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Arcsquad12 posted:It is a problem that Gundam also deals with where there are plenty of people who sympathize with Zeon when their leadership was specifically compared to Hitler and the Nazis in the text itself. You give fascists cool looking toys and people who identify with surface level imagery think that since they look cool their ideas must be cool. Would you like to know more?
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Sep 14, 2020 20:19
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Desire to know more intensifies. An Empire game with a Starship Troopers bent would be amazing.
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Sep 14, 2020 20:28
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Cobbsprite posted:Would you like to know more? Again, the original Tie Fighter game handled this well, and that was the 90s Starship Troopers, also in the 90s, handled it extremely unwell. I caught none of that subtlety when I watched it back then Now I'm like 'oh, I get it. They're playing Dixie' Anyway rarrr
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Sep 14, 2020 20:30
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If you think a game is going to be fascist propaganda, then you probably shouldn't spend money on it. I really don't get what the point you're trying to make is, though. Is it that works of media can be misinterpreted? Is it that people will be spending money on it?
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Sep 14, 2020 20:33
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Something something "Wow! Cool starfighter!" Also cool to note that they're adding the X-Wing's paint job and the battle damaged Interceptor into the pre-order bonuses as two more skins.
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Sep 14, 2020 20:36
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Honestly I'm waiting until October 1st to pre-order, and I'll decide between Steam and Epic based on who has better pre-order bonuses. I have a slight lean towards EGS because gently caress Valve, but it's not a big enough one to sway me if the perks are better elsewhere.
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Sep 14, 2020 20:39
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:If you think a game is going to be fascist propaganda, then you probably shouldn't spend money on it. I really don't get what the point you're trying to make is, though. Is it that works of media can be misinterpreted? Is it that people will be spending money on it? i was voicing my disapproval at their choices in making that cinematic short sorry for doing that in the thread about the game broseph
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Sep 14, 2020 20:41
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Just so folks know, there's a mod out there to restore the iMuse soundtrack to the 1998 version of TIE Fighter. It also enhances the concourse music and briefing dialog. https://www.savingcontent.com/2014/10/29/tie-fighter-reconstructed-mod-for-gog-com-edition-released/ direct link: https://www.savingcontent.com/2014/08/09/guide-play-xwingseries-on-modern-pc/ axeil fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 20:42
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hhhat posted:i was voicing my disapproval at their choices in making that cinematic short Oh, thats ok, no need to apologize. I thought the short was pretty well done. : )
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Sep 14, 2020 20:49
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axeil posted:Just so folks know, there's a mod out there to restore the iMuse soundtrack to the 1998 version of TIE Fighter. It also enhances the concourse music and briefing dialog. Then all is set. Did the 98 edition of Tie Fighter include the engine mobility mechanic from XWVTF where going slower gave you a tighter turn radius?
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Sep 14, 2020 20:54
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axeil posted:Just so folks know, there's a mod out there to restore the iMuse soundtrack to the 1998 version of TIE Fighter. It also enhances the concourse music and briefing dialog. Woah, cool. Does running the 1998 version in DOSBox on a fast CPU do something to missile tracking? Trying to dodge advanced missiles feels totally bullshit, though I'm probably worse at video games than when I was a kid.
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Sep 14, 2020 20:56
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Arcsquad12 posted:Then all is set. Yep! Set throttle to 1/3 when you're dogfighting to out-turn the enemy. In canon I think the TIEs were supposed to have an amazing turning radius, so even though the A-Wing is faster, the TIEs usually dogfight better. Which iirc is the same thing between the Zero and American fighters in WWII in the Pacific, the Zero could out-dive and out-turn the American fighters but the American fighters were faster. Bubbacub posted:Woah, cool. You can't run the 98 version in DOSBox as it was a port to Windows 95/98. But yes, advanced missiles are a PITA to dodge. Just fly straight at them and shoot when they're initially fired or use a decoy beam.
