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FlamingLiberal posted:I hope there is actual payoff to the distress call to mom, but I have no idea how they would get to Federation HQ that fast. Then again, time tends to have little meaning on this show. There's a way to tie the A and B stories together and have the technomagic that solves the burn on Planet Dilithium send a signal to everyone in the galaxy that warp drive is officially back. Unfortunately it's way more likely that they'll take the same path they did in Scavengers where Book's ship could magically warp across the galaxy when the plot demands it. Acer Pilot posted:Re: the mayday Having ships from Ni'Var, Trill, and Earth all jump to Starfleet Command at the last second to beat off the Emerald Chain as a unified fleet with the Federation would be a great ending to the season and open up a storyline of rebuilding the Federation for next season, but I have low confidence in the writers.
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Jan 2, 2021 02:23
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Soonmot posted:man, i stopped reading this thread because I genuinely enjoy this show for the most part, but wow did this episode suck. its funny, ive been a pretty big detractor of the show overall but i actually liked this ep. michael mostly getting nothing done while getting stabbed was part of it, but i also really liked the reveal that osyraa is a better person and leader than space hitler, that she actually wanted to diplomatically merge the federation and the chain, and i really liked the characterization done on vance. the escape, the regulators, the general incompetence of every single person in the show that isnt culber or vance is to be expected. i also thought the first 10-15 minutes, if a bit silly, were a good use of their effects budget as opposed to a terrible one like a lot of the show but really. georgiou is, at best right now, the same person that osyraa is. they just spent two episodes showing that shes a new and improved sassy hitler who can also see that her empire was falling apart and how to fix it. its fitting but knowing the writing staff theres no way it was intentional
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Jan 2, 2021 02:41
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So I watched half of season 1 and none of season 2 and decided to give this show one last try. Is there a reason the discovery needed to travel 900 years into the future to stop people from getting access to some amorphous knowledge instead of just blowing up the ship or chucking it into a black hole?
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Jan 2, 2021 02:46
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The amorphous knowledge controls the ship and wouldn't allow itself to be destroyed, but was okay with time travel.
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Jan 2, 2021 02:53
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Grand Fromage posted:The amorphous knowledge controls the ship and wouldn't allow itself to be destroyed, but was okay with time travel. Which as outlandish as it sounds is actually extremely plausible by trek standards I must say
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Jan 2, 2021 02:56
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Grand Fromage posted:The amorphous knowledge controls the ship and wouldn't allow itself to be destroyed, but was okay with time travel. The problem is the specific reason they needed to throw Discovery into the future stopped existing about five minutes before they jumped into the future and they only went because the plot said to set up season 3 this way.
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Jan 2, 2021 02:58
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Yeah especially with Michael's emergency distress call to Ni'Var, there's a setup here for Saru and friends to solve the burn in a big, flashy, galaxy notifying way, and for Ni'Var, Trill, and Earth ships to warp in at the last second to save The Trill ships better have spots.
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Jan 2, 2021 03:08
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For my problems with it, this episode was at least an improvement. The Dadmiral/Osyraa stuff was interesting enough. However, everything on the ship was kind of weird.
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Jan 2, 2021 03:15
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I thought this was the second best episode of the season so far, right after last week's (and tied with the seed ship episode). Also a top episode of the series for me so far. I really liked it. I'm always flabbergasted when some of the plot holes I think are minor quibbles at worst are such deal breakers for the rest of the thread. 
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Jan 2, 2021 03:53
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I literally just stared at the screen dumbfounded when they introduced the sphere data wall-e bots at the end. This was such a maddening mix of “better than the average Disco episode” and “what the actual lol is this”.
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Jan 2, 2021 04:00
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Grand Fromage posted:The amorphous knowledge controls the ship and wouldn't allow itself to be destroyed, but was okay with time travel. That thing was inside of the dumb anime space suit then I assume? Why didn’t they just let it go into the future by itself? Is there any reason at all whatsoever that they had to go there with it?
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Jan 2, 2021 04:06
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Martytoof posted:I literally just stared at the screen dumbfounded when they introduced the sphere data wall-e bots at the end. I have to wonder how they came to the conclusion that there should be three of them. "It would be unrealistic if the entire sphere data could be contained in one Dot-23 Wall-E, they're just maintenance bots after all" "Yeah that makes sense, how many should it be then? A small army?" "Nah, I think three'll do" "Alright then, but make them have one each of the command/science/engineering colors so we can tell them apart" "You got it"
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Jan 2, 2021 04:07
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pik_d posted:I have to wonder how they came to the conclusion that there should be three of them. I mean it's not like they could do anything interesting with a sympathetic AI subsumed with the ship's systems. They're already ripping off Andromeda, did they not watch the bits with Rommie just incapacitating intruders using the gravity plating?
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Jan 2, 2021 05:11
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Those things look nothing like WallE and everything like Eve What the hell people
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Jan 2, 2021 05:18
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Thankfully this sentient collection of data living in Discovery's computer avoided encountering AI.
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Jan 2, 2021 06:18
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Discovery’s AI becomes Captain and then becomes Starfleet. Buster Keaton hologram XO’s for everybody.
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Jan 2, 2021 06:27
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Have to say that I appreciate more and more Admiral Vance's line "It's made from our poo poo" Not a euphemism like recycled waste or anything. Just, poo poo. To really drive home his point about ethical consumption after Osyrra was waxing on about how beautiful real apples are. Like people have been posting for weeks now, we really should have gotten into the ethical quandaries of The Federation and Emerald Chain. Where Osyrra has fresh apples thanks to slavery and The Free Market, The Federation eats poo poo and will die to keep the poo poo eating dream alive. The federations failings being more about triage that theyve been in for over a century after a galaxy wide disaster and choices where there really is no correct or right answer that solves everything*. With the Emerald Chain there to exploit the vulnerable and call it progress. *Until Micheal shows up. fake edit: Michael needed to leave the Discovery and do a whole lot of "The Burn" and Georgiou stuff on her own while Discovery reconnected with lost worlds of the federation. real edit; I'm sure it's been pointed out before but in case it wasn't, point meet nose.  
MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 07:16
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It's a bit of a missed opportunity in my mind they haven't really leaned into the ship and her crew being out of place and out of time more this season. I mean, the Discovery being captured is a perfect example where they could have used it. You could play up the fact that the invading forces are completely lost having to do things with physical circuit boards and hardware interfaces, being used to their magical automated magical transforming bullshit, which would give the crew an upper hand during their guerrilla take back of their own ship, even if they're clearly outmatched in technical capabilities. The tech stuff doesn't need to be the focus of anything of course, but it would work in one of the oft repeated technobabble excuses of why something is the case that Star Trek is known for. I know they retrofitted the Discovery in like 3 in universe minutes or so, but surely it'd still be patchrd on top of ancient tech. It's like a WW1 cruiser and her crew finding themselves in the modern Navy.
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Jan 2, 2021 07:29
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Isometric Bacon posted:It's a bit of a missed opportunity in my mind they haven't really leaned into the ship and her crew being out of place and out of time more this season. One of the bigger problems I've had with this season is that the 32nd Century is not that much different than the 23rd/24th despite it being 800+ years later. Like OK, you have the programmable matter and the instant self-transporters but that's not a big upgrade over the old tech. Then you have the modular starships which I don't understand the purpose of. Like OK, Disco's nacelles are now not physically attached to the rest of the ship, but what does that actually do?
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Jan 2, 2021 07:41
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yeah they completely skipped most of the crew retraining stuff. There were a couple of scenes of it when they got to Federation HQ but it lasts like a minute.
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Jan 2, 2021 07:49
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Mr. Apollo posted:Oh what about the Starfleet ships with organic hulls that were mentioned when they first arrived at Federation HQ?
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Jan 2, 2021 07:56
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Was it the Nog that took up position, ready to blast Discovery out of the space-sky? Also... I'll have to re-watch, but it seemed to me like the three faux-bots that Spherie possessed were color-coded to the three main shirts in Starfleet: red, gold, and blue. Was I imagining that? Maybe there is some significance there. Overall... it was an OK episode. Seeing Michael get out-badassed on her first encounter... I'm ashamed to admit, I really liked that bit. If she'd been captured immediately, it would have been better, because it would have subverted my cynical assumption that she was going to wesleycrusher the situation again, and it would give the other characters a chance to shine and maybe grow, and it would have given the writers a reason to actually develop Michael's character to have some humility.
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Jan 2, 2021 08:10
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calling it now: michael's mom is gonna kramer in and deus ex machina fix everything because she got the message and her daughter is yet again a hopeless cause.
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Jan 2, 2021 08:13
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Super weird Michael cry to not cry back to cry to serious face, also RIP to that cool fan that was in the show. It's poo poo
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Jan 2, 2021 09:49
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tarlibone posted:Was it the Nog that took up position, ready to blast Discovery out of the space-sky?  Looks like the Song or something? The Nog is there too, in the very center in the background.
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Jan 2, 2021 10:08
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tarlibone posted:Was it the Nog that took up position, ready to blast Discovery out of the space-sky? It looked like the name on the bow said something like "Song" to me. "Soong" maybe? Also the reason they're colour-coded is because they're probably gonna break out CGI cartoon antics with them messing with Regulators and needed colour-coding to differentiate the three as individual characters so they just Huey/Dewey/Louie'd them. tarlibone posted:Overall... it was an OK episode. Seeing Michael get out-badassed on her first encounter... I'm ashamed to admit, I really liked that bit. If she'd been captured immediately, it would have been better, because it would have subverted my cynical assumption that she was going to wesleycrusher the situation again, and it would give the other characters a chance to shine and maybe grow, and it would have given the writers a reason to actually develop Michael's character to have some humility. Nah, that was the time in literally any other Star Trek show they'd break out the Vulcan Nerve Pinch and be on their way. She only tries the grapple and gets stabbed because they wanted Big Dramatic Tension because she's wounded and struggling to survive and    . It's completely pointless when getting stabbed in the leg ultimately amounts to nothing; She's not on a ticking clock as she bleeds out, she's not too wounded to fight. She just sorta has a dramatic TV limp for effect as she dashes about at full speed because they want her injured, but not too injured that she can't be central to the plot as required.
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Jan 2, 2021 10:13
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Having ships from Ni'Var, Trill, and Earth all jump to Starfleet Command at the last second to beat off the Emerald Chain as a unified fleet with the Federation would be a great ending to the season and open up a storyline of rebuilding the Federation for next season, but I have low confidence in the writers. The entire theme of this season has been that that's impossible because of the burn. If a fleet from ex-federation worlds shows up to save Starfleet then what the gently caress was the story supposed to be about? e: and this really takes me back to the problem of the writers self-sabotaging. Look at the premise of this season for example. The world has depleted its supply of That's a great premise for a sci-fi show which would have real things to say about the world we live in right now. Instead it's been completely wasted on a mystery quest that doesn't mean anything, establishing that the faction that's going to offer peace at the end is extremely evil, and a MU two parter. Discovery would be great if it just followed through on the things it promises in the pilot, but it never does. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 11:08
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Nah, that was the time in literally any other Star Trek show they'd break out the Vulcan Nerve Pinch and be on their way. She only tries the grapple and gets stabbed because they wanted Big Dramatic Tension because she's wounded and struggling to survive and I figured there would be a scene where she sneaks into sickbay and gets some thing to fix her leg, or she has some kind of first ait kit in her action jacket. Like literally a 2 second shot of that would fix it. Also I think some armed forces have boots with built in socks or some other lining. Like a Tom Clancy novel had someone say to take some Russian guards boots and it mentions how the boots don't need socks. Though honestly, socks are awesome. I get the feeling the writers are so focused on creating big huge epic stories they forget little stuff. The best scene was the Bridge Crews breakout though. "I told him to keep tapping".
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Jan 2, 2021 11:20
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Stamets is really going all-in on this "I'm your dad now" thing with Adira. They just met, what, a few weeks ago? And they're both adults? Even if he is older, Adira's not a child. Blu del Barrio is 23, so presumably Adira is also about that age.FlamingLiberal posted:The more I think about what Osyraa was doing, the less I understand what her plan was. And the deal she offered was absurdly good. Vance holding out for a deal in which she, personally, is held accountable is dumb. If that's the one sticking point - and it seems that it is - then he should just take the deal. It's not perfect, but it drastically improves life for... millions? Billions? A lot of people. And it puts the Federation back in a position where they can actively do good again instead of just barely holding out as they currently are.
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Jan 2, 2021 12:10
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Tiggum posted:Stamets is really going all-in on this "I'm your dad now" thing with Adira. They just met, what, a few weeks ago? And they're both adults? Even if he is older, Adira's not a child. Blu del Barrio is 23, so presumably Adira is also about that age. Adira is 16.
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Jan 2, 2021 12:12
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Neddy Seagoon posted:It's completely pointless when getting stabbed in the leg ultimately amounts to nothing; She's not on a ticking clock as she bleeds out, she's not too wounded to fight. She just sorta has a dramatic TV limp for effect as she dashes about at full speed because they want her injured, but not too injured that she can't be central to the plot as required. It also follows an earlier scene where her face is literally peeling off due to radiation poisoning, and she uses a spray which immediately fixes it. She should just carry one of those around.
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Jan 2, 2021 12:13
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MikeJF posted:Adira is 16. I guess I missed that. It doesn't change things too much though, because Stamets is still being really intense about it and it's weird.
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Jan 2, 2021 12:15
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Tiggum posted:And the deal she offered was absurdly good. Vance holding out for a deal in which she, personally, is held accountable is dumb. If that's the one sticking point - and it seems that it is - then he should just take the deal. It's not perfect, but it drastically improves life for... millions? Billions? A lot of people. And it puts the Federation back in a position where they can actively do good again instead of just barely holding out as they currently are. I quite liked that little exchange. It was a pretty good way for the Admiral to tease out whether her actions could truly be as sincere as she says - even if she believes in her own mind that she could do it as per the lie detector man, she ultimately has her own self interest at heart and I seriously doubt this slaver society is going to truly throw away it's profitability and adopt the morals of the Federation. Perhaps she knows with the spore drives existence, her monopoly is threatened, and better to join them than be beaten. (Or be crushed by a house and leave nothing but her stripy socks and red shoes).
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Jan 2, 2021 12:23
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Tiggum posted:I think just to make it clear that she was genuine and worth hearing out. If she shows up in her own ship then she's got no way of knowing for sure if they'll even talk to her, let alone take her seriously or believe her. So she steals their game-changing new technology and delivers it back to them to prove that she could have just taken and kept it. That instantly gets her a one-on-one meeting with the head of Starfleet. Yeah Vance deliberately tanks the deal. That negotiation should have been a whole episode. Stretch it out, establish both sides are bluffing in some way, make it more ambiguous as to whether Oryssa is trustworthy, have the characters engage in a real moral dilemma over 'what price peace?' Instead Vance rejects the deal and then Osyraa goes back to the ship and murders someone pointlessly to remind us that she's actually bad. e: like she seems to be presenting a fairly generous deal that's 'you accept capitalism, we agree to roll back the stuff we're doing you don't like, and we let bygones be bygones'. Vance instead basically demands total surrender. I think it's a really good scene but it moves too quickly and the episode doesn't dwell on why Oryssa or Vance are making the choices they are making beyond the face-value of what they say in the room. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 12:25
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Osyraa put a bunch of thought into the proposal because the hints all show that her empire is on the razor's edge and is about to crumble and take her with if she doesn't do something. She is doing two somethings simultaneously, the proposal and ganking the spore drive. You can infer she was already working on the proposal before Discovery showed up, this just gave her an extra option. But she managed to screw them both up. A lot of this is just hinted toward in the dialogue, more than likely due to the show planting seeds but not having a good episode that explicitly says what is happening due to wasting 1/4th of the already too short season on goodbye episodes. They only had one real Osyraa episode before all this and that had her at a position of strength that they knocked down a peg. All in all not too good of a setup, but not the worst thing they did this season. Also according to the wiki, the random new bridge crew lady is Lt. Ina, played by Avaah Blackwell who usually plays the fly guys. I thought it was awesome they specifically wrote a role for Kenneth Mitchell, I had no idea he had ALS now
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Jan 2, 2021 12:45
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How did frozen hand evil courier guy get to this side of the universe? I thought they needed the spore drive to do that? Is those trans warp things did it, why not use that instead of Dilithium?
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Jan 2, 2021 13:55
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Sexual Aluminum posted:How did frozen hand evil courier guy get to this side of the universe? I thought they needed the spore drive to do that? Only heroes and villains can survive the courier tunnels. That guy's just a henchman
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Jan 2, 2021 13:56
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Tiggum posted:I guess I missed that. It doesn't change things too much though, because Stamets is still being really intense about it and it's weird. I read it as Stamets being afraid he'll be tortured or killed, so immediately trying to build a rapport with his captor. It's quite clever actually, he asks him about his life, finds common ground, basically works from moment one to establish his own humanity in relationship to the doctor. EDIT: As for Vance tanking the deal - no peace without justice.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:18
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Having ships from Ni'Var, Trill, and Earth all jump to Starfleet Command at the last second to beat off the Emerald Chain as a unified fleet with the Federation would be a great ending to the season and open up a storyline of rebuilding the Federation for next season, but I have low confidence in the writers. And conveniently they will also use the same ship class duplicated on screen 200x.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:25
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I read it as Stamets being afraid he'll be tortured or killed, so immediately trying to build a rapport with his captor. It's quite clever actually, he asks him about his life, finds common ground, basically works from moment one to establish his own humanity in relationship to the doctor. I'm talking about him acting like he and Culber are Adira's fathers in general, not specifically the thing where he told the scientist he had a child.
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Jan 2, 2021 14:31
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