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The loot in the treasure room isn't worthwhile, even with the upgrades that ARR gearsets got. I think only one of the three chests in there have any loot. The others have crystals or something. Though for what it's worth... fLame on the left because it has an L in it. fRuit on the right because it has an R in it. No really.
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Sep 12, 2020 14:51
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Does anyone else hear Dr.Orpheus screaming "ITS POWERED BY A FORSAKEN CHILD?!?!" every time Zodiark comes up now?
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Sep 12, 2020 18:46
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Xun posted:Does anyone else hear Dr.Orpheus screaming "ITS POWERED BY A FORSAKEN CHILD?!?!" every time Zodiark comes up now? I do now.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:13
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https://twitter.com/aamaurot/status/1304775058343288832
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Sep 13, 2020 03:52
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holy poo poo
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Sep 13, 2020 04:28
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I dunno, those are all general canned animations they use all the time aren't they? Not custom like the Emet-Selch wave
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Sep 13, 2020 04:34
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I dunno, those are all general canned animations they use all the time aren't they? I don't think those are used outside of those two characters.
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Sep 13, 2020 04:36
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I dunno, those are all general canned animations they use all the time aren't they? more posts from that twitter thread: https://twitter.com/aamaurot/status/1304776320895922177?s=20 https://twitter.com/aamaurot/status/1304848906589798400?s=20 It's a fun theory and I'm here for it
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Sep 13, 2020 04:43
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Y'shtola cannot have a shard of Hythlodaeus' soul because she did not have an Echo awakened by seeing a starshower. edit: then again, you may need to actually see it occur rather than sensing it with aethersight... the theory's back to being possible
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Sep 13, 2020 04:47
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We don't know if that's necessary. It's just speculation.
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Sep 13, 2020 04:48
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It's very likely that being a sundered soul is necessary to gain the echo, but it seems like different people need different amounts of prodding to awaken. Elidibus put extra effort into the starshower at Eulmore than the one at the Crystarium, presumably to catch people who weren't awakened the first time.
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Sep 13, 2020 05:15
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I don’t think the story benefits in any interesting or meaningful way from having Y’shtola be the reincarnation of Hythlodaeus
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Sep 13, 2020 05:22
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Wait I thought all souls were sundered souls of the Ancients.
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Sep 13, 2020 05:31
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Waffleman_ posted:Wait I thought all souls were sundered souls of the Ancients. No, most are the new (and if you're asking an Ascian, inferior) life forms that were created after Zodiark re-seeded the planet following the end of the cataclysm.
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Sep 13, 2020 05:41
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They're still sundered, I think, because the creation happened before the sundering. But they're not reincarnations of an Ancient.
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Sep 13, 2020 05:45
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Waffleman_ posted:Wait I thought all souls were sundered souls of the Ancients. There's also the people that felt a great sense of having lost something important from witnessing the starshower, but didn't actually awaken the Echo. Who I think might be sundered Ancients, but just lacking the part of their soul that would grant the special abilities. Which could then relate to why some peoples' Echos vary in strength and usage.
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Sep 13, 2020 05:53
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Gruckles posted:After Zodiark rewrote the rules of reality and stopped the calamities, but before Hydaelyn splintered everything, new non-Ancient mortal souls started appearing in the world. The Ascians' endgoal was to sacrifice these new souls as an exchange with Zodiark, so that the Ancients who sacrificed themselves to form him the first time could be reclaimed. While the Hydaelyn faction thought that wasn't right, and sacrificed themselves to create her and prevent that. So now everyone is sundered, but not all are former-Ancients. Yeah, I'd assume not every part of a former Ancient necessarily gets the Echo part.
