|
And Tyler Too! posted:It really depends on where the missiles are coming from. If it's just two opposing fleets meeting head on the Corvettes will shoot down everything in their path since they have to close to swarm/picket range anyways. If there's a secondary fleet coming at you from an angle then there's really no telling since this game's AI is really fucky about how it wants your ships to handle multiple threats, but if you're using Hangar Cruisers/Battleships their baked-in Point D+Strike Craft should help take the edge off. ah ok cool. i usually put L weapons on them when i can but i guess that's a stupid idea, i should be putting point defense on them to protect against this. their secondary forward damage output probably isn't very high anyway since i'm just sitting in the back plinking away with X and strike craft, which waaaaaay outranges the 120 of L proton missiles
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 04:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 05:28 |
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:Yeah. Strike Craft being a straight upgrade doesn't help. I hear this parroted a lot. Actual empirical evidence suggests strongly otherwise, unless someone's been doing some tests you'd like to link?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 08:41
|
|
|
I only really terraform tomb worlds because I don't like messing up perfectly good biospheres just because my guys aren't in love with them. And by the time I roll the terraform candidate tech I'm deep in the gently caress this I've too many planets already hole.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 10:54
|
|
|
Serephina posted:I hear this parroted a lot. Actual empirical evidence suggests strongly otherwise, unless someone's been doing some tests you'd like to link? I think you misunderstand. The point isn't that Strike Craft is stronger than PD. The point is that PD only shoots missiles and Strike Craft. Strike Craft shoots missiles, Strike Craft AND other ships. Even if it's less efficient at the PD job, it still does more things overall, therefore making Strike Craft strictly superior. Especially because PD is a "rate of fire" problem anyway, so it doesn't matter if Strike Craft is worse at it if you can just have more Strike Craft.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 12:54
|
|
|
I end up terraforming a lot. I usually end up picking up one or two extra species to cover a few types, but terraforming can remove some bad modifiers. When I'm not just making a straight up gaia/hive/machine world out of them, anyway.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 12:55
|
|
|
PD does shoot at other ships, very poorly of course. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 13:53
|
|
|
Poil posted:PD does shoot at other ships, very poorly of course. Oh, huh.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 13:55
|
|
|
Range: practically adjacent
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 14:03
|
|
|
While Strike Craft battleships probably still aren't on the same level as sniper battleships, there is something very enjoyable about sending A CLOUD OF BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSS to send the enemy apart.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 14:05
|
|
|
There are three things you can put in weapon slots: 1) Shiny Lines 2) Angry Bees 3) Point Defence From this we can conclude Point Defence is stupid.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 15:44
|
|
|
Also shiny balls.GunnerJ posted:Range: practically adjacent
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 15:53
|
|
|
I was getting a bit frustrated by planetary management pre-Federations so I never ended up picking it up but the Dev Diaries have me really excited for what is to come. My favorite part of the game has long been the exploration/discovery aspect and it sounds like they are ramping that up big time. Also the changes to population carrying capacity are incredibly welcome. This has been a major complaint of mine in many 4x games since Rome TW 1 when population control meant drowning civilian regiments in the Mediterranean.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 16:19
|
|
|
Every time this thread has ship design theory craft chat I feel the urge to reinstall Sword of the Stars.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 16:24
|
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:It's a videogame about spacemans in spaceboats. Hell, I have nothing against it. The more freedom a ship designer gives you, the better. After thinking about this some more, I believe it's worth it to ask the devs to add more options to the designer. I'm not sure if you'd want to wait that long, aren't there any mods which allow this kind of thing? To be honest, I put PD like flak guns on my carriers because I watched too much Battlestar Galactica as a kid. MrL_JaKiri posted:The carrier segments already have support weapons like PD on them Thanks for you agreeing with me?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 16:25
|
|
|
I usually either go spinal/arty/arty or spinal/hangar/arty on my battleships. Often a mix of the two. The spinal weapons give you a really nice devastating opening at long range, and the arty followup is fantastic. Putting some carriers into the fleet means that point defense needs are covered, and the small guns on the hangar section can also help deal with smaller ships that get too close.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 16:27
