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Farm Frenzy posted:the maelstrom warehouse quest and the 'organised crime' markers on the map all feel like they have way more going on the best ai i found in the game was in the organised crime down by the roller coaster in pacifica. they flanked and surrounded me and used grenades, kept switching the turrets that I shut off back on and seemed to be verbally communicating to each other, it was a genuinely fun fight (that i won by double jumping over a hot dog stand)
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Jan 14, 2021 02:54
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That's a shame, both times I did that encounter I was overleveled and nothing scratched me
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Jan 14, 2021 02:55
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of course then i did Johnny's ending and Adam Smasher got stuck on the third storey balcony and Weyland basically merked him literally lolling for me while i watched
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Jan 14, 2021 02:56
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grieving for Gandalf posted:I'm just not sure last gen consoles can really be blamed. what about this game looks like a console that could handle GTA5, RDR2, or The Witcher 3 wouldn't be able to handle it, and what would it have to do with AI pathing systems being either broken or fundamentally undercooked? Can you name any other game from this gen with the density of stuff this game can have at once, with as many destructibles with physics simulation, and car deformation, that can also handle accelerating to high speeds, all without any loading transitions? I'm not saying they couldn't have done better, maybe they could, but these things are rarely as straightforward as they appear. System limitations aren't always obvious and sometimes manifest in unexpected ways. Do you remember that awful sprint animation in ME3, after ME1 and 2's looked much better? That was apparently a RAM issue because BioWare were maxing out what was available and looking to save any scraps of memory they could find.
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Jan 14, 2021 02:58
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veni veni veni posted:Look man, I’d never fault anyone for being critical of this game. There is a lot to be critical of. I am often critical of it myself. But it has also spawned a staggering amount of just absolutely awful poo poo posting since day one, and it’s insufferable every time a wave of people who probably haven’t even played it or played it for an hour feel the need to pop into every CP2077 discussion on the forums, to dramatically doom post whenever they get the chance. I guess the thing I don’t understand is why some people seem so emotionally invested in hating it and telling everyone that likes it that they are dumb for enjoying a video game. It’s not insightful or funny or interesting, it’s just obnoxious. i have 160 hours on the game and if you think this game launched in an aceptable state im sorry dude
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Jan 14, 2021 03:04
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the pedestrians are way less weird on PC compared to ps4. i havent noticed nearly the levels of despawning or bad pathfinding or whatever that i saw in all those clips
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Jan 14, 2021 03:06
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Rinkles posted:Can you name any other game from this gen with the density of stuff this game can have at once, with as many destructibles with physics simulation, and car deformation, that can also handle accelerating to high speeds, all without any loading transitions? I'm not saying they couldn't have done better, maybe they could, but these things are rarely as straightforward as they appear. IDK, I don't think there's anything CP2077 does with its open world in the seamless loading, environmental destruction or attention to detail that's any better than say, The Division 2. And in that game the enemies actually work together and try to surround you.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:09
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Is the point of no return when you go to meet someone at Embers the end mission or just a long sequence you have to finish before side stuff is available again?
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Jan 14, 2021 03:10
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snoremac posted:Is the point of no return when you go to meet someone at Embers the end mission or just a long sequence you have to finish before side stuff is available again? The end mission
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Jan 14, 2021 03:13
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Zeta Acosta posted:i also liked it but the game is seriously broken at best and unfinished at worst Seems like it depends on the platform tho. It's not without some jank on my mid-range gaming laptop, but even then it's only really minor at best and any bugs I've encountered have been very few and far between.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:13
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exquisite tea posted:IDK, I don't think there's anything CP2077 does with its open world in the seamless loading, environmental destruction or attention to detail that's any better than say, The Division 2. And in that game the enemies actually work together and try to surround you. IDK about PC, but Cyberpunk looks way better than Div 2 on PS4. And I don't think Division 2 has anywhere near as 3 dimensional a world space as CP. Never mind the NPCs, and traffic. CP to me is much more impressive (at least in what it's trying to do), but I think it's an apple to oranges comparison regardless. Div 2 doesn't have drivable cars either, does it?
