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Imo you are right but also its good to be extremely cautious and worried. Just not to the point of collapsing in despair. I highly, highly recommend people take breaks from this stuff when they can. It really helps with your mental health and your ability to keep dealing with poo poo.
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Sep 7, 2020 11:02
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Like. I have to post this time and time again because the new doomposters come in and it's like. Ok. Reality check. Donald Trump is not some all powerful figure. He only even is still in office right now because republicans are terrified of their constituents but privately hate the guy. The idea he has some iron grip is laughable. He's transparently corrupt and incompetent, neurotic. He's weak. And everyone but the 30% of americans who like him know it. Even he knows it. Anyone in a position of strength doesn't try to suggest delaying elections. Which got completely shot down by his own party. Or a variety of other things in the past. This isn't some tinpot dictatorship where speaking up gets you and your family shot or else I couldn't be making this post. Yes. People are getting hurt in the streets. But it's not like police are systemically killing protesters. Over policing? You bet. And I mean... Hundreds of thousands of americans just had protests and riots in every state and territory over the on television murder of a black man for literally no reason. And the police were -absolutely overwhelmed.- Trump openly trying to create an imperial presidency and jail opposition or crazy poo poo? When people are actually tuned in? That's when the riots really begin. Military leadership has already explicitly said they're not supporting donald trump except for their constitutional duties. Firing on and mass incarceration of american citizens is against their oaths. If Joe Biden wins the election on Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 they will be following his orders. And lastly. Say the police support him. Say DHS goes to bat for Trump. The fact is the largest political organization in the country is the democratic party. And one of the leaders of that is Barack Hussein Obama. D&D is hard on Obama's record and rightfully so. But at the end of the day he is a political statesman and has the knowledge, experience, and popularity to lead the country. Hate him all you want but he's significantly more popular than Donald Trump or really any possible presidential candidate right now and I have no question he could cast down any would be king's aspirations as long as he's alive. So no. This doomposting and fear mongering is dumb to me. Am I saying it can't happen? Absolutely not. It's important to think about. But realize too that our political and economic system relies on democratic ideals and disrupting that disrupts the money spigot that elites enjoy so much. An incompetent, unstable, and stagnant imperial presidency is not in their best interests and anyone with half a brain knows that. Right now it's all working because Trump might be skirting the rules but everyone else realizes this is not normal and actively trying to keep things as stable as possible. He has to attack the edges like postal service. The center is too strong. Edit: gently caress it. We'll do it live.  I'm confident that most of america is done with Donald Trump. Joe Biden will be the next president of the united states.
Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 11:14
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Lol sure bud, the thing keeping America from going over the edge is the DNC and Obama.
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Sep 7, 2020 11:54
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Bottom Liner posted:Lol sure bud, the thing keeping America from going over the edge is the DNC and Obama. Eh. Not the DNC. More the point is the majority of this country is democratic party. I absolutely believe if Trump openly attempted a takeover that Obama and those who support him would be a strong impediment to his ascendency. Whatever criticism we have of the man's policies I think he's shown himself to be a genuinely good person. And if we collectively actually needed him to be leader again to save America I'm confident he'd do it. But we don't.
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Sep 7, 2020 12:10
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Eh. Not the DNC. More the point is the majority of this country is democratic party. A lot of people around here think Trump is better than Obama because Trump is  anti-war and Obama guzzles down the blood of innocent children. These arguments have had to be struck down countless times here. Good luck convincing people here that Obama has an ethical bone in his whole body let alone that he's a good person.
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Sep 7, 2020 12:30
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The danger isn't that Biden will be elected and Trump will refuse to leave. The danger is that Trump will gently caress with the election by encouraging militias to suppress the vote by showing up at polling places or gently caress with the vote by sending armed chuds to surround (or worse, storm) the places where votes are counted. If things get even worse, he could send his little green men to shut down vote counting in blue areas of purple states. Stop counting the votes in those places, declare victory, and when it goes to court, rerun Bush v. Gore, only with more street violence. This is why Biden has to not just win, but crush Trump. A huge margin of victory would keep that kind of loving around at the edges from working.
