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John has a full arc and growth through the course of the movie, too, and it dovetails with the film's overall journey and message. Furlong does a really good job of communicating all that. I just wish the film hadn't completely ruined his life. Interestingly, if you listen to the Aliens commentary track, with Gale Anne Hurd, who did the casting for both movies, she remarks that Newt's actress got out of the film industry very early (in fact, Aliens is her only credited role) with something approaching relief. Wonder if that might be due to Furlong, who i think she discovered.
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Aug 7, 2020 01:41
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What are some of the worst things about Hollywood for child actors (genuinely asking). I'm thinking disgusting exploitation, gross predators who should be in jail, insane parents... but I'm sure there's way more to it.
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Aug 7, 2020 09:59
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Snowman_McK posted:John has a full arc and growth through the course of the movie, too, and it dovetails with the film's overall journey and message. Furlong does a really good job of communicating all that. I just wish the film hadn't completely ruined his life. Interestingly, if you listen to the Aliens commentary track, with Gale Anne Hurd, who did the casting for both movies, she remarks that Newt's actress got out of the film industry very early (in fact, Aliens is her only credited role) with something approaching relief. Wonder if that might be due to Furlong, who i think she discovered. Aliens came out before Terminator 2 though... Edit, never mind your talking about Hurds thoughts on both movies.
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Aug 7, 2020 17:42
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GlassEye-Boy posted:Aliens came out before Terminator 2 though... Well the commentary track was recorded years later so Hurd was probably just talking about how she feels about it in hindsight.
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Aug 7, 2020 17:44
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:What are some of the worst things about Hollywood for child actors (genuinely asking). Mara Wilson, who was a pretty successful child actor in the 90s, wrote an article about it for cracked a while back. The story that i remember is the one about one of her co-stars essentially being the only breadwinner in the household.
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Aug 8, 2020 05:43
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- Solid chance your guardian mismanages your finances - Increasingly obvious there's some kind of pedophile ring - You join Hollywood because it's your family business, not because you want to, so there's basically no point in your life where you experience normalcy, and drug use comes up frequently
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Aug 8, 2020 11:36
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I struggle to think of any child actors who turned out okay. Maybe Christian Bale and Natalie Portman? Though the former is apparently an emotionally unstable weirdo and the latter had parents who basically didn't let her act for like a decade after their experience working with renowned creeper Luc Besson on the Professional as well as rightfully recoiling from the attention brought on by that movie. The entire industry needs an overhaul and/or scouring before it can be safe for kids, essentially.
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Aug 8, 2020 15:47
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Even if you had good parents and didn’t get raped etc there’s the basic element that you’re a child with a job, and by and large child actors are either tv actors or supporting so it’s like...a full time job when you’re 6
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Aug 8, 2020 17:33
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Wow, Dark Fate really isn't very good at all. It's insane that they effectively removed the time travel stuff from the Terminator story, so it's pretty much just a fantasy movie about metal elves and wizards.
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Aug 8, 2020 21:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Wow, Dark Fate really isn't very good at all. Ok I haven’t watched it, should I just to see what’s going on or
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Aug 8, 2020 21:51
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DeimosRising posted:Ok I haven’t watched it, should I just to see what’s going on or It's less essential than even T3, adding nothing to the series and actually retconning the more interesting parts out. It coasts entirely on familiarity with the other films, yet still barely functions as a narrative. Also, the cinematography is the weakest to date, and the editing is bad.
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Aug 9, 2020 00:32
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's less essential than even T3, adding nothing to the series and actually retconning the more interesting parts out. It coasts entirely on familiarity with the other films, yet still barely functions as a narrative. i have better things to do with my life. thanks for the save
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Aug 9, 2020 00:53
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's less essential than even T3, adding nothing to the series and actually retconning the more interesting parts out. It coasts entirely on familiarity with the other films, yet still barely functions as a narrative. I'd love to hear more because, yeah, the film felt weird and disjointed.
