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KVeezy3 posted:This reminds me of the Kevin Feige interview where he pushed back against Scorsese's "The MCU isn't cinema" controversy by asserting that there are different kinds of creative risks - such as the one they took with their most valuable intellectual property by placing them in conflict with one another (Potentially reducing their likeability ratings which affect long-term profit margins). https://twitter.com/QueenCeleste8/status/1334251643844456449?s=20
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Jan 4, 2021 22:43
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KVeezy3 posted:This reminds me of the Kevin Feige interview where he pushed back against Scorsese's "The MCU isn't cinema" controversy by asserting that there are different kinds of creative risks - such as the one they took with their most valuable intellectual property by placing them in conflict with one another (Potentially reducing their likeability ratings which affect long-term profit margins). Conflicts? You mean the basis for stories and plot and like...everything?
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Jan 4, 2021 23:01
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lol. Although I'm having trouble finding it again, the most egregious citing of inspirations I've seen were from the filmmakers of Black Panther. Gatts posted:Conflicts? You mean the basis for stories and plot and like...everything? To be fair, Avengers 1 already knew that people loved to see our heroes in conflict with each other, and the filmmakers were happy to depict that. But I think the pretense of this particular response was that conflict with consequences was risky in the long-term financially. Otherwise I can't make any sense of it at all. Here's the quote: quote:Scorsese reignited it with an op-ed in the New York Times, in which he expanded his explanation, emphasizing what he considers to be one of the films’ fatal flaws: “Many of the elements that define cinema as I know it are there in Marvel pictures,” he wrote. “What’s not there is revelation, mystery, or genuine emotional danger. Nothing is at risk.”
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Jan 4, 2021 23:18
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Before I forget, you didn't say which cut you prefer.
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Jan 4, 2021 23:20
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I can't say I remember Captain America and Iron Man having what I would describe as a "theological altercation"
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Jan 4, 2021 23:28
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Captain America is tradcath while Iron Man is a Christian scientist
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Jan 4, 2021 23:34
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RBX posted:Using loving rotten tomatoes as "evidence" of anything is laughable. If people like Man of Steel and BVS so much then we'd still be getting more of those wouldnt we? But we're not. It's dead. They failed no matter how much you try to fight it. Are you one of those "the snydercut doesnt and never existed" people?
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Jan 4, 2021 23:41
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What I think people missed in that Scorsese thing is that he watches a shitload of movies. Rom-coms, thrillers, indie poo poo, kung fu flicks, Martin Scorsese loves movies and gives pretty much all of them a fair chance. If you've seen him in interviews you know that he will suddenly cite some scene in an obscure 50+ year old movie as an example on the reg. So when he says "this poo poo is superficial" it carries a little more weight with a lot of people than Twitter user MarvelStan1996.
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Jan 4, 2021 23:50
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golden bubble posted:It's becoming increasingly clear that "Snyder's films are not faithful to the comics" actually means "Snyder's films are not faithful to the DC Animated Universe" and mostly the early part of it at that with Batman: The Animated Series and Superman:The Animated Series. Because the criticism you hear online against Synder's DC superhero movies does not make any sense unless you considered these two animated kids shows to be the correct interpretations of Batman and Superman. Cause this criticism does not make sense if you focus more on the Batman and Superman comics. Even Batman TAS did an adaptation of Dark Knight Returns!
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Jan 4, 2021 23:52
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Darko posted:Even Batman TAS did an adaptation of Dark Knight Returns! And look where it is now, dead in a cul de sac.
