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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Was Lovecraft a normal racist by 1920s standards, or was he a turboracist? turboracist
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Jun 20, 2020 00:48
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Was Lovecraft a normal racist by 1920s standards, or was he a turboracist? He was so racist he could barely walk down the street without being driven into a fit of frothing rage and terror by the existence of black people Other, contemporary racists were driven to reconsider their views after listening to him
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Jun 20, 2020 01:10
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Crane Fist posted:Other, contemporary racists were driven to reconsider their views after listening to him I need details on this.
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Jun 20, 2020 03:42
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Viola the Mad posted:I need details on this. I want to say it was Robert E. Howard, or maybe August Derleth who corresponded with him and was basically like wow is that what we sound like? Maybe this whole miscegenation panic is a bit ridiculous?? I'm phone posting at work but I'll have a better look later
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Jun 20, 2020 03:57
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So how long until Lovecraft's cat makes an appearance?
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Jun 20, 2020 04:34
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BisbyWorl posted:So how long until Lovecraft's cat makes an appearance? oh no. oh nooooo they wouldn't
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Jun 20, 2020 04:46
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Crane Fist posted:oh no. oh nooooo You look Coaly Willie in the eye and tell me otherwise.
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Jun 20, 2020 08:32
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Attack of the KKKultists One thing I do want to impress on all of you is that Lovecraft's word is incredibly racist in a way that can't easily be separated from the cosmic horror. Take the Call of Cthulhu - the narrator frames three separate incidents that basically consist of him sitting in his basement and reading papers. Said papers describe a cult with people described as "mongrels" whose destruction is imperative, and the story closes with the narrator panicking because now the scary black people are going to murder him next, because if the black people take control all morality will be cast aside. Really! The moral is that if you're adapting Lovecraft, you need to do work on actually stripping on the racist implications, because they are standing right next to every monster and sorcerer he throws at his self-inserts. Unfortunately, the developers didn't bother doing this. I found this interview with the creative director, where he says that his influences are all poo poo like Vampire the Masquerade (I can tell!) and Planescape: Torment (really?). There's no attempt to read Edgar Allen Poe, Ambrose Bierce, or even Lovecraft's friends and correspondents like Robert Bloch, Robert E Howard, or anyone else who contributed to the mythos to try to derive some kind of horror theme or even to read Lovecraft deeply and try to apply the themes of insignificance. It's all just an ineffectual regurgitation of a surface reading, which is how you get crap like this! KKKultists! Exposition! An astounding lack of creativity! Pissing on the last wishes of a dying man!
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Jun 21, 2020 23:00
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Mh. Don't have anything particularly special to add this time. Folks who haven't read the update yet, go check it out first, etc etc. -Didn't see a spoiler policy, so... You never have to interact with Willy again. Ever. You are free of him, but unfortunately not Stygian. --Technically players never have to interact in the first place, but that isn't something players investigating every clickable are likely to ignore, either. This will be coming up later, unfortunately. -The whisperer in darkness bit was... Completely lost on me, for having not read it in the first place  --Same with the rustic man. This does give the problem where, instead of rolling eyes at the intended wink wink, nudge nudge remember this?, I just end up staring blankly at this stranger walking up to give me paper and wander off again. -The fellows book is (barely) useful! Slightly for context, mechanically negligible. Other than a bit of experience, I think it's a quick look at snippets of stories that won't help anyone unfamiliar with the stories they are referencing, and even less useful for people who are. -In hindsight rather surprised there isn't an option to intervene, given the beginners trap with the key earlier. --Why would this be a trap, you might wonder? ---Somehow unsurprisingly there is a reputation system for a few factions. Namely, the Cult, the Mob, and a third I don't recall. I believe they can only go down, typically when you anger them in some manner. I feel it's a safe guess that getting a sufficiently bad reputation is a gameover.
