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The only thing looking forward before Inazuma releases is Dendro imho
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Dec 1, 2020 17:40
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we want the
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Dec 1, 2020 17:42
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I feel like I'm just gonna pull on whatever banner is available and I get what I get. If I get a Zhongli, cool, it's how I wound up with a Childe. I like Childe well enough, I'm sure Zhong will be cool too if I pull him. There's probably a good chance I'm not even playing this next month, so may as well get the dopamine of pulls now, haha.
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Dec 1, 2020 17:42
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I'm reserving judgment on Zhongli until I see smarter people feeling out his kit. The nerfs from beta hurt but the fact the shield was left alone suggests they perhaps feel the shield alone is strong enough to justify him, and they may be right if it's sufficiently good and later content rewards shield use. Also curious to see the numbers on his Geo particle generation and whether he can be easily built to burst on cooldown. Even if his damage output is underwhelming, locking enemies out of the fight 33% of the time while doing respectable damage could be great. Of course Venti arguably locks things out much longer, but Zhongli appears to be able to petrify midsized pull-resistant enemies like the big hilichurls and heavier Fatui. His numbers speak poorly to keeping him on the field, but if he rotates in to pop shield and meteor and then dips until 12s later when he does it all again then he could be an amazing non-greedy support. I question whether he can get 40 energy in 12 seconds when not on the field in a non-Geo team, but if I'm wrong then I am super hilariously wrong and he's incredible in a way approaching, but not quite, the level of Venti (unless shield meta becomes a big deal and then he could be as good or better maybe).
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Dec 1, 2020 17:47
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Something I haven't seen in Zhongli theorycraft discussions is how his exceptional shield generating ability can enable a DPSer to run Bolide. This would be especially impactful for bow users, who aren't usually able to stack multipliers on their Normal/Charged attacks. Combine it with Rust, and you get a whopping +80% DMG on Normal/Charged attacks (+95% with two Geos) while also being pretty tanky. Catalyst users are also affected, but to a lesser extent due to not currently having a weapon with Normal/Charged DMG amp. If you run two Geos, then the other one can run Petra for the ele DMG boost. Most notably, Tartaglia can take full advantage of this setup since his attacks will do Hydro damage in melee, giving him an insane +130% damage on autoattacks. Klee can also benefit from dual Geo, but we don't have a good catalyst yet for that route. You could also still run dual Geo to support a machinegun Fischl, but replacing Petra with Noblesse. I think Geo resonance teams have a lot of potential with attack multiplier stacking and shields, but we need more DPSers that can take full advantage. They do seem to be pushing shields more and more, so I think Geo's time to shine will come. EDIT: oh wait, Zhongli doesn't have to run Bolide, so dual Geo will always be one running Noblesse and the other Petra. gandlethorpe fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 18:05
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The real reason to roll for zhong's banner besides his zhong is getting C2 Xinyan. Her burst gets 100% crit chance which activates her C1's buff automatically.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:05
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gandlethorpe posted:Something I haven't seen in Zhongli theorycraft discussions is how his exceptional shield generating ability can enable a DPSer to run Bolide. This would be especially impactful for bow users, who aren't usually able to stack multipliers on their Normal/Charged attacks. Combine it with Rust, and you get a whopping +80% DMG on Normal/Charged attacks (+95% with two Geos) while also being pretty tanky. Catalyst users are also affected, but to a lesser extent due to not currently having a weapon with Normal/Charged DMG amp. Bolide is certainly easier to set up than VV, but Diona already gives pretty good uptime and is a healer on top of it. You could consider a Bolide superconduct comp but glad 4 piece is close to the same thing on any non-bow user, meaning it would only really make sense with superconduct Fischl. And even in that case Cryo resonance is generally better than geo resonance assuming you've have plenty of cryo application. No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 18:08
