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I finished my rewatch; I don't have any takes about the final scene that haven't already been covered in the posts after Jerusalem's writeup so I came up with a fake one designed to alienate David Chase as much as possible; Tony died in a hit set up by Slava because he found out about what happened in Pine Barrens. The cat is Valery resurrected, which is why he's obsessed with Chris's photo and haunts Paulie I'm still reading through the backlog of posts so maybe someone's already posted this but Bojack Horseman had a goof on the finale that I liked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LigaaVyylM&t=36s I also laughed extremely hard at Tony's plot synopsis of Anti-Virus, written by Danny Baldwin, about the private detective who gets sucked into the internet through his dataport and has to solve the murder of a bunch of virtual prostitutes. Really amazing that they found time for such a laugh line in the finale. I don't know what to do with myself now that I've finished. I could start over, I suppose
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Nov 11, 2020 02:22
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quote:I also laughed extremely hard at Tony's plot synopsis of Anti-Virus, written by Danny Baldwin, about the private detective who gets sucked into the internet through his dataport and has to solve the murder of a bunch of virtual prostitutes. Really amazing that they found time for such a laugh line in the finale If I'm ever rich I'm financing that loving movie and I'm gonna make David Chase watch it like twelve times while we're in court.
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Nov 11, 2020 02:45
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Solice Kirsk posted:If I'm ever rich I'm financing that loving movie and I'm gonna make David Chase watch it like twelve times while we're in court. lol
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Nov 11, 2020 04:03
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Ainsley McTree posted:
Go do The Wire or Breaking Bad
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Nov 11, 2020 11:36
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BiggerBoat posted:Go do The Wire or Breaking Bad Already seen em (un?)fortunately. I am enjoying Jerusalem's Mad Men thread though. I watched that show once and loved it but just don't feel compelled to put in the time to watch the whole series again. Jerusalem's writeups are thorough enough that it's just the amount of time I want to spend re-experiencing it.
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Nov 11, 2020 18:56
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Get Shorty was a lot of fun. Third season kinda slumped a bit, but was still very enjoyable.
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Nov 11, 2020 20:27
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Have you seen the Americans or deadwood. Those are next in my list of hour long prestige tv dramas
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Nov 11, 2020 21:29
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Deadwood is amazing. It may actually be time for another rewatch for me. I had planned to go through it again before watching the movie, but decided to go in cold since I figured that's how Milch would have written it.
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Nov 11, 2020 22:23
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In retrospect, who was the biggest piece of poo poo on the Sopranos? My first gut reaction is Ralphie, but you could really make a case for Paulie, Chris, and Tony as well. I'd say it's a toss up between Ralphie and Chris. Ritchie definitely gets the consolation prize.
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Nov 12, 2020 01:27
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Either Phil or all of them, I guess. I don't know that we could fairly withhold the title of 'sociopath' from any of them except maybe Bobby?
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Nov 12, 2020 01:43
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Phil is a POS in the mafia realm, but he doesn't really have anything on Chris ratting out his fiance to be murdered, beating the poo poo out of her, murdering a random waiter over a tip...or alternately Ralphie gaslighting his pregnant girlfriend and then beating her to death. But ultimately yeah, Bobby was the only one that wasn't a complete sociopath.
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Nov 12, 2020 01:48
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veni veni veni posted:In retrospect, who was the biggest piece of poo poo on the Sopranos? My first gut reaction is Ralphie, but you could really make a case for Paulie, Chris, and Tony as well. I'd say it's a toss up between Ralphie and Chris. Janice?
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Nov 12, 2020 12:45
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Chris and Tony both have specs of humanity. Livia and Janice are just black holes. That being said, I think the worst person is Ralph. Remember when Silvio beat the poo poo out of his girlfriend and Ralph was just peeking through the window with a sadistic grin on his face?
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Nov 12, 2020 16:22
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Janice is low-key way up near the top there. I've been doing a rewatch with my partner (well for me - her first time) and she physically recoils whenever Janice is on screen. There's just a sucking black hole where her soul should be. She's kind of pathetic for that, though. There's nothing pathetic about Richie, he really was just a mad dog who needed to be put down. No redeeming features. Same with Ralphie. Christopher is maybe a bit sympathetic at points but holy poo poo is he an absolute psycho and totally deserved to die. All of the mob characters except Bobbie are pretty much irredeemable (I have to catch myself when I sympathise with Junior, because even though he's quite sweet and charming as an old man he was clearly a terror in his day) Ainsley McTree posted:I don't know what to do with myself now that I've finished. I could start over, I suppose As others have said before me - Deadwood Deadwood DEADWOOD
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Nov 12, 2020 16:23
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Have any of you known people like Janice though? I mean there are lots of wretched people littered among my family and friends, but some I've met through my fiancée really take the cake. And not just the soulless vessels for drug use. Just awful people who exist solely to detract from others, there is no positive impact of anybody or anything.
