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evilweasel posted:see, again, you keep your claims at a very high level because once you start elaborating they make no sense at all. like, try reasoning out the actual steps involved in your theory, and you quickly find that you are making bizzaro, nonsensical, claims. the chain of logic does not hold, so whenever you are invited to delve into your theory you retreat into just an airy restatement of your claim and trying to avoid any further questioning on it. And lastly, here's how this works: 1. Trump becomes ascendant in the GOP and the rubes now run the party. 2. George Conway, Bill Kristol, and the billionaires and ghouls they front for are horrified. This is a genuine threat to their interests because those rubes aren't supposed to be in charge, and the people in charge aren't supposed to believe the bullshit they feed the rubes to keep them riled up. poo poo, even the president is eating the bullshit now! This sucks! 3. Strategy Session: Who's more open to our message? The GOP base, who's been openly told by their current leadership that our wing of the party and our most-recent president (GW Bush) were disastrous for us; or a Democratic party full of simps who will fall over themselves applauding us if we say the most basic-rear end Turmp Bad poo poo? Let's find out, let's send out a few test balloons. Bill and George, get on that. 4. It turns out, they simp harder than we could have ever imagined. These liberals are loving suckers. Let's see how far we can go. 5. The ads are working! And Biden, our absolute #1 choice for the dem candidacy won! This is great guys. 6. Let's get some KPIs set up for our powerpoint after the election. 7. [election happens] 8. We get a meeting with Joe and are able to show our powerpoint that says we swung the needle in some of those swing states for him and his (conservative Dem) candidates we supported! 9. We get some more op eds written, and maybe Leonard Leo gets an advance look at the list of RBG's possible replacements (not to sway the list, just to poison the well against any unacceptably progressive possibilities) 10. Sky's the limit, but our lobbyists don't seem to be having any trouble getting meetings with Dems they previously didn't need to talk to, and we now represent the new, expanded right boundary of the Democratic party. That's just a basic strategy. Trust these guys have a 100 page doc they've been working over for months going into much more depth. But to act like they aren't doing that is loving absurd.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:24
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https://twitter.com/WFPBLifer/status/1288489035350962176?s=20
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Jul 29, 2020 16:26
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selec posted:And lastly, here's how this works: Friend, you're literally writing project Lincoln fanfic at this point. The whole thing is just as easily explained by "Mitt Romney and his buddies have a lot of money, and we can get some of it."
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Jul 29, 2020 16:28
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Verisimilidude posted:I know a lot of poo poo is probably bad in its own way in other countries, but the way things are currently going in the US my gf and I are heavily considering trying out a few different places abroad to GTFO of this awful country. Her family did it with Chile when Pinochet took over, so we already have historical precedent for fleeing terrible regimes. My plan was to have been preparing to leave right now. It is next to impossible to get out of the US right now unless you fly private in which restrictions do not really apply. But if you have the money and means to do so I don't think you have much to worry about.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:29
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Space Gopher posted:They're planning to be best buds with the Mitt Romney wing of the party, and be very well-paid for it. Yeah, it's this. They're trying to create a brand within the party and the first step is to trash the Trumpian wing and the tea party wing. Once they get to step two, we can just tell them to take their binders full of women and union busting and gently caress off.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:29
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cr0y posted:Cool, cool
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Jul 29, 2020 16:30
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Youth Decay posted:Unfortunately it's increasingly hard to find a (sane) country that's willing to take plague-ridden Americans. As the situation worsens here more places will cut us off to keep the pandemic from spreading back to them. Yeah, we probably wouldn't be able to do anything for at least a year and we're hoping the travel ban will be over by then. 2021 we're hoping to try a month in Italy and a month in Barcelona.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:30
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Rigel posted:I don't think you guys spent time listening to the leaders talk about their motivations. (Normally why would we, except if the topic itself is their motivation, then I guess it becomes relevant then) And yeah, they don't normally let their guard down unless they think they are talking to other Republicans, but they occasionally do. there's ample stuff about the lincoln project folks talking about their motivations, because many of them are press hungry the thing is, even if you think they're lying (and they might be), lies have a goal. when someone is lying, they're generally trying to achieve a goal. so when you say they're lying you need to have a coherent explanation for why. sometimes it's trivial: many trump lies are just to feel better about himself for the next fifteen seconds. but when you're basically alleging a multi-year conspiracy to achieve a specific political end, you're alleging carefully