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Sep 14, 2020 21:00
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Arcsquad12 posted:It is a problem that Gundam also deals with where there are plenty of people who sympathize with Zeon when their leadership was specifically compared to Hitler and the Nazis in the text itself. You give fascists cool looking toys and people who identify with surface level imagery think that since they look cool their ideas must be cool. I don't really have as much of a problem with it in Star Wars as I do in Gundam because in Gundam the conflict between the EFF and Zeon is actually presented as morally grey, which does unfortunately end up leading to dipshits actually thinking Zeon had a point (see also: MS IGLOO). Meanwhile, Star Wars has such a clearly cut black and white good versus evil throughline that I don't really mind them taking the time to make sympathetic Imperial characters because at the end of the day it's more interesting than moustache-twirling snidely whiplashes in star destroyers, and we know the Empire canonically loses the war. EDIT: Also the interceptor pilot is both morally conflicted and a gay icon, he owns: 
3 fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 21:02
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3 posted:I don't really have as much of a problem with it in Star Wars as I do in Gundam because in Gundam the conflict between the EFF and Zeon is actually presented as morally grey, which does unfortunately end up leading to dipshits actually thinking Zeon had a point (see also: MS IGLOO). Meanwhile, Star Wars has such a clearly cut black and white good versus evil throughline that I don't really mind them taking the time to make sympathetic Imperial characters because at the end of the day it's more interesting than moustache-twirling snidely whiplashes in star destroyers, and we know the Empire canonically loses at the end of the day. I disagree as because Star Wars is such a cut and dried good vs evil story you muddy the waters when you're like "Look, this imperial ace who shoots down civilian transports and genocides planets with an ISD just hates non-humans because a wookie killed his dad (while trying to not become enslaved), RELATABLE!" You can present them with motivations but you have to not make them sympathetic. Like they're space nazis, man, who gives a poo poo that this tie fighter guy married a dude and wants to get back to him alive. He should get murked by 20 y-wings asap.
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Sep 14, 2020 21:06
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:Oh, thats ok, no need to apologize. yep it really was, but for my one complaint 3 posted:I don't really mind them taking the time to make sympathetic Imperial characters because at the end of the day it's more interesting than moustache-twirling snidely whiplashes in star destroyers, and we know the Empire canonically loses the war. Yeah we also don't know anything else about the way they're portrayed AFAIK just this one short so far they could easily still be doing mostly the right thing with that anyway ok well I typed that before your edit and ugggghh so they made him a gay fascist ugghhhhhh edit: uggggh wrestled internally with the empire's methods what they blew up a planet .... they blew up a whole planet hhhat fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 21:07
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3 posted:I don't really have as much of a problem with it in Star Wars as I do in Gundam because in Gundam the conflict between the EFF and Zeon is actually presented as morally grey, which does unfortunately end up leading to dipshits actually thinking Zeon had a point (see also: MS IGLOO). Meanwhile, Star Wars has such a clearly cut black and white good versus evil throughline that I don't really mind them taking the time to make sympathetic Imperial characters because at the end of the day it's more interesting than moustache-twirling snidely whiplashes in star destroyers, and we know the Empire canonically loses the war. TIE Fighter did it the right way by mostly side-stepping the Rebel vs Imperial war and instead focusing on Imp vs Imp. They also personalized the conflict by having Harkov and Zaarin both be your commanding officer. And that's not even getting into how Star Wars has greyed the morality since then, most notably in Rogue One where you have the Rebels straight up torturing people and Imperials who are forced to work for the Empire against their will/are sympathetic. hhhat posted:yep it really was, but for my one complaint Alderaan had it coming. The rebel leadership had a chance to save the population and failed to do so as they were more committed to saving their own traitors than the population of Alderaan. No one ever talks about the thousands of lives lost on the Empire's side at Yavin brutally killed by the Rebels without a chance to surrender, curious. 
axeil fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 21:09
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Jerkface posted:I disagree as because Star Wars is such a cut and dried good vs evil story you muddy the waters when you're like "Look, this imperial ace who shoots down civilian transports and genocides planets with an ISD just hates non-humans because a wookie killed his dad (while trying to not become enslaved), RELATABLE!" If this was a game where you played exclusively as the rebels I'd agree with you, but you do understand why the developers would try to give people actual reasons to play as the other side, right? People are less inclined to fly TIE fighters in a game that is 50% about flying TIE fighters if every TIE fighter pilot is turbospacehitler. See also, TIE Fighter, the video game.