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Jun 22, 2020 01:02
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Honestly, depicting Cthulhu cultists as the KKK But Red is ok in my book. Of course Lovecraft based his cultists on his turboracist fears, but, well, "violent, degenerate cult of madmen" fits the KKK a lot better than it does the black community. I mean this is a meme for a reason. By the way, what are your thoughts on Lovecraft's writing in general, EvilKing? I'm kinda getting a love-hate relationship vibe.
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Jun 22, 2020 01:47
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Viola the Mad posted:By the way, what are your thoughts on Lovecraft's writing in general, EvilKing? I'm kinda getting a love-hate relationship vibe. I like the ideas of a vast and uncaring cosmos populated by ancient horrors and sorcerers and crap that you can just kind of stumble into when you take a wrong turn, and that you can fight them to stave off doomsday. Lovecraft's prose is terrible and relies on shotgunning adjectives in the vain hope that one lands and all of his stuff is intricately bound up with racism to the point that half the horror is hiding in a basement from black people. EDIT: This said, what I probably hate more is most of the derivative media based off the tabletop RPGs where there's a ton of emphasis on how you couldn't possibly fight a seafood monster when in most of Lovecraft's work, standing and fighting is the superior option. Darkest Dungeon gets better than, at least, this game. TheGreatEvilKing fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 02:27
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:I like the ideas of a vast and uncaring cosmos populated by ancient horrors and sorcerers and crap that you can just kind of stumble into when you take a wrong turn, and that you can fight them to stave off doomsday. I'll agree, its always bugged me how in TTRPGs and video games based off of HPL trying to shoot the things is useless despite like 85% of his stories getting solved by someone either killing the thing, doing magic at it or at the very least confronting the monster. Also how sanity works in those derivatives bug me a lot. In HPL's work you don't go 'oof ow owch im insane and will now hump my couch now' from seeing the giant squid man and his cool theme park-resort island. You freak the gently caress out and have a panic attack or an existential crisis. The long term affects are close to what we would now call PTSD, now early Call of Cthulhu's embarssing list of phobias and philias or something like schizophrenia or bipolar or whatever. And with characters like Randolph Hearst (or whatever his last name is), we see that it is possible to get used and acclimated to the mythos just fine. Elsewise homie wouldn't be doing donuts on nightgaunts and hanging out with moon cats and ghouls.
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Jun 22, 2020 04:33
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Doesn't one of his stories end by dumping hcl on a monster? Literally killing a cosmic horror with pool chemicals.
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Jun 22, 2020 05:16
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So what I'm getting out of this is that there is a lot of cool concepts in Lovecraft that are rich with potential for horror and/or killing monsters with shotguns, but the actual stories he wrote are too bogged down by his flaws as a writer. This might explain why In the Mountains of Madness didn't leave a strong impression on me. ...So are there any good stories written by other people that use those cosmic horrors well? Profoundly alien creatures have fascinated me for some time, which is why I've occasionally considered a foray into Lovecraft. But I don't know enough to be able to filter the good from the bad.
