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Dawgstar posted:Isn't there some "joke" Teddie keeps running into the ground about Yukiko? Yes. Yes there is.
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Jun 1, 2020 22:49
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Dawgstar posted:Isn't there some "joke" Teddie keeps running into the ground about Yukiko? Best of all, he hears it offhand from Yosuke, I think, and just keeps repeating it like a child. I'm not sure he even understands half the poo poo he says sometimes.
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Jun 2, 2020 01:54
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I don't see a lot of horniness for Ann outside of a few scenes. Yusuke is weird about it, and he's approaching from some non sexual appreciation of beauty, and then when they're all in the monamobile in the desert. Otherwise I can't remember anyone else really bringing it up. Mona is just non stop horny about Ann and I find it well passes anything funny and right into creepy. I mean the game itself is horny towards Ann - her catsuit (that she hates), her "sexy technique", her victory poses. Wanting to have a Catwoman-type femme fatale in your game with heist-inspired characters is fine, but having her be the one you are introduced to in the context of sexual menace (and then has another non-consensual nude modeling plot!) and having her object to that treatment but have it happen anyway is not good. If she wanted to reclaim her sexuality and was really into her outfit and stuff that'd be a totally different thing, but that's not the game we have. I like Ann's overall character reasonably well and the game eventually gets better about treating her well (with a few exceptions), but my sister grabbed P5R recently and basically had to message me to ask if it ever got any better about Ann and her position was totally comprehensible to me.
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Jun 2, 2020 02:01
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I don't think she can really hate her outfit. It derives from her inner desires of rebellions and represents the power she wants. It's her own self expression. She does have a lot of generic sexy going on, as you say, but I never saw it go much deeper than that. I can see how people would read it that way though.
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Jun 2, 2020 02:20
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I don't think she can really hate her outfit. It derives from her inner desires of rebellions and represents the power she wants. It's her own self expression. And Quiet breathes through her skin. At the very least, she states she feels uncomfortable wearing it. She might not be able to 'hate' it, but it's not something she wants to wear.
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Jun 2, 2020 02:29
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It could have been interesting to have characters outfits change as you level up their social rank. So when they awaken for the first time it is the purest sense of rebellion and then it is slowly working your way back to it.
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Jun 2, 2020 02:33
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Hunt11 posted:It could have been interesting to have characters outfits change as you level up their social rank. So when they awaken for the first time it is the purest sense of rebellion and then it is slowly working your way back to it. Yeah, I feel like this is a bit of a missed opportunity. I would've taken dropping a few of late game personas in-exchange for freeing up some resources for this. Though to be fair, I feel like the of the P5 narrative is a lot of missed opportunities. That being said I'm going to hold off my diatribe about it until later tonight when I finally get around to finishing Royale.
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Jun 2, 2020 02:54
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Hellioning posted:And Quiet breathes through her skin. At the very least, she states she feels uncomfortable wearing it. She might not be able to 'hate' it, but it's not something she wants to wear. Ann and Makoto both complain about their outfits in the Thieves’ Den and Mementos chatter. So while they on some level identify with and draw confidence from their attire, they aren’t completely comfortable with being seen in it. They seem okay enough to keep doing what needs to be done, but running around in borderline fetish gear has got to take some getting used to.