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Sep 13, 2020 06:12
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thetoughestbean posted:I don’t think the story benefits in any interesting or meaningful way from having Y’shtola be the reincarnation of Hythlodaeus Also there can be a connection without it meaning the two are related; I don't know the timing on his memory-conjuring but say while doing so Emet-Selch is distracted thinking about the time he plucked a soul from the aether, a person that, maybe, reminds him of this old friend, boom, he remembers up a Hythlodaeus with her habits and mannerisms
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Sep 13, 2020 06:56
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I think it's almost guaranteed we'll meet Hydaelyn's heart whose name I forget before this is done but I hope when they explain why Emet-Selch and Lahabrea are unsundered (which I have to assume they'll get to) it comes to light that there's another, non-convocation (and thus non-Ascian) unsundered who has just been lying low. Or even just written records; it would just be nice to see an alternate viewpoint of the ancient events from someone who isn't dedicated to Zodiark, and ideally not to Hydaelyn either
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Sep 13, 2020 07:04
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Didn't someone already beat up Venat?
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Sep 13, 2020 10:01
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Groggy nard posted:Didn't someone already beat up Venat? Not as far as we know, Venat's still in Hydaelyn and didn't get attacked beforehand or anything. Venat's also an adult, who likely has a more serious outlook on their job and so probably didn't have the same urge to go off and Be A Hero like Elidibus did. So while Zodiark's effectively an empty suit, Hydaelyn likely isn't. Which likely explains why Hydaelyn's shown some level of self-agency over the game's story. And maybe how she kicked Zodiark's rear end thirteen different ways. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Sep 13, 2020 |
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Sep 13, 2020 14:17
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I think the thing that I absolutely love about the FFXIV story (and specifically Shadowbringers) is how much Zodiark has been recontexualized from "he's a big evil god." Because he's not a big evil god. He is a primal summoned to save the world. And he did just that.
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Sep 13, 2020 18:14
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I DIDNT KNOW I WANTED THIS MORE THAN ANYTHING UNTIL JUST NOW Mordiceius posted:I think the thing that I absolutely love about the FFXIV story (and specifically Shadowbringers) is how much Zodiark has been recontexualized from "he's a big evil god." Because he's not a big evil god. He is a primal summoned to save the world. And he did just that. Primals are summoned when people are praying desperately for salvation and Crystal Mama doesn't happen if Zodiark is just chilling after everything is fine Its Rinaldo fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Sep 13, 2020 |
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Sep 13, 2020 21:56
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Its Rinaldo posted:Primals are summoned when people are praying desperately for salvation and Crystal Mama doesn't happen if Zodiark is just chilling after everything is fine By all accounts Zodiark was just chilling, but the Convocation were planning to ask him to do something that had the Ancients split 50/50 on whether they thought it was ethical.
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Sep 13, 2020 22:21
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zodiark is just biding his time until he can buy a house without having to camp in front of the plot for 12 hours first so he has a place to put all the beds his retainers keep stealing
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Sep 13, 2020 22:55
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Gruckles posted:By all accounts Zodiark was just chilling, but the Convocation were planning to ask him to do something that had the Ancients split 50/50 on whether they thought it was ethical. It's hard to know what the actual responses to Zodiark were after the initial summonimg. If we take Fake Amaurot's NPCs as an accurate display of opinions prior to Zodiark's summoning (which personally I don't) then people were generally in favor of doing something but not clear on what, but the only reflection of opinions afterwards is the one show of the Hydaelyn summoners in Anemnesis; so, people who'd already made a heavy decision. For all we know, nobody outside of the Convocation was happy with Zodiark afterwards. Or perhaps it's the other way around, that everyone was cool with the Zodiark plans except for Venat's crew going 'whoa, that's not cool'. Our windows into Amaurot are just too drat tiny to know for sure how people as a whole felt.
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Sep 14, 2020 01:41
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Cleretic posted:It's hard to know what the actual responses to Zodiark were after the initial summonimg. If we take Fake Amaurot's NPCs as an accurate display of opinions prior to Zodiark's summoning (which personally I don't) then people were generally in favor of doing something but not clear on what, but the only reflection of opinions afterwards is the one show of the Hydaelyn summoners in Anemnesis; so, people who'd already made a heavy decision. The dialog surrouding Elidibus in 5.3 indicates that, even within the Convocation, they weren't entirely onboard with Zodiark and everything that went down after His summoning, and it took Elidibus remanifesting himself to bring them in line (perhaps representing them getting tempered by Him).