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Aug 9, 2020 01:33
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DeimosRising posted:i have better things to do with my life. thanks for the save I will say it‘s an interesting glimpse into an alternate universe where Terminator is lib horseshit. And I think it’ll be a fun puzzle to figure out what the hell the is even going on. Let’s break it down: The premise of the film (according to Sarah Connor) is that Skynet was 100% defeated back in 1992, with the bombing of Cyberdyne Systems and the sacrifice of Bob the robot. Sarah then effectively retires, only emerging periodically to fight the Cyberdyne robots that continue to regularly arrive from the future for the next three decades. We’re left to assume that, before its timeline was obliterated, Skynet just sent a bunch of Arnolds to random points across the past. Now, if you’re thinking at all, you might observe that Bob died to destroy the chip in his head so that Cyberdyne couldn’t possibly copy it - and now, with this retcon, there are possibly dozens of those chips scattered across all of history. Well, the good news is that this film doesn’t address that issue at all. In fact, everything I just wrote occurred offscreen and is only exposited to us. And the film ends with three different Terminator corpses lying around. Of course, you can redeem this silliness by concluding that the logic of the last 5 films is still in effect, and Skynet isn’t dead. But then, it also means that it’s impossible to figure out what’s going on. Possible explanations can include Woodley’s character being implanted with false memories, Carl the robot being behind it all, and more. There’s literally not enough information to reach any conclusions. In the meantime, there’s a single line about automation taking peoples’ jobs and the rest of the film uses the ‘new’ Skynet, Legion, as a metaphor for not the state apparatus itself but a derangement or corruption of it under Trump. The baddie is basically HYDRA from Captain America 2, to match the overall look of film.
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Aug 9, 2020 03:20
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The T2 T-800 really got a bum deal didn't he. Kills himself to make sure there's no more future tech lying around to create Skynet and immediately a bajillion more future robots pop in leaving their fancy computer chips lying around. Might as well have just stuck around so John has a cool robot dad.
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Aug 9, 2020 09:13
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I will say it‘s an interesting glimpse into an alternate universe where Terminator is lib horseshit.
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Aug 9, 2020 09:33
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:[I]t's pretty much just a fantasy movie about metal elves and wizards.  only seen it once/have to revisit/etc., but i recall 'dark fate' being bonkers awesome. perhaps *because* of how discordant it is to the rest of 'em?
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Aug 9, 2020 10:53
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jojoinnit posted:Only the best reviews open with this. Real talk: it was a fine action movie between Grace and the Rev-9. Arnold and Linda Hamilton were fine in it but weren't really necessary. I can't fault you for the time travel stuff, you're right how dumb it is. One of those things I assume was meant to make sense in the new trilogy that won't happen because it didn't do T2 numbers, same as Genesys. I think people have really been fooled into thinking the movie works because MacKenzie Davis puts in such a strong performance. But, outside of what the actor’s contribution, there’s not really much going on with the character. There’s basically just the implication that she loves Dani. And this is where the bad storytelling comes into play, because is this literally the same Dani or is it a younger alternate-universe version created through the act of time travel (as Sarah now insists)? Because that changes whether Dani is a ‘lover-with-amnesia’ sort of character or a daughter figure to Grace. When you don’t cleanly distinguish the two, you get some weird incestuousness that they don’t do anything with. Either that, or Grace just boringly loves Dani enough to die for her in a totally platonic way. It doesn’t help that the “augmented human gives their heart to the leader of the Resistance” thing is a straight rip from Terminator 4, where it was done much better. It also doesn’t help that the film’s actual protagonist is Sarah - and her entire relationship to Grace is effectively just that they’re both secretly receiving orders from Carl. Them being annoyed with eachother isn’t great drama. Even with the midcredit teaser and the minor mystery of where Pops came from, Genisys told a perfectly self-contained story. The same can’t be said here. If your film relies on the hope of making hundreds of millions of dollars of profit to be spent on a second explanatory film, it’s automatically a failure. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Aug 9, 2020 |
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Aug 9, 2020 18:28
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jojoinnit posted:Only the best reviews open with this. Real talk: it was a fine action movie It's completely forgettable, the only reason why people are even vaguely aware that it exists is because it's part of the Terminator franchise.
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Aug 9, 2020 19:06
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Qualia posted:isn't it great?! No.