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Sep 7, 2020 12:34
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Eh. Not the DNC. More the point is the majority of this country is democratic party. Is this post from 2015 or something? It was already revealed that Obama knew that Trump was bankrolled by the Russian mafia right after the election and decided to not do anything even after it was shown that he had literally cheated to win. I don’t think the guy who went kite surfing during the tumultuous first weeks of the Trump presidency would ever come to your political rescue, but that’s just me. Maria Juana fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 12:50
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After 4 years of him, you’d have to be a moron not to see that trump is indeed a fascist and wants fascism in the US. However, despite how obvious it was to me in 2016, there was an incredible amount of people who would roll their eyes when someone said Donald was a saying fascist things, and his whole political project and impetus was really kinda fascist too. Even discounting the complete idiots who thinks it can’t be a fascist unless it’s a goose stepping, sieg heil’ing, swastika wearing, 1940s time traveler, and furthermore: “(adjusts glasses) ashukually, by calling modern things fascist you are demeaning the people who died in the kz-camps”. Even discounting them, there was a large amount of otherwise reasonable people, who just didn’t realize that that was indeed what early fascism looks like. This thread was full of them. It’s similar to the people who weren’t sure he was actually being racist, and also “Racist is such an overused word, not everyone is racist. The kkk they are racist, trump just doesn’t want criminals from other countries, blah, blah, blah”. Turns out, no, like we said; he actually is a huge racist and a loving disgusting fascist piece of poo poo. It’s like only by the grace of his incredible incompetence and his insistence on hiring his own degenerate spawn and other incompetent idiots because of nepotism, that it’s not a lot worse than it is. Give the competent (for a trump employee) Barr and his ‘If anything, the problem with the law is that it is built-in biased against discrimination’ line a few more years and it’ll actually crumble.
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Sep 7, 2020 12:50
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BiggerBoat posted:But I mean it NEVER loving fails to take up at least 5 pages in any thread I find remotely interesting. I enjoy eating too, I really do, and find it necessary in order to live but this board just never loving quits with it.
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Sep 7, 2020 12:58
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ANIME AKBAR posted:For some reason the first thing that pops into my head when I hear "gender reveal party" is some sort of coming-out-of-the-closet party. I thought the same thing, and my immediate reaction was “well poo poo, chuds are gonna do an anti-trans pogrom now huh” Then I realized what it actually meant and ... I’m still worried because chuds aren’t known for thinking through things and realizing their gut reactions are wrong
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Sep 7, 2020 13:00
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I think a lot of people, even really smart logical people, have trouble reconciling what seem to be two conflicting ideas in their head: That Trump is a dangerous authoritarian who is openly bringing fascism to America, and that he is a weak, incompetent and narcissistic leader. It seems difficult at times to believe that both things can be true, because when people think about the dystopian police state they imagine it's like 1984 or the popularized image of Nazi Germany -- this kind of jackbooted, hyper-efficient, all-encompassing regime that controls everyone's thoughts. But you don't have to be all that smart or even good at your job to be a fascist. Indeed, the only historical examples we have of its leaders collectively represent some of the dumbest and most pathetic specimens of humanity on planet earth. You don't have to control every post office or polling center in the country to meaningfully alter the election results. You don't have to even have to win your election to do irreparable damage to electoral politics. All you need to instill fascism is an unending willingness to do harm and nobody to stop you. It doesn't have to happen overnight, and it doesn't have to be efficient. You just have to be cruel.
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Sep 7, 2020 13:04
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Eric Cantonese posted:October then? A vaccine rushed through trials and delivered to a schedule intended to influence an election by an anti-vaxxer whose office has continuously published false documents for political advantage? When all the public data on the vaccine trials shows that none of them should be ready until early next year? Eh. You first.
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Sep 7, 2020 13:10
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Eh. Not the DNC. More the point is the majority of this country is democratic party. This is staggeringly naive.
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Sep 7, 2020 13:20
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Fart Amplifier posted:Trump went on live TV and said that the US needed to kill the families of terrorists and build a wall to keep out Mexicans. If you can't look at obvious fascism and care enough to vote against it, you're part of the problem. Those are bad examples because Obama had been killing the families of terrorists and building more border fencing throughout his entire presidency.