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Sep 14, 2020 02:06
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Copycat Zero posted:The dialog surrouding Elidibus in 5.3 indicates that, even within the Convocation, they weren't entirely onboard with Zodiark and everything that went down after His summoning, and it took Elidibus remanifesting himself to bring them in line (perhaps representing them getting tempered by Him). ...poo poo, now that you put it that way, does this mean it's possible that Zodiark itself didn't temper anyone on the initial summoning, but it was Elidibus re-emerging and wanting everyone to Stop Arguing that made it happen? Probably not, I think I can recall that one of the convocation stones had one of them going on as though Zodiark was successfully summoned and their thoughts were being altered... I took a lot of screenshots but not of that particular line. Hm.
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Sep 14, 2020 02:48
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Its Rinaldo posted:Primals are summoned when people are praying desperately for salvation and Crystal Mama doesn't happen if Zodiark is just chilling after everything is fine Zodiark didn't actually do poo poo. And as of the newest story, he didn't call for poo poo to be done either. The first words from the heart of Zodiark after his creation, when they were deciding if they should sacrifice all the lower life forms? "Fear...not... You will make...the right choice. And I will see it through.". That's not big evil god talk. Nor is it a call for soooooooouls! On no level that we've been presented was Zodiark ever an antagonistic force. The Convocation, sure, not great if you are a lesser being. Zodiark is exactly what it was created to be: The will of the star, that could save people from oblivion.
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Sep 14, 2020 03:22
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Mulva posted:The first words from the heart of Zodiark after his creation, when they were deciding if they should sacrifice all the lower life forms? "Fear...not... You will make...the right choice. And I will see it through.". That's not big evil god talk. That's evil genie talk, don't kid yourself.
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Sep 14, 2020 03:29
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Mulva posted:Zodiark didn't actually do poo poo. And as of the newest story, he didn't call for poo poo to be done either. The first words from the heart of Zodiark after his creation, when they were deciding if they should sacrifice all the lower life forms? "Fear...not... You will make...the right choice. And I will see it through.". That's not big evil god talk. Nor is it a call for soooooooouls! On no level that we've been presented was Zodiark ever an antagonistic force. The Convocation, sure, not great if you are a lesser being. Zodiark is exactly what it was created to be: The will of the star, that could save people from oblivion. That is the whole message of 5.3, yes. Zodiark was created to save the planet and the Amaurotine people. He is completely sincere about being the embodiment of the hope for salvation. Just remember that that salvation calls for repeated acts of genocide, and several such atrocities have already happened with more being scheduled until we stopped them.
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Sep 14, 2020 03:34
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Cythereal posted:Just remember that that salvation calls for repeated acts of genocide, and several such atrocities have already happened with more being scheduled until we stopped them. That has nothing to do with Zodiark, is the thing. You are talking about the Ascians, and what they chose. Their god hasn't even been real since the Sundering, as it's fragmented like everything else. Nobody told them to do all the horrible poo poo they did, because there is nothing around that could tell them. And before that there's no indication they were told to do anything in particular. They built a giant wishing machine to solve all their problems, and the price of using it on a global scale is life. What they choose to do with that appears to be on them, for good and for ill. Cleretic posted:That's evil genie talk, don't kid yourself. Except we know the person that delivered it and they aren't that smart.
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Sep 14, 2020 05:45
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Mulva posted:Zodiark didn't actually do poo poo. And as of the newest story, he didn't call for poo poo to be done either. The first words from the heart of Zodiark after his creation, when they were deciding if they should sacrifice all the lower life forms? "Fear...not... You will make...the right choice. And I will see it through.". That's not big evil god talk. Nor is it a call for soooooooouls! On no level that we've been presented was Zodiark ever an antagonistic force. The Convocation, sure, not great if you are a lesser being. Zodiark is exactly what it was created to be: The will of the star, that could save people from oblivion. Then what was the purpose of creating a primal to kill another primal if everything was fine? Moderate dissatisfaction isn't enough emotion to do the deed especially for one powerful enough to sunder Zodiark.