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Jun 22, 2020 05:33
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Viola the Mad posted:So what I'm getting out of this is that there is a lot of cool concepts in Lovecraft that are rich with potential for horror and/or killing monsters with shotguns, but the actual stories he wrote are too bogged down by his flaws as a writer. This might explain why In the Mountains of Madness didn't leave a strong impression on me. I would recommend The Ballad of Black Tom https://smile.amazon.com/Ballad-Bla...92800880&sr=8-1 it is a retelling of The Horror at Red Hook. Second recommendation would be Lovecraft Country, which has been adapted by HBO and will be debuting in August. https://smile.amazon.com/Lovecraft-...ps%2C267&sr=8-1
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Jun 22, 2020 05:45
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Viola the Mad posted:So what I'm getting out of this is that there is a lot of cool concepts in Lovecraft that are rich with potential for horror and/or killing monsters with shotguns, but the actual stories he wrote are too bogged down by his flaws as a writer. This might explain why In the Mountains of Madness didn't leave a strong impression on me. If you want a decent Lovecraft horror story, I'd suggest The Colour Out Of Space. As for modern adaptations, it's kind of tricky - there's loads and loads of books with Lovecraftian monsters, but not as many with Lovecraftian ideas. I'll second The Ballad of Black Tom because it is excellent and ties into the idea that "what Lovecraft was really afraid of was a world where the white man wasn't on top". Lovecraft country gets a resounding "meh". It kind of tries to do the same thing, but neither the horror nor themes do much past scratching the surface. That's addressing Lovecraft-related issues, but there are comparably few actual transitions of his themes (fear of the unknown, mostly) to the modern age. If your takeway from Lovecraft is "the world is governed by unknown forces that hate/don't give a drat about humanity", Thomas Ligotti is your man. Don't expect to meet Cthulhu and his friends, but he evokes the same existential dread Lovecraft dreamt of writing. For a pulpier take, try Blindsight by Peter Watts or Unto Leviathan/Ship of Fools (one name in UK, one in the US, don't remember which is which) by Richard Paul Russo. Both are technically science-fiction, both are set in the future, both deal with scientifically advanced civilizations encountering something behind their capability to undestand and the horror that brings Blindsight in particular uses a lot of scientific jargon to disguise the fear, much in the way we would likely deal with catastrophical events today. One option could also be A Colder War by Charles Stross, which basically does what Lovecraft did - express a fear of the unknown via monsters - and applies it to the Cold War fear of mutually assured destruction. Also I'm fairly sure it can be found free on the Internet. e: If you want more recs, just step through my gang tag. It leads to an interesting place. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 07:44
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Viola the Mad posted:So what I'm getting out of this is that there is a lot of cool concepts in Lovecraft that are rich with potential for horror and/or killing monsters with shotguns, but the actual stories he wrote are too bogged down by his flaws as a writer. This might explain why In the Mountains of Madness didn't leave a strong impression on me. Seconding the recommendation of A Colder War. It's worth a look, it's not a long read but it's worth it. His Laundry Files series is worth checking out, it's set inside the British bureaucracy set up to combat the Lovecraftian horrors banging around the universe. If you just want to read some Lovecraft read The Colour out of Space and The Rats in the Walls and stop there
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Jun 22, 2020 08:04
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Crane Fist posted:His Laundry Files series is worth checking out, it's set inside the British bureaucracy set up to combat the Lovecraftian horrors banging around the universe. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Jun 22, 2020 |
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Jun 22, 2020 08:35
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Huh, I actually liked At the Mountains of Madness. But I'm a sucker for polar/antarctic exploration stuff, I've always thought it was really neat. I even liked that one Alien vs Predator movie where they fight in the pyramid trapped under the ice, even though it was stupid as hell. If I had to pick a favorite Lovecraft story, I'd choose The Music of Erich Zann. It's very short and doesn't really connect to the rest of his mythos, but I always thought it did a better job of portraying the whole "indescribable cosmic horror" shtick than Cthulhu and company anyway. And it's framed like a ghost story, which I also liked. It's still written in melodramatic Lovecraft prose, so adjust your expectations accordingly, but I enjoyed this one.