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One thing I noticed is that Zhongli's C1 may literally double his power. Having two steles out could be huge if the effects they have on constructs stack. Of course this begs the question of whether you want to whale for his C1. But without being able to test him out in gameplay yet it seems like he's a lot like Ning in that the constellations really change up the gameplay. Personally, if the C1 is necessary to optimize his damage then I feel like locking something that vital behind his first constellation is immensely lovely. It'd be understandable if he was a 4 star, but he's a limited time 5 star that has only a 50% chance of being obtained per first pity. Barring dumb luck you'd have to spend insane amounts of money for a game to get to his C1. There's also the fact that his C2 gives the Jade Shield on use of the burst. Which could be an utter game breaker as a brawler type of dps if you were fortunate enough to have artifacts that have attack, energy recharge, and hp together. Doubly so if you could get his crit and crit damage up. At that point he's got built in talents and constellations that would put Tartaglia and Mona's burst DPS to shame. And that's before you factor in Ning's 15% geo damage booster and dragon tales, which can give another 48% damage boost when switching to him for his burst. Dude would rip poo poo up and possibly be even past Mona if you got that ability depending on how it triggers. Edit: If this turns out to be right then between him and Ning i'm starting to think that Geo is the whaling element. She needs her double skill constellation to get the most out of her. And without at least her C1 she is very underwhelming even outside of that. The other 5 stars mostly have sub par constellations compared to 4 stars unless you want to whale hard on them. Him requiring at least a double pull to be extremely useful is nasty and it had better not be a sign of things to come. He is possibly capable of HP burst dpsing right out the gate due to his tier 5 talent though. Which may be ridiculous depending on how well his HP damage boosting talent for his burst scales compared to an attack artifact. His burst also petrifies enemies inside of shields. Or at least, Abyss mages. If it does it to Fatui too he'd be great for those Abyss Floors where they set them up in gimmicky ways to ensure you get stun locked or blasted down if you don't take one out ASAP. Archonex fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 18:18
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No Wave posted:The issue is because of how +dmg math works Venerer will often give a bigger damage amp than Bolide (especially in the rust case above) and you can equip your dps with their own artifacts. In Tart's case specifically his 4 piece hydro set will (allegedly) give +40% damage on his E normals which is already better than Bolide given that he'll also get 15% towards his Q.. Yeah, Anemo support is the gold standard, so Geo has a lot to compete with. Still, I think it shows potential at approaching Anemo's effectiveness. If it can get close, then it becomes a matter of what the individual heroes bring to the table. For example, Geo MC can give 10% CRIT Rate to compete with Cryo resonance, Ningguang can buff Zhongli's burst with her screen, high constellation Noelle can be sub-DPS when Tart's melee is on cooldown, etc.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:31
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Enough of this meaningless discussion. I haven't had a chance to try Zhongli yet; from D(Klee/Qiqi/Diona) to S(Diluc/Tartaglia), where does he rank on the height tier list?
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Dec 1, 2020 18:31
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Selane posted:Enough of this meaningless discussion. I haven't had a chance to try Zhongli yet; from D(Klee/Qiqi/Diona) to S(Diluc/Tartaglia), where does he rank on the height tier list? Slightly taller than Childe
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Dec 1, 2020 18:33
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Another thing that occurs to me is that Zhongli's stele could be huge depending on future character releases. Since it resonates together with other geo constructs it could cause a massive AOE or even do any number of things depending on new geo constructs. He seems a bit like an enabler in that respect. But again, unless you have Ning or want to run a Geo traveler i'm not sure how well you're served by it.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:34
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Does Zhong even work that well on a ning team? Fitting two geo on a team doesn't seem great for your reactions
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Dec 1, 2020 18:36
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I thought Ning teams just gave up on reactions anyways.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:39
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I guess more Geo is good if you can't be hosed to do reactions and just want to purely powerhouse your DPS.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:40
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Maybe the Abyss buff is them testing out actually implementing that one loading screen tip that says crystallize shards deal damage.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:42
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Andrast posted:Does Zhong even work that well on a ning team? Fitting two geo on a team doesn't seem great for your reactions Assuming you aren't going for a burst type traveler (Who can give crit chance. Which would potentially even out some of the deficiences of that brawler build I mentioned.) then yeah, she'd possibly be okay. Possibly great, depending on how this "resonance" effect works on geo constructs. Her construct is, all things considered, huge compared to the one other example we have when it comes to skills. If it resonates like how the Geostasis/whatever boss does then you're talking about a massive range for hits if it scales with size. You'd want her in a team for wide range attacks or boosting his damage if you aren't running Barbara as a dragonslayer healer. The big problem is that he's like Tartaglia in that his actual traits aren't really able to be plotted out that easily in the skill text they give you. They don't really explain how this resonating effect works that well. For all we know