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Jun 2, 2020 04:11
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IMO it's some "have your cake and eat it too" situation stemming from Japanese sensibilities about femininity/relationships. Ann's self-expression is meant to be a femme fatale sexy rebel kind of deal, and I think you can still see that quite clearly in the beach sequence where Ryuji pervs over her and she teases him about it, and I'm fairly certain that was the initial direction they were going with it when they designed her character and costume (which they couldn't change later because they paid good money for those anime cutscenes, I guess). But somewhere along the road of development I think they tried to straddle the line with "women are supposed to be proper and chaste" because they thought it would make her more appealing to the audience. From the little I know about Japanese sexuality, it seems that traditional gender roles still dictate that one person is the pursuer and one person is supposed to act aloof/disinterested/uncomfortable with it. If two people are too much into each other it's more taboo/scandalous than if one person acts very interested and the other adopts some sort of passive role. And the whole "carnivorous women" trend/evolution in Japanese society, wherein women are taking on more active roles, is specifically still framed in this way where the woman takes the active role but the "herbivore man" takes this passive role of chastity/properness to balance it out? I'm not a sociologist and I'm not Japanese and all of my information on this relationship dynamic from the drunken ramblings of a good Japanese friend of mine who was complaining about it, but I could see how such a context would cause some people to drag Ann's character design into the "carnivore" or femme fatale direction whereas others thought that maybe players wouldn't want Joker to pursue her as relationship material if she were too aggressive or comfortable with sex, so we hang in this weird limbo where they try to simultaneously convince us she's a sexy femme fatale but she can't be too much of a sexy femme fatale or she wouldn't be "sexy" any more?
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Jun 2, 2020 09:36
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Deltasquid posted:IMO it's some "have your cake and eat it too" situation stemming from Japanese sensibilities about femininity/relationships. Ann's self-expression is meant to be a femme fatale sexy rebel kind of deal, and I think you can still see that quite clearly in the beach sequence where Ryuji pervs over her and she teases him about it, and I'm fairly certain that was the initial direction they were going with it when they designed her character and costume (which they couldn't change later because they paid good money for those anime cutscenes, I guess). But somewhere along the road of development I think they tried to straddle the line with "women are supposed to be proper and chaste" because they thought it would make her more appealing to the audience. From the little I know about Japanese sexuality, it seems that traditional gender roles still dictate that one person is the pursuer and one person is supposed to act aloof/disinterested/uncomfortable with it. If two people are too much into each other it's more taboo/scandalous than if one person acts very interested and the other adopts some sort of passive role. And the whole "carnivorous women" trend/evolution in Japanese society, wherein women are taking on more active roles, is specifically still framed in this way where the woman takes the active role but the "herbivore man" takes this passive role of chastity/properness to balance it out? This is an interesting take. It possibly also is why Makoto ends up in the weird situation she's in too, where she comes across as no-nonsense and aggressive in cutscenes but ultimately has this demure backstepping at times outside of it.
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Jun 2, 2020 14:22
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Lord_Magmar posted:This is an interesting take. It possibly also is why Makoto ends up in the weird situation she's in too, where she comes across as no-nonsense and aggressive in cutscenes but ultimately has this demure backstepping at times outside of it. Yeah. They make her whole Phantom Thief deal being a Fist of the North Star homage with Kaneda's bike but the female Pope then they're like 'whoa now some decorum.' While I still like Makoto, I think it could have been interesting if she would have been allowed to both own and channel her rage in productive ways instead of once she'd acknowledged it was there mostly ignoring it.
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Jun 2, 2020 14:52
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Ugh I liked 3 and 4 but I bounced off 5 the first time around. Decided to bite on Royal since I'd heard about a lot of improvements, but the first few hours are just so abysmal wrt pacing. I mean Jesus this game probably could have been cut in half if the dialogue had an editing pass to be less repetitive. Kamoshida? Volleyball? Kamoshida? Volleyball? Abuse??? Wow new guy must be bad. New guy bad? Like the first thirty minutes of the game basically gives you all the story info you need for the first place but then just slowly drags you along to the point where you can finally do poo poo. I want to like it (I mean the theme of young people rising up and destroying the corrupt old guard is exactly what I need right now) but compared to 3/4 the writing and characters just seem so much worse and less memorable. Am I just looking back with rose-colored glasses? I will typically tolerate janky or lackluster mechanics for a great or well-told story but rarely would I bother for vice versa. Thoughts? Am I totally off-base here?
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Jun 3, 2020 02:50
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I can't imagine liking four and thinking five has bad pacing. Four starts like goddamn molasses. I nearly fall asleep replaying it even with text skip in golden.