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Jan 14, 2021 03:16
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Rinkles posted:Can you name any other game from this gen with the density of stuff this game can have at once, with as many destructibles with physics simulation, and car deformation, that can also handle accelerating to high speeds, all without any loading transitions? I'm not saying they couldn't have done better, maybe they could, but these things are rarely as straightforward as they appear. I already mentioned those, and I otherwise don't buy that Cyberpunk is just too detailed and magnificent for the PS4. and if it is, that means that development time was truncated on pathing AI? that just doesn't add up if this was originally due out in April of last year, what was this doing not being cooked? this is a fundamental gameplay system that affects everything about how you interact with and travel through literally everything about the game, whether you're driving through the city or walking through a dungeon. when the taxi quest started for me, I was getting into my car in the parking garage, with only so many feet ahead of me in clearance. the taxi teleported, as the police do, and then did a scripted event. if this were GTA, or a more well-developed game, at least some attempt would have been made to make that event at least appear to be organic at first. instead, there is no pathing AI that can be piggyback'd off of to lead into the taxi crashing into me, so it's a dud!
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Jan 14, 2021 03:19
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The three-dimensional world space you keep talking about is not really all that interesting to me. You can get to the top of some buildings, sometimes there's an item box there, big whoop. The story missions barely make use of this verticality except the few times you go up and down an elevator. Everything about the NPC movement and traffic just feels so supremely off that I find it detracting to the overall experience.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:19
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exquisite tea posted:The three-dimensional world space you keep talking about is not really interesting to me. You can get to the top of some buildings, sometimes there's an item box there, big whoop. The story missions barely make use of this verticality except the few times you go up and down an elevator. Everything about the NPC movement and traffic just feels so supremely off that I find it distracting to the overall experience. So? Doesn't mean it's easy.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:20
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afflictionwisp posted:Imma touch this poop a little to remind people that "Solved in GTA" doesnt mean that CDPR could just hop up on github and grab a copy of Rockstar's code. Their engine didn't have complex traffic AI, so they probably wrote it from scratch. What we're seeing is their first production iteration of it. I'm unaware of any traffic simulation middleware Yeah no poo poo its not easy. What I'm saying this is something that has been successfully implemented across multiple console generations and many open world games. Something that even I took for granted, and now thats it not here, its loving bewildering because its not something I even expected to be missing!!!
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Jan 14, 2021 03:20
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grieving for Gandalf posted:when the taxi quest started for me, I was getting into my car in the parking garage, with only so many feet ahead of me in clearance. the taxi teleported, as the police do, and then did a scripted event. if this were GTA, or a more well-developed game, at least some attempt would have been made to make that event at least appear to be organic at first. instead, there is no pathing AI that can be piggyback'd off of to lead into the taxi crashing into me, so it's a dud! yes some missions are clearly in a very rough state. sinner man is early access at points.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:22
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snoremac posted:Is the point of no return when you go to meet someone at Embers the end mission or just a long sequence you have to finish before side stuff is available again? You even get a big old notification saying "hey, this is the point of no return." You go through whatever path you've chosen (Panam, Rogue, Hanako, suicide or solo), and then you can go back and finish off whatever you left on the table before you went to chat with Hanako at Embers. If you choose the Panam end, which is the best one and the only actual happy ending, and you romanced Judy, absolutely give her a call.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:22
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yeah, they can't just ask Rockstar for their code, but when scoping out an open world game, you have to have this stuff. the Just Cause games have this, even the bad ones. and that's all of them but maybe two!
