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Sampatrick posted:if i see one more person post this map and then some hot takes about how rgv voters are racist im going to literally lose my mind Same, except with hot takes about how Joe Biden told latinos to vote for Trump while cackling about how he didn't need them or other such poo poo.
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Nov 21, 2020 20:19
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Yeah, I don't particularly agree with the text of the tweet, but man that's a lot of light blue and then a couple of big deep red areas. I guess you really wouldn't need a very big blue shift from 2016 for the democrats to win the presidency, seeing as how it was such a slim margin that highlighted how broken US federal-level democracy was. The congressional picture is more complicated, but nobody wants to look at that.
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Nov 21, 2020 20:30
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A huge part of the RGV vote is non-college-educated oil and gas workers making decent livings in perhaps the only field they can, who consequently like the guys who say "yes we love your field of work" vs the gormless semi-environmentalist noncommittal dems. I don't think running hard on the GND is necessarily going to convince all of these people either, because politicians saying "don't worry we'll take care of you after we tank your industry" still doesn't ring well. Especially from a national party that has all but abandoned the state. e: and I strongly suspect the trump voters in that map are not Bernie primary->Trump general voters but two largely different groups being racistly lumped into "south texas latino" with all other circumstances ignored. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 21:15
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I don't think we can be surprised when immigrants vote right. Not on this thread. Is something we see often in many countries and cultures.
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Nov 21, 2020 23:16
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Tei posted:I don't think we can be surprised when immigrants vote right. Not on this thread. I'd contest that, statistically speaking most migrants tend to vote left due to the precarity of their living conditions and general exposure to the unfairness of 'the system'. e: And the relative lack of attachment to the nationalist aspects of right-wing ideology, but then there's sometimes 'traditional' socially regressive cultural values which outweigh that. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 23:54
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Private Speech posted:I'd contest that, statistically speaking most migrants tend to vote left due to the precarity of their living conditions and general exposure to the unfairness of 'the system'.
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Nov 22, 2020 00:03
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Private Speech posted:I'd contest that, statistically speaking most migrants tend to vote left due to the precarity of their living conditions and general exposure to the unfairness of 'the system'. RGV has immigrants but most of the latinx people there, especially Trump-voters, aren't. Being latinx doesn't mean "immigrant" or "immigrant family" in Texas.
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Nov 22, 2020 00:04
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mobby_6kl posted:Well then do you have any actual statistics then? I won't pretend to know the actual distribution but it seems totally believable that migrants would vote right for many different reasons. E.g. they've actually very religious and conservative, bought into the "American dream", don't want any of the wrong migrants threatening their position, etc. Here's random quote from an academic article on migrant voting patterns in Switzerland: [quote=Migration Background and Voting Behavior in Switzerland: A Socio-Psychological Explanation*] Research so far has shown that immigrants’ voting behaviors deviate from that of the natives in a very systematic way: immigrants in Western Europe vote over-proportionally for candidates on the Left. This has been found for ethnic minorities in the UK (Heath et al. 2011; Messina 2007, 205; Sanders et al. 2013) as well as for the first and second generation in the Netherlands (Tillie 1998) and Norway (Bergh and Bjørklund 2011). The same is true for local elections in Brussels, where Moroccan and Turkish immigrants clearly preferred the Socialist Party (Teney et al. 2010, 283). The only exception is the EU-immigrants, whose voting behaviors are similar to those of Belgian natives. A similar pattern can be observed among immigrants in Germany, where naturalized citizens of Turkish descent clearly favor Left parties (the Social Democrats in particular), and immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe prefer the Christian Democrats (Wust 2004, 351). [/quote] The EU migrants logically not being exposed to anywhere as harsh conditions as ordinary migrants given freedom of movement.
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Nov 22, 2020 00:08
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mobby_6kl posted:Well then do you have any actual statistics then? I won't pretend to know the actual distribution but it seems totally believable that migrants would vote right for many different reasons. E.g. they've actually very religious and conservative, bought into the "American dream", don't want any of the wrong migrants threatening their position, etc. It depends on what your immigration system is designed to select for. If you do what Canada has done and preferentially poach older, and middle class people, then yeah they're going to be a hell of a lot more conservative.