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Jan 4, 2021 23:56
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AdmiralViscen posted:This post is incomprehensible. In your first paragraph you (falsely) claim that Marvel is more faithful, despite many examples to the contrary. But then in the second paragraph you say you don’t care how faithful Green Lantern was. Then you say Batfleck was a faithful adaptation of DKR batman, but you hate that comic so it’s not good for it to be faithful. But you also want a Batman who is brutal and has issues? Green lantern was just bad, faithful or not. The point I was making that the MCU has overall good movies first. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I'm reading RBX's posts right now and basically he's a dude who wants funman punchems no-frills power fantasies. Nothing wrong with that but you ain't gonna get it from Snyder, friend. Not always but sometimes yes. I'm tired of everything always having to be overly sad. Yes Spawn should be not fun but Flash should. And stuff like Forever is ok from time to time. A director's cut means what? He's not doing anything after this so what's your point? golden bubble posted:It's becoming increasingly clear that "Snyder's films are not faithful to the comics" actually means "Snyder's films are not faithful to the DC Animated Universe" and mostly the early part of it at that with Batman: The Animated Series and Superman:The Animated Series. Because the criticism you hear online against Synder's DC superhero movies does not make any sense unless you considered these two animated kids shows to be the correct interpretations of Batman and Superman. Cause this criticism does not make sense if you focus more on the Batman and Superman comics. Those are prolly the most recognizeable incarnations. Guy A. Person posted:For the record there's obviously a tone and style to the MCU which has been super successful and popular, I just reject the idea that it is "more faithful to the comics" or whatever, despite that being the meme. Yes the first paragraph is what I was getting at. Rest is weird because not everybody wants to be fake intellectual about everything they consume. You also make people that enjoy that stuff sound less than.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:04
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Snyder posted this photo. It was from when he was working on WW after Gadot was cast but before Jenkins was hired. It's a test shot of Diana and her group back when they were thinking of setting it during the Crimean War. Yes, those are severed heads Diana is holding.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:11
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golden bubble posted:It's becoming increasingly clear that "Snyder's films are not faithful to the comics" actually means "Snyder's films are not faithful to the DC Animated Universe" and mostly the early part of it at that with Batman: The Animated Series and Superman:The Animated Series.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:13
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RBX posted:Rest is weird because not everybody wants to be fake intellectual about everything they consume. You also make people that enjoy that stuff sound less than. The obverse of 'fake intellectualism' is denoting that superhero fiction isn't worth examining at all. Mr. Apollo posted:Snyder posted this photo. It was from when he was working on WW after Gadot was cast but before Jenkins was hired. It's a test shot of Diana and her group back when they were thinking of setting it during the Crimean War. Yes, those are severed heads Diana is holding. That's my Wonder Woman. KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 01:13
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Backing out of heavy metal Wonder Woman is cowardly. Crimean war would’ve been sick.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:13
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RBX posted:Not always but sometimes yes. I'm tired of everything always having to be overly sad. Yes Spawn should be not fun but Flash should. And stuff like Forever is ok from time to time. An extremely sad, and grimdark scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JsJUWrCa2s
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Jan 5, 2021 01:15
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RBX posted:Yes the first paragraph is what I was getting at. I enjoy all the stuff I said which is why I included myself in the footnote. I just think "more faithful to the comics" is a meme, and it's more about enjoyable escapism. Which like I'm saying, is great and I love, but I also like variety. I get the escapism from MCU and the variety of the DC stuff and my life is pretty great,
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Jan 5, 2021 01:15
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well why not posted:Backing out of heavy metal Wonder Woman is cowardly. Crimean war would’ve been sick. Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 01:16
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Can we just give Zack Snyder all of DC's properties? That image right there generates more excitement in me than the entire docket of Disney/Marvel films to come and is infinitely more interesting than the direction the suits want to take these franchises. Should just let the man work instead of listening to whiny purists mad that the character isn't exactly the same as the one in their head.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:28
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RBX posted:Not always but sometimes yes. I'm tired of everything always having to be overly sad. Limiting myself to just the major franchises, by my count there are five "overly sad" comic book films, Watchmen, MoS, BvS, SS, and Joker. In comparison, there's 21 MCU films, five Sony Spider-man films, two Deadpools, however many X-men, and the DCU's Aquaman, Shazam, and now WW84. Maybe the first Wonder Woman and Birds of Prey should count as well. I think there's still some debate if they're overly sad or merely moderately maudlin. Either way, "everything always" means like 16% of all franchised super hero films. I don't think the films you like are under any threat.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:30
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RBX posted:Green lantern was just bad, faithful or not. The point I was making that the MCU has overall good movies first. Man of Steel is better than any Marvel Studios movie. It also happens to be at least as entertaining and action-packed as any of them. Something tells me any reasons you give me why it isn’t are going to be bound up in the “not my Superman” poo poo, it’s circular reasoning that gives nothing to a discussion. Not even sure why you’re in this thread tbh RBX posted:
