|
Also do we know when to expect reviews, was an embargo announced? I can't see any reason for me to get a 5950X over a 5900X based on the price jump alone, but I'm interested in the lower ends.
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 17:03 |
|
|
Anandtech mentioned their reviews will be posted on launch day.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:15
|
|
|
Kraftwerk posted:I want the one that stops the bragging of 10700/10900 owners. who cares
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:16
|
|
|
Maybe Intel will be forced to drop prices making the 10700/10900 the best bang for the buck gaming performance? 
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:5900X apparently beats them in literally all things (cores/threads/single core performance) Excellent. Now I just hope my U14S is sufficient to cool the 5900X... I don't want the D15 and I don't want an AIO. 105 TDP should be easy to handle still.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
Kraftwerk posted:I want the one that stops the bragging of 10700/10900 owners. 5900X is strictly better. 5950X if you have infinite money. The 5800X looks like it'll probably trade punches with the 10700k, and who wins may come down to overclocking. Prices favor Intel here. We'll really need legit in-depth benchmarks to see what happens. The 5600X looks like it'll be slower than the 10700k, so it won't stop the bragging there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
drat Dirty Ape posted:Maybe Intel will be forced to drop prices making the 10700/10900 the best bang for the buck gaming performance? Intel is more likely to be angry at being the “budget option” and to raise prices.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:19
|
|
|
drat Dirty Ape posted:Maybe Intel will be forced to drop prices making the 10700/10900 the best bang for the buck gaming performance? The 10900 might get a haircut, yeah. The 10700 already looks to be undercutting the 5800X, so unless the 5800X turns out to be more performant in benchmarks than it looks like it ought to be given the specs, Intel's already well positioned there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:20
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:Intel: more cores for your money NGL it's very funny that the tables have turned like this.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:21
|
|
|
Performance increase is as expected, pricing going up kind of sucks, getting a 5800X regardless because 2700 -> 5800X is going to be legit huge for me. Although the jump to 550 for the 5900X is extremely tempting and probably designed to be so. Wonder if Cezanne is taking over the odd tiers, so 5700G, 5500G, 5300G. Paul MaudDib posted:as far as boost clocks the number on the box going up a bit is pretty meaningless (as we saw from the whole Zen2 launch debacle), but I'm curious what the actual numbers will be during a real load. Hoping for a similar increase across all cores would be nice (so 4.3 to 4.5), but GN Steve was told core overclocking would be more disappointing and most gains are with IF and DRAM OCing. Memory controller is the same, so the only variable is how the Zen3 core responds to IF and DRAM OC.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:24
|
|
|
The question is going to be real world performance. It will be funny if the arguments for Intel and AMD switch, where AMD can argue "single thread crown" while Intel makes the "best multithread performance for the dollar" arguments. e: I wouldn't be surprised to see AMD knock $25 off the 5600X very soon Number19 fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Oct 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:25
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:I kept sayin', once AMD finally beats skylake the prices will go up to Intel levels. That's 9900K pricing, paid $475 for my 8C just about exactly two years ago. The 8700K could have been cheaper depending on when you got it, OEM ones were $250 at microcenter for a while I like how high end buyers get a smaller percentage price increase lol, 5950X is a better value in cores/$ than the 5800X.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:28
|
|
|
Number19 posted:where AMD can argue "single thread crown" while Intel makes the "best multithread performance for the dollar" arguments. Zen 2 is going to hold that still, no?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:28
|
|
|
Who wants my 3800x for $250 (in 6-8 weeks)?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:28
|
|
|
I'm going to skip all this 14nm+++++++++ and 7nm+ business and to straight to best you can get: 5nm apple silicon 
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:29
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Zen 2 is going to hold that still, no? The assumption is that Zen 2 will effectively be discontinued and thus disappear from the market in short order.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:29
|
|
|
DrDork posted:The assumption is that Zen 2 will effectively be discontinued and thus disappear from the market in short order. Maybe, but Zen+ is still available and cheap.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:30
|
|
|
MaxxBot posted:I like how high end buyers get a smaller percentage price increase lol, 5950X is a better value in cores/$ than the 5800X. Yeah, there's something wrong with that pricing scale still. The 5900X is 50% more cores for only 22% more dollars. I think both the 5600X and 5800X will get revised down once AMD hears the furor.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:31
|
|
|
This black friday is a great chance for AMD to firesale Zen 2000 stuff. I'd be so down for a $100 2600x.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:34