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Sep 14, 2020 21:10
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3 posted:If this was a game where you played exclusively as the rebels I'd agree with you, but you do understand why the developers would try to give people actual reasons to play as the other side, right? People are less inclined to fly TIE fighters in a game that is 50% about flying TIE fighters if every TIE fighter pilot is turbospacehitler. See also, TIE Fighter, the video game. we have covered that very well in these past few pages friend hell, i'd make the story of gay fascist that he realizes he's a fascist and the last mission is him joining the rebellion isnt this after ROTJ they're literally the worst they're the Lost Causers and everything lol @ gay turbospacehitler
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Sep 14, 2020 21:14
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hhhat posted:we have covered that very well in these past few pages friend Christ, take it to CSPAM if you wanna cry about it this much. 3 posted:If this was a game where you played exclusively as the rebels I'd agree with you, but you do understand why the developers would try to give people actual reasons to play as the other side, right? People are less inclined to fly TIE fighters in a game that is 50% about flying TIE fighters if every TIE fighter pilot is turbospacehitler. See also, TIE Fighter, the video game. To wit, in X-Wing Alliance the Imperials are all universally terrible and help the actual mob steal your family's poo poo. This is a good decision as you only ever play as the Rebels and it helps both personalize the conflict and not make you think too hard about all the pilots you're shooting down/killing. If people are playing as both the Alliance and Empire, it's a really bad idea to make one side morally disgusting to play for. You'll note that the WW2 games that have Nazis in them don't have you committing war crimes and running concentration camps as only actual irl Nazis would enjoy that. axeil fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 21:15
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hhhat posted:we have covered that very well in these past few pages friend I think it'd be a neat twist if it's his husband who defects late in the plot. axeil posted:No one ever talks about the thousands of lives lost on the Empire's side at Yavin brutally killed by the Rebels without a chance to surrender, curious. 
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Sep 14, 2020 21:16
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I think the best/most interesting Imp-aligned character I've seen in Star Wars is Gara Petothel/Lara Nostil, thus further proving Allston really was the best.
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Sep 14, 2020 21:17
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Like let's be real here, politically I'm definitely far further on the side of "Saw Gerrera did nothing wrong," but at the same time I appreciate well written characters that aren't just one-dimensional cutouts. Call me optimistic, but I think Star Wars and its themes are so thoroughly embedded in the public consciousness that I don't really think it could ever run into the same problem of unironic fascist support like Zeon wehraboos in the Gundam fandom. There is nothing wrong with thinking TIE fighters are cool because TIE fighters are indisputably cool, and thus far nothing about the short or any of the previously released game materials has suggested that the game will be engaging in Empire apologia in the same way that something like MS IGLOO did for Zeon. Also fiction in general just needs more badass gaysians.
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Sep 14, 2020 21:26
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Just saw this up on Steam, any reason not to cancel my Origin pre-order and rebuy? Fuuuuuuck Origin, i'll not use it if I can
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Sep 14, 2020 21:45
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The attempts by Disney Wars to make the Empire more inclusive make me feel conflicted. Making them cartoonishly evil fascists but then also making them an egalitarian pro LGBTQ meritocracy seems incompatible. Then again Disney also wants you to weep for the brainwashed minority child soldiers of the First Order one minute and then laugh and cheer the next as they die by the tens of thousands.
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Sep 14, 2020 21:49
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Keep in mind that the Imperial forces also are fed Imperial propaganda, and TIEs don't have hyperdrives, making pilots defecting pretty difficult. Again, TIE Fighter does it extremely well - on the surface, the Empire are the good guys! They're restoring order, breaking up regional conflicts and enforcing peace, while the evil Rebels are making cowardly attacks and hiding among civilian shipping. However, that doesn't stop it from being problematic when people don't get it - and a hell of a lot of people don't get it. There are a lot of people who think the Empire did nothing wrong, though it's pretty universal that the Sith (sheev and anny) were shitheads. Battlefront 2 (the new one) had an Imperial defection storyline. It really didn't work, at all. It was overly hamfisted and out of character (for what little character Inferno Squad had) for everyone involved. And as has been mentioned, the Empire literally blew up a planet, while the Republic destroyed both Death Stars and a large number of the Empire's Star Destroyers. Neither side's going to be terribly friendly to the other and folks are locked in. That's total war for you. Arcsquad12 posted:The attempts by Disney Wars to make the Empire more inclusive make me feel conflicted. Making them cartoonishly evil fascists but then also making them an egalitarian pro LGBTQ meritocracy seems incompatible. The Empire's just shifted the line for discrimination. Humans can be whoever they want, but aliens?
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Sep 14, 2020 21:53
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Lokee posted:Just saw this up on Steam, any reason not to cancel my Origin pre-order and rebuy? If it's anything like the other EA games on Steam, it'll just launch via Origin anyways.
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Sep 14, 2020 21:54
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Lokee posted:Just saw this up on Steam, any reason not to cancel my Origin pre-order and rebuy? Are you sure steam won't simply start Origin? I think that is a thing that happens.
