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Ovi needs 189 more goals to become the NHL's most prolific scorer in forever. Gretzky: 1487 NHL games played/894 goals Ovehckin: 1152 NHL games played/706 goals Jaromir Jagr is now a believer that the Great 8 will overtake the Great One, conditionally, at least.  And if Ovechkin does set the mark, will you consider him the greatest goal scorer in history based on sheer numbers alone, or is there an argument still to be made for Gretzky? CocoaNuts fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Nov 24, 2020 |
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Nov 24, 2020 16:01
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He's at least got a shot at it, depending on how long seasons will be allowed to be and obviously how his health holds up. Ovi's for drat sure the best goal scorer in a long time, but I feel like comparing him to Gretzky is always going to be a little awkward because the game has changed so much between their respective times.
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Nov 24, 2020 16:12
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Pre-COVID, I thought Ovechkin had a much better shot than I did a year earlier. It took him putting up ~50 goal seasons as a 32-34 year old for me to believe he has a shot. But, how likely is it that he continues this pace? I don't have access to Play Index anymore, but I remember looking it up, and the only person older than Ovie to put up a 50-goal season was Bucyk (who did it on one of the highest scoring teams of all-time). 189 is a pretty large number to catch up to, and it would take a combination of normal seasons returning, healthy play, him to play he is older, and to keep up a steady decline. Is it doable? Well, if anyone will, it's Ovie. But, will he? Probably not. Is he the greatest goal scorer of all-time? I am unsure, but he probably has to be at this point. Although, some old-timer is going to come in and yell about Mike Bossy or Pavel Bure. We are blessed that we have got to enjoy Ovechkin's career. We were robbed of some of Crosby's best seasons because of injury. I am hoping McDavid can stay healthy.
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Nov 24, 2020 17:58
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He will come close but I don't think he'll be able to beat Gretzer on this record. Same on the record for amount of times willingly used in propaganda for his home country's right-wing head of state.
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Nov 25, 2020 04:58
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To expand this thread a little bit, I have been interested in thinking where Ovechkin and Crosby will end up with their career totals. Crosby is already 39th in points. Ovechkin is 36th. They are at the point where another 2 good, healthy seasons could see them in the top-20. It will also be interesting to see where people consider them in an all-time sense. Crosby has a really good shot at being considered the best player after the top-4 of Gretzky, Orr, Howe, and Lemieux. Ovechkin is a little harder to place. He'll probably be in the top-20, but I am unsure how much higher he can get.
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Nov 27, 2020 21:40
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If he is willing to play as long as Jagr did and just kinda be a shell of his former self for 5-7 years to scrap by, I see it as very possible. I never realized he was that close (but 200 goals isn't really that close.)
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Nov 28, 2020 01:16
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Sid the Kid (not as much of a kid anymore at age 33, not by hockey standards anyway) has 1,263 career points in 984 games, for an average of 1.28 points per game. Ovechkin, even older at 35, has 1,278 career points in 1,152 games, for an average of 1.1 points per game. Lemieux wound up with 1,723 points in 915 games, for 1.88 points per game. Gretzky finished his career with 2,857 points in 1,487 NHL games, for an average of 1.92 points per game. Yeah, different eras. But I have a hard time believing that either Crosby or Ovechkin could rack up the same points per game rate even if they played during the same decades as Gretzky and Lemieux.
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Nov 28, 2020 01:27
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what if they played on the same teams as gretzky and lemieux though? i bet they could do it.