|
|
|
MaxxBot posted:I like how high end buyers get a smaller percentage price increase lol, 5950X is a better value in cores/$ than the 5800X. is there a bigger performance gulf gen over gen at the lower end?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:35
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:Maybe, but Zen+ is still available and cheap. Different process node.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:37
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Zen 2 is going to hold that still, no? kinda sorta Intel's 4/8, 6/12 and 8/16 CPUs are cheaper than AMD's offerings, core-for-core, if you're getting the locked versions if you're comparing them to the unlocked ones, then yeah, AMD is still a little cheaper and then Intel tops out at 10/20, and the i9-10850K is still more expensive than the Ryzen 9 3900X's 12/24 sean10mm posted:Maybe, but Zen+ is still available and cheap. is Zen 1/+ even still in production? I would have thought not, except maybe for the Athlon chips since those don't have any Ryzen competition and they're using them to break into the Chromebook space
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:37
|
|
|
Apparently Zen 3 has the exact same memory controller as Zen 2, so no changes there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:45
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:Apparently Zen 3 has the exact same memory controller as Zen 2, so no changes there. That should mean the Zen 2 Sweetheart RAM - Crucial Ballistix 3600 gets yet another boost to its staying power. Overall loving this launch and only wishing I didn't jump the gun with a 3700x so soon. Also kind of wishing I got a B550 or the new Asus passively cooled X570 - but the Tomahawk will probably work for most of its useful life so no reason to worry about that. I'll sell the 3700X for 225 USD + shipping and buy a 5900x. With any luck it'll stay reasonably cool with a U14S, I'm not exactly excited about how the D15 is featured on their test benches.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:50
|
|
|
Are they going to do non-X versions? They launched both last time, right?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:51
|
|
|
MaxxBot posted:I like how high end buyers get a smaller percentage price increase lol, 5950X is a better value in cores/$ than the 5800X. Yeah the 5800x is really terrible value and basically no one should buy it. For gaming, 5600x is probably fine; for productivity, you may as well move up to the 12 or 16 core parts.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:53
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:Rocket Lake is still technically on 14nm, but it's a new architecture based on "backporting" the 10nm Tiger Lake design. It's probably going to be competitive, but the fact that it's going to be five months after Zen 3 means, yeah, AMD can make bank for a while Rocket Lake will probably put them on par with Zen3 but six months later, with more power, probably with worse supply, and lower core count (back down to 8 cores). The 8700K and 9900K were pro-buys (a new architecture finally offering a 15% performance bump after 3 years is a really good run and still is nothing to really make upgrading attractive) but if Zen3 is really getting +26% gaming perf on average then Rocket Lake is pretty much toast before it's even announced. Even if it comes out like 5% on top or whatever, it's not like that's really worth waiting for, and every other factor favors AMD there. Intel really needed to get Rocket Lake out this year, ideally in October, no later than CES. Sliding their timeline 6 months back from where it was in 2017/2018 really hurt them and continues to hurt them on an ongoing basis. That said Intel will trundle along fine, they're in no worse a position than AMD was during the early Ryzen days, they're just not in the driver's seat anymore. And AMD's price increases do soften that blow a lot, if AMD was doing 5600 performance at $199 they'd tear Intel apart, AMD has cranked prices up to 9900K levels again, big regressions in price-per-core especially at the low end. They may do a 5600 non-X once Rocket Lake is closer to launch, but they may not - they don't have to, they are fully on top now and they're cranking their margins. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Oct 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:54
|
|
|
Some tidbits from the GamersNexus video about the launch: 1) If your BIOS has AMD AGESA ComboV2 1.0.8.0 and higher, you can post with Zen 3. It looks like a bunch of boards already have BIOS with that available to download. 2) Beta BIOS support for Zen 3 on the B450/X470 is expected around January 2021, so it sounds like those boards won't have day 1 support for Zen 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AanO3Axzk
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:55
|
|
|
Reminder that those frame increases were at 1080p with 2080 Ti, if you game at 1440p or 4k and have a relatively recent CPU or dont have a big time GPU, the numbers will NOT be as wacky. Very likely a ~5% difference average vs a 3600 non-X at 1440P and probably close to zero at 4k. Wait for reviews, etc. For example, from the 10850k review at 1440p: 
Cygni fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Oct 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:56
|
|
|
Speaking of boards, is there any expectation that there'll be a new round of motherboards in November? I'd like to build a SFF / mITX deal, but right now AMD's mITX options are all lacking for my needs (I'd like 2x M.2, TB3, and not-lovely audio. Is that really so much to ask?).
