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Rookersh posted:Wait. I think the most stable mage we've seen in the game was the Avvar guy in Jaws of Hakkon who was just completely OK with the spirits. And even he was weird as gently caress and their system still resulted in the outcast who was afraid to go on without her helper spirit.
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Dec 10, 2020 22:20
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marshmallow creep posted:In previous editions of this debate, the traditional retort is "that's just Chantry propaganda." And if we put aside what we see Tevinter slavers willing to do casually in Origins, even Tevinter homeboy Dorian admits that this stuff happens, just behind closed doors. The Chantry propaganda part is mostly just saying its public, but in actual fact the rules of society say you can't just do that out in the open. Yeah like I'm not the faschy dude who thinks Templar atrocities are right or anything. But gently caress man Tevinter is just the Mage problem in reverse. Rather then a few Mages being oppressed to protect the many, it's the many being oppressed to benefit a few Mages. If people want a fairytale, I'm not going to complain. I get it. Games are an escapism for many, and the last thing you want is to make a 3 game choice like free the Mages and have it blow up on your face. Just don't play the card that it was the smart move because Bioware bent over backwards and rewrote the epilogue to add the "perfect" escapism ending for it.
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Dec 10, 2020 22:26
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I do hope DA4 explains what the gently caress the black city is. Cory said it was already black when they got there
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Dec 10, 2020 22:56
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VostokProgram posted:I do hope DA4 explains what the gently caress the black city is. Cory said it was already black when they got there I thought we learned it was Arlathan in Tresspasser.
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Dec 10, 2020 22:58
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One of the spectrum is to reform the Circle and Templar Order, but there's no guarantee people in the system will use the dangers of Magic to erode Mage rights and we're back to the same system that brought about the Mage/Templar War in the first place The other end is letting Mages self-govern, but that also runs the risk of Blood Mages taking over and you get another Tevinter
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Dec 10, 2020 22:59
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It's why Vivienne actually ends up being the best Divine for the mage issue, actually- she's actually not as conservative as she likes to pretend to be (the real reactionary in the party is Cassandra). Vivienne's Circle remains a branch of the Chantry, but mostly as a legitimizing force for what looks very much looks like self-government. The Circle ending up looking something like the Colleges of Magic from Warhammer Fantasy is probably the best way for them to go, and that's basically what happens from what I remember from the slides
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Dec 10, 2020 23:08
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I went with Murder Pope because none of my characters believed in the Chantry so let's burn this fucker to the ground.
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Dec 10, 2020 23:13
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Yeah, MurderPope is absolutely the most fun ending and the best one for all other people the Chantry has been loving over
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Dec 10, 2020 23:15
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murderpope leliana is wonderful because she institutes progressive and humane reforms and makes them permanent with a river of blood
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Dec 10, 2020 23:27
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:The Circle ending up looking something like the Colleges of Magic from Warhammer Fantasy is probably the best way for them to go, and that's basically what happens from what I remember from the slides I want to say at the end of Trespasser things end up with two Mage Colleges; the College of Enchanters made by Fiona and the Mage Rebellion and one lead by Vivienne
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Dec 10, 2020 23:46
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Pattonesque posted:murderpope leliana is wonderful because she institutes progressive and humane reforms and makes them permanent with a river of blood Blood magic at the highest levels of the Chantry!
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Dec 10, 2020 23:57
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Rookersh posted:Wait. Yeah the society that has existed for thousands of years and has at various points conquered the majority of the known world in spite of heavily using blood magic and demon summoning. The key words in my post were "successful and stable". The point you made was that it only takes a single weak point in a Mage organization to bring down the entire thing, but the Imperium clearly debunks that idea because they indulge in the kinds of acts you claim causes immediate collapse and have existed for 2000 years. If a single weak apprentice could cause such a large issue there's no way the Imperium could exist as it has. I wasn't saying that it was magic done right so not sure why you quoted that. What I was saying is that it is clearly possible to have a functional society with the supposedly destructive and corrupting aspects of magic widely practiced. Perhaps because instead of repressing and fearing those aspects, Tevinter learned how to manage and control them in a way that doesn't threaten the overall whole. Which seems to be the main theme with the whole Mage plotline, that the fear and ignorance of magic is what actually causes 95% of the problems around it.
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Dec 11, 2020 00:03
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Nephthys posted:Yeah the society that has existed for thousands of years and has at various points conquered the majority of the known world in spite of heavily using blood magic and demon summoning. The key words in my post were "successful and stable". The point you made was that it only takes a single weak point in a Mage organization to bring down the entire thing, but the Imperium clearly debunks that idea because they indulge in the kinds of acts you claim causes immediate collapse and have existed for 2000 years. If a single weak apprentice could cause such a large issue there's no way the Imperium could exist as it has. Most people think that being humane and moral is a big part of being a "successful society," so Tevinter's out of the running.
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Dec 11, 2020 00:29
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Eimi posted:I thought we learned it was Arlathan in Tresspasser. Oh. Then I guess the maker is definitely not real
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Dec 11, 2020 00:47
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aegof posted:Most people think that being humane and moral is a big part of being a "successful society," so Tevinter's out of the running. I don't think most people think this, tbh. Tons of people think the US has been successful, or that the UK has, or that the Roman Empire was and "humane and moral" can't be used to describe any of them. Tevinter has been wildly successful and cruel.
