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Rarity posted:Cause he was voting Sal for separate reasons based on his responses to pressure rather than for the slip itself. So where do you think scum were during that Sal push? Were they part of it or were they defending him? I think thats kind of a shallow justification for Merk's vote. Sal's reaction to getting called out on the mortal flavor/alignment thing feels like extreme frustration to me which I don't think is indicative of alignment. Of course a town player is going to be annoyed if the spotlight gets put on them early over a misunderstanding of flavor and alignment, and would you really expect them to have good scum reads? If he is town he is obviously going to be suspicious of people pushing for his lynch! Its for this reason I don't really think Merk's vote is "good" compared to the other votes. I am not saying it is a bad vote either, or that the other votes were bad, but I think it is suspicious that you called out Merk's vote as being good and it feels like you are covering for him. I agree with DGK that it feels like you and Merk have some kind of oot connection so could be scumbuddies or a masonry. I also don't like that your follow-up question to me assumes that the scum team or teams were all working in unison. Its possible that they coordinated to split positions and also possible they didn't engage in the Sal vote at all and were content to just sit back and let town kill itself.
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Sep 2, 2020 16:24
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Byers2142 posted:sos, since you're around and posting, who are your scum picks right now. Full disclosure, I'm asking because I have a vague good feeling about you and yet can only really remember setup talk with you, nothing more substantial about your alignment calls. Yesterday my picks were Dick Bastardly because I really didn't like his vote on you, and Sandwolf but that just a general feeling, it seemed like he was defending some people and I didn't understand why they needed to be defended. I need to go back and re-read though because all the stuff with Sal had kind of pushed Sandwolf out of my thinking. Today I am not liking Rarity and by association Merk. If the day were ending in the next hour I would vote DB or Rarity, but I am going to re-read the thread before the day ends.
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Sep 2, 2020 16:31
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I think scum are trending towards lurking rn I feel very good about: Humalong, Tommunist, Amnistar (in that order) I have spent much of the past few hours thinking about this Sal thing. On one hand, it felt like a lot of people came in, read him as frustrated town, and pushed momentum off. But there’s the unfortunate smattering of similarity to the recent game Horus Heresy, SNG was scum who floundered all D1, almost got lunched, and was saved at the last second. That’s not what happened here exactly, but Sal got to like -2 with a self vote. If Sal is town, why wouldn’t scum just put that over the top? There’s reasons, I understand, but I don’t know, scum usually don’t choose one town lunch over another D1. I’m still happy to lunch Tobbs too, or, anyone lurking, as I can only remember about half the player lists posts.
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Sep 2, 2020 16:35
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What’s the Rarity/merk thing y’all are talking about?
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Sep 2, 2020 16:36
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Hey Sal I just thought of something - since you already claimed would you mind telling us if you started with any influence? You said your ability at night was to drain influence from another player.
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Sep 2, 2020 16:42
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Sandwolf posted:What’s the Rarity/merk thing y’all are talking about? To me it just feels like Rarity is weirdly trying to boost Merk as town or something idk, like specifically calling his vote good when its just kind of neutral.
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Sep 2, 2020 16:44
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soscannonballs posted:To me it just feels like Rarity is weirdly trying to boost Merk as town or something idk, like specifically calling his vote good when its just kind of neutral. Eh I defend players who I think are Town all the time
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Sep 2, 2020 16:45
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soscannonballs posted:I also don't like that your follow-up question to me assumes that the scum team or teams were all working in unison. Its possible that they coordinated to split positions and also possible they didn't engage in the Sal vote at all and were content to just sit back and let town kill itself. Rarity posted:Oh yeah of course. It's super unlikely all the scum were on the vote but it's also super unlikely that none of the scum were on the vote. That's why I thought a vote analysis would be a good idea in the first place. Trying to find 1 scum in 10 is easier than 1 in 23.
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Sep 2, 2020 16:46
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sos, of course all those possibilities you mentioned could have happened but the point of mafia is that you read what's happened and make alignments calls based on what people have posted. Not just hold your hands up and go 'eh, it could be any of these I guess'.