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Sep 14, 2020 08:55
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Its Rinaldo posted:Then what was the purpose of creating a primal to kill another primal if everything was fine? Moderate dissatisfaction isn't enough emotion to do the deed especially for one powerful enough to sunder Zodiark. The fact that Zodiark wasn't calling for a mass culling doesn't mean nobody was. The Convocation at least was totally willing to kill folks to bring back the dead. And Zodiark is, by all accounts, capable of doing it. The Ancients never really had a serious conflict that we know of, and so rather than smacking each other in the head with rocks they went with something a bit more logical: If they are going to make a giant god, we'll make a giant god. Ultimately the same desire, to save and protect life, was used to make both of them. The big crystal was designed from the beginning to counter Zodiark though, so it has a bit of a leg up in their fight. As it turns out a giant, nearly omnipotent being takes quite a bit of countering. And so they broke reality. Like ultimately the conflict wasn't some heated battle to extinction. Venat wasn't spouting curses against the Convocation or anything, they just thought that their beliefs were wrong. That's all, just another philosophical argument that got way, way out of hand. I'd expect Zodiark and Hydaelyn to be functionally almost identical, they were made by basically the same people for largely the same reasons. They look nearly identical too, except one is a dark crystal and one a light one. Sacrifice was an innate part of their creation, one side thought they could continue the process with other beings. The others disagreed. It's not like the capacity for power through sacrifice was innate to Zodiark, the people that made Hydaelyn killed themselves to do it too.
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Sep 14, 2020 11:02
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they probably went the summon-a-god route for Hydaelyn because it was quickest, the design work was already done they just needed aether and to turn down the sacrifice dial a notch or two
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Sep 14, 2020 11:12
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Its Rinaldo posted:Then what was the purpose of creating a primal to kill another primal if everything was fine? Moderate dissatisfaction isn't enough emotion to do the deed especially for one powerful enough to sunder Zodiark. The convocation wanted to sacrifice the new life to restore the old, people disagreed. This is said multiple times, first being implied post 75 Dungeon then outright stated in The Tempest and again now in the .x patches. Those disagreers decided to shatter the world to shatter Zodiark so the convocation couldn't ever do that.
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Sep 14, 2020 13:24
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The convocation wanted to sacrifice the new life to restore the old, people disagreed. This is said multiple times, first being implied post 75 Dungeon then outright stated in The Tempest and again now in the .x patches. This. Everyone except Azem agreed that Zodiark was necessary, and Zodiark did exactly as he was created to do. Hydaelen was created afterwards when the Amaurotines disagreed on what to do next, whether to try to bring back what was or make peace and move on. Gee, it's almost like this whole expansion centers on themes of healing and learning to move on after trauma.
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Sep 14, 2020 13:55
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Like 8 pages ago they talked about how Zodiark and Hydaelyn aren’t evil and that got me thinking. Who actually is evil in FFXIV? Gaius is/was a misguided fascist making amends, he’s close. Zenos is so aloof the concept of villainy doesn’t even enter his brain, enough he might not be considered an actual person. Nidhogg is also a misguided dude, but is seeking revenge against innocents for a justifiably heinous sleight. Even the progenitors of Ishgard who stole the dragons’ eyes probably had a solid, justifiable, and understandable reason to be assholes. Probably something about a Cold War with dragons if their alliance ever shifted so they needed to be prepared. Then I realize, the only truly evil and heinous dude was the usurious capitalist in the first samurai job quests that was trying to rape that girl.
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Sep 14, 2020 15:41
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i'd count asahi as evil
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Sep 14, 2020 15:50
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jokes posted:Like 8 pages ago they talked about how Zodiark and Hydaelyn aren’t evil and that got me thinking. Who actually is evil in FFXIV? Gaius is/was a misguided fascist making amends, he’s close. Zenos is so aloof the concept of villainy doesn’t even enter his brain, enough he might not be considered an actual person. Nidhogg is also a misguided dude, but is seeking revenge against innocents for a justifiably heinous sleight. Even the progenitors of Ishgard who stole the dragons’ eyes probably had a solid, justifiable, and understandable reason to be assholes. Probably something about a Cold War with dragons if their alliance ever shifted so they needed to be prepared. Gaius is a Nazi. He's evil.
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Sep 14, 2020 15:53
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