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Jun 22, 2020 08:44
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As one of Lovecrafts main theme's is "Man, the insignifcant" and "Powerless in the Face of the Uncaring Superlative", am I the only one who feels like it's kind of kafka-esque? Powers beyond your control or keen, machinations at random that only make sense for the initiated, the feeling that one is but a cog in the machine of a mill grinding down human life and misery? Other than that, I liked some of the lovecraftian inspired movies, "Colour out of Space", "In the Mouth of Madness", that kind of stuff. On the Pen&Paper and book front, Lovecraft quickly becomes a very weird shoot-yourself-in-the-foot-kind of game. I should know, I ran "Beyond the Mountains of Madness"....*shivers*
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Jun 22, 2020 09:01
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anilEhilated posted:I didn't mention it because it's not exactly horror; the first couple books are just Stross putting on styles of different authors and having fun with the Lovecraft mythos and then it basically becomes standard urban fantasy. Good if you just want to have entertaining romps with Lovecraftian trappings. Yeah that's fair, the very first one is almost a modern day retelling of At the Mountains of Madness and then it kind of wanders into "what if you were the IT guy at Miskatonic" which is fun and novel to me, having never had an indoor job in my life
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Jun 22, 2020 09:57
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I will also recommend Moby Dick, as the fundamental unknown of Moby Dick is part of the novel. Pay attention to Ishmael's interludes- they're not just random crap to pad out the page count, they're Ishmael trying and failing to intellectually grasp Moby Dick and the doomed voyage. Moby Dick is also one of Lovecraft's inspirations.
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Jun 22, 2020 15:50
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"Why's it gotta be white?!" - H.P. Lovecraft, probably
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Jun 22, 2020 15:53
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Hwurmp posted:"Why's it gotta be white?!" - H.P. Lovecraft, probably Boy has the chapter called "Whiteness" have a surprise for you!
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Jun 22, 2020 17:21
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Also check out Clarke Ashton Smith. He was a contemporary of Lovecraft and wrote in the same kinds of settings but played a lot more with the genre. The Seven Geases, for example, is a cosmic horror-comedy.
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Jun 22, 2020 19:58
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With the recent relevations this LP goes on hiatus until we figure out where everyone is going or the admins buy out Lowtax or something.
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Jun 25, 2020 01:55
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:With the recent relevations this LP goes on hiatus until we figure out where everyone is going or the admins buy out Lowtax or something. Looks like lots of SA LPs are on https://www.lp.zone these days.
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Jun 25, 2020 12:45
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A bunch of LPers here got together and made https://lpbeach.co.uk/ for a new LP forum - it's got the same admins as this subforum, even. Still under construction, but it's got the basics now (and pages, so no infinite scrolling). Also, a whole slew of old names suddenly reappeared there after jumping ship well before the current drama. Like slowbeef.
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Jun 25, 2020 13:42
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This is probably going on the Beach once I back up all the images and their image hosting is up.
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Jun 25, 2020 15:46
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Shei-kun posted:A bunch of LPers here got together and made https://lpbeach.co.uk/ for a new LP forum - it's got the same admins as this subforum, even. Still under construction, but it's got the basics now (and pages, so no infinite scrolling). Oh, nice. I just hope the whole community picks one site to move to, it would kill me to see us scattered to the winds. e. EvilKing, if/when you start posting this LP elsewhere, will you post the link here?
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Jun 25, 2020 18:34
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Viola the Mad posted:Oh, nice. I just hope the whole community picks one site to move to, it would kill me to see us scattered to the winds. That was the plan!
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Jun 25, 2020 18:45
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It's not unoriginality, it's CANON! So with the sale of the site to Jeffrey I feel better resuming this LP. DO NOT GIVE MONEY TO LOWTAX! In the unlikely event you want to get me an avatar or something, I accept silly MS Paint fan art. Aliens! Blatant Allusions! Mobsters! Dark Magic! Random curses! People accosting us on the street! Trying to cuckold HP Lovecraft!
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Jul 6, 2020 06:33
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This sucks! It's loving stupid and I hate it! I'm actually starting to like other games more just because they're not this! Tides of Numenera, all is forgiven '
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Jul 6, 2020 08:04
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Did the devs ever actually talked about the cut content or are those just kickstarter promises that weren't delivered on?
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Jul 6, 2020 08:11
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anilEhilated posted:Did the devs ever actually talked about the cut content or are those just kickstarter promises that weren't delivered on? Worse. They actually had the system up and running in the game and had to cut it after release because it broke their fuckawful spaghetti code. https://steamcommunity.com/games/779290/announcements/detail/2992010505929847539
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Jul 6, 2020 08:25
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I can't help but notice the patch also added... manual saving? As opposed to being a checkpoint-only RPG? This game just keeps on giving.