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Sep 2, 2020 16:49
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DGK2000 posted:Something about Tobbs posting pings me, but I can't put my finger on it. I'm still pretty sure Rarity is scum. Toalpaz posted:##vote Tobbs we can do this!!! I'd love to see some actual casing, that way if I get mislunched my town flip will show who pushed it through on disingenuous "gut feels" versus those who actually care about my alignment.
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Sep 2, 2020 16:51
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Amnistar posted:In reading the thread this came back up in another quote and I realized that Merk misunderstood my point. If Sal is town, the people that moved off of Sal when the momentum died are where I would look for scum. If Sal is scum then the people that didn't move off of Sal when the momentum died are where I would look for scum. Thanks. I did misinterpret what you were saying.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:00
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Byers2142 posted:So I do want to make a special note here; workload is a problem we all run into, and while I want more from cheese what pings me is "I am not a sparkle vampire I don't think." There's no need for that deflection at the end of I think, cheese knows. The whole post is an excuse to not engage, but it goes past just the workload when cheese brings into doubt their own alignment. Pretty sure this was a just callback to cheese’s like first post joke about being a sparkle vampire.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:07
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I stand by my read of Sal not making that mistake as town, good with my vote.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:10
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Tobbs is aggressively pushing someone known to fold under pressure! An easy day one for scum indeed! Vote Tobbs Gnawed Today!@
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Sep 2, 2020 17:11
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Sandwolf posted:I have spent much of the past few hours thinking about this Sal thing. On one hand, it felt like a lot of people came in, read him as frustrated town, and pushed momentum off. I am placing myself more in the “Sal is frustrated town” camp after doing a fresh read. It seems real risky for scum to self-vote to -2 on D1, particularly in a game where it’s not unreasonable to think there may be more than one scum team. And his claimed ability of stealing influence doesn’t sound like something you’d make up to get out of a lynch, since the immediate reaction it prompted (not surprisingly) is that it doesn’t sound town.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:16
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SalTheBard posted:Uhh sure. Let me look at a less than 1 day old game. I can't get over this post. These reads are terrible (the one on me is demonstrably wrong) and Sal has no other reads. Sal is riding a claim and self vote to not be eliminated today. He did no scum hunting beyond a single post. He was here, active, and spiraling to save himself instead of actually hunt scum. What the hell are we doing? ##vote Sal
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Sep 2, 2020 17:17
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tpink posted:I am placing myself more in the “Sal is frustrated town” camp after doing a fresh read. It seems real risky for scum to self-vote to -2 on D1, particularly in a game where it’s not unreasonable to think there may be more than one scum team. And his claimed ability of stealing influence doesn’t sound like something you’d make up to get out of a lynch, since the immediate reaction it prompted (not surprisingly) is that it doesn’t sound town. I really do not like this read. It seems like you're hunting for whatever reason possible to say Sal is "frustrated town." If it's a gut read, it's a gut read. You're trumping it up here with reasons that do not make sense (setup speculation, a self vote with a full 24+ until deadline).
