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jokes posted:Warhammer building system is the only good one. Troy diplomacy (and resources) is the only good diplomacy, though Warhammer diplomacy is at least simple.
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Feb 1, 2021 18:26
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Yeah, the flavor/setting of Warhammer is so great that it's still my favorite, but pretty much everything else about 3K is better.
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Feb 1, 2021 18:32
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I kinda liked the SHogun 2 system, where building slots were really limited so you were encouraged to hyper specialise.
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Feb 1, 2021 18:38
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I am still really new to the modern TW series but I can say for sure having played nothing but vanilla, they need to pick one or two out of the following three when it comes to delaying the teching up of settlements 1) making growth take forever; 2) having higher-tier settlement upgrades take 4+ population surplus and 3) having higher-tier building upgrades come with 4+ turn building times. Using all 3, like Warhammer 2 does now, means I struggle to even see most T4 or T5 units before the campaign is effectively decided since you end up doing the bulk of the really impactful campaigning with armies of T1 and T2 units plus whatever elites you can dig up from your starting lord, some RoRs, or other mechanics that let you get your hands on high-tier units early (imperial supplies, blessed spawnings, Malus' beast rite, etc.) Sieges have been discussed to death and I don't think I have any analysis that hasn't been said before. Sieges should at the very least be as fun as regular battles, not something that makes me want to log off of the game when I get one I can't autoresolve. Building and using siege equipment sucks, everyone (it seems) just cheeses these because the way CA seems to want you do sieges is so unbelievably dense - does anyone ever march their army/siege weapons up to the gates in a slow line the way the AI does? Maybe they could use the dilemma system to offer some risk/reward for attackers by having dilemmas in the pre-battle screen that could lead to advanced starting positions, open gates or wall breaches, or place one or two units on the top of a wall or inside the gate on the positive side but risk starting with units damaged or debuffed or a boost to the defender's towers if the dilemmas fail? IDK Diplomacy definitely needs clarification at the least, and hopefully an overhaