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CapitalistPig posted:apostateCourier - Top Bumpers - Scum aligne busdriver was executed on day 5 Ok, listen to me  for a second to make sure that I am happy.A 3-man scum team (all flipped) + a 2 man scum team (Amni + Yami) that is more powerful makes a little bit of sense in a 15 player game. But that doesn't track with the scum flips, which have just been scum. Not a faction that happens to be scum. So that makes it nearly impossible. Add that in to the behavior of Amni outting Yami when there was no impetus to do so. Even if they thought it was 2, 2-man scum teams. Hoping that Amni would make it to end game there on the cred seems unlikely. Especially with kill flavor.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:31
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That is to say, it is Sandwolf who I think is scum.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:31
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Grandicap posted:Ok, listen to me Ok, yeah, this isn't a reasonable possibility. Thankyou for letting me lay it out.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:32
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I went full on tinfoil hat and tried to map out every possible outcome for last night... And basically determined if I make the wrong choice then town loses. It was a stressful night.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:33
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Yami Fenrir posted:Also should we get down to 3-4 players I request some time to talk about things before you just murk me off or something. N1 Watch Yami -> Grandicap visited my target N2 Watch Sandwolf -> My action failed N3 Watch Yami -> Grandicap visited my target N4 Watch Amni -> Grandicap visited my target N5 Watch Amni -> Grandicap visited my target
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Dec 21, 2020 20:34
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Uhhh whyarent we lunching Yami?
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Dec 21, 2020 20:35
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Grandicap posted:N1 Watch Yami -> Grandicap visited my target Oh now that is interesting. Cuz N3 my shot on DGK failed with the scum jailor dead.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:36
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Sandwolf posted:Uhhh whyarent we lunching Yami? Because I would rather yami win than scum.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:36
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Sandwolf posted:Uhhh whyarent we lunching Yami? I win when Amni wins. I'm fairly sure that was stated already.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:37
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Sandwolf posted:Uhhh whyarent we lunching Yami? Yami could have and orthogonal win condition to town. Scum definitely do not. Speaking of which, Yami, what is your win con. Both halves please.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:37
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The real question is why didn't scum kill me last night?
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Dec 21, 2020 20:37
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Amnistar posted:The real question is why didn't scum kill me last night? If it is rhymes, and he can't kill and redirect in the same night, he saved his own rear end?
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Dec 21, 2020 20:38
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Grandicap posted:Yami could have and orthogonal win condition to town. Scum definitely do not. Like I said, I specifically win when Amni wins. This is regardless of Amni being town or scum or 3p himself. When he dies, I get the standard SK wincon of killing everyone.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:39
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Grandicap posted:If it is rhymes, and he can't kill and redirect in the same night, he saved his own rear end? Yep. Thats the only one that makes sense to me.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:39
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Grandicap posted:If it is rhymes, and he can't kill and redirect in the same night, he saved his own rear end? And Yami is BP when killing for you Amni, right? So that is what happened, Yami was redirected from Rhymes back into Yami who was BP so no kill.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:40
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I am not scum, unless the mod lied to me! I think if someone tries to kill me, and I redirect back to that same party, it doesn't work.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:40
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BUT if Rhymes is the standard redirector, then he is vanilla town, right? Or just a scum goon? Does that make Sandwolf Scum 4? Hmmmmmmmmm.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:41
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Now I'm going all paranoid. Would a scumwolf make a mayo bet like that? That was totally a town thought process.... Yeah, Sandwolf is still town. Not going down that path.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:42
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Grandicap posted:And Yami is BP when killing for you Amni, right? So that is what happened, Yami was redirected from Rhymes back into Yami who was BP so no kill. If that is the case the kill would still resolve on me, also known as "action successful." My action specifically failed this night. Which means it was prevented from resolving. Pretty basic result language stuff.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:42
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But hitting someone with a kill that has BP is usually a succesful action.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:42
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Yami Fenrir posted:If that is the case the kill would still resolve on me, also known as "action successful." Is the kill successful if no one dies? That seems like a dicey language assumption.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:43
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Generally speaking...the action is succesful.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:44
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I asked CPig in my confessional, I do not really expect an answer. But I don't feel like that is cut and dry.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:44
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Grandicap posted:Is the kill successful if no one dies? That seems like a dicey language assumption. At least it works that way in every other game I played so far. It's even in nat 20's standard OP.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:45
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Look at the OP of one of my games for an example.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:46
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I am not arguing that I've seen it that way before, I'm arguing that it is a dicey language assumption.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:47
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Grandicap posted:I am not arguing that I've seen it that way before, I'm arguing that it is a dicey language assumption. I suppose, but that'd only explain last night, not the second DGK shot.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:49
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Yami Fenrir posted:I suppose, but that'd only explain last night, not the second DGK shot. True.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:49
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And my N2 Sandwolf fail.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:50
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Nevermind, N2 SNG was still alive.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:50
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Grandicap posted:Nevermind, N2 SNG was still alive. Yes, but my N2 actuon failed as well.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:51
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Amnistar posted:Yes, but my N2 actuon failed as well. loving hell.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:52
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And your action fails when you can't target Yami I guess. Or if you are blocked.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:52
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Would scum be given two blocking type roles, in a pinball role madness game, maybe.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:53
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Especially since Jailer is a bit crippled because if you want to kill someone by turning off their redirect, jail can't do that because you can't kill them if they are jailed. So a traditional roleblock makes more sense to help scum in this game.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:54
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I want to vote no-execute today. I have a plan.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:54
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Grandicap posted:N1 Watch Yami -> Grandicap visited my target Wait, I watched Yami N1 and N3, Amni was not a visitor either night.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:55
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loving hell I just realized that. That's 2 different players targeting 2 different people, so jailor alone really does not explain it.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:56
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Grandicap posted:Wait, I watched Yami N1 and N3, Amni was not a visitor either night. It probably just doesn't count as a visit, we discussed shooting Q_Res and I then in fact shot q_res, but it got redirected to steak.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:57
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Yami Fenrir posted:loving hell I just realized that. If you wanna fly down to the super unlikely, one of us could have gotten busdriven into the other's target or something. But that seems unlikely.
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Dec 21, 2020 20:58
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