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Sep 2, 2020 17:18
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tpink posted:And his claimed ability of stealing influence doesn’t sound like something you’d make up to get out of a lynch, since the immediate reaction it prompted (not surprisingly) is that it doesn’t sound town. I'm not sure why you're making this point when you just played a game where SNG claimed jailer
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Sep 2, 2020 17:18
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soscannonballs posted:To me it just feels like Rarity is weirdly trying to boost Merk as town or something idk, like specifically calling his vote good when its just kind of neutral. There has been a couple of Rarity/Merk interactions and for the sake of clarity: merk posted:##vote Gumball Rarity posted:I can see how you get that but knowing GG from PSP he's got an analytical mind and game setup is the kind of thing I think would set it off _______________________ merk posted:I hate gotcha scum hunting and think people almost never scum slip. That said, I would like to see Sal's response. Rarity posted:White noise af post here merk posted:Read as: I won't vote Sal for that supposed scum slip; his response is way more important. Rarity posted:Gotcha. And what do you think of his response? (as far as I can tell, merk was unimpressed with Sal's response and voted for Sal, and subsequently dropped the Sal vote) __________________________ And Rarity vouches for merk when Sal posted his list: Rarity posted:merk: I'm leaning town so far. How is the Sandwolf interaction 'weird'? ____________________________ Of course Rarity also had this post, which struck me as scummy: Rarity posted:Bigger game, loads more posts, can't dig into things cause thread moves too fast, meta arguments are dumb. which to me just reads as a carte blanche for any suspect posting when Rarity's posting tone came up. ___________________________ I've read the arguments for and against deadline play and generally fall in favor of letting time pass and trying to use it, but understand the counterpoint and arguments. I do also want to point out that Rarity was the first in the door suggesting we hold off on Sal: Rarity posted:For anyone else wanting to vote Sal he's already on -3 and we probably don't wanna close the day early ___________________________ So, outside of your vote audit, where you essentially call everyone who voted for Sal scummy other than merk and Retro Futrist, in your own words: Rarity posted:Any actual thoughts on the game so far?
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Sep 2, 2020 17:19
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Toalpaz posted:Tobbs is aggressively pushing someone known to fold under pressure! An easy day one for scum indeed! Vote Tobbs Gnawed Today!@ I will read Tobbs now.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:19
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soscannonballs posted:To me it just feels like Rarity is weirdly trying to boost Merk as town or something idk, like specifically calling his vote good when its just kind of neutral. A common scum strategy to fit into my meta is to buddy up to me so I ignore you. However, I did not notice this. I will review when I get done reading Tobbs.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:20
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soscannonballs posted:I think thats kind of a shallow justification for Merk's vote. Sal's reaction to getting called out on the mortal flavor/alignment thing feels like extreme frustration to me which I don't think is indicative of alignment. Of course a town player is going to be annoyed if the spotlight gets put on them early over a misunderstanding of flavor and alignment, and would you really expect them to have good scum reads? If he is town he is obviously going to be suspicious of people pushing for his lynch! Its for this reason I don't really think Merk's vote is "good" compared to the other votes. I am not saying it is a bad vote either, or that the other votes were bad, but I think it is suspicious that you called out Merk's vote as being good and it feels like you are covering for him. I agree with DGK that it feels like you and Merk have some kind of oot connection so could be scumbuddies or a masonry. Merk literally could have used any response sal gave as justification for a vote. "Oh I think you're making it up so Im voting you!" "Oh that sounds scummy to me, voting you" etc. Toalpaz posted:Tobbs is aggressively pushing someone known to fold under pressure! An easy day one for scum indeed! Vote Tobbs Gnawed Today!@ I feel this tpink posted:I am placing myself more in the “Sal is frustrated town” camp after doing a fresh read. It seems real risky for scum to self-vote to -2 on D1, particularly in a game where it’s not unreasonable to think there may be more than one scum team. And his claimed ability of stealing influence doesn’t sound like something you’d make up to get out of a lynch, since the immediate reaction it prompted (not surprisingly) is that it doesn’t sound town. Having been in Sals position recently, and his history, I'm feeling he's town and a bad vote.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:20
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Going to stop at Michaels on my way home and get the push pins and red twine for my bedroom wall which is now for figuring out mafia
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Sep 2, 2020 17:20
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:For real though I read Sal again and he's still scum. His only reads were given under duress. I forget if he joke voted or not but I'm pretty sure he's not thrown down a serious vote. Correct. I'm done reading Tobbs. Town read.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:20
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GG, I just reread all your posts (which didn’t take long) and it’s like 90% setup spec chat and then just kind of lobbing questions to show participation:Gumball Gumption posted:How do you drain people of influence? Gumball Gumption posted:Do you have a guarantee beyond "And let god himself strike me down!" or do you just really like making definitive statements? I don’t want to vote you D1 if this is only your second game, but this isn’t exactly super pro-town playing.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:21
