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Edgar Allen Ho posted:For those not in the know, GW released a modular gaming table which confirms that canonically, the Warhammer world is all skulls beneath the surface. I mean, duh, where else would they get them from? 
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Aug 13, 2020 17:26
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Gameplay question, how do you 'liberate' a dead faction? I just downloaded a mod that lets factions liberate any faction they so choose, so I can resurrect Kislev as Empire in an ME campaign. So how does one do it?
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Aug 13, 2020 19:43
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Once a faction is dead, if you try to take over / colonize an old city of theirs, you should have the option to liberate it. But this is generally tied to their starting regions. So you would have to find kislevs old capital and take it over. Instead of colonizing / capturing it, take the other option that says liberate.
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Aug 13, 2020 19:54
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Gameplay question, how do you 'liberate' a dead faction? I just downloaded a mod that lets factions liberate any faction they so choose, so I can resurrect Kislev as Empire in an ME campaign. So how does one do it? depends but a good way is to take an original territory of theirs and let it rebel. depending on corruption, the original faction should reappear.
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Aug 13, 2020 20:13
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Third World Reagan posted:Once a faction is dead, if you try to take over / colonize an old city of theirs, you should have the option to liberate it. 
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Aug 13, 2020 22:49
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Third World Reagan posted:Once a faction is dead, if you try to take over / colonize an old city of theirs, you should have the option to liberate it. Awesome, thanks, that's what I was hoping it was. I do know about the rebellion method, but that takes so long and also they hate you forever after it.
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Aug 13, 2020 22:57
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Just a reminder: Troy is free today on the Epic Games Store. https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/product/a-total-war-saga-troy/home And if you link your Total War Access account you can get Amazons later. https://www.totalwar.com/games/troy/amazons/ https://access.totalwar.com/auth/control_panel/?source=tws&next
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Aug 14, 2020 00:07
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Finally picked this up, now that my computer can handle it. Playing Teclis High Elves on H/H. Currently have 5 stacks of angry orange lizards streaming into South America. Problem is, they have a lot of dinos and my elves just cannot handle it -- my front line of spears/sea guard just gets mulched, without giving time to do any appreciable damage with arrows. Foot heroes/lords get bowled out of the way. And Gor-Rok himself seems unstoppable. I'm desperately trying to replace my front line with Phoenix Guard(?), but that's going to take a while. Anyone have any tips for dealing with the big dinosaurs until then?
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Aug 14, 2020 01:20
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Smiling Knight posted:Finally picked this up, now that my computer can handle it. Playing Teclis High Elves on H/H. Currently have 5 stacks of angry orange lizards streaming into South America. Problem is, they have a lot of dinos and my elves just cannot handle it -- my front line of spears/sea guard just gets mulched, without giving time to do any appreciable damage with arrows. Foot heroes/lords get bowled out of the way. And Gor-Rok himself seems unstoppable. I'm desperately trying to replace my front line with Phoenix Guard(?), but that's going to take a while. Anyone have any tips for dealing with the big dinosaurs until then? Turn them into allies and let them loose on your foes.
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Aug 14, 2020 01:27
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Kaiju Cage Match posted:Turn them into allies and let them loose on your foes. They hate me because of Vortex mechanics. I suppose I could dump all my ~400 influence bank on it? Can influence actually turn a foe of ~60 turns into an ally?
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Aug 14, 2020 01:40
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Obviously more archers
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Aug 14, 2020 01:43
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Smiling Knight posted:They hate me because of Vortex mechanics. I suppose I could dump all my ~400 influence bank on it? Can influence actually turn a foe of ~60 turns into an ally? Oh you're playing Vortex nevermind.
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Aug 14, 2020 01:56
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If you have the DLC for Avelorn the Sisters of Avelorn Archer unit will completely annihilate anything in the game. A full stack isn't that expensive either, they're only like 220 gold for upkeep. I don't think there's any army that can go up against a full stack of sisters of Avelorn formation and not get mauled at the least. Put them in a checkerboard formation and even top tier cavalry will have a hard time getting through them.