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Dec 11, 2020 00:51
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Admiral Ray posted:I don't think most people think this, tbh. Tons of people think the US has been successful, or that the UK has, or that the Roman Empire was and "humane and moral" can't be used to describe any of them. Tevinter has been wildly successful and cruel. I also wouldn't call Tevinter a successful state. It's a twice failed Empire that's largely become post collapse Rome. Starvation is common, infrastructure is failing, crime runs rampant. It exists entirely off the back of slave/mercenary armies which are paid for off the money the Magisters make off Enchantment/old wealth. 12ish people having all a nations wealth, and only allowing it to trickle into others of their house, while in constant war with each other is not a "successful" state. Hell only a few magisters are even willing to work together against the Qunari which are slowly but surely conquering Tevinter. And like har har America is also an oligarchy, but America at least pretends and there is wealth/growth/classes still. It's not "we'd literally rather convert to the Qun then live in this failed state.".
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Dec 11, 2020 01:33
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SgtSteel91 posted:If the DA4 thing at tonight's Game Awards is just another cinematic teaser trailer, then there's no hope for it I don't think there's any hope for this
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Dec 11, 2020 01:46
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They just had "world premiere" DA4 stuff at the game awards...with no gameplay. After 6 years if you've got no gameplay to show, that's pretty dire. Goddamnit, Bioware.
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Dec 11, 2020 01:47
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no gameplay lmao this game is not real. it does not exist
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Dec 11, 2020 01:51
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I mean... Tevinter looks kinda neat? Like fantasy cyberpunk with the magical neon signs????
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Dec 11, 2020 01:52
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https://twitter.com/eplerjc/status/1337197064514498564 lol
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Dec 11, 2020 01:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7x685DxMcw This basically confirms my worst fears. Bringing back Varic, still in Frostbyte, no gameplay (but I'm assuming it's largely unchanged and that's a bad thing), the aesthetic is all wrong. Tevintir is too high fantasy for the rest of the world, the floaty stuff belongs in the Fade.
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Dec 11, 2020 01:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7x685DxMcw aesthetic seems cool but no real information!
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Dec 11, 2020 01:59
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did they even announce a name?
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Dec 11, 2020 02:05
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No wonder Dorian thinks southern Thedas is full of yokels
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Dec 11, 2020 02:07
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SgtSteel91 posted:I mean... Yeah, this could either be refreshing and fun, especially with lots of characters from Tevinter, Nevarra and Antiva being a welcome break from the Fereldan dog-lords and Orlais being Orlais... Or a super cheesy, hamfisted magic-is-technology cyberpunk edgelord romp that only nerds find sexy. There will be a romanceable bisexual disaster companion who will be an Antivan Crow who is also an apostate orphan of escaped Tevinter slaves, one of which was an elf. Surely BioWare will find a balance between extremes, being masters of grey areas after all.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:12
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SgtSteel91 posted:I mean... But it being nothing more then a cinematic trailer now is just one more sign the development is not going well.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:14
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I know I'm gonna play it whether it's good or bad so I hope it ends up being good.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:14
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based on that teaser it feels like the game is still like 2+ years out.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:15
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Ginette Reno posted:I know I'm gonna play it whether it's good or bad so I hope it ends up being good. I wish this wasn’t true, but honestly same.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:18
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Ginette Reno posted:I know I'm gonna play it whether it's good or bad so I hope it ends up being good. Same. Fuckin' Frostbite, though.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:25
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For some reason still holding on hope because some Dragon Age is better than none? Maybe? The trailer pretty much deflated me though. I didn't think you'd play as the Inquisitior but Varic being all, "No special heroes here, just you - a regular jamoke," sort of detracts from the Bioware classic you're the chosen one, etc. Makes me think its going to be like a lower case (m) - MMO.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:26
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Harlock posted:For some reason still holding on hope because some Dragon Age is better than none? Maybe? eh you're just a regular jamoke who becomes someone special in DAO
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Dec 11, 2020 02:26
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Dragon Age Inquisition was a single player mmo and I so don't want another one of those. Also just bringing back Varic is a red flag of "poo poo better put someone popular in"
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Dec 11, 2020 02:27
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Isn't Varric Viscount of Kirkwall? Maybe he's your point-man for the Inquisition's operation in Tevinter?
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Dec 11, 2020 02:29
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SgtSteel91 posted:Isn't Varric Viscount of Kirkwall? If they limit him to just that it wouldn't trigger me as much. If he's a party member or like Leliana/Cullen/Josephine...
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Dec 11, 2020 02:33
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What's wrong with Varic? He's cool
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Dec 11, 2020 02:36
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VostokProgram posted:What's wrong with Varic? He's cool I like him! A lot even! I just think he can easily be overused. Inquisition just felt wrong having Varic without his best friend Hawke.
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Dec 11, 2020 02:39
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How does one even reach peak Varric rivalry in DA2?
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Dec 11, 2020 02:47
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Cuddly Tumblemumps posted:How does one even reach peak Varric rivalry in DA2? Whoever did that needs to reveal themselves so they can be publicly shamed.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:05
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