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:57
|
|
|
Honestly for all the notice the 5600X's price is getting, it's really the 5800X that's in a bad spot price wise. The 5900X is pretty close to double the price of a 5600X and you get twice the CPU. It kind of makes sense overall. The 5800X is priced too close to the 5900X and is much worse value. This is definitely my upgrade year and I was targeting the 5800X before today. Now it's the 5900X and it's not even a close argument. Maybe that was the plan: price the 5800X so poorly that you push people up market. Wasn't the 3800X also considered to be terrible value? I guess we don't have a 5700X to compare it to this time...
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:57
|
|
|
Cygni posted:Reminder that those frame increases were at 1080p with 2080 Ti, if you game at 1440p or 4k and have a relatively recent CPU or dont have a big time GPU, the numbers will NOT be as wacky. Very likely a ~5% difference average vs a 3600 non-X at 1440P and probably close to zero at 4k. Wait for reviews, etc. 10/08/2020: the day AMD fanboys remember how to benchmark a CPU properly
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:58
|
|
|
Number19 posted:Honestly for all the notice the 5600X's price is getting, it's really the 5800X that's in a bad spot price wise. The 5900X is pretty close to double the price of a 5600X and you get twice the CPU. It kind of makes sense overall. The 5800X is priced too close to the 5900X and is much worse value. that is the reality of chiplet manufacturing though. A 5900X is two 5600X dies and can have two broken cores each. A 5800X has to be perfect. It's the reason Threadripper 3000 pricing was bullshit, they were charging even higher per-core prices than a 3950X and giving you lovely dies with broken cores that were super cheap to manufacture. 3960X should have been $700-800 based on the pricing relative to 3600 - yes, perhaps less than a 3950X, which needs two perfect dies. Very much a case of pricing based on what the market would bear rather than the cost of production, capturing that producer surplus rather than allowing consumer surplus. (and say what you want about Intel - but they did pass that cost savings along to the consumer on the HEDT platform, 5820K was the same price as a 4790K basically, you got two extra cores for the same price if you were willing to spring for the motherboard.) Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Oct 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 18:59
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:that is the reality of chiplet manufacturing though. A 5900X is two 5600X dies and can have two broken cores each. A 5800X has to be perfect. I suppose there's something to that. If a 5800X is indeed a single chiplet then there might actually be solid performance benefits to that since there won't be any inter-CCX hops. It really will come down to what the benchmarks look like I guess.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 19:03
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:(and say what you want about Intel - but they did pass that cost savings along to the consumer on the HEDT platform, 5820K was the same price as a 4790K basically, you got two extra cores for the same price if you were willing to spring for the motherboard.) It's the same price if you ignore the extra expense involved? 
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 19:12
|
|
|
Paul MaudDib posted:that is the reality of chiplet manufacturing though. A 5900X is two 5600X dies and can have two broken cores each. A 5800X has to be perfect. The 5950x has to have two perfect chiplets and it's still cheaper per core. AMD is just trying to upsell people.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 19:14
|
|
|
I'd just like a 5960X. 24 cores à four six-core chiplets with each the full 32MB cache. More cores than I have right now, and more cache per core than the 5950X.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 19:14
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:It's the same price if you ignore the extra expense involved? the expense of a different component made by a completely different manufacturer? yeah bud Intel really pulled a sneaky there HEDT motherboards are more expensive, that's a completely normal thing. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to just admit that Intel was cutting customers a deal on the processor and passing the savings of die harvesting along. 5820K was priced very attractively, you can just say it. Sure would be nice if AMD would do the same. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Oct 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 19:23
|
|
|
nvm
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 19:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 17:03 |
|
|
AMD CPU Discussion: you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2020 19:27
|
|