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merk posted:I really do not like this read. It seems like you're hunting for whatever reason possible to say Sal is "frustrated town." If it's a gut read, it's a gut read. You're trumping it up here with reasons that do not make sense (setup speculation, a self vote with a full 24+ until deadline). You know drat well that self-voting in anger is usually town, you've played with me.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:21
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Tobbs is continuing to push the guy who is going to flip scum in spite of the thread trying to get us to tuck that guy away as 'frustrated town' with made-up justifications.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:21
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DGK2000 posted:You know drat well that self-voting in anger is usually town, you've played with me. I have self voted as scum far more times than I have self voted as town. On day 1 with no other viable candidate, Sal played to emotions rather than scum hunt to save himself. It's working.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:22
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Rarity posted:I'm not sure why you're making this point when you just played a game where SNG claimed jailer Which was transparently bad. Jailer flat out sounded scummy there. Stealing influence for going into a porn store that sells snuff seems... pretty in line with Flynn.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:22
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merk posted:I have self voted as scum far more times than I have self voted as town. On day 1 with no other viable candidate, Sal played to emotions rather than scum hunt to save himself. It's working. Players and motivations exist outside of you.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:23
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tpink posted:Pretty sure this was a just callback to cheese’s like first post joke about being a sparkle vampire. It still stinks and this is exactly how cheese played as scum in their last game. If he shows up near deadline and makes a flurry of posts I absolutely want him voted out day 2.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:23
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Quick Rarity read: Why do you look like you're going out of your way to interact with me whenever you can in ways that don't really seem to matter?DGK2000 posted:Players and motivations exist outside of you. DGK2000 posted:You know drat well that self-voting in anger is usually town, you've played with me.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:24
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merk posted:I really do not like this read. It seems like you're hunting for whatever reason possible to say Sal is "frustrated town." If it's a gut read, it's a gut read. You're trumping it up here with reasons that do not make sense (setup speculation, a self vote with a full 24+ until deadline). ?? I don’t think there’s anything controversial in pointing out that it’s a real big risk for scum to self vote to -2 when there’s a lot of heat on them already. The other thing I said is that the power claim doesn’t sound to me like a claim that scum would make to avoid a lynch. If you disagree with me, fine, but I don’t think it’s a nonsensical thing to say.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:24
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ShallNoiseUpon posted:So, outside of your vote audit, where you essentially call everyone who voted for Sal scummy other than merk and Retro Futrist, in your own words: Read the game, friend. I'm the top poster in the thread, I think I've made my opinions so far pretty clear. Spoiler: my top reads before the Sal drama were Byers and tpink and I'll be looking them over again before deadline too
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Sep 2, 2020 17:25
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Rarity also doesn't have many alignment calls. That might not be a bad vote.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:25
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merk posted:Quick Rarity read: Why do you look like you're going out of your way to interact with me whenever you can in ways that don't really seem to matter? Fair point. I brought up the rarity stuff before and you didn't respond, did you not read the posts?
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Sep 2, 2020 17:25
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A self-vote is intrinsically and explicitly anti-town regardless of the voter’s actual alignment.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:26
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Rarity posted:Read the game, friend. I'm the top poster in the thread, I think I've made my opinions so far pretty clear. I literally predicted she was going to do this
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Sep 2, 2020 17:26
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tpink posted:?? I don’t think there’s anything controversial in pointing out that it’s a real big risk for scum to self vote to -2 when there’s a lot of heat on them already. First, discard the setup speculation thing. Scum probably have fake claims. In a game where flavor matters (and Sal resisted claiming flavor for exactly this reason), you're going to have to use your fake claim when you need to claim. Next, we had over 24 hours left to deadline and no other viable candidate was forming. Sal showed up to the thread and self voted to try to get this exact reaction from the thread.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:26
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DGK2000 posted:Fair point. I brought up the rarity stuff before and you didn't respond, did you not read the posts? I'm catching up.
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Sep 2, 2020 17:26
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