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Aug 9, 2020 19:37
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Alhazred posted:It's completely forgettable, the only reason why people are even vaguely aware that it exists is because it's part of the Terminator franchise. Hard disagree. I think it was held back by needing to be included in the Terminator franchise. The ideas it has would have been way stronger if they'd been allowed to stand as their own thing. That's basically what I mean when I say Linda and Arnold were fine but unnecessary. I enjoyed them well enough but I'm also someone who enjoys Arnold just doing his thing in things. The Grace vs Rev-9 stuff could have been better in it's own world without story constraints. SuperMechagodzilla posted:I think people have really been fooled into thinking the movie works because MacKenzie Davis puts in such a strong performance. But, outside of what the actor’s contribution, there’s not really much going on with the character. There’s basically just the implication that she loves Dani. I honestly don't remember much about any of that and I didn't pick up any love undertones. I mostly remember it being a not great way to replace John Connor as mankind's saviour in the franchise. I can only recall the action stuff and that's what I went in wanting. quote:Even with the midcredit teaser and the minor mystery of where Pops came from, Genisys told a perfectly self-contained story. The same can’t be said here. If your film relies on the hope of making hundreds of millions of dollars of profit to be spent on a second explanatory film, it’s automatically a failure. Genisys had a T1000 in 1984 that never got brought up again. It was so clearly throwing in sequel things, it was in absolutely no way self contained. (That's just the first thing that's come to mind but I have no doubt if I looked I'd find 100 more to bring up). T3 was way more self contained. Genisys might actually be the worst self contained but I also haven't seen 4 since my initial viewing when it came out.
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Aug 9, 2020 20:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Even with the midcredit teaser and the minor mystery of where Pops came from, Genisys told a perfectly self-contained story. The same can’t be said here. If your film relies on the hope of making hundreds of millions of dollars of profit to be spent on a second explanatory film, it’s automatically a failure. This is one of the fun things about Genisys playing around with the idea that timelines shifting makes all the travelers refugees. There being some robot that showed up to protect Sarah Connor from an unknown future is all part of the general chaos. Whereas in Dark Fate, while it leaves out plenty of information you'd think we'd want to know, it's never presented as a result of time travel being fundamentally inexplicable. Legion is definitively "not Skynet." There's a certainty to things even as they remain vague. Like, it's mentioned above the movie would do better with "the ideas it has" if it wasn't part of the franchise, but I honestly couldn't tell you what ideas Dark Fate is supposed to be working with. Everything I like about it is in the places where the execution is what's good: MacKenzie Davis is compelling and the fight in the auto factory is a lot of fun. But Genisys was by far the most interesting of the post-Cameron movies as a time-travel story and Dark Fate easily the worst. Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Aug 9, 2020 |
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Aug 9, 2020 20:29
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Sir Kodiak posted:Like, it's mentioned above the movie would do better with "the ideas it has" if it wasn't part of the franchise, but I honestly couldn't tell you what ideas Dark Fate is supposed to be working with. That’s where the lib horseshit comes in. All previous Terminator films - including T2 - are based on the idea that capitalism will inevitably bring about the apocalypse. That’s why the overall story is structured around the modifiable loop: we can improve things in minor ways, but we also need to keep our eyes on the big picture and not forget that our enemy is the capitalist system itself. Genisys even evokes the spectre of a good-guy Communist Skynet working tirelessly to defeat the bad-guy Capitalist Skynet. In switching from this schema to the new one, where characters randomly pop in from infinite possible futures, Dark Fate stands for a political regression into mere gradualism. In the universe of its protagonists, blowing up the evil Cyberdyne corporation was enough to bring about a thirty-year peace. Everybody just settled down into a comfortable routine - including Arnold - until ICE appears as a new fascist danger that we must deal with to restore normalcy. In other words, Dark Fate is overtly about defending the capitalist system against the occasional excessive outbursts of specific immoral companies and government agencies. We’ve gone from how T2 criticizes Sarah for merely blowing up computer companies, to Sarah now just cleaning up the debris from the Cyberdyne explosion. At the end of the film, nobody’s worried about Legion anymore. Dani pretty much just shrugs and says that the hell-world Grace appeared from won’t exist now that they’ve become aware of it. Crisis averted! Let’s move on to the next episode. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Aug 10, 2020 |
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Aug 10, 2020 00:16
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the only good terminator 2 sequel is The One starring jet li and jason statham
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Aug 10, 2020 02:47
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The good Terminator sequels are Salvation, Genisys, and Judgment Day. In that order.