|
|
|
I tried out the Necroids as a slaver-type barbaric despoilers and it was immediately problematic. They give you two planets of primitives to conquer at the beginning but when I did that the enslaved natives almost immediately went into unrest because the happiness for a planet full of slaves is inherently bad, and there's an automatic stability penalty for invading a pre-FTL civilization, then the slaves start "radicalizing" which further shoves stability into the negatives. I'm not really getting these lich kings. Deuce fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Dec 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 16:59
|
|
|
Deuce posted:I tried out the Necroids as a slaver-type barbaric despoilers and it was immediately problematic. They give you two planets of primitives to conquer at the beginning but when I did that the enslaved natives almost immediately went into unrest because the happiness for a planet full of slaves is inherently bad, and there's an automatic stability penalty for invading a pre-FTL civilization, then the slaves start "radicalizing" which further shoves stability into the negatives. Just resettle two of your main pop on there and that will pretty much cure any instability unless the planet had like 20+ people on it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 17:23
|
|
|
By Necroids I assume you mean the Necrophage origin, which is pretty much set up for you to immediately purge anything that isn't your initial slave species. By default, you will have "Necrophage" as your purging option, which will convert species marked as Undesirables into your main Necrophage species (the ruler class) at a nearly 1:1 ratio. After that, you just transfer one or two of your slave species to the planet to make sure their population grows at an accelerated rate compared to your Necrophage species which grows, intentionally, at a snail's pace. The other reason for doing this is that converting your slave species to the ruler Necrophage species with the Chamber of Elevation is too slow at the start (3 pops every 10 years). You won't have enough specialists that way. Eventually you will have the option to upgrade your Chambers of Elevation to be 7 pops/10 years + 1 for every 50 pops on a planet (so 7-9 realistically) at which point you'll struggle to keep enough slaves around to convert. Until then, though, taking over a planet and purging everything on it into your Necrophage species is the way to go.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 20:15
|
|
|
Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:By Necroids I assume you mean the Necrophage origin, which is pretty much set up for you to immediately purge anything that isn't your initial slave species. By default, you will have "Necrophage" as your purging option, which will convert species marked as Undesirables into your main Necrophage species (the ruler class) at a nearly 1:1 ratio. After that, you just transfer one or two of your slave species to the planet to make sure their population grows at an accelerated rate compared to your Necrophage species which grows, intentionally, at a snail's pace. Man I didn't even see that you could purge guys into the main species. At this point I'm not even sure that's a good idea, I've been raiding my neighbors and have way more slaves than specialist slots.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2020 23:23
|
|
|
Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:By Necroids I assume you mean the Necrophage origin, which is pretty much set up for you to immediately purge anything that isn't your initial slave species. By default, you will have "Necrophage" as your purging option, which will convert species marked as Undesirables into your main Necrophage species (the ruler class) at a nearly 1:1 ratio. After that, you just transfer one or two of your slave species to the planet to make sure their population grows at an accelerated rate compared to your Necrophage species which grows, intentionally, at a snail's pace.  I have somehow avoided going xenophobe with them that's incredible. Also don't be sad that your main pop has a minor penalty, their reduced upkeep makes them far better than even the most perfectly traited slave.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 00:55
|
|
|
Deuce posted:Man I didn't even see that you could purge guys into the main species. At this point I'm not even sure that's a good idea, I've been raiding my neighbors and have way more slaves than specialist slots. Your main necrophage species can also fill worker roles just fine, they're not limited to ruler/specialist. This will happen eventually when you accidentally run out of slaves to convert on, say, your capital planet in the mid-to-late game. Pro-tip: create at least one, maybe two thrall worlds in the mid-game to have a steady supply of your slave species to send to planets that run out of them from converting via the Chamber of Elevation/Apotheosis. ... Stellaris makes you say and write some weird poo poo sometimes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 10:33
|
|
|