the geo traveler's burst field counts as a construct. Which would be even more insane, since it has a massive size compared to even Ning's skill. So until a week or so in it's going to be hard for us to theory craft on whether he's secretly trashy compared to other 5 stars, secretly a whaling trap, or actually insanely powerful. Edit: If the resonance effect applies per construct in terms of an entirely separate AOE then you'd want the geo traveler for dpsing tightly packed groups of mobs or bosses since he can have multiple constructs out with his skill. If his Stele's each apply a separate resonance AOE effect to the geo constructs per stele then his C1 is some serious whaling bullshit. Since that would mean that you're sacrificing an immense amount of damage for bosses, the Abyssal Floors, and pretty much any fight you can currently have by not having two steles out creating resonating AOE's with not just each other but also the geo traveler's constructs. If this is the case he's literally the first 5 star we have that pretty much demands you get at least his c1 to get the most out of him. Which is a loving terrible trend to set. If the resonance affect's AOE size scales off of the size of the construct then Ning might be useful for wide range AOEing. But she won't be as good for DPSing unless you're building for damage stacking via buffs. And even then the traveler may be more useful depending on how much crit you have. That's about all the possibilities I can think of from what I can see so far. He's a lot like Tartaglia in that his skill descriptions do pretty much nothing to explain whether he'd be useful or not. In Tartaglia's case you have to look at his last unlocked talent and extrapolate off of that to realize how powerful he can be, along with checking his actual skill damage and how it levels up to realize that he's right up there with Mona in the insane burst DPS department. Only Tartaglia's possibly slightly better since he can get about 1/5th of his energy back depending on the two types of burst he has and whether or not you're willing to sacrifice a lot of damage (His melee also applies an explosion to every mob with riptide on it on top of the massive damage) if you're fighting a group in exchange for spamming it. Zhongli is worse in that they don't specify a lot of things that really do need to be specified to know how best to DPS with him. The only way to tell how useful he is to talk to someone who played him and researched this stuff or by actually having someone play him and checking it out. Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 18:44
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I'd always think double geo would be super strong with damage that dont give any fucks about reactions but its just not viable currently in a lot of content that puts you against 3 different types of fatui unless they add an universal fatui shield stripper character or add some sort of reaction that neutralizes shields regardless of element. Like geo + dendro or something stupid.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:57
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Archonex posted:If the resonance affect's AOE size scales off of the size of the construct then Ning might be useful for wide range AOEing. But she won't be as good for DPSing. Looks like it's a constant size around the construct's center Cao Ni Ma posted:I'd always think double geo would be super strong with damage that dont give any fucks about reactions but its just not viable currently in a lot of content that puts you against 3 different types of fatui unless they add an universal fatui shield stripper character or add some sort of reaction that neutralizes shields regardless of element. Like geo + dendro or something stupid. This is just an issue in general that I hope they address. Every non-Pyro/Cryo/Hydro, and to a lesser extent Electro, you put on your team is a liability when it comes to shield breaking. It really discourages taking Anemo and Geo together, and whenever Dendro joins the party it would be affected as well. It also slightly discourages running Pyro/Cryo/Hydro/Electro resonance, because you'll always miss one of the shield-countering elements. gandlethorpe fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 18:58
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Me, just wanting to finally get the popsicle boy that I have absolutely no resources to put into:
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Dec 1, 2020 19:18
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My speculative/gimmick team build (given who I have) is going to be Ning DPS, Zhongli SubDPS, Mona SubDPS, Diona Healer. With petrify and freeze disable (and geo breaking boost), Mona's decoy, lots of big area damage potential, and massive shield gen, I feel like it's got potential to be interesting, even if it's assuredly not going to touch the DPS of fire teams or cluster mobs as well as Anemo. I am also obviously going to run some domains with Geo family Ning, ZL, Noelle, Geo MC just because. gandlethorpe posted:This is just an issue in general that I hope they address. Every non-Pyro/Cryo/Hydro, and to a lesser extent Electro, you put on your team is a liability when it comes to shield breaking. It really discourages taking Anemo and Geo together, and whenever Dendro joins the party it would be affected as well. It also slightly discourages running Pyro/Cryo/Hydro/Electro resonance, because you'll always miss one of the shield-countering elements. Agreed. I can generally run over overworld fatui trios running Ning/Mona/Noelle/Fish by insta-popping the thunder hammer dudes with bursts/charged attacks, but I've yet to run a double geo team in abyss 7+.