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Aug 14, 2020 02:02
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A less flippant answer - the problem you're likely running into (without more details) is that lizard frontline at the same tier generally have more HP, have high armor & good defense stats and many come shielded. e.g. Your T1 spearboys have better melee defense, worse attack, much worse HP, less armor compared to saurusboys. They eventually lose (and so do your seaguard who have similar melee stats to spearboys). In a same tier fight you need to delay that (slow) loss while your more killy stuff (aka archers & bolt throwers) kill (manually targeted at angles to do more damage against shields); alternately superior cavalry flanking. Meanwhile, you're also probably running into higher tier temple guards + anti-infantry stuff like kroxigors. If you're still running primary spearmen + archer + seaguard stacks (note that seaguard are slightly worse regular archers) you're completely outclassed quality wise (and completely lack AP damage). And that's before the single entity monsters line punching (note to stop that you need to go more depth to prevent the charge from going completely through). So what can you do to delay while getting mass upgrades? Non-AP archers still melt single/low entity monsters even with their high armor. Those need to be focused fired. Lizardmen SE/LE monsters also have low leadership as well, so they get taken out of the fight really quickly from focus fire. Your melee line needs to be more compressed to avoid hole punching in the meanwhile. Also a few SE units of your own can be very helpful in delaying, and after your archers free them up, do damage. And make sure after the SE are taken care of, your archers target the lowest armor units/unshielded stuff first. Also if you bait siege defenses, abandon the walls (unless you have T5 towers, which you probably don't) and use the streets near the capture point as your chokepoints. Wall defense is for suckers. lurksion fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 02:24
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Mustang posted:If you have the DLC for Avelorn the Sisters of Avelorn Archer unit will completely annihilate anything in the game. A full stack isn't that expensive either, they're only like 220 gold for upkeep. I found out they can't deal with AI Luthor Harkon bringing a full stack of ranged and artillery including 7 boat golems so keep an eye out for that
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Aug 14, 2020 03:39
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lurksion posted:Also if you bait siege defenses, abandon the walls (unless you have T5 towers, which you probably don't) and use the streets near the capture point as your chokepoints. Wall defense is for suckers. I keep hearing this but don't understand why. Why wouldn't you want to defend with added free ranged attacks hitting the enemy as they approach, and then have the enemy be exhausted as they climb ladders to the top of the wall? Even if they've got siege towers all it does it put them on even keel with your stuff defending the wall. Even just tier 3 Main Settlement walls add like, cannons to the defense. Honestly the only thing I don't like about siege defense other than it getting repetitive is the tendency of routing enemies to somehow be able to flee in the direction of the capture point.
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Aug 14, 2020 04:13
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ArchRanger posted:I keep hearing this but don't understand why. Why wouldn't you want to defend with added free ranged attacks hitting the enemy as they approach, and then have the enemy be exhausted as they climb ladders to the top of the wall? Even if they've got siege towers all it does it put them on even keel with your stuff defending the wall. Even just tier 3 Main Settlement walls add like, cannons to the defense. Three things mainly: 1) Having to spread out melee units to fight across the entire wall because the AI, given enough melee units, will attempt to get units on top of every section of wall. If said enemy has high-quality melee units and you don't, the raw stat difference might be good enough to beat your guys despite having to slog it through ranged fire and so on. 2) Fighting on the walls, or hell, just near them is pathfinding hell. Generally, unless you're playing on the smaller unit sizes, the pathfinding AI for both your units and the enemy units will just go to loving poo poo and it plays terribly, possibly leading to completely unnecessary and frustrating losses. 3) Camping the square leads to better chokepoints that a faction with the appropriate units/mechanics can take advantage of to much better effect. Can Dwarfs hold walls? Probably, but holding a street chokepoint could be better for them if they have Gyrocopters/bombers, Irondrakes, Flame Cannons, or even Grudge Throwers in play.
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Aug 14, 2020 04:28
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ArchRanger posted:I keep hearing this but don't understand why. Why wouldn't you want to defend with added free ranged attacks hitting the enemy as they approach, and then have the enemy be exhausted as they climb ladders to the top of the wall? Even if they've got siege towers all it does it put them on even keel with your stuff defending the wall. Even just tier 3 Main Settlement walls add like, cannons to the defense. A few reasons: the AI won't rest their troops after getting up the wall so they'll still be exhausted whether you fight them in the streets or on the wall. Their melee troops are likely better than yours, or at least outnumber yours, so fighting them with the smaller frontage that fighting in the streets affords let's you mass ranged to eliminate enemy units one by one. Forcing the enemy to cluster makes things like AoE attacks significantly more effective. By being off the walls, you can force the AI to split their army more than usual, to the point where their melee troops will be far ahead of their ranged, allowing you to kill one and then the other. Finally, nothing prevents you from using relatively fast infantry to get free shots from the towers off before retreating into the town itself as the ladders come up. The disparity is most noticeable with stuff like the Empire forts, but still noticeable for regular walled towns too.