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Sep 7, 2020 13:25
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Blind Rasputin posted:Rembrandt's long lost masterpiece, "The Blue Wave"  Ah, how fortunate are we to bear witness to one of the greatest.
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Sep 7, 2020 13:31
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Maria Juana posted:Is this post from 2015 or something? It was already revealed that Obama knew that Trump was bankrolled by the Russian mafia right after the election and decided to not do anything even after it was shown that he had literally cheated to win. Because a president interfering with the election of a political rival absolutely wouldn't come out and cause a significant backlash. Say...Wasn't a recent president actually impeached in the house for trying to solicit foreign help in elections? I don't think people realize Trump undermines institutions and trust in things because he's so weak outside his shrinking republican base it's literally the only way to hold on to power.
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Sep 7, 2020 13:31
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exquisite tea posted:I think a lot of people, even really smart logical people, have trouble reconciling what seem to be two conflicting ideas in their head: That Trump is a dangerous authoritarian who is openly bringing fascism to America, and that he is a weak, incompetent and narcissistic leader. It seems difficult at times to believe that both things can be true, because when people think about the dystopian police state they imagine it's like 1984 or the popularized image of Nazi Germany -- this kind of jackbooted, hyper-efficient, all-encompassing regime that controls everyone's thoughts. But you don't have to be all that smart or even good at your job to be a fascist. Indeed, the only historical examples we have of its leaders collectively represent some of the dumbest and most pathetic specimens of humanity on planet earth. You don't have to control every post office or polling center in the country to meaningfully alter the election results. You don't have to even have to win your election to do irreparable damage to electoral politics. All you need to instill fascism is an unending willingness to do harm and nobody to stop you. It doesn't have to happen overnight, and it doesn't have to be efficient. You just have to be cruel. quote:His government was constantly in chaos, with officials having no idea what he wanted them to do, and nobody was entirely clear who was actually in charge of what. He procrastinated wildly when asked to make difficult decisions, and would often end up relying on gut feeling, leaving even close allies in the dark about his plans. His "unreliability had those who worked with him pulling out their hair," as his confidant Ernst Hanfstaengl later wrote in his memoir Zwischen Weißem und Braunem Haus. This meant that rather than carrying out the duties of state, they spent most of their time in-fighting and back-stabbing each other in an attempt to either win his approval or avoid his attention altogether, depending on what mood he was in that day. Even before we start talking about red armbands and Trump attempting declaring a thousand year reich theres a lot of sublte damage that comes from having someone like that in authority. In countries with a lot of government corruption theres often this sense of resignation among the populace that nothing matters because no one is ever held to account and thats just the norm. It has knock on effects all across the system. AVeryLargeRadish posted:A lot of people around here think Trump is better than Obama because Trump is This isnt that debate though, its Nelson Manidingos assertion that Barack Obama, former president now private citizen will be the one who saves america. Even if you see Obama as a decent man thats a loving stretch. massive spider fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 13:34
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Because a president interfering with the election of a political rival absolutely wouldn't come out and cause a significant backlash. My dude, Obama was never on your side nor will he ever be. He’s watched as Trump raped and pillaged this nation and he solemnly nodded from the sidelines. Obama is on team finance. If you’re rich then he’s on your side. Otherwise, you’re on your own.
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Sep 7, 2020 13:44
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eXXon posted:He loves winning and to be loved and appreciated for being the bigliest winner president in history, do I think he genuinely does want to be president, just not to have to do any actual hard work. He already gets to gently caress around and watch Fox and play golf most of the time so it's not like it's a huge burden. DeJoy is heavily invested in some USPS subcontractors. I’m sure money is his motivation. Dismantle the post office so it’s ineffective. Make the case that it should be shuttered and replaced with these convenient subcontractors who already do most of the work (because it has shifter to them by DeJoy). Take over a world wide distribution system and make 10s of billion a year.