Were you having fun when Spider-Man almost blew up a school bus full of teenagers using tech that was identical to that used by the Nazis in Winter Soldier? How about when he was recruited as a child soldier by the selfish millionaire libertarian? How about when that same libertarian ranted about how he wanted to build a wall to keep out the dangerous foreigners and then was treated like Jesus at the end of the movie? Oh wait that Jesus guy also made the Nazi school shooter drones lol AdmiralViscen fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 01:30
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Mr. Apollo posted:Snyder posted this photo. It was from when he was working on WW after Gadot was cast but before Jenkins was hired. It's a test shot of Diana and her group back when they were thinking of setting it during the Crimean War. Yes, those are severed heads Diana is holding.  Knowing how unfortunately compromised even the Wonder Woman we got was, this version had no chance. Still, that paints a hell of a picture.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:33
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Jimbot posted:Can we just give Zack Snyder all of DC's properties? That image right there generates more excitement in me than the entire docket of Disney/Marvel films to come and is infinitely more interesting than the direction the suits want to take these franchises. Should just let the man work instead of listening to whiny purists mad that the character isn't exactly the same as the one in their head. He even considered placing her 'discovery' during the U.S. Civil War. Imagine Wonder Woman posing with the heads of American slave-owners.  https://twitter.com/smcolbert/status/1244308838582550530
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Jan 5, 2021 01:33
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RBX posted:A director's cut means what? He's not doing anything after this so what's your point? What do you think "Zack Snyder's Justice League" is? I'd like to hear you describe it, either in relation to "Man of Steel" (2013) and "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice" (2016), or in relation to "Justice League" (2017).
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Jan 5, 2021 01:35
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Ghosthotel posted:An extremely sad, and grimdark scene: I rewatched a bit of MoS yesterday, and it struck me how Marvel would have put iterations of this scene in every Superman sequel. Like, remember Iron Man building his suit in that cave to buttrock, and how every Iron Man sequel got a similar sequence akin to loving MacGuyver or the A-Team building a stapler tank every episode? gently caress you, get Superman flying HARD and having FUN around the world every single loving movie, because that is what makes people HAPPY.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:42
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Hallelujah indeed
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Jan 5, 2021 01:55
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RBX posted:The point I was making that the MCU has overall good movies first. Imagine if I said "the point I was making is that McDonald's has overall good food first" and you're getting close to my reaction on reading this. I like McDonald's and Marvel, btw. But come on. McDonalds is fatty salty junk that's enormously popular and successful because it's easy to love! That's what Marvel is, my guy! Light-hearted quips and gee-wiz animated action as all-ages entertainment is something Chuck Jones figured out over 50 years ago.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:59
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Schwarzwald posted:
He said the studio was already nervous about having a violent female superhero and they kept asking stuff like “does she have to kill people?” and “I thought she was supposed to be nice and just use her lasso?” He said once Jenkins was hired he realized that her pitch was much closer to what the studio wanted so he told her to go ahead and make her movie the way she wanted and she had his full support.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:59
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RBX posted:Not always but sometimes yes. I'm tired of everything always having to be overly sad. Yes Spawn should be not fun but Flash should. And stuff like Forever is ok from time to time. Why should Flash be fun? Isn't his whole deal based around stopping his mom from being murdered? Also why shouldn't we occasionally examine the "not fun" aspects of power? Or why not examine what is fun for Spawn? Why "should" they be this way? Maybe you mean that you don't like seeing Flash sad? "Must there be sad superhero movies?"
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Jan 5, 2021 02:00
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Mr. Apollo posted:Snyder said he has a large print of the photo hanging in his office but he felt it was “too awesome” not to share. That sounds like "She's a girl, why can't she be nice?"
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Jan 5, 2021 02:06
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lessthankyle posted:Why should Flash be fun? Isn't his whole deal based around stopping his mom from being murdered? ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh This is something that hack fraud Geoff Johns added like 10 years ago because he decided not enough super heroes had dead parents I guess. Prior to that Flash for the longest time was one of the few major heroes without a major traumatic death in their backstory (I'm not at all against exploring dark themes in the Flash movie mind, that specific instance just galls me because it's so derivative and needless)
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Jan 5, 2021 02:06
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Guy A. Person posted:ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh That's actually really interesting to know. I don't read any comics, and my only familiarity with the Flash is in passing or through the TV show, which is *all* about his mom being murdered. edit: That also seems like it would make him a super interesting character to explore the "not fun" parts of (outside his revised backstory). No need for a traumatic past but explore the downsides of what his powers would mean (and is something Snyder has specifically said he wanted to touch on, like not being able to easily touch people while speeding).