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Nov 12, 2020 16:38
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I honestly think Sil is up there. The show did a great job of presenting him as this sort of comical, almost charmingly self-aware consigliere character, but every once in a while they'd give him a line or two to remind the audience who he was, and that he was just way more subtle about his sociopathy than people like Ralphie. Abusing and extorting dancers at the Bing, and the absolute pure evil and malice in the "loving oval office" line he gives with Adriana.
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Nov 12, 2020 16:42
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I think there's something to be said about the distinction between what's inside a person, and what they actually do, the impact of their actions. And it can be tough to keep that in mind, because you'd probably be more inclined to want to hang out with someone like Chris or Silvio than someone like Janice. A lot of these guys, who are multiple murders, are able to maintain a very friendly or even charismatic mask when it comes to their day to day interactions. Janice isn't able to do that as much, her lovely personality is so strong that she can't contain it for more than a few minutes. But it doesn't make her more evil than the guys who are murdering young women in cold blood or killing randoms on the street over stupid petty offenses.
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Nov 12, 2020 17:06
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There's something to be said with how good the show is at making you focus on the funny or empathetic bits without realizing it snatches the rug out of you. Some friends and I were talking about the show and they were going on and on about al the hilarious stuff Paulie did, the line at the psychic, the stuff with Christopher in the Barrens, etc., when somebody finally says 'yeah, he was okay.' And I reminded them he smothered an old woman he was trying to rob for convenience's sake.
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Nov 12, 2020 17:17
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potee posted:I honestly think Sil is up there. The show did a great job of presenting him as this sort of comical, almost charmingly self-aware consigliere character, but every once in a while they'd give him a line or two to remind the audience who he was, and that he was just way more subtle about his sociopathy than people like Ralphie. Abusing and extorting dancers at the Bing, and the absolute pure evil and malice in the "loving oval office" line he gives with Adriana. God, that scene where he's got that stripper in a half nelson and he's screaming "I OWN THAT SHAVED T**T OF YOURS, YOU HEAR ME?!" at her was REALLY disturbing.
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Nov 12, 2020 17:37
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:God, that scene where he's got that stripper in a half nelson and he's screaming "I OWN THAT SHAVED T**T OF YOURS, YOU HEAR ME?!" at her was REALLY disturbing. First few times watching that scene I thought it was comedic because you almost never see that side of Sil and Ralphie's laughing like an idiot through the window. Only later did it dawn on me how horrific it was.
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Nov 12, 2020 18:43
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codo27 posted:Have any of you known people like Janice though? I mean there are lots of wretched people littered among my family and friends, but some I've met through my fiancée really take the cake. And not just the soulless vessels for drug use. Just awful people who exist solely to detract from others, there is no positive impact of anybody or anything. I don't think I've ever met anyone totally irredeemable, but I've met a lot of people who are broken in a similar sort of way to Janice. Far less malicious overall, but just constantly on the mental, spiritual and emotional move, constantly trying to find something, anything, to fill the hole, and lashing the gently caress out at people when they're inevitably left unsatisfied. potee posted:I honestly think Sil is up there. The show did a great job of presenting him as this sort of comical, almost charmingly self-aware consigliere character, but every once in a while they'd give him a line or two to remind the audience who he was, and that he was just way more subtle about his sociopathy than people like Ralphie. Abusing and extorting dancers at the Bing, and the absolute pure evil and malice in the "loving oval office" line he gives with Adriana. Phasmid referred to him ITT as 'a mean loving pimp with a heart of ice', and it's true. The others are thieves and bullies, usually opportunistically, but Sil's a systematic abuser. We got to the Ade episode just the other day. I had to leave the room for a bit for that part.
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Nov 12, 2020 19:34
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Ralphie watching Sil beat up his girlfriend through the window is the funniest scene in the show to me just because it's so ridiculous to see a character who would express joy in that situation. Probably none of the mob guys would even be moved to find that sort of display distasteful, but only Ralphie would think it's the most hilarious thing he's ever seen.
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Nov 12, 2020 23:33
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Suxpool posted:Ralphie watching Sil beat up his girlfriend through the window is the funniest scene in the show to me just because it's so ridiculous to see a character who would express joy in that situation. Probably none of the mob guys would even be moved to find that sort of display distasteful, but only Ralphie would think it's the most hilarious thing he's ever seen. It's a very telling juxtaposition that right before this Ralph is complaining about how Spartakus isn't a good gladiator movie and Kirk Douglas' haircut. He treats that more seriously.