considered lies with specific means they seek to achieve. and the thing is, there's never really a coherent explanation for why the lincoln project folks would be lying to say the things they do, that makes sense in the context of a plan to remain part of the republican party. you can claim they're morons, but then you're abandoning the dangerous conspiracy tack. you can claim they're lying to themselves, but then it's not really a conscious lie - they at least think they believe it - and the thing about lying to yourself is you tend to convince yourself more and more. again, the cynical view of what they're trying to do is they're trying to become media personalities. many more people know who rick wilson, george conway, and steve schmidt are now than knew them 4 years ago. if they want to play that angle, their goal is to at least appear to be repentant and to appear to stay that way. it does not make sense as a scheme to take power in the republican party to spend a lot of time and money attacking the very people you would need as allies to take over the republican party and reform it however you think they want to reform it.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:31
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Space Gopher posted:Friend, you're literally writing project Lincoln fanfic at this point. I guess we’ll have to see then.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:32
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Like nobody is advocating for giving them money, you just love to see the turmoil. That the GOP feels the need to do a bunch of soul searching isn't good because they'll find the light (they won't), it's good because it's indicative that the party's brand is fractured.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:32
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https://twitter.com/mykalmphoto/status/1288456089621667848?s=20
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Jul 29, 2020 16:32
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What makes the Lincoln Project stuff nice to see is that it appeals to exactly the demographic Trump needs to win: reluctant evangelicals who don't like him but feel obligated to vote Republican. Those are also exactly the people y'all don't want the DNC to target. Ideally, the more these guys do it, the less the DNC will feel obligated to. It's not about welcoming them into the fold. The whole point is that these guys might manage to convince die-hard conservatives who will never become liberals to still vote against Trump.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:33
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Space Gopher posted:Friend, you're literally writing project Lincoln fanfic at this point. yeah i get the view they're cynically lining their own pockets and/ore just media hounds. that would certainly fit the facts., and i have no reason to doubt it is at least a big motivator.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:34
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Why is school starting in July?
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Jul 29, 2020 16:35
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*penciling in Avon, IN as the next COVID hotspot to emerge in the coming few weeks*
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Jul 29, 2020 16:37
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I like how this is all a cynical ploy to scare suburban white voters who Trump lost last election into the idea the country is falling apart and it needs Big Strong Daddy to protect them from Those People.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:37
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Is there any polling on operation legend yet?
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Jul 29, 2020 16:40
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I like how this is all a cynical ploy to scare suburban white voters who Trump lost last election into the idea the country is falling apart and it needs Big Strong Daddy to protect them from Those People. funniest thing is its not even working because BLM and such have become acceptible to the mainstream(should have always been but lol) and enough footage of fed pigs smashing soccer moms and vets as well as black bagging in different cities isnt helping him with anyone outside of the base.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:40
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Groovelord Neato posted:Why is school starting in July? America is weird https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/14/back-to-school-dates-u-s/
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Jul 29, 2020 16:40
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Groovelord Neato posted:Why is school starting in July? In a lot of places in Indiana they get out in the first weeks of May and go back at the end of July/first week of August. I do not know why but I know my nieces got 6 weeks of summer vacation last year. The schools in many districts do not do many days off, Christmas in one was Christmas Eve, Day and Boxing Day and then New Years Eve and Day. I assume it has to do with Indiana being a poor state and most parents use the schools as day care so they only give the days off that parents would also have.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:41
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gently caress, I feel terrible for the kindergartners who are getting their very first taste of "real" school except nobody can go near each other and everyone has to cover their faces and all the teachers are scared. Doesn't matter how cute they try to make the facemasks, kids can tell when something's really wrong.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:41