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Sep 14, 2020 21:56
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I will repeat that my favourite campaign from Tie Fighter was the Sepan Civil War where the Empire "ended" the war between the
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Sep 14, 2020 21:58
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TIE fighter also pulled an absolutely fantastic swerve; as mentioned previously, you rarely engaged actual rebels, and when you did they were all basically terrorists, and so over time you kind of just forgot you were playing as the bad guys. And then at the last debriefing, your CO pulls you aside and tells you that the Imperial fleet is massing at Endor to crush the rebel scum once and for all!
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Sep 14, 2020 22:01
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Arcsquad12 posted:I will repeat that my favourite campaign from Tie Fighter was the Sepan Civil War where the Empire "ended" the war between the Sign an agreement placing the system firmly under Empire control, instead of their former neutral status, after escalating the fighting between the two themselves no less. I want to say that's either the 3rd or 4th campaign.
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Sep 14, 2020 22:01
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3 posted:I don't really have as much of a problem with it in Star Wars as I do in Gundam because in Gundam the conflict between the EFF and Zeon is actually presented as morally grey, which does unfortunately end up leading to dipshits actually thinking Zeon had a point (see also: MS IGLOO). Meanwhile, Star Wars has such a clearly cut black and white good versus evil throughline that I don't really mind them taking the time to make sympathetic Imperial characters because at the end of the day it's more interesting than moustache-twirling snidely whiplashes in star destroyers, and we know the Empire canonically loses the war. yeah, i am pretty sure the empire probably more frowns upon having relations with xenos than QUILTBAGS+ folks. at the end of the day, your just another warm body to die for sheevs empire anyway. Arcsquad12 posted:The attempts by Disney Wars to make the Empire more inclusive make me feel conflicted. Making them cartoonishly evil fascists but then also making them an egalitarian pro LGBTQ meritocracy seems incompatible. i mean even in the old canon when the empire was more way more sexist. they were way more anti alien than anti human stuff. i feel like in space universe with aliens of all variety, gender and sexuality doesn't really mean poo poo as a term of discrimination least when it comes to human centrist types. hhhat posted:we have covered that very well in these past few pages friend he might. who knows.
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Sep 14, 2020 22:06
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Sign an agreement placing the system firmly under Empire control, instead of their former neutral status, after escalating the fighting between the two themselves no less. I want to say that's either the 3rd or 4th campaign. I'm pretty sure its the 4th one. Its the first time Harkov appears. The best part is that after kidnapping their leadership both sides team up to fight the empire only to get crushed due to the aforementioned escalation exhausting them before Harkov's flagship swings in to deliver a death blow.
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Sep 14, 2020 22:07
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Arcsquad12 posted:I'm pretty sure its the 4th one. Its the first time Harkov appears. That's right, Battle 3 is the one where you actually fight Rebels, who are convoy raiding, and I think Thrawn ends up saving the day?
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Sep 14, 2020 22:15
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god Tie Fighter was just so good if they can even get a tenth of all that (whatever, I get to fly an X wing in VR the plot could be dumb as poo poo and I'm still going to be doing cartwheels)
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Sep 14, 2020 22:16
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:That's right, Battle 3 is the one where you actually fight Rebels, who are convoy raiding, and I think Thrawn ends up saving the day? Battle 1 is hunting down the Hoth remnants. Battle 2 I think is the one where you're running border defense for a new Starbase? Battle 3 I'm pretty sure is a continuation of 2 where you're now defending the operational Starbase against convoy raiders.
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Sep 14, 2020 22:18
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Arcsquad12 posted:I will repeat that my favourite campaign from Tie Fighter was the Sepan Civil War where the Empire "ended" the war between the Kidnapping their children.
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Sep 14, 2020 22:37
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Arbite posted:Kidnapping their children. Edit. Nope I was wrong. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 22:41
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lmbo watched the trailer and it definitely does just (accidentally?) paint the Empire in a good light, they even made it hard to see the X-Wing pilot's eyes like they would normally do for the bad guys
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Sep 14, 2020 22:53
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Eej posted:lmbo watched the trailer and it definitely does just (accidentally?) paint the Empire in a good light, they even made it hard to see the X-Wing pilot's eyes like they would normally do for the bad guys GOD just take it to CSPAM jeeeeeeeez
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Sep 14, 2020 23:01
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It sucks the game is space only it would be sick to do the Trump Boat Parade maneuver to someone
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Sep 14, 2020 23:02
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