This may have been changed but is it still advantageous to get as many migration treaties as possible so you can get extra pops? I know pop growth is powerful but I don''t know if Federations put the kabosh in turning your demographics pie chart into a wheel of fortune.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 12:30
|
|
|
SkySteak posted:This may have been changed but is it still advantageous to get as many migration treaties as possible so you can get extra pops? I know pop growth is powerful but I don''t know if Federations put the kabosh in turning your demographics pie chart into a wheel of fortune. Kinda. If someone has pops that like cold planets and your species likes hot planets, it's good to get a migration treaty - that way you can use their pops to colonise otherwise-not-worth-colonising cold planets without having the cost and time of terraforming them. I don't think migration treaties directly increase your pop growth much, but they're useful to get pops with abilities yours lack.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 12:41
|
|
|
Immigration does help your pop growth. A little bit. The maximum appears to ridiculously low, it's basically completely unexplained (It has something to do with your immigration attractiveness?) and it's never worth the effort.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 12:44
|
|
|
SkySteak posted:This may have been changed but is it still advantageous to get as many migration treaties as possible so you can get extra pops? I know pop growth is powerful but I don''t know if Federations put the kabosh in turning your demographics pie chart into a wheel of fortune. You should be judicious since Immigration Pull works both ways. if you have a bunch of worlds that look good to your Migration Pact partner's species, then yes, you'll get their pops moving in, but if they have some nice planets you could see your pops move out to them. Secondly, Migration Pacts cost Influence per turn, so enough of them will cut into your Influence growth and your ability to do the other things that Influence applies to....like expanding your empire. Finally, migrating pops bring their beliefs with them. Got a Fanatic Materialist empire with robots everywhere and the last thing you want is a Spiritualist faction popping up and being pissed about all the 'bots? Better be careful who you have a Migration Pact with! Personally, I just do Migration with a couple of neighbors long enough to get a pop or two for each of the biomes I don't have (if I'm playing Wet, then a Dry and a Frozen) so I can colonize everything, then shut down the Pacts and use the influence elsewhere.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 12:51
|
|
|
Yeah, the real reason to not get immigration treaties for long is the influence cost. Influence is super-precious in the early game, and should be the main limiter on your expansion.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 12:58
|
|
|
Is there much comparison with Refugees? I know I roleplayed a 'good guys' Eglitarian empire once for fun, opened the borders to everyone, and suddenly found myself with a totally outrageous flood of presumably refugees (?, how can you tell vs migration?) as a few exterimators went at it to each other and everyone else. I never bothered looking too deep in the mechanics behind it, I just enjoyed it for what it was that run.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 14:35
|
|
|
Serephina posted:Is there much comparison with Refugees? I know I roleplayed a 'good guys' Eglitarian empire once for fun, opened the borders to everyone, and suddenly found myself with a totally outrageous flood of presumably refugees (?, how can you tell vs migration?) as a few exterimators went at it to each other and everyone else. I never bothered looking too deep in the mechanics behind it, I just enjoyed it for what it was that run. Well, refugees are... refugees. They run away from purges. Migration is passive and largely another modifier to pop growth.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 14:37
|
|
|
So refugees are actual pop heads moving around, and not a growth modifier? Doesn't that make the logic behind migration seem kinda... silly?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 14:48
|
|
|
Serephina posted:So refugees are actual pop heads moving around, and not a growth modifier? Doesn't that make the logic behind migration seem kinda... silly? Yes. Migration is dumb. Do you remember the migration modifying traits? They don't lower or raise the percentage on the other end. Nomadic spawns "migrating" pops from the void, Sedentary has them disappear into the void.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 14:52
|
|
|
God the mechanics of this game are such a trash fire.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 15:03
|
|
|
Serephina posted:So refugees are actual pop heads moving around, and not a growth modifier? Doesn't that make the logic behind migration seem kinda... silly? yes. migration used to be actual pop movement also in the tile days and i never understood what the point of abstracting it was, except maybe (probably) performance concerns
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 16:05
|
|
|
It was infuriating when a pop staffing an important building was the one migrating, for one, and it wouldn't be any less annoying in the new economic system.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 16:32
|
|
|