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Aug 14, 2020 04:30
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Have your ranged or low tier melee sitting on the wall to have the towers firing as they approach and then retreat to the town center as they start docking the ladders on the walls so you don’t get cutoff by lovely path finding. If you only have a few units or don’t have a lot you want taking artillery damage on the walls drag out the unit during deployment (like you would to stretch out a unit on the battlefield) - you can have one unit cover an obscene amount of wall and hold like 4-6 towers simultaneously once they are single file on the walls edge. The morale buffs from fighting on the capture point/all bunched up and the one unit width streets means you can grind out a pretty ridiculous amount of troops with a garrison or small defending force.
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Aug 14, 2020 04:41
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And if you're still not sold, watch lgendtolwarhere do Eltharion's final battle on turn 4 by not touching the walls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmgLIc2O4IQ
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Aug 14, 2020 04:48
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In addition to all of the above, ranged units have a fixed, lovely firing arc when on the walls. You do not have the ability to focus fire. Also, ArchRanger posted:free ranged attacks hitting the enemy as they approach T5 towers do do enough damage where it is worth it to hold the walls a bit though. And there are some other cases, such as if the attacking army ends up monster or cavalry heavy and light on infantry, in which case they do end up sitting under the walls (instead of attacking the gate like they should do) while the regular dudes aren't numerous enough to take the wall fight quickly. lurksion fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 05:07
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Flavahbeast posted:I found out they can't deal with AI Luthor Harkon bringing a full stack of ranged and artillery including 7 boat golems so keep an eye out for that Why is Luthor the only guy who builds cheese stacks like that, maybe it's cause I only play on hard/hard. Even if I fight someone like the Dwarves when they're rank 1 they'll have balanced full stacks but Luthor loves to throw 19 Necrofexes at me
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Aug 14, 2020 05:13
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Doing a Hard difficulty Malekith Vortex campaign now (figure he's the DE impacted least by the lack of DLC, and was hoping I could dodge fighting Skaven). I'm about 20 turns in, and of course I'm back to fighting against Skaven after some fun elf battles. Weirdly, though, there is some neutral minor faction dwarf loed dude that showed up in the dark elf province I was half done invading (when the Skaven jumped me) with an army with four or five irondrakes and some explodo squigs. Seems nuts to deal with all those irondrakes now, but at least he seems content standing around in raid stance?
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Aug 14, 2020 05:17
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chaleski posted:Why is Luthor the only guy who builds cheese stacks like that, maybe it's cause I only play on hard/hard. Even if I fight someone like the Dwarves when they're rank 1 they'll have balanced full stacks but Luthor loves to throw 19 Necrofexes at me
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Aug 14, 2020 05:40
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I think vampirates do that because of their flagships. If I remember correctly you get access to necrofex from the main line on ships, which means there is a good chance an AI pirate, fresh off losing their army, is sitting on a mountain of money and can't really build anything else. With most factions, if you take their big settlements they can't build any worthwhile units and attack you with a stack of 19 mortars. Vampirates remain potentially dangerous till completely eliminated.
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Aug 14, 2020 07:00
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Vargs posted:Just a reminder: Troy is free today on the Epic Games Store. I played a little, I don't really have any interest in the game atm but I wanted a quick look. I haven't really played TOB or Three Kingdoms Battle maps are so much better than in WH2, it's crazy. I really hope some of that makes the jump to WH3. The game also seems a lot more optimised, everything just feels smoother, especially the strategic map.
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Aug 14, 2020 09:32
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kanonvandekempen posted:I played a little, I don't really have any interest in the game atm but I wanted a quick look. I haven't really played TOB or Three Kingdoms Yeah I've only just started but these are my observations too. No sieges yet, but regular battle maps are SO much better than in Warhammer 2. And turn times, loading and campaign map fps are all vastly superior on my machine compared to Vortex. Not fair to compare to the huge ME map I suppose. I'm gonna need to play with the resource system a lot more to decide how I feel about that though, but as someone who never really played historical Total Wars (I played Medieval 1 on release and remember nothing, and I tried Shogun 2 for like 90 minutes but bounced off hard) the campaign mechanics feel refreshingly robust coming from Warhammer 2. Trading regions! Seeing how the AI values different diplomatic deals! Option to try and strongarm poo poo if you really need to! Lots of building variety! Buildings that give negative public order modifiers so you don't just plant a +PO building and forget the whole thing! However; gently caress agents.
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Aug 14, 2020 13:43
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Insurrectionist posted:However; gently caress agents.
