/i]" implies they were waiting for Birb to be revealed unharmed by the pestola. If I am right this means the '3-person masonry' is actually a 4-person masonry that has a person who was already in a masonry in it. That's not what I said. sandnavyguy posted:Let's get back to basics. I'm on town's side and have my reasons for 3p hunting, and I think I have my first one. Pinterest Mom posted:now you get to explain your 3p claim, sng SNG implicitly claimed being 3P in the post where they shot birb. I wanted them to make the implicit claim explicit and explain their deal. I waited until the action to resolve because it felt polite.
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May 13, 2020 15:52
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Monathin keeps misrepresenting things. I know why I didn’t die to the gonne. What I didn’t know was whether or not the effect would be there. This is what SNG has lied about too, there no way he could have known that that effect was there and that the shot would remove it.
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May 13, 2020 15:52
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Somberbrero posted:Not quite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK_0jXPuIr0
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May 13, 2020 15:53
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yuming posted:Are you asking if I think there’s a connection between Gamer, Toal and Somb? Somberbrero posted:There is, in fact. Monathin posted:xopods did you miss the part where Somb, Toal and Hawke have essentially admitted to being able to communicate OOT or? Wrong name in there, and wrong connection 🙂
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May 13, 2020 15:53
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Yuming should know.
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May 13, 2020 15:54
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Monathin is putting more effort for finding a cult than finding mafia. Just an observation.
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May 13, 2020 15:59
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Token Female posted:Monathin is putting more effort for finding a cult than finding mafia. Just an observation. Well,I for one am happy for it,though I'm thinking that even if its not a traditional "cult" there is something weird going on with hawke in thread. And it wasn't a lie, he had a Silver amulet, don't know if it was given to him or he started the game with it. But when I spied on it the flavor said it had paraphrased: mystical energies that could keep the wearer from harm, but it is fragile. I assumed that was BP. How exactly is that a lie? And for all I know he may have been holding onto it prior to, All my spyglass lets me do is pick a color, and I get to see what an item does and the current holder. I can't see who gives what to whom but since AS flipped enchanter I assume it was them.
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May 13, 2020 16:09
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I’ve never had that item.
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May 13, 2020 16:11
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And if I was wrong? If he had no BP? Well then, I'd have taken out someone I'm almost certain is either 3p or scum.
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May 13, 2020 16:11
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oh my god
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May 13, 2020 16:12
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Ah, the item came from AS originally.
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May 13, 2020 16:28
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So there is a big masonry OR cult OR anti-SNG faction made up of Toal/gamer/Somber. birb had a BP item but denied it for ~some reason~ SNG and Mona think there is a cult. I think there are more likely to be some sort of weird faction wars like xopods suggested at this point. I am so sold on chaoslord as scum I really wanna kill him today.
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May 13, 2020 16:33
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Chaos is scum - there’s no doubt about that. But I really think we need to lunch birb first.
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May 13, 2020 16:34
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SHALASHASKA HAWKE posted:oh my god I don't see how you would have an item and not know about it given how items have worked for me this game.
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May 13, 2020 16:34
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b-minus1 posted:Chaos is scum - there’s no doubt about that. But I really think we need to lunch birb first.
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May 13, 2020 16:34
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yuming posted:So there is a big masonry OR cult OR anti-SNG faction made up of Toal/gamer/Somber. Whoah whoah whoah none of that's true.
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May 13, 2020 16:35
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Maybe - and it’s just a thought - maybe I was protected by white magic because I’m a white mage.
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May 13, 2020 16:43
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