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Nov 12, 2020 23:36
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Was the scene with Ralph laughing as Sil beats Tracie the one that immediately cuts to all of them laughing at dinner with their wives as they joke about marriage poo poo? I thought that was great
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Nov 12, 2020 23:59
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Basebf555 posted:I think there's something to be said about the distinction between what's inside a person, and what they actually do, the impact of their actions. And it can be tough to keep that in mind, because you'd probably be more inclined to want to hang out with someone like Chris or Silvio than someone like Janice. A lot of these guys, who are multiple murders, are able to maintain a very friendly or even charismatic mask when it comes to their day to day interactions. Janice isn't able to do that as much, her lovely personality is so strong that she can't contain it for more than a few minutes. But it doesn't make her more evil than the guys who are murdering young women in cold blood or killing randoms on the street over stupid petty offenses. Yeah, Janice is for sure one of the most purely annoying characters. It's easy to think of her as the worst person because most people have experience dealing with an insufferable, toxic, narcissistic liar, whereas things like murder and extortion aren't things most people deal with. It's the same reason people have a worse reaction to a character getting a papercut than a machete to the face. Splitting hairs over which murderer is worse seems a little silly but I guess I'd say Ralphie too because he was the most sadistic. And he was obnoxious to boot.
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Nov 13, 2020 00:19
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Maybe it's a generational thing -- I suspect I'm a bit younger than some of the other posters ITT -- or it's just coming to the a lot later than the rest of you, or whatever, but this whole "the mobsters are actually psychopaths" revelation that you guys talk about continually being reminded of, I dunno, that's so completely different to my experience of the show? I mean, maybe that's why I could never make it past the third season, but everyone is blatantly repulsive, there's just no arc to the show for me. Or, at least, it's not the same kind of arc as you guys seem to have experienced. I just don't find anyone remotely charming, I think. It's obviously wonderfully cast, well performed, clever, all the rest, but it feels, I dunno, dated. The stuff that's the best about the show is the comedy. (I also have no understanding of the Italian American stuff; I'd never even heard of Columbus Day before reading about the episode on the show. It's operating on a completely different frame of reference to what I'm used to).
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Nov 13, 2020 00:33
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I feel like it’s gotta be livia for me. She was such a monster that she turned her kids evil (except for Barbara who gtfo’d and never looked back). It’s even a recurring theme throughout the show. It’s such an injustice that Nancy Marchand died, I would have loved to see where else they could have taken that character, she played her so powerfully. For some reason I can’t bring myself to hate Janice, even though I can’t blame anyone else for doing so. She would be such a horrible person to have in your family/social circle, but as a fictional character I don’t mind her. Also I think an honorable mention has to go to Phil’s wife. We spend too little time with her to really get to know her, but what time we do paints a strong picture of just the worst kind of hypocritical Jesus freak. Makes the narcoleptic guy look like Gandhi
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Nov 13, 2020 00:49
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Open Source Idiom posted:Maybe it's a generational thing -- I suspect I'm a bit younger than some of the other posters ITT -- or it's just coming to the a lot later than the rest of you, or whatever, but this whole "the mobsters are actually psychopaths" revelation that you guys talk about continually being reminded of, I dunno, that's so completely different to my experience of the show? It's not a "revelation" to any of us that mobsters are "actually psychopaths" like it's the end of The Sixth Sense or something. When people say "the show is reminding us that they're psychopaths" the key word here is reminding. In other words, you get used to spending time with well drawn (i.e. realistically human) characters who face many of the same issues that real people do. The characters are funny and charismatic and relatable in their own ways, it's not just this thread. If the show was just a sober look at the ugly realities of life in and around the mafia, it wouldn't have become one of the most beloved and acclaimed shows of all time. Gaining affection for the characters was such a common experience that the creator of the show addressed it by putting more intentionally shocking acts of violence into the show and publicly stated his reason for doing that. Dealing with someone who's a bully that you love and hate at the same time, or having a disappointing gently caress-up kid, for example, are things that a lot of people can relate to so when we watch the characters dealing with things like that the mafia stuff gets temporarily pushed aside in our brains. It's the human drama that makes it all so compelling. Nobody is actually forgetting that people who commit murder are bad. Human Tornada fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Nov 13, 2020 |
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Nov 13, 2020 01:26
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Tony really ranks highly for me. The way he orders Chris to get clean and then relentlessly mocks him for being sober is one of the worst bits of manipulative behavior on the show. Tony's supposed to be like a father figure to Chris. He should be helping him manage his addiction and instead he humiliates him for it and then ultimately kills him when Chris fails to stay sober. That scene in Vegas where Tony attributes his luck changing to Chris being dead is really bad too. I think the fact that Tony does have glimpses of humanity makes his worst impulses hit harder. I expect Ralph and Richie to be pieces of poo poo because they don't seem to ever show anything else, but Tony sometimes displays his humanity only to be undone by his own pride and selfishness.