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Djarum posted:In a lot of places in Indiana they get out in the first weeks of May and go back at the end of July/first week of August. I do not know why but I know my nieces got 6 weeks of summer vacation last year. The schools in many districts do not do many days off, Christmas in one was Christmas Eve, Day and Boxing Day and then New Years Eve and Day. Jesus schools starting before Labor Day was already deranged but loving July? You're still in the heart of summer.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:42
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Calling people paid protesters after Sandy Hook didn't play very well iirc, I can't imagine saying it about moms and vets is going to play much better.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:44
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evilweasel posted:there's ample stuff about the lincoln project folks talking about their motivations, because many of them are press hungry Their motivation in my view is very simple, and I've heard Rick articulate this. You may have bought into your current take which may be hard to shake, but consider the possibility that this is true instead. I concede there is a moral "Trump is bad for America" (or their typical patriotic view of America being "good" in the world anyway) that they want to destroy for its own sake, and this is a large part of why they are going after Senators too. That I believe is purely a moral issue on why the cowards who enabled him have to be punished too. Its not ALL fully 100% a cynical political plot. But it mostly is. They believe Trumpism is long-term a loser, and if the GOP becomes a Trumpist cult, then the party is effectively dead and we likely have single-party rule for a while. (held back a bit by Senate and SCOTUS, of course) From here, you believe they are then trying to switch parties and pull the Dems to the right, but that is not an option. They are not stupid, they see the demographic/political trends with the generations just as easily as we can. They know drat well that the Democrats are going to be yanked far to the left for quite a while, and if there is no credible opposition party, then thats where the country goes. They are trying to kill Trump with fire so that the GOP can dust itself off and put up a fight against what they see as extreme Democratic socialism that WILL be coming from the left, hopefully by 2028 at the latest. Thats it. Hell, they even call themselves the principled conservatives, they aren't trying to switch. Rigel fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 16:45
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There's...something about those cities....something I can't quite put my finger on....
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Jul 29, 2020 16:46
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They’re moving out (allegedly) https://twitter.com/bymikebaker/status/1288497644801679360?s=21
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Jul 29, 2020 16:47
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Groovelord Neato posted:Jesus schools starting before Labor Day was already deranged but loving July? You're still in the heart of summer. You couple that with many of the schools not having air conditioning either. I remember being sent home early from school because it got too hot and that was 25 years ago. I don't know if they still do that now.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:49
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Youth Decay posted:gently caress, I feel terrible for the kindergartners who are getting their very first taste of "real" school except nobody can go near each other and everyone has to cover their faces and all the teachers are scared. Doesn't matter how cute they try to make the facemasks, kids can tell when something's really wrong. Yeah, I feel really bad for the bullies who can't give kids swirlies anymore.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:50
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Why not? Their work is done, now that they've proven that cops can black bag citizens without any meaningful consequences the local cops can take over.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:50
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Was just coming to post this (oops forgot I had the wrong thing on the clipboard) https://twitter.com/OregonGovBrown/status/1288497308733018113
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Jul 29, 2020 16:51
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FlamingLiberal posted:They’re moving out (allegedly) If this headline gets blasted across FOX News, then Trump may throw a fit and reverse it.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:51
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FlamingLiberal posted:They’re moving out (allegedly) It's going to be great when the amount of violence and conflict drops after they leave and Donnie will declare he's restored LAWN ORDER when actually it was the CBP gestapo that was fomenting unrest all along.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:51
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There is some wild fan fiction going on here. The Lincoln Project is a grift. Again, worst case scenario is they end up selling their donor list or using it to back a Republican later. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lincoln_Project quote:The Center for Responsive Politics, a campaign-finance watchdog group, wrote that (like most PACs)[49] most of the Lincoln Project's money went to pay subcontractors, "making it difficult to follow the money" to vendors, and that "almost all" of the money raised went to firms run by the group's board members, specifically Galen's Summit Strategic Communications and Steslow's Tusk Digital.[14] They are just funnelling money to themselves. Their exit strategy is to make money.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:51