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Nov 28, 2020 03:01
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He won't and it's unlikely he scores even the 97 needed to move him to 2nd all time. He's 35 and facing yet another shortened season. That's three more 30 goal seasons minimum, the first of which (presumably his most productive) will likely be 48 games max. He'd be one of only a small handful of guys to have 30 goals after age 35 and he'd still be 92 short of Gretzky so he'd have to do it three more times. Realistically he'd have to be a star level producer until his age 42 season and only 18 guys have even made it that far and essentially none of them provided any meaningful offence. If he'd been a few days older and hadn't lived through a lockout and soon to be three shortened seasons he might have had a shot but fate intervened. It's a nice thought but there's no way Ovie even approaches Wayne's record. ThinkTank fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Nov 28, 2020 |
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Nov 28, 2020 15:28
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I thought he would before COVID shortened last season and this one. Even if the NHL gets 60 games there's still a chance that Ovie misses some if he contracts it and goes on a COVID list or whatever He's also been extremely lucky with his health so far and it seems unlikely that will last as he gets older. Even Lidstrom started missing games as he got older and he hardly played a bruising style
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Nov 28, 2020 16:38
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I would've considered him a lock for it if not for last season and the forthcoming one being shortened by COVID. If he scores 34 next year, that still leaves him 165 goals short and 36 years old. He'd probably have to play 7 or 8 more years to surpass Gretzky, and while he certainly could, I'm not sure that he would have any desire to play into his mid-40's.
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Nov 28, 2020 18:09
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He has been bizarrely healthy throughout his career, but at his age he's likely one serious shoulder injury away from being entirely ineffective.
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Nov 28, 2020 21:54
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The NHL doesn't use WADA, you're a long vacation in Eastern Europe away from rehabbing anything.
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Dec 1, 2020 14:45
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CocoaNuts posted:And if Ovechkin does set the mark, will you consider him the greatest goal scorer in history based on sheer numbers alone, or is there an argument still to be made for Gretzky? I doubt he will reach #1 in these two categories. Current top ten in GC and GC/A: code:
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Dec 10, 2020 23:51
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Who cares about assists? What are you Adam Oates? Ovechkin score goals
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Dec 11, 2020 01:51
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Duck Rodgers posted:Who cares about assists? What are you Adam Oates? Ovechkin score goals Reminded me of... 
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Dec 11, 2020 02:28
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CocoaNuts posted:Sid the Kid (not as much of a kid anymore at age 33, not by hockey standards anyway) has 1,263 career points in 984 games, for an average of 1.28 points per game. All this makes me do is wish Lemieux had been able to play even close to as many games as Gretzky.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:36
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Duck Rodgers posted:Who cares about assists? What are you Adam Oates? Ovechkin score goals What do you mean? I find it at least noteworthy that Wayne Gretzky has 700+ more assists than anyone else.
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Dec 11, 2020 21:28
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Zogo posted:What do you mean? I find it at least noteworthy that Wayne Gretzky has 700+ more assists than anyone else. Gretzky is a nerd who wears a scarf while watching another guy shoot hole-in-ones. Ovechkin shoots hole-in-ones himself. That's what makes Ovechking the best goal scorer
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Dec 11, 2020 22:14
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Yes he will OP
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Dec 12, 2020 03:52
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I think he does itDuck Rodgers posted:Who cares about assists? What are you Adam Oates? Ovechkin score goals Whoa whoa slow down, there's no reason to accuse people of being Adam Oates irl. Lets all pump the brakes here
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Dec 13, 2020 02:20
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Moving up that ladder... https://twitter.com/PR_NHL/status/1357514854706384898
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Feb 5, 2021 05:14
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dont know
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Feb 5, 2021 10:06
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I think he catches Howe (801) but that's it
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Feb 5, 2021 13:16
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Feels more and more like it's within reach. https://twitter.com/OvechkinGoal/status/1501429635724111873
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Mar 9, 2022 12:32
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He drat near had it at the end
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Mar 9, 2022 13:05
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I hope he scores 100 more empty netters too
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Mar 10, 2022 00:42
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In the seasons that haven't been eliminated/shortened by lockout/Covid, Ovechkin has averaged 48 goals. If those seasons would have happened as intended (04/05, 12/13, 19/20, 20/21), Ovechkin would have gone into this season with 816 goals. If we assume he would have scored less in his rookie year, lets round down to 800. Add the 36 for this season, that's 836. He should have been well on his way to passing Wayne and on to 1000 goals. I figure all those ENs make up for all the games he missed through no fault of his own.