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Aug 10, 2020 03:21
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p.sure it's awesome precisely because of it's incredulitySuperMechagodzilla posted:At the end of the film, nobody’s worried about Legion anymore. Dani pretty much just shrugs and says that the hell-world Grace appeared from won’t exist now that they’ve become aware of it. Crisis averted! SuperMechagodzilla posted:Dark Fate is overtly about defending the capitalist system against the occasional excessive outbursts of specific immoral companies and government agencies. We’ve gone from how T2 criticizes Sarah for merely blowing up computer companies, to Sarah now just cleaning up the debris from the Cyberdyne explosion.
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Aug 10, 2020 03:47
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jojoinnit posted:Hard disagree. I think it was held back by needing to be included in the Terminator franchise. The ideas it has would have been way stronger if they'd been allowed to stand as their own thing. What unique ideas did it have though? IT was basically just a retelling of T2.
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Aug 10, 2020 12:03
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Alhazred posted:What unique ideas did it have though? IT was basically just a retelling of T2. I found the Rev-9 an interesting idea, Grace was a good character and their fights were the best parts. The idea of a future ai seeding history to ensure ise own existence has something to it. I think it was just hamstrung by needing to fit into the Terminator concepts. Dani's entire story was John Connors but in no way did the movie retell T2 because the movie wasn't told from Dani's perspective and didn't give her the arc, or even Graces perspective. Certainly not the way T2 told John Connors story. It was too tied to Linda and Arnie, and while I enjoyed them, the other half of the movie felt like it would have had stronger potential to breathe and become more without them. I didn't say it had anything unique, I said it had things that could have been more interesting if explored on their own.
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Aug 10, 2020 17:08
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jojoinnit posted:I found the Rev-9 an interesting idea, Grace was a good character and their fights were the best parts. The idea of a future ai seeding history to ensure ise own existence has something to it. I think it was just hamstrung by needing to fit into the Terminator concepts. Dani's entire story was John Connors but in no way did the movie retell T2 because the movie wasn't told from Dani's perspective and didn't give her the arc, or even Graces perspective. Certainly not the way T2 told John Connors story. It was too tied to Linda and Arnie, and while I enjoyed them, the other half of the movie felt like it would have had stronger potential to breathe and become more without them. I didn't say it had anything unique, I said it had things that could have been more interesting if explored on their own. The catch-22 is whether the non-Terminator version of this movie would even have gotten a greenlight from a decent studio. It'd be considered a T2 rip-off either way, whether it's directly tied to the franchise or not. Would Dark Fate, the SyFy original, have fared any better?
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Aug 10, 2020 17:21
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If Dark Fate weren’t an official Terminator brand movie, then the multiple opening sequences explaining what the movie isn’t about would be even more egregious. Like, take any random movie and add ten minutes explaining that an alien invasion didn’t occur in this universe. Also a kid gets shot, and then we get teams of exposition about he was supposed to be the messiah but then it turns out he wasn’t the messiah, but the baddies killed him anyways because they were like “eh, whatever”.... Also, what’s interesting about the Revelation-9? Is it that he’s literally named after the bible chapter he’s a direct reference to? (Did Legion name him that?)
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Aug 10, 2020 18:03
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So if T2 ends with "no fate but what we make" and the possibility of a bright future is Dark Fate telling us that we must vigilant against an ever present evil future? It's not what fate we create for ourselves but that the future is inherently evil and must be continually stopped?
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Aug 10, 2020 18:07
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jojoinnit posted:The idea of a future ai seeding history to ensure ise own existence has something to it. Yeah. I guess I assumed you were talking about an idea new to the franchise, and that was a plot point in both Terminators 3 and Genisys. But you're not wrong that the best part of the movie is the, like, twenty to thirty minutes where neither Linda Hamilton or Arnold Schwarzenegger were in it (without placing the blame on the performers themselves).