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Jan 14, 2021 03:22
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Zeta Acosta posted:i have 160 hours on the game and if you think this game launched in an aceptable state im sorry dude Well I guess it’s a good thing I never said that at all then.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:23
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Rinkles posted:yes some missions are clearly in a very rough state. sinner man is early access at points. the sinnerman car chase is broken to hell, cars that appears from thin air just to crash into you, changes in climate street to street the thornton that drives like poo poo. in me second playtrough i really didnt want to do it again so i killed everyone.-
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Jan 14, 2021 03:25
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grieving for Gandalf posted:yeah, they can't just ask Rockstar for their code, but when scoping out an open world game, you have to have this stuff. the Just Cause games have this, even the bad ones. and that's all of them but maybe two! Yeah no one's saying that they need to literally ask rockstar to copy/paste code, but how do you go and make an open world game and just not have this? Its loving insane
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Jan 14, 2021 03:26
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No-one really mentions how broken the audio is and how bad the sound design is in places. If you're in the CBD stop and listen. The background ambient noise either doesn't exist or doesn't play most of the time. It's really bad and of all the immersion breaking things in the game I think for me it's the worst.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:27
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Rinkles posted:yes some missions are clearly in a very rough state. sinner man is early access at points. My biggest gripe is with The Beast In Me, where whatever car I've got often handles like rear end when racing.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:29
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I bought a Javelina on my Nomad for Claire's missions and it was a breeze. Felt good. The Beast is complete rear end by comparison, and when bounding over the rocks in that floaty POS it handled like one of those bargain bin Dessert (sic) Racer games that turn out to be a front for money laundering.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:32
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grieving for Gandalf posted:when the taxi quest started for me, I was getting into my car in the parking garage, with only so many feet ahead of me in clearance. the taxi teleported, as the police do, and then did a scripted event. if this were GTA, or a more well-developed game, at least some attempt would have been made to make that event at least appear to be organic at first. instead, there is no pathing AI that can be piggyback'd off of to lead into the taxi crashing into me, so it's a dud! The cab is parked when you walk in the garage. When I get to that point in my next playthrough I'm gonna try to blow it up to see what happens.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:33
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Zeta Acosta posted:the sinnerman car chase is broken to hell, cars that appears from thin air just to crash into you, changes in climate street to street the thornton that drives like poo poo. https://i.imgur.com/0SsxBHL.mp4
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Jan 14, 2021 03:34
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exquisite tea posted:The three-dimensional world space you keep talking about is not really all that interesting to me. You can get to the top of some buildings, sometimes there's an item box there, big whoop. The story missions barely make use of this verticality except the few times you go up and down an elevator. Everything about the NPC movement and traffic just feels so supremely off that I find it detracting to the overall experience. you just flipped from a technical complaint to an artistic one but you can climb up the side of buildings and find completely different routes through the vast majority of missions. its like the one thing this game does really well
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Jan 14, 2021 03:37
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I said it a while back, but I think even trying to incorporate GTA style police stuff was a mistake. They tried to make these police chases that were a direct copy of what GTA does without the capability of pulling it off, which makes it way more glaring than it needs to be. I honestly can't think of a time I intentionally tried to rack up the police meter. It's always the result of me accidentally bumping into a pedestrian or something. it's just a nuisance that detracts from the game. I think a crime system that involves sending random encounters with bounty hunters, blade runner types that get increasingly harder depending on the level of crime, would have been both thematically more interesting, and easier to pull off if they couldn't implement proper chase mechanics. In a lot of ways the failed open world stuff is a failure of not thinking outside the box and just trying to go for the status quo for contemporary open world games, as much as it's a failure on a mechanical level. CP2077 didn't need to be so easily comparable to a rockstar game to begin with and I don't understand why they went so hard in that direction if they couldn't make it work.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:42
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every AAA game has the absolute worst loving discourse weird!  I don't disparage anyone who likes or doesn't like this game, but this thread is combative as hell, my friends
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Jan 14, 2021 03:42