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selec posted:9. We get some more op eds written, and maybe Leonard Leo gets an advance look at the list of RBG's possible replacements (not to sway the list, just to poison the well against any unacceptably progressive possibilities) as was already said this is nonsense fanfic, and again you're making the odd decision that your cynical view of a small group of people would be lying for long-term ideological reasons instead of short-term personal gain. but this in particular is crazy and demonstrates how you're not really thinking through things. leonard leo could give you a list, today, of RBG's possible replacements if biden won. he could probably rattle it off from the top of his head. so could most people in washington who care a lot about the supreme court (either republican, democrat, or other). it's not hard, it's appeals court judges or state supreme court judges in a certain age range (40-50, maybe a little over 50 but not much), with political connections, impeccable credentials, and who have no public scandals or reasons to believe there might be one non-public. the only stuff about a list like that that would be non-public is people who the biden admin's vetting operation had found something on that crossed them off the list (e.g. a good candidate on paper has had an affair that is not public). even then, there's a good chance the federalist society has an idea about those sort of things through the grapevine even if they don't have hard evidence. democrats have never really had the problem republicans do with their judges ideologically drifting, so the ideological vetting side is much less intense: what you see is basically what you get. why that happens is a very interesting question and probably has a lot to do with "republican legal ideology makes no drat sense whatsoever", but that it happens is very well established at this point.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:51
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FlamingLiberal posted:They’re moving out (allegedly) I really just do not think anyone not already rabidly in the cult base is FOR these deployments. I mean you want to unite EVERYONE from Progressives to anarchic Libertarians and every non-cult member in between against you, keep this black bagging unmarked van poo poo up. This is some 90s level X-Files type poo poo and I really don't get the impression anyone but CHUDs is for it? I mean folks here mentioned Twitter comments but I really have a tough time taking anything on there too seriously as a representation of actual popular opinion. Just thinking out loud.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:52
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Djarum posted:You couple that with many of the schools not having air conditioning either. I remember being sent home early from school because it got too hot and that was 25 years ago. I don't know if they still do that now. Most of them have wizened up to global warming and put AC in at this point.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:53
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VH4Ever posted:I really just do not think anyone not already rabidly in the cult base is FOR these deployments. I mean you want to unite EVERYONE from Progressives to anarchic Libertarians and every non-cult member in between against you, keep this black bagging unmarked van poo poo up. This is some 90s level X-Files type poo poo and I really don't get the impression anyone but CHUDs is for it? I mean folks here mentioned Twitter comments but I really have a tough time taking anything on there too seriously as a representation of actual popular opinion. I mean yes? Overtly fascist tactics don't tend to be democratically encouraged. But also they don't give a gently caress because they own the people who count the votes.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:56
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evilweasel posted:they want to be part of the business wing of the democratic party, that's better than them being part of the business wing of the republican party It actually isn't? Why do we need GWB-strain Republicans? Do you not remember all the poo poo they got up to? We are in the midst of several (normally) once-in-lifetime crises and the solutions require running as far left in economic and social policy as possible as fast as we can. Welcoming a bunch of "compassionate conservatives" into the Democratic Party will be a huge hindrance to that, given how much time and energy are already going to be expended trying to push Biden left despite his own personal opposition, and the resistance from his donors and cabinet. People keep making this "well we need to bring people on the other side into the liberal/progressive tent in order to build power" and never actually discussing what that power gets used for. It sure as hell hasn't been used to improve the lives of Americans on a broad scale in my lifetime, except when the people on charge have absolutely no choice but to do so and even then they half-rear end it.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:56
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Youth Decay posted:gently caress, I feel terrible for the kindergartners who are getting their very first taste of "real" school except nobody can go near each other and everyone has to cover their faces and all the teachers are scared. Doesn't matter how cute they try to make the facemasks, kids can tell when something's really wrong. Just wait until the teachers start dying, the kids bring home ‘rona to their parents, grandparents etc. The psychological impact of that is far worse than kids missing 6 months of school. Opening the schools is a completely stupid idea and will just kill tons of people and spread the disease unnecessarily. We’ll never get this stabilized at this rate.
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Jul 29, 2020 16:56
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Heads up: The talking point now is that Operation Legend uses authority granted by Obama so it's his fault
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Jul 29, 2020 16:57
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