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Mar 10, 2022 03:23
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Decided to have some fun with this and made some graphs. You can see how Gretzky started to decline in his later years but Ovechkin has been incredibly consistent.  Ovechkin needs 114 more goals to tie Gretzky's record. If he remains consistent, I predict he'll get to 894 in the next 194 games. He'll get to 894 faster than Gretzky too, by 19 games.
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Aug 26, 2022 20:00
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I think Ovi is already the greatest goal scorer in the history of the game, even if he doesn't score another goal in the NHL. He hasn't had the same stacked teams and lovely goalie era that Gretzky had. Ovi has had to do it with videos and videos of people studying his game trying to shut him down, and they haven't been able to.
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Aug 26, 2022 22:02
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Ovi will be 37 by the first game of the season. He's been incredibly consistent so far but one day his decline will happen and I imagine it will be quick and significant. 114 goals is no small feat in any 4-5 year stretch, let alone aged 37+. It's basically 3 40 goal seasons (technically 38 but I'm giving some leeway for injuries and even then only a little). Anything after that is almost assuredly going to be garbage time seasons where his output will be sub 20 goals. The only guys to have scored 40 goals aged 37+ is Johnny Bucyk who did it in his age 37 season and Gordie Howe aged 40. Bucyk scored 161 goals over his final 5 years of his career retiring at 42 and is the highest scoring late career NHLer. Howe, Ratelle and Selanne stuck around for a long while and bettered 114 goals after age 37 but it took them 5+ years to do so. I am coming around on the idea of Ovechkin getting there if he stick around for another 5-7 years but it's still exceedingly unlikely to be a quick accomplishment over the next few years and I'd say nigh on impossible for him to reach 894 faster than Gretzky did. Realistically, if he betters Wayne it'll be aged 41-42 when he's putting up 7-12 goals a year. If he does it it'll be entirely because he and the Capitals agreed to let him stick around just to do it. It's not going to be an accomplishment of a top of their game star but a shadow of his former self Ovi slogging to the finish line. ThinkTank fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Aug 27, 2022 |
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Aug 27, 2022 19:44
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That's fun.
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Aug 28, 2022 05:24
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2 years ago in this thread, I said he probably won't pass Gretzky. However, he has followed it up with two great goal-scoring seasons, even becoming the oldest player to hit 50. This season will be telling. If he hits 40-50 again (which, as ThinkTank pointed out, is a feat for someone his age), he will then be ~60-70 away, which feels so close in reach. At this point, I have learned to not bet against Ovechkin.
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Aug 28, 2022 15:47
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I think Washington is already fully invested in getting him the record so they’ll play him 20 minutes a game and the full 2 minutes of power plays as long as he is physically able to, even if it starts hurting the team. He already plays a defense-optional game and he’s already toned down the hitting, so I imagine he’ll play out his current contract (4 more years) and then do 1 year deals until he gets the record. Of course he might get injured but he’ll do his best to reduce his exposure. The team is going to be poo poo in a few years anyways so they’ll need a way to get asses in the seats. Ovechkin chasing the record will be that ticket.
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Aug 28, 2022 15:56
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Lot of talk about Ovi beating his goals record but silence on Crosby & Malkins combined point totals passing Gretzkys this upcoming season?
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Aug 28, 2022 16:17
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meanwhile Austin Matthews beat a Gretzky's point record in his first game 
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Aug 28, 2022 16:46
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Ovie just hit the 800 mark tonight. One goal away from tying Gordie Howe's career mark. 94 away from reaching Gretzky.
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Dec 14, 2022 05:08
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Now include Gordie's WHA stats
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Dec 14, 2022 07:12
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AsInHowe posted:Now include Gordie's WHA stats 975 goals would be in reach for Ovechkin if he plays until his 50's, yes.
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Dec 15, 2022 01:07
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ThinkTank posted:He won't and it's unlikely he scores even the 97 needed to move him to 2nd all time As always I am absolutely spot on every single time.
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Dec 15, 2022 01:40
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