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Dec 1, 2020 19:20
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Tbf anemo and geo seem designed to not be run with each other. You can't crystallize anemo and you can't swirl geo. Alongside any other issues geo's biggest obstacle is that anemo is so insane.
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Dec 1, 2020 19:22
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Speaking of Zhongli, they put out the usual guide video for him if people want a more detailed look at him in the few hours before the banner finally goes live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRXhkjan52A
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Dec 1, 2020 19:29
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geez, that zhongli personal quest was a massive tonal shift compared to all the rest being kinda silly romps with a character. guess it's fitting that the god of capitalism was all about crushing those in his way and ~no room for weakness or kindness~
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Dec 1, 2020 19:31
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Well, I ended up getting c1 Zhongli while chasing Razor constellations. I think I would've been happier with like, Mona, but I'm not going to complain about getting a 5* at 25 on the pity timer.Avynte posted:geez, that zhongli personal quest was a massive tonal shift compared to all the rest being kinda silly romps with a character. guess it's fitting that the god of capitalism was all about crushing those in his way and ~no room for weakness or kindness~ Total war do be like that tho.
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Dec 1, 2020 19:33
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I kinda want Zhongli for aesthetics, but I don't see myself using him on combat.... hmm, choices choices.
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Dec 1, 2020 19:59
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With how combat is designed in this game, you could probably get by for the rest of the game's life with character's already released unless they start adding new mechanics. This is the main reason to pull for Zhongli (if he's not stupidly broken as is) because he's a great shield/geo character.
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Dec 1, 2020 20:01
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MarquiseMindfang posted:Total war do be like that tho. tho the take is a bit confusing in relation to this quest since the salt goddess was murdered by her own followers for sucking
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Dec 1, 2020 20:03
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AG3 posted:I kinda want Zhongli for aesthetics, but I don't see myself using him on combat.... hmm, choices choices. Yeah, I just think he's a really cool character. Right now it kind of looks like he'll be a decent support with shields and bursting. He and Sucrose can share a slot on my team I think. The archaic petra will boost Klee's damage in a similar way to VV.
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Dec 1, 2020 20:53
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looks like someone's already cleared 12-3 abyss with Zhongli and geo traveler https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Ny4y1S79E level 70 and C0. *edit* and apparently a whole 900 attack before Bennet, lol. Seems like those shields and CC really let you punch above your weight YES bread fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 21:01
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YES bread posted:looks like someone's already cleared 12-3 abyss with Zhongli and geo traveler https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Ny4y1S79E  @ 1:20To be fair, the Abyss bonus is very biased towards Zhongli, but nice to see people showing off his potential.
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Dec 1, 2020 21:20
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Selane posted:Enough of this meaningless discussion. I haven't had a chance to try Zhongli yet; from D(Klee/Qiqi/Diona) to S(Diluc/Tartaglia), where does he rank on the height tier list?
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Dec 1, 2020 21:25
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Nakar posted:Diluc and Tartaglia aren't the same height. Diluc's forehead is level with Tartaglia's nose. That's like several centimeters shorter! Diluc manlet confirmed
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Dec 1, 2020 21:26
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gandlethorpe posted:
my favorite part is the level 20 spear
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Dec 1, 2020 21:27
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No Wave posted:Zhong's combat noises are wtf... I just did his quest and yeah drat. He's way more guttural than I was expecting.
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Dec 1, 2020 21:39
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DoT seems really clunky but I'm curious how it is at C1 where each stele causes its own resonance with other constructs (but not each other). And with a fully offensive kit. If enemies are dumb enough to stand in it and it generates enough energy, it could be something.
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Dec 1, 2020 21:39
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I just want country rock fire woman, imo
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Dec 1, 2020 21:51
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I have absolutely no experience with gacha games so take this thought with all the seriousness that it deserves. I wonder if they're planning on adding additional weapon types to the game in the years to come.
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Dec 1, 2020 21:59
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RareAcumen posted:I have absolutely no experience with gacha games so take this thought with all the seriousness that it deserves. 100%
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Dec 1, 2020 22:00
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 10:17 |
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I don't think its particularly guaranteed. But I could see it happening.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:02
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