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Nov 13, 2020 01:29
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I mean I’m not sure why you need reminding, Sopranos never makes the mobsters sympathetic. Funny at times but sympathetic not really
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Nov 13, 2020 01:58
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Tony is the most evil character. None of them are truly "evil" in the cosmic sense, they're all people who have made choices that got them where they are and they're all trying to cope. What makes them detestable is how they prey on others while they feign morality*. Sil, Janice, Ralphie, Livia. The glimpses you see all reveal broken, angry people. So all things being equal, it's the kingpin who takes the brunt of the responsibility. He has the biggest house, built on the most pain. e. *A few times in the show after whathisname T-1000 gets rolled by Tony, there are close friends who are not in the Mafia but who are looking for one favor or another. None of them go through with it IIRC and in my opinion it's because we don't need to see the aftermath again. Tony did it to a highschool friend - now a family man - and his soldiers will do the same thing to anyone. Next time you watch one of those episodes, watch what the characters do. It's intentional and the effect is chilling. phasmid fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Nov 13, 2020 |
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Nov 13, 2020 02:05
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Does anyone else feel like Tony is presented as more sympathetic in the first season? At least compared to guys like Mikey Palmice and the pedophile soccer coach. Or little moments where he gives his share of the money he got from the sit-down he engineers with Uncle Junior, Johnny Sac, and Hesh. Also because of the way his panic attacks are framed and we get to know his history and guilt that comes about from his lifestyle sometimes. In the second season he became much more angry and arrogant from the stress, and I think he seems like more of a piece of poo poo overall because his behavior gets more and more out of control as the series goes on. Is this just because he's the protagonist and he was framed as more sympathetic compared to his adversaries, or was he always the same and we just got to know him better?
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Nov 13, 2020 02:48
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The_dude_abides posted:Does anyone else feel like Tony is presented as more sympathetic in the first season? At least compared to guys like Mikey Palmice and the pedophile soccer coach. Or little moments where he gives his share of the money he got from the sit-down he engineers with Uncle Junior, Johnny Sac, and Hesh. Also because of the way his panic attacks are framed and we get to know his history and guilt that comes about from his lifestyle sometimes. I think one of the things David Chase was trying to portray was how destructive that lifestyle is to everyone around Tony. He goes from having tons of family and friends in the season 1 to having almost no allies by the end of the series. Sure the war with Phil does a number on his crew but also how many people did Tony personally kill or alienate as a result of his actions?
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Nov 13, 2020 04:52
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Open Source Idiom posted:Maybe it's a generational thing -- I suspect I'm a bit younger than some of the other posters ITT -- or it's just coming to the a lot later than the rest of you, or whatever, but this whole "the mobsters are actually psychopaths" revelation that you guys talk about continually being reminded of, I dunno, that's so completely different to my experience of the show? If you weren't around when the boomers were in their prime I can see how you might not relate to the show to the same extent as us older posters. The show's as much about the toxicity and ultimate nihilism of suburban consumerism as it is about mobsters being shitheads
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Nov 13, 2020 12:55
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FWIW, the "Talkin Sopranos" podcast is a lot of fun and they seem to have fixed their audio issues. For some reason, the first 5 or so episodes were almost inaudible.
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Nov 13, 2020 19:28
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BiggerBoat posted:FWIW, the "Talkin Sopranos" podcast is a lot of fun and they seem to have fixed their audio issues. Does Steve let Michael get a word in nowadays? About three episodes in so far.
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Nov 13, 2020 19:49
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Vichan posted:Does Steve let Michael get a word in nowadays? About three episodes in so far. I guess. It seems balanced enough for me. TBH, I haven't checked it out in like 6 months because I could barely hear it so I don't really remember if Steve was stepping over Michael or what. I just remember liking what I could actually hear which wasn't much if I was driving, working or doing much of anything besides lying in bed at night.
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Nov 13, 2020 21:09
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I just realized that I haven't really seen James Gandolfini in anything else he's done besides the Sopranos, so whenever I watch an interview or something he's in, it's so jarring to hear his normal speaking voice. It's like...not even quite adjacent to his Tony voice, it's like a block away; similar, but completely different at the same time. I liked how Kevin Finnerty was somewhere between the two.
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Nov 14, 2020 01:48
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Ainsley McTree posted:I just realized that I haven't really seen James Gandolfini in anything else he's done besides the Sopranos True Romance and The Man Who Wasn't There stand out for me
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Nov 14, 2020 02:41
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He was good in Zero Dark Thirty, but he wasn't in it very much.
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Nov 14, 2020 02:48
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