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Sep 7, 2020 13:49
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massive spider posted:This isnt that debate though, its Nelson Manidingos assertion that Barack Obama, former president now private citizen will be the one who saves america. Even if you see Obama as a decent man thats a loving stretch. I agree it's a stretch. However for people to accept even the possibility of the argument the OP was making they would need to see Obama as a person opposed to fascism and many posters here see him as approving of or indifferent to a possible slide into fascism. I see that as a bigger reason for why people will ignore the argument the OP made, and looking at the posts since then I feel reasonably justified in my assertion.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:01
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Zombie Dachshund posted:The danger isn't that Biden will be elected and Trump will refuse to leave. The danger is that Trump will gently caress with the election by encouraging militias to suppress the vote by showing up at polling places or gently caress with the vote by sending armed chuds to surround (or worse, storm) the places where votes are counted. If things get even worse, he could send his little green men to shut down vote counting in blue areas of purple states. Stop counting the votes in those places, declare victory, and when it goes to court, rerun Bush v. Gore, only with more street violence. Does Trump want to be president at this point? Unless Biden admin threatens to prosecute him/family he would gladly take the way out and continue his perfomance outside for QANON grift bux and branding, free from paperwork and constant phonecalls from NATO leadership.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:02
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fatherboxx posted:Does Trump want to be president at this point? New York is definitely prosecuting him and has been extremely unsubtle about it.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:05
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https://twitter.com/tomjchicago/status/1302803724134502401?s=21
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Sep 7, 2020 14:08
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Maria Juana posted:My dude, Obama was never on your side nor will he ever be. He’s watched as Trump raped and pillaged this nation and he solemnly nodded from the sidelines. If only Obama had used his huge amounts of power, as an ex president, to stop Trump. 
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Sep 7, 2020 14:09
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fatherboxx posted:Does Trump want to be president at this point? Trump doesn't want the duties of president, he wants the praise and positive media coverage of being a good president. He also wants the power, but not to actually use that power, he wants the fear and respect from having that power. That's the Trump Trap. He wants the praise, respect, and fear of being a Good Strong President, but he's completely incapable of that. He's a weak, cowardly, petty, vindictive rear end in a top hat. He wants what he can never have. So his life can only consist of rage-tweeting and whining to Fox News hosts.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:10
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Fritz the Horse posted:Trump doesn't want the duties of president, he wants the praise and positive media coverage of being a good president. He also wants the power, but not to actually use that power, he wants the fear and respect from having that power. That's my read on it. His bafflement is why becoming president didn't make the MSM and all the elites in NYC that have shat on him for decades suddenly like him now. I'm sure he thought this would do it.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:12
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I think they may be reading too much into that clip.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:12
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https://twitter.com/DaveDahdi/status/1302957763576950787?s=20
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Sep 7, 2020 14:13
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:I think they may be reading too much into that clip. Yeah it's weird, but Biden clips have taught me "you need more than 15 seconds to tell if somebody is stroking out live on camera"
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Sep 7, 2020 14:15
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I think Trump is more than fine with losing, as long as he can mitigate being called a loser, by casting enough doubt among his supporters that they all think Biden only won because it was rigged against Trump. The next year or two is going to be spent dealing with the economic fallout from the pandemic, the GOP is going to be preaching austerity, prolonging the pain, and eventually the stock market is going to going to reflect reality, and I don't think Trump is interested in presiding over a protracted recovery. I don't think he is genuinely worried on the legal front. The Democrats insistence on  means they won't go after Trump once he is no longer in office.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:17
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theflyingorc posted:If only Obama had used his huge amounts of power, as an ex president, to stop Trump. Yes? If nothing else being a respected former president means you have a lot of influence. Obviously he can't outright stop Trump but if he wanted to lessen some of the harm Trump is causing then there's plenty he could do besides telling people to vote.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:17
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TyrantWD posted:The next year or two is going to be spent dealing with the economic fallout from the pandemic, the GOP is going to be preaching austerity, prolonging the pain, and eventually the stock market is going to going to reflect reality, and I don't think Trump is interested in presiding over a protracted recovery. I don't think he is genuinely worried on the legal front. The Democrats insistence on Ugh federal debt is going to matter again isn't it?