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Jan 5, 2021 02:07
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Yeah I was kinda glad for having Flash as a hero who wouldn't have me, as a parent, tugging on my collar nervously every time my sons say they wanna be like him.
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Jan 5, 2021 02:08
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Is this whole push by very online people for "comic book films should be light-hearted and wholesome!" a direct response to Zack Snyder's films and the Snydercut folks? I remember a time when people dreaded having Batman be campy like the Adam West show and thought the Burton films were the best depiction of the character in all of human history - until Nolan came around with his epics. Like others have pointed out for every film with the tone of a Zack Snyder film there are dozens of other more "light-hearted" power fantasies. Comic books, cartoons, movies. There are a ton of them.
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Jan 5, 2021 02:08
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It's because "fans" don't know what they want or what really makes them tick and aren't comfortable with exploring their subject because they may not like what they see or what it reveals. See MoS showing how devastating a super hero battle would be and fanboys not liking it.
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Jan 5, 2021 02:13
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I don't think it's fair to lump all "fans" under that umbrella. There's a bunch of different kinds of fans. There's the kind like my one friend who sees Spider-Man as an ideal in the sense that Peter Parker embodies perseverance and smarts and fallibility-to-redemption or whatever else they've taken from the story/character and so gets mad whenever any of the pillars of the character they see as critical to their ideal are removed. Then there are the miserable-type guys who have crummy lives and see their fandom as an escape from whatever crap they're dealing with, and they demand that it be as much like a "real world" as possible so that their verisimilitude is maintained and anything that makes that world less desirable as an escape is frowned on. There's a bunch of other kinds too, people who are wallowing in nostalgia, people who like a particular moment in the media and want to see it get out to a broader audience, etc. Almost nobody is completely one kind of fan.
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Jan 5, 2021 02:31
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Jimbot posted:Is this whole push by very online people for "comic book films should be light-hearted and wholesome!" a direct response to Zack Snyder's films and the Snydercut folks? I remember a time when people dreaded having Batman be campy like the Adam West show and thought the Burton films were the best depiction of the character in all of human history - until Nolan came around with his epics. I couldn't tell you every twist and turn, but a lot of it goes back to The Watchmen (and some closely related works) and how instead of absorbing Moore's deconstruction of the superhero and becoming more creative and maybe even making some comics that aren't about people who dress up and fight each other at night, the industry instead leaned in pretty hard into trying to unironically imitate Moore on one or more levels. So there is something legitimate there, even if a given goon or argument might not articulate it well or even coherently.
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Jan 5, 2021 02:35
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RBX posted:A director's cut means what? He's not doing anything after this so what's your point? Just making a point that this statement: RBX posted:If people like Man of Steel and BVS so much then we'd still be getting more of those wouldnt we? But we're not. It's dead. They failed no matter how much you try to fight it. is inaccurate. If you want to ignore the whole Snyder Cut movement phenomenon and the resulting 4-hour Justice League miniseries on HBO Max being a thing, then you do you my guy, lol.
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Jan 5, 2021 02:36
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MacheteZombie posted:Before I forget, you didn't say which cut you prefer. I’ve only seen the 128 minute cut! RBX posted:Not always but sometimes yes. I'm tired of everything always having to be overly sad. Yes Spawn should be not fun but Flash should. The first Superman comic I ever encountered in the wild featured Superman on the cover, standing over Lois Lane’s murdered corpse, crying “Lois! I-I didn’t mean to— I-I just lost control...”. Superman #25 If I remember correctly, it was an illusion created by Brainiac for the purposes of psychological torture. Did u know: Superman’s “origin story” is that several billion people died?
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Jan 5, 2021 02:52
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KVeezy3 posted:That's my Wonder Woman.  My Diana deliberately blinds herself with snake venom so she can behead Medusa 
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Jan 5, 2021 02:54
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