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Jul 6, 2020 08:42
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Oh, uh. Let me dust off my brain for a moment... Ahem. Read the update first, etc. For those short on time, I'll tldr up front: I've not much insightful commentary this go around. Lines in small font like this, are especially trivial. ===  ===-I suppose I must've been glossing over the rustic man as everything else. Par for the course by now. I'm not terribly surprised we can't point out the fellow saying the rustic man serves him instead of his employers. Another missed opportunity, skillcheck or otherwise, for the bucket. ...And our new/old contact having the subtlety of a noise-maker coated brick sent flying through the windows of a bubblewrap factory. -It's Richter! ...I honestly don't recall if we've been here yet. Anyways, Humanists, think that was the generic 'good' aligned option, can grouse about Richter selling people cocaine/opium/other addictive substance. Richter rolls his eyes or I think has you leave the shop if you push the matter. Might have a snarkier line for humanists when you ask to see stock, and two different lines depending on your characters age for when you ask about real medicine. Oh, right. As mentioned, Victor has drugs. Plenty of them, though I've never bothered with more than the healing basics and a bit for some extra oomph when needed. Pricey plus not typically worth the bother of risking addiction. S'also some blueprints for I believe, yes, more drugs and materials for players to craft their own drugs if they also have the recipes/skill to do so. -Krogh! TheGreatEvilKing pretty much covered what my commentary would've covered already. RIP spell upgrade system, you brought use to a variety of junk items that now only exist to be sold for smokes. An extra shame Krogh isn't a potential partymember, they really seem like a good fit and delegating one of the better (for stygian) characters to a corner vendor who curses you is a shame. -That said, it probably wouldnt work out in the long run, one way or another. -...Uhhhh. There was also an interaction here where you can offer Krogh I think opium or some other drug. Might've kept you from getting cursed, but it really isn't worth the bother. -Partymember #2, uh... Sonia, right. Probably not getting them confused with someone else. -They're ok, I guess. You can change her weapon out, I suppose? -  -Yep. Mourning lady. Humanistic's probably offer kind words or somesuch. Moving on. -Oh, hey. I was wrong, it turns out I do have something to say on the distillery. You can indeed get through with Medicine, I think speech also works. If you can it's worth it just to spare yourself the bother and get more experience later. Stealth also supposedly works, but I question the wisdom of getting good enough at sneaking to do so. Folks who actually read through these longposts might remember me bringing up a reputation system a while back. Assuming it isn't bugged, a generous assumption at this point, fighting the mob like this should have damaged your reputation with the mob. The solution? Wear a mask. Any mask, really. Ancient mask? Stereotypical Bank Robber mask? That creepy bathing(?) mask Richter has to sell for some inexplicable reason? Yep, they all work just fine. ...Assuming that isn't bugged. Might have to check that later. You get different dialogue where it would matter, anyways. === ===Hoo, that was somehow wordier than expected. Now I actually do have a question instead of yet more rambling for once. What's this about a demonologist archetype? It rings a bell, but I don't remember it being in the game at all. Was it mentioned on the kickstarter page? Sounds more fun/useful than the occultists who aren't even the best mages. Arcanuse fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Jul 6, 2020 |
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Jul 6, 2020 09:37
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The demonologist occultist got to start with Children of Pazuzu as one of their starting spells. They seem to have been removed from the game before I got it. Pity. I saw it in a few guides but cannot seem to find it now. I've also never had this fight give me Enemy of the Mob - I assume its because we left no survivors and the character we are about to meet gets blamed.
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Jul 6, 2020 16:02
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Was the game balanced around not having spell upgrades for occultists?
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Jul 6, 2020 16:48
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Hypocrisy posted:Was the game balanced around not having spell upgrades for occultists? No, and they left all the upgrade components in the game. Its nuts!
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Jul 6, 2020 17:28
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