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Nov 22, 2020 00:14
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:It depends on what your immigration system is designed to select for. If you do what Canada has done and preferentially poach older, and middle class people, then yeah they're going to be a hell of a lot more conservative. Canada: Ridings with most immigrants voted Liberal by a landslide – and other things we learned from federal election results Another study: [quote=Clarifying the Shrinking Liberal Core: Visible Minorities, Immigrants, and Vote Choice in Canada] Studies show that non-European immigrants are more likely to vote Liberal than Canadian-born voters, and that non-minority Canadians are less likely to support the Liberals than are visible minorities. ... Results show this support was rooted in positive affect – Canadians of non-European origin “like the Liberals” (Blais, 2005: 831), though these positive feelings cannot be explained by when minority immigrants arrived in Canada, or by Liberal incumbency (Blais, 2005). Though visible minority Canadians are significantly more likely to support expansive immigration policies, this issue does not appear to drive their electoral support of the Liberals. Though minorities report being more socially conservative than Canadians of European origin, issues related to this, notably same-sex marriage, do not appear to have a meaningful effect on changes in minority support for the Liberals from 2004 on (Gidengil et al., 2006). [/quote]
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Nov 22, 2020 00:25
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I've even found a study showing similar tendency for migrants in Eastern Europe (Czech Republic specifically, mainly because I can actually read the language). Albeit it's relatively small, which isn't entirely surprising given the equally small proportion of migrants with voting rights. Also there's a compound effect of sorts, where migrants both vote left themselves and increase the left vote in non-migrant population in the constituencies where they live. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 00:45
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Tei posted:I don't think we can be surprised when immigrants vote right. Not on this thread. I'm pretty sure most immigrants aren't allowed to vote at all in the US, so it's mostly irrelevant. A lot of work has been done into making it extremely hard to become a naturalized citizen, and there's a whole farce of maintaining that a lot of people who have been here for like 30 years are still only temporarily here. When people talk about the DREAM act granting permanent residency at least to people who were brought here as children, most of those people are grown-rear end adults with barely a memory of whatever land they came from. We tend to think of the people who are only just coming over now when we talk about immigration, but it seems like there's very intentionally a large amount of people who are basically kept as a permanent non-citizen underclass. It's not good.
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Nov 22, 2020 01:18
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If someone is to vote based on the precarity of their living situation, you need to provide them a party that offers meaningful change. The GOP offered a check and secure government jobs on the border. The Dems offered literally nothing, shortly after Bernie swept South Texas.
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Nov 22, 2020 01:24
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Railway gauges:  Railway lines:  Interactive version, it shows some museum lines but don't know if all of them are here https://travegeo.com/World_Railways
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Nov 22, 2020 01:39
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Platystemon posted:Hot take: giving countries the same name as their majority ethnic group is a bad idea. True. Hate all those Savonians, Ostrobothnians, Karelians, Tavastians, etc. Oh wait I was supposed to put "calling themselves Finns" at the end of that sentence? E: actually I'm pretty sure Finns aren't even the majority in Finland.
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Nov 22, 2020 02:25
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In the Medieval period "Finn" used to apply equally to the Saami as the settled Finns because to outsiders there was no perceivable difference. Finns in general were believed to be inherently gifted in magic.
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Nov 22, 2020 02:46
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I think we've seen the madness of rail gauge maps by now, but I don't remember this ever coming up. Those are the linked-up power grids throughout the world. As you can see, Europe put in the effort of getting a bunch of countries on the same page, while America is still a disunited mess. The irony of this is that Europe does have international disputes that can make the whole grid go screwy.   Also you can see how America doesn't even stay within state lines, although we are linked up with Canada who shares our mess. It's even worse when you look at specifics.  But we're not the only messy power country. You can see Australia, but it has the excuse of having a lot of wasteland to cover, much like how New Zealand doesn't connect its islands. Who doesn't have an excuse is a densely populated country that can't connect its bits.  What is your deal Japan.
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Nov 22, 2020 06:17
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Europe’s main‐tied clocks ran six minutes slow in 2018 due to a dispute between Kosovo and Serbia. Oops. Japan’s problem is that electrification emanated from two centres, Osaka and Tokyo. Osaka bought American equipment than ran on sixty hertz. Tokyo bought German equipment that ran on fifty.
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Nov 22, 2020 06:31
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Texas is just a mess.Platystemon posted:Texas’s grid has a total exchange capacity of 820 MW‐ish (less in hot weather) with the East and 286 MW with Mexico. The reason for this is that they said “gently caress FDR” in 1935. By keeping all power within the state, generators there could avoid coming under the oversight of the Federal Power Act. It’s not worth it for consumers, but Texans will cut off their nose to spite their face every time.
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Nov 22, 2020 06:53
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Wait, I'm pretty sure I read news articles about Netherlands buying mains power from Norway when they need extra. How does that work if, according to this map, they aren't hooked up? I thought there was a big undersea cable or something.
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Nov 22, 2020 09:30
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Carbon dioxide posted:Wait, I'm pretty sure I read news articles about Netherlands buying mains power from Norway when they need extra. How does that work if, according to this map, they aren't hooked up? I thought there was a big undersea cable or something. It’s direct current. Many undersea cables are, because with alternative current, there’s capacitive coupling with the ions in the water that saps efficiency from the cable.