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veni veni veni posted:I said it a while back, but I think even trying to incorporate GTA style police stuff was a mistake. They tried to make these police chases that were a direct copy of what GTA does without the capability of pulling it off, which makes it way more glaring than it needs to be. I honestly can't think of a time I intentionally tried to rack up the police meter. It's always the result of me accidentally bumping into a pedestrian or something. it's just a nuisance that detracts from the game. i think this was pretty much their plan. in the early gameplay I remember them saying that youd actually have a bounty that you could pay off
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Jan 14, 2021 03:44
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If they didn't have the institutional programming know-how to make driving look and feel good they should have scaled driving back. Unfortunately their huge and antiseptic gameworld basically requires it. Having traversed the entire map, some of the areas have a lot of visual personality (the 6th street territory and Pacifica especially) but the verticality is, I think, pretty oversold in this thread. The amount of stuff on top of stuff isn't that significant once you factor out, like, walking corridors and effectively empty streets. You can reach a lot of rooftops where people have left alcohol you can sell for 5 eurodollars a pop... It's dense in places, but unless you're really into advertising or industrial air conditioning design it's not as fun or illuminating to explore, the way Kirkwall or Talos I or DX's Hong Kong are. If it plays like narrative RPG developers' first crack at an open world immersive sim, that's because it is... provided you choose not to regard The Witcher 3 as a measuring stick for what they're capable of in terms of openness or immersion. There are people who say the game is unfinished, and people who know that "unfinished" is another way of saying "it's not currently all good but we expect it to become good" and want the former folks to fess up to the game being all good now. There are also people who think the core design is awkward and that polish won't change much. A crowdfunded or early access game could get away with big messy changes to core systems, but a big worldbeater like this? Doubtful. They could add three more kinds of LMG and they would all suck, because LMGs are purposefully unpurposeful.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:45
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Firstborn posted:every AAA game has the absolute worst loving discourse people talking about stuff isn't the absolute worst loving discourse, babe
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Jan 14, 2021 03:46
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Firstborn posted:every AAA game has the absolute worst loving discourse I thought the game was okay, but it's in dire need of patching.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:48
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Jan 14, 2021 03:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sZnEYtn664
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Jan 14, 2021 03:50
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The car and police AI is a joke but the actual driving is really fun. i don't really get that complaint. Some of the early cars handle like poo poo, but you have access to good ones really early on. I rarely fast travel because I find just driving around and looking at the scenery to be one of the best parts of the game.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:50
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Funky See Funky Do posted:No-one really mentions how broken the audio is and how bad the sound design is in places. If you're in the CBD stop and listen. The background ambient noise either doesn't exist or doesn't play most of the time. It's really bad and of all the immersion breaking things in the game I think for me it's the worst. This is definitely a thing I've noticed that I didn't want to add to my one argument about a complete lack of enemy agency because some super defensive person would just dismiss the argument and claim nitpicking
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Jan 14, 2021 03:54
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veni veni veni posted:The car and police AI is a joke but the actual driving is really fun. i don't really get that complaint. Some of the early cars handle like poo poo, but you have access to good ones really early on. I rarely fast travel because I find just driving around and looking at the scenery to be one of the best parts of the game. I've never so enjoyed a game this busted, and I played early DayZ alphas.
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Jan 14, 2021 03:55
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And, again, I'm not a computer programmer person, but I never see anyone mention mgs5, or maybe I've missed it. The way to interact with that game was really fun, but it obviously has less npcs or whatever and a much smaller world, i think. But at the same time, I mean...
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Jan 14, 2021 03:56
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Six AM posted:And, again, I'm not a computer programmer person, but I never see anyone mention mgs5, or maybe I've missed it. The way to interact with that game was really fun, but it obviously has less npcs or whatever and a much smaller world, i think. But at the same time, I mean... MGS5 is like the inverse example to Cyberpunk because the gameplay is fantastic and well-developed, but it's not a great comparison. the real point of contention here is that Cyberpunk just doesn't seem to have been managed well if all these fundamental systems to the gameplay experience are busted, undercooked, or not there
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Jan 14, 2021 03:59
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