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Sep 7, 2020 14:18
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If Trump steals the election it will be completely legally though the court he's spent the past four years packing with 19 year old Liberty U psychopaths. The Democratic response will be strongly worded statements of displeasure. There will be large protests about it but they will fizzle out in the face of brutal police oppression. The ideas that Trump will unilaterally illegally declare himself president for life, that Obama will lead a great uprising that will force the usurper Trump from power through sheer decorum and respect for institutions, or that the Rachel Maddow Show audience will take to the hills and become a popular insurgency dedicated to installing Joe Biden as president, are all absurd fantasies.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:20
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TyrantWD posted:I don't think he is genuinely worried on the legal front. The Democrats insistence on Yeah, there is a vanishingly small chance Trump ever sees real consequences from all of this. Most likely, he spends his remaining days rage tweeting form the mountain of taxpayer money he "diverted" into his business interests.
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Sep 7, 2020 14:20
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Mooseontheloose posted:Ugh federal debt is going to matter again isn't it? Hell, we're gonna see it coming from Biden as well. quote:Former Delaware Sen. Ted Kaufman, a Biden confidant who succeeded him in the Senate, predicted during a Wall Street Journal Newsmakers Live interview Tuesday that a large increase in federal spending would be difficult to achieve in 2021. Gotta love those household metaphors for the deficit!
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Sep 7, 2020 14:22
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Barry Foster posted:This is staggeringly naive. I notice that people are laser focusing on my opinion of Obama as a subjective political leader and objectively excellent campaigner rather than any other argument I set forth as to why Trump can't, won't, or will fail in extreme hypothetical fear mongering scenarios. If the idea that because Obama didn't do full communism now, or focused too much party power on his elections and is even a minor obstacle these days to a serious progressive agenda makes him a bad person or uninterested in the overall health of the nation is extremely limited and ideologically pure wishful thinking. I can think of more criticism of Obama's presidency than I have praise. He wasted his potential. But the idea he was some terrible president is just dumb. Trump has revealed and eroded weakness in our institutions. And 4 more years he'd damage them further. Possibly to the breaking point. But that doesn't mean they still don't exist or aren't strong. They're resistant to change. Which is unfortunate for is most of the time, but not right now. Anyway I don't wanna Obama derail too much more. If someone has novel criticism I'd genuinely love to hear it but otherwise just going to ignore drive by poo poo posts like this one. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 14:29
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Gripweed posted:If Trump steals the election it will be completely legally though the court he's spent the past four years packing with 19 year old Liberty U psychopaths. The Democratic response will be strongly worded statements of displeasure. There will be large protests about it but they will fizzle out in the face of brutal police oppression. Current SCOTUS wouldn't go for that. Gorsuch and Roberts aren't Trump toadies and won't be down to let Donnie blatantly steal the election. Gorsuch has proven to be a libertarian textualist and Roberts is very concerned about his legacy and preserving the prestige of the court, both of which would be ruined by being overtly partisan. Roberts wants evil conservative poo poo, but slowly so as to not tarnish the court's reputation. Justices Alito, Beer, and maybe Thomas would be down. In a hypothetical court case where Trump challenges the mail-in vote you'd have a 7-2 or 6-3 decision against. edit: Roberts is Lawful Evil, Gorsuch is Lawful Neutral. Alito and Kavanaugh are Neutral Evil, Thomas is Chaotic Neutral. Roberts and Gorsuch will not go for the Chaotic Evil option of ruling in favor of blatant election stealing. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 14:30
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Srice posted:Yes? If nothing else being a respected former president means you have a lot of influence. Obviously he can't outright stop Trump but if he wanted to lessen some of the harm Trump is causing then there's plenty he could do besides telling people to vote. Oh ok
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Sep 7, 2020 14:30
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I notice that people are laser focusing on my opinion of Obama as a subjective political leader and objectively excellent campaigner rather than any other argument I set forth as to why Trump can't, won't, or will fail in extreme hypothetical fear mongering scenarios. I don't understand what you think he would do. If Trump steals the election through the courts like Bush did, what are you imaging Obama would do? Declare himself the true president?
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Sep 7, 2020 14:32
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Srice posted:Hell, we're gonna see it coming from Biden as well. The pantry will be bare. Well bare if you don't look at the 700 billion dollar jar of pickles labeled "the defense budget"
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Sep 7, 2020 14:35
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