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Jun 3, 2020 03:04
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Gaius Marius posted:I can't imagine liking four and thinking five has bad pacing. Four starts like goddamn molasses. I nearly fall asleep replaying it even with text skip in golden. I dunno I just played the first couple hours of 4 a few months ago again and I feel like it's much less hand holdy and gets you into the normal flow of a little more quickly. But maybe that's just because it doesn't have as much voice acting? I definitely feel like the dialogue wasn't as repetitive and stilted though. I wish I'd taken some screenshots but even in royal there's a lot of stuff that sticks out as "people don't talk like this and it's really weird." Maybe 5 just has a lot more stuff that seems weird because of cultural differences. 
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Jun 3, 2020 03:10
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Yeah, 5 starts slow but 4 starts like a glacier. Dawgstar posted:Yeah. They make her whole Phantom Thief deal being a Fist of the North Star homage with Kaneda's bike but the female Pope then they're like 'whoa now some decorum.' While I still like Makoto, I think it could have been interesting if she would have been allowed to both own and channel her rage in productive ways instead of once she'd acknowledged it was there mostly ignoring it. Makoto's character could have been so much better. Makoto in battle and the metaverse is a reference-driven HERO OF JUSTICE and is great, but Makoto in her social link and most of the cutscenes is just 'student council president'. I get that we needed some sort of straight man after the first four idiots, but she gets played too straight too often.
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Jun 3, 2020 03:33
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I borrowed P5 from a friend and was wondering if the game ever reaches a point where I can do whatever the hell I want whenever the hell I want. I cleared the first palace and the game has just been alternating between trying to scope out a new mark and morgana telling me "gently caress you, go to bed." When do I actually get to control my guy with no strings attached and do stuff?
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Jun 3, 2020 04:04
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You never get full control but you get way more freedom starting at the second palace
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Jun 3, 2020 04:19
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And Tyler Too! posted:I borrowed P5 from a friend and was wondering if the game ever reaches a point where I can do whatever the hell I want whenever the hell I want. I cleared the first palace and the game has just been alternating between trying to scope out a new mark and morgana telling me "gently caress you, go to bed." When do I actually get to control my guy with no strings attached and do stuff? That's one of the things that Royal fixes. The cat shuts up about going to bed for ~90% of the times he does it in vanilla. Instead you can only do things you'd be able to do normally in the cafe at night. Which is a HUGE improvement imo. But yeah, expect a lot of being told to go to bed in vanilla.
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Jun 3, 2020 19:00
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Hello I just needed everyone to be aware that while you're driving the catmobile in Mementos, sliding or tapping on touchpad has a unique and amazing function
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Jun 4, 2020 00:07
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Doing my P5 (non-Royal) NG+ playthrough and wanted to post about this somewhere people would understand I just got past the Akechi boss fight and decided it was about time to fuse some endgame Personas because I finished the Strength arcana so I can do that without being level 100 or whatever, and, uh, I had to stop, because I spent a total of a million fuckin yen bribing Igor to let me fuse angels until I finally made the archangel Michael I'm pawning poo poo and spending hours running around the subway tunnels grinding trash mobs to feed my crippling persona fusion addiction, because my imaginary friend won't let me pretend to be an angel unless I, a teenager, pay him the equivalent of ten thousand US dollars. What does he need all that money for? He lives in an imaginary jail. gently caress you, Igor.  man I'm never gonna finish fusing all the different iterations of Satan at this rate
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Jun 4, 2020 03:44
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I like how Satan, Lucifer, and Satanael are all valid Personas in this game, and none of them are of the Devil arcana the strongest Devil Persona is Beelzebub, who isn't the Devil, but he is a devil, which I guess counts
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Jun 4, 2020 03:47
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Judgement is a weird arcana set. It's like Anubis and the Abrahamic A-Team.
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Jun 4, 2020 03:50
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also, I declined to get P5R when I learned I couldn't do an NG+ in it, but reading the OP of this thread makes it likely I'm inevitably going to do a third playthrough to try the remake at some point Maybe in a year or two
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Jun 4, 2020 04:01
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Judgement is a weird arcana set. It's like Anubis and the Abrahamic A-Team. It's literally beings that judge humanity. Anubis and his scales plus a bunch of big name angels. Satan in this context is acting as the judge of Abrahamic Hell, who determines the punishments for sinners. Lucifer by comparison is Lucifer the Morning Star, first born of the angels and first fallen. loquacius posted:I like how Satan, Lucifer, and Satanael are all valid Personas in this game, and none of them are of the Devil arcana Basically all of them are fallen angels, not devils.