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Aug 14, 2020 13:58
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Ravenfood posted:A few reasons: the AI won't rest their troops after getting up the wall so they'll still be exhausted whether you fight them in the streets or on the wall. Their melee troops are likely better than yours, or at least outnumber yours, so fighting them with the smaller frontage that fighting in the streets affords let's you mass ranged to eliminate enemy units one by one. Forcing the enemy to cluster makes things like AoE attacks significantly more effective. By being off the walls, you can force the AI to split their army more than usual, to the point where their melee troops will be far ahead of their ranged, allowing you to kill one and then the other. Finally, nothing prevents you from using relatively fast infantry to get free shots from the towers off before retreating into the town itself as the ladders come up. Yeah, I showed a friend in a co-op campaign that by not even defending the walls in an Empire fort (I start with my garrison archer units on the walls, and then pull them back as soon as the enemy, usually orcs, gets to the walls), but instead putting Halberdiers with Greatsword backup on the main ramp, swordsmen on the ramps leading to the capture point, and pulling the archers back to the little elevated sections flanking the main ramp, you can defeat a greenskin army twice your size with less than 200~ losses each time. The AI will send flanking cavalry around the sides to get at the capture point/artillery stationed nearby, but they can be easily destroyed by the swordsmen with empire knights coming in from behind to smash the, and since they will retreat immediately to the edge right next to the final set of ramps, breaking them once is all you need to get them to leave the battle. I do remember one particularly fun fort battle where Skullsmashers attacked with 3 stacks. I saw it coming and sent Gotrek and Felix there, and had them recruit 5 ROR/State Troopers, including The Emperor's Wrath Steam Tank. I think their lord got down from the wall and was immediately killed by the Steam Tank + 3 units of crossbowmen. Also, the State Trooper Outriders are insane with their explosive grenade ability. They completely melt Vampire Count armies if there's no flying units to harass them. I think I killed 5 whole units of skeleton spearmen/grave guard before they even reached my line with just 2 special Outriders. Easily my favorite unit now. I did get Troy just because I heard that the diplomacy was really well done and the siege battles were way better, hoping if that's true than that gets imported to W3.
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Aug 14, 2020 14:22
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The diplomacy is just a couple of tweaks to hack in some of the more obvious advances in 3Ks diplomacy, so I would be very surprised if its not in WH3.
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Aug 14, 2020 16:42
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I got pretty far into Troy and it’s pretty great, but the resource system is cool and good and rules. The diplomacy as well, partially because of the resource system, is really great. But it has agents and holy gently caress are they annoying. The best thing about the resources is that it encourages you to actually care about minor provinces beyond positions. And then HOW you exploit the resource is great: do you use the high return building that cuts influence or cuts growth or cuts happiness or do you just get a no-frills resource exploitation that produces less but has no downside? Also only capitals get walls, and the diplomacy system is pretty dang reasonable. Cool tech demo (I wouldn’t have bought it). jokes fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 17:39
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Yeah wouldn't pay for it but it's got me excited for game 3.
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Aug 14, 2020 18:40
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It’s strange not having fliers and huge monsters but I have been enjoying it. Also Patroclus had it coming and Hector did nothing wrong.
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Aug 14, 2020 18:48
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Nash posted:It’s strange not having fliers and huge monsters but I have been enjoying it. This alone will make it hard to go back to a historical game. I want ratmen with machine guns and giant demons and dinosaurs.
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Aug 14, 2020 18:54
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I wasn’t a big fan of shogun 2 because all the units and armies felt very similar to me. I recognize it was a good game but just didn’t click with me. The similarity in units in Troy is there, but me personally be a fan of the story and time period waves a bit of that away. Still, I’ll be playing this and think “adding a t-rex to this would be awesome.”
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Aug 14, 2020 18:59
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Giant Horse Necrofex Colossus
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Aug 14, 2020 19:04
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Creative Assembly need to stop being cowards and give us a historical Total War game game but with outrageous mythical units and magic based on belief systems of the time Let me play Alexander the Great and he's as busted in melee combat as Grimgor
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Aug 14, 2020 19:08
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JT Jag posted:Let me play Alexander the Great and he's as busted in melee combat as Grimgor Only if he's 10 feet tall like Grimgor.
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Aug 14, 2020 19:10
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Rhjamiz posted:Giant Horse Necrofex Colossus 
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Aug 14, 2020 19:15
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Give me a Total War game but it's like Civilization and every area of the map is represented by a crazy, magical version of the most prolific society to historically live there
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Aug 14, 2020 19:19
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