Wouldn't the solution being the game to re-assigning pops after the migration was complete? Just on that planet once the migration completes mind you, not every pop in the game every literal second, unlike what we had up until recently. Jesus.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 17:31
|
|
|
Serephina posted:Wouldn't the solution being the game to re-assigning pops after the migration was complete? Just on that planet once the migration completes mind you, not every pop in the game every literal second, unlike what we had up until recently. Jesus. Even with reassignment, an actual currently working pop migrating away would mean a job that was previously filled is now empty. It might not be that specific one, but it's still a planet randomly (?) shrinking. I think emigration/immigration as a growth modifier is fine, pops aren't pops anyway, they're like a billion people each, so immigration and emigration impacting how long it takes for one billion more peeps to tick over is sensible. Not having it match up on both sides is odd, but the alternative might be more computationally intensive or lead to weird interactions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2020 22:26
|
|
|
Still getting used to this game! Had one of the mercenaries I hadn't met (due to being boxed behind two unfriendly jerks) unite around the Great Khan and start tearing the poo poo out of one of the previously-mentioned assholes. The problem was upon eviscerating their empire and turning them into a vassal they poked into my buddies next door who I founded a federation with which was NOT cool. I have played a couple dozen hours so I decided to reinforce a good choke point starbase and even built a stronghold on a whim. I sent my fleet through my buddy's space and started rampaging through the Khan's territory when... the Khan himself appeared in my space. I thought I had good visibility on my empire and nearby but suddenly the "chosen" and another fleet appeared in my territory and while my main fleet could probably handle it they were 7-8 jumps away pushing out of my buddy's territory. Side note - how did this happen? Did my sensor network fail me or can the Khan pull this nonsense? They pushed right into my empire through what I had lightly fortified early on as a "choke point" but they became my best buds so I only gave it a token reinforcement once the Khan showed up. I quickly ran in and tried to build a planetary shield but it was too late... the Starhold was destroyed and the Khan was bombarding the good citizens of Starvault III, a cross-species haven of research and development  They invaded and my fleet was still light years away. The "invasion fleet" I had built taunted me with their ability to jump drive back while my fleet meandered the looooong way around. Bombardment began. I plaintively watched as my nearby star-bases churned out 1-2k of destroyers and corvettes. All was lost. The Khan invaded Starvault and landed troops on the surface... Only to find it fortified. The stronghold I had built there and upgraded on a whim I had also upgraded into a fortress. The Khan's troops landed to find an army of five different species, robots, and ascended synthetics entrenched to a degree I didn't know was possible. While my fleet was out gallivanting about the General I had installed on Starvault was apparently studying The Blade. The invading armies slowed, faltered, and then were pushed back. The invasion was finished. In the months this bought suddenly the planetary shield I had panic-bought came online. The Khan, unable to move onward, bombarded the planet, but the shield held. Devastation grew. The armies on the surface dug in. And suddenly just as stability on the planet was cracking my fleet appeared in system and the Khan literally disappeared. (not the event where they retreat I got that later, the entire fleet just disappeared, is that a feature?) This is what makes a game like this so drat good. I had the Siege of Starvault where my generals and armies became heroes and it wrote this wonderful story that was so compelling. I'm really glad I turned on iron-man because my first instinct was to reload and figure out where this massive fleet came from but I couldn't. Next time I'm avenging the siege of Starvault and the the Khan won't know what hit them. (but seriously do I need to leave half my fleet behind for teleporting Khan's Chosen?)
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 06:42
|
|
|
Were there any nearby wormholes? Marauders can use those to get around.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 06:53
|
|
|
They probably found a path via wormholes. They can't actually teleport, but they do have full knowledge of every wormhole path. As for where he went, it's either a bug, he died (but you would have gotten an event notification and the fleet would have stayed) or he wormholed back when you weren't looking. But it sounds most like a bug.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 06:53
|
|
|
Do you think we could sign a petition or something to get the new economy setup now with the rest coming whenever?
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 13:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 05:28 |
|
|
Of course. It won't have any effect but we can all sign petitions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2020 14:04
|
|