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Aug 10, 2020 18:49
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Alhazred posted:What unique ideas did it have though? IT was basically just a retelling of T2. and yah, for real: when she falls down recreating that first movie nude slam, i was like woorrrdddd~! (i've only really seen all of the terminator movies like once maybe, so gonna have to marathon the six in a row at some point) i mean it's kinda cool - is it not? - to reintroduce the series with some meta poo poo to be like yo this would've been cool if terminator was a lady from the beginning (with like, duh, ps: capitalism, pay attention) Violator posted:So if T2 ends with "no fate but what we make" and the possibility of a bright future is Dark Fate telling us that we must vigilant against an ever present evil future? It's not what fate we create for ourselves but that the future is inherently evil and must be continually stopped?
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Aug 10, 2020 19:15
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Qualia posted:
No: 
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Aug 10, 2020 19:25
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In ten years I'm going to start telling people that Dark Fate not being about a young John Connor was originally an incredible twist that has since been spoiled by popular knowledge of the movie. The only potential stumbling block being the plausibility of that last bit.
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Aug 10, 2020 19:39
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Sir Kodiak posted:In ten years I'm going to start telling people that Dark Fate not being about a young John Connor was originally an incredible twist that has since been spoiled by popular knowledge of the movie. The only potential stumbling block being the plausibility of that last bit. Doesn't a movie have to be popular to be part of popular knowledge? I would be surprised if people even know about the movie in ten years.
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Aug 10, 2020 19:49
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Alhazred posted:Doesn't a movie have to be popular to be part of popular knowledge? I would be surprised if people even know about the movie in ten years.
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Aug 10, 2020 21:13
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Yeah, that's what I was getting at with the last sentence.
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Aug 10, 2020 22:16
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The weirdest thing about the movie to me was how Grace basically thinks Sarah is a nutjob because she claims she was the former mother of the messiah. It's a big claim, sure, but she also came out of nowhere and blew away the Rev-9 Terminator with an RPG. That and Sarah's comment about her 'just being a womb' or whatever which I thought had the writers miss the point entirely of her character.
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Aug 11, 2020 00:50
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Violator posted:So if T2 ends with "no fate but what we make" and the possibility of a bright future is Dark Fate telling us that we must vigilant against an ever present evil future? It's not what fate we create for ourselves but that the future is inherently evil and must be continually stopped? The keyword in “no fate but what we make” is the ‘but’. There’s no fate except for this particular fate. So there is a fate: it doesn’t matter how many computer factories Sarah blows up, because the robots already exist. She’s already met three of them, by the end of T2, and one even stabbed her in the shoulder. Somebody has to make those robots, because somebody already did. However, we can change who “somebody” is. After Cyberdyne is blown up, we can speculate that John Connor built a few copies of Arnold and sent them backwards in time to meet Sarah and avoid a paradox. This is the first inkling of Communist Skynet: “if a machine can learn the value of human life....” Sarah’s ‘sense of hope’ is predicated on the idea of angelic machines programmed to defend the meek. And, if we fail to bring about that Kingdom of God, then humanity will be hosed and we’ll have nobody to blame but ourselves. “No Fate” is a statement of both freedom and terrifying responsibility. It’s a ‘happy ending’, but not a ‘everybody retires at a resort somewhere’ ending. It means there’s a lot more work to be done. In Dark Fate, Sarah retires to a resort somewhere. She has zero worry about any sort of looming capitalist apocalypse and is really just sad that John died in a random accident. Carl was effectively just an unexploded landmine from a conflict that the characters continually insist is over and done. Sarah even straight-up says ‘we saved three billion people, what more do you want?’ - and nobody presents a counterargument. She could have just retired if it weren’t for those ICE nazis interrupting her vacation. (Here we can note that, if a T-800 automatically becomes human after learning that John is dead, Sarah‘s vacation has consisted of killing possibly dozens of innocent people over the span of two decades.) There is a line about a 75% chance of societal collapse even without a Legion, but it’s tossed off as a joke and the film’s only idea is to become a fuckin’ prepper. Systemic change isn’t possible, according to the wise robot, so load up on military-grade hardware to protect your family against looters. Again, nobody comments on this. We can visualize a Virgin Carl versus Chad Pops meme. Carl becomes a drape salesman to buy guns because he’s a libertarian. Pops becomes a construction worker in order to spend a decade infiltrating and sabotaging Applebook HQ.
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Aug 11, 2020 01:02
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