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Nov 22, 2020 09:42
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SlothfulCobra posted:Also you can see how America doesn't even stay within state lines, although we are linked up with Canada who shares our mess. It's even worse when you look at specifics.
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Nov 22, 2020 09:49
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:Would combining the Eastern and Western interconnections really provide meaningful benefit? I'd think that at some point the economy of scale benefits reach diminishing returns. It might help shift some hydropower around.  The World Bank infrastructure map is pretty neat.
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Nov 22, 2020 12:39
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Kamrat posted:Railway gauges: What's the dot in the RoI
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Nov 22, 2020 14:08
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Milo and POTUS posted:What's the dot in the RoI quote:In Ireland, many secondary and industrial lines were built to 3 ft gauge Most are defunct
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Nov 22, 2020 15:08
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Platystemon posted:Japan’s problem is that electrification emanated from two centres, Osaka and Tokyo. Osaka bought American equipment than ran on sixty hertz. Tokyo bought German equipment that ran on fifty. Sort of related:   The reason why there are so many standards is primarily the time of adoption. Early systems (1890s–1930s) tended to be relatively low-voltage DC because AC circuit control was more difficult to implement. Germany and Sweden landed on 15 kV 16.7 Hz because that was easiest to do with rotary converters in the 1930s. Everyone else in Europe went with 25 kV 50 Hz since they only started putting up overhead lines in the 1960s, after high-voltage electronics made it possible.
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Nov 22, 2020 16:14
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Maybe someday Western Australia can get electricity... Those poor people in Perth 
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Nov 22, 2020 16:42
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   coeur de mon coeur, âme de mon âme, goddam y'all. Our electricity grid is me.
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Nov 22, 2020 16:57
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more like "Texas Intraconnection" amirite?
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Nov 22, 2020 17:21
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:
Quebecers have a lot in common with Texans. Some even wear cowboy hats in the same style.
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Nov 22, 2020 18:57
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Maybe someday Western Australia can get electricity... Those poor people in Perth 
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Nov 22, 2020 19:08
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My husband's dad remembers when he first saw electricity. He was about eight or nine and sleeping on the porch on the farm, and his uncle lit a lamp. His dad thought he was looking at Jesus. This is a guy who's still alive. I mean sure, he's almost 90, but he's still alive.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:11
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HookShot posted:My husband's dad remembers when he first saw electricity. He was about eight or nine and sleeping on the porch on the farm, and his uncle lit a lamp. His dad thought he was looking at Jesus. This is true. I work in a pretty rural area, not far at all from population centers but historically undeveloped, and the area wasn't electrified until World War II, and even then selectively. An enormous amount of what we think of as the Way Things Are is quite new, relatively speaking!
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Nov 22, 2020 19:31
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Everything about human life except loving and killing and eating seeds is pretty new
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Nov 22, 2020 20:46
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https://twitter.com/adam_tooze/status/1330571749100982272 The Parma to Ulm Axis
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Nov 22, 2020 20:59
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Before we had a national electric grid in Norway, the early adopters of electric power were small industry towns based around power-hungry factories (metalworks and such) in locations with easy hydro power (often where there used to be sawmills or something powered by mechanical hydro power). There, DC systems were the rule.
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Nov 22, 2020 21:37
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My parents bought a summer cottage up in a secluded valley in mid-northern sweden back in '89. The neighbors, an ancient couple, lived in the valley permanently and when the valley got electricity back in 1990-92 or so they were national news. I think they were the last people in the country to get electricity in their permanent residence? Finally they had TV!  Us stupid stockholmers next doors, we were just happy to get a non gas fridge and proper lamps installed. 
Threadkiller Dog fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 00:03
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Delthalaz posted:https://twitter.com/adam_tooze/status/1330571749100982272 Is Barilla cheap in Germany? I'm always confused when I see it in supermarkets here in the UK, because it appears to be of roughly the same quality as the supermarkets' own-brand cheap pasta, while being only very marginally cheaper than the bronze die stuff which is actually better. I can't work out who the heck would buy their pasta.
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Nov 23, 2020 00:57
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Reveilled posted:Is Barilla cheap in Germany? I'm always confused when I see it in supermarkets here in the UK, because it appears to be of roughly the same quality as the supermarkets' own-brand cheap pasta, while being only very marginally cheaper than the bronze die stuff which is actually better. I can't work out who the heck would buy their pasta. It’s dirt cheap in the US, even
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Nov 23, 2020 21:08
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trader joes pasta is half the price of barilla and tastes the same checkmate barailures
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Nov 23, 2020 21:46
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