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Jun 4, 2020 04:10
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Satan's not even fallen in standard SMT parlance, he's fairly solidly on YHVH's side most of the time.
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Jun 4, 2020 05:06
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loquacius posted:also, I declined to get P5R when I learned I couldn't do an NG+ in it, but reading the OP of this thread makes it likely I'm inevitably going to do a third playthrough to try the remake at some point You can totally NG+ it up, I dunno where you heard that from.
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Jun 4, 2020 05:34
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I think he's saying he can't transfer his save from vanilla to royal to start in ng+
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Jun 4, 2020 05:39
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loquacius posted:I like how Satan, Lucifer, and Satanael are all valid Personas in this game, and none of them are of the Devil arcana This is still a spinoff of SMT where the greatest evil is always God (who is essentially an even more arrogant and cruel Yaldy) and most angels are assholes. Lucifer is the only one of the three to be a fallen angel (who is still an rear end, but closer to humanity’s side than the non-fallen ones). The entire Yaldaboath is probably the closest Persona has ever been to its roots.
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Jun 4, 2020 11:56
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Okay, finished game. I have opinions that probably no one cares about. So the best part of Royal was edgelord-Akechi navigator and I'm incredibly disappointed that didn't last longer. In fact, having the whole not-so-thinly-veiled psychopath party member was probably the most refreshing aspect of Persona I've had for a while. The unique Will Seed accessories are super cool, and so are alarm fusions (especially itemization). It's also nice that you've gotten some slack as far as doing confidants. Now onto everything that's wrong with it. Morgana shutting the gently caress up at night is also pretty great, but not as great as having him get into bed with you in human form. Everything else felt incredibly underwhelming, incredibly unbalanced, or felt incredibly forced. Like if Yoshizawa didn't exist, would anyone have noticed? Also it's pretty lame that they took out the "who-dun-it" aspect of finding the traitor. It would've been cooler if they sprinkled a few extra clues about Akechi though rather relying on you catching that one slip up 60 hours ago. Also the whole philosophy argument presented with Maruki as the antagonist felt like a very forced discourse on "people who ask for happy endings are bad and this is what happens". Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike of the good but misguided villain concept, but I feel like this kind of "well I'll brainwash/use a massive illusion/put people in the matrix/etc. to make them happy" has been done way better too so many times it's coming off as incredibly stale here. All in all I don't think the game was worth the $60 repurchase. I think it's fine for a first time play through P5 playthrough, but like. If you've played through P5 once and didn't feel a strong urge to do an NG+, I don't think Royal honestly adds quality content to play it over something else. SweetBro fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Jun 4, 2020 |
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Jun 4, 2020 12:19
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DrNutt posted:Ugh I liked 3 and 4 but I bounced off 5 the first time around. Decided to bite on Royal since I'd heard about a lot of improvements, but the first few hours are just so abysmal wrt pacing. I mean Jesus this game probably could have been cut in half if the dialogue had an editing pass to be less repetitive. Kamoshida? Volleyball? Kamoshida? Volleyball? Abuse??? Wow new guy must be bad. New guy bad? The problem is that the Persona games tend to reuse personality types a lot so if you feel like the characters are boring and stale it's probably because you've already met half of them in P4 or P3. I also think that once you understand how Persona works, it becomes a less enjoyable game. Like once you realize that you have to select a response that a character would like so that you can cost-effectively progress their confidant to get everyone maxed to 10 before the game ends RATHER than selecting the hilarious one that you want, those scenes to lose a lot of their magic. The long intro is supposed to be a tutorial as to how all these secondary and tertiary gameplay loops work, but if you already know how they work they just come off as tedious framing narrative.
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Jun 4, 2020 12:29
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Definitely the weakest part of P5 is the long, long stretches of time at the beginning and between missions where it doesn't let you play any game Morgana being the bedtime police had a lot to do with that, so Royal probably alleviated that a LITTLE, but even with that improvement it'd still be a lowlight Gaius Marius posted:I think he's saying he can't transfer his save from vanilla to royal to start in ng+ Yeah, it was this, I wanted to glide through all my social links without having to worry about social stats because I barely got to finish any of them my first time through. I might have underestimated the number of new things in P5R though
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Jun 4, 2020 13:19
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Regarding my money issue, though, is there an accepted best method for money grinding in this game or am I stuck grinding trash mobs in Mementos and shaking them down at gunpoint?
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Jun 4, 2020 14:20
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loquacius posted:Regarding my money issue, though, is there an accepted best method for money grinding in this game or am I stuck grinding trash mobs in Mementos and shaking them down at gunpoint? Money Reading from Chihaya before you go into a Palace / Mementos. You'll be up to your ears in no time. Always go for knock downs, always squeeze it out of Shadows as much as possible, and try to All-Out Attack for finishers.
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Jun 4, 2020 14:23
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HaB posted:Money Reading from Chihaya before you go into a Palace / Mementos. You'll be up to your ears in no time. Always go for knock downs, always squeeze it out of Shadows as much as possible, and try to All-Out Attack for finishers. Also, if you have Chariot’s ability to instakill trash mobs if you run into them dashing, that counts as an All-Out Attack kill for the money bonus.
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Jun 4, 2020 14:28
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HaB posted:Money Reading from Chihaya before you go into a Palace / Mementos. You'll be up to your ears in no time. Always go for knock downs, always squeeze it out of Shadows as much as possible, and try to All-Out Attack for finishers. Does an All-Out Attack always get you more money than just demanding money does? I've never really been clear on this. Also I looked around and found a way to cheese yourself some quick cash but it requires a request boss to still be alive and uh that is not the case for me right now lol
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Jun 4, 2020 14:35
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yeah you should be swimming in it from june onward once you blitz fortune to 3, but if you have chariot at 7, you can dash through everything that cons green in mementos and get many thousands of yen for absolutely no effort once you combine the two you'll be unstoppable, for the early bit definitely just abuse instakill on green con stuff you can get to respawn even if you're not in mementos
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Jun 4, 2020 14:37
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loquacius posted:Does an All-Out Attack always get you more money than just demanding money does? I've never really been clear on this. you can brute force some good money out of request bosses that are vulnerable to pulinpa, and just waste turns hoping they dump it out the all-out attack bonus is, without fortune around, just killing all the enemies. The instakill thing counts as an all-out attack, so it gets the bonus from that, but without it, you're still getting all the money you'd get from that encounter, and for 0 effort other than clicking through the results screen. mugging enemies for cash can be worth it on occasion, but usually i only bothered when I was talking to them anyway and knew they had a lot of money, and didn't mind provoking them by just asking until they attack, since they're worth more as fusion fodder in any case
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Jun 4, 2020 14:40
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I've never actually used any of Chihaya's readings, didn't realize this one was so busted. Thanks guys 
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Jun 4, 2020 14:40
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loquacius posted:Does an All-Out Attack always get you more money than just demanding money does? I've never really been clear on this. Its less that it gets you more money, but doing the instakill with Chihaya's money fortune is waaaaaaaay faster than getting into a battle, doing the knock downs and then shaking your enemies down for cash. Also I'm not sure that quick cash trick is still feasible in Royal, they changed how status ailments work in Royal so they don't last as long.
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Jun 4, 2020 14:40
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loquacius posted:I've never actually used any of Chihaya's readings, didn't realize this one was so busted. Thanks guys the affinity one is super useful too, if you know a confidant isn't going to rank up on your next meeting with them, she can bump it up without spending time and hopefully get it to the next rankup event later on the celestial reading she gives is also super useful because fusion alarms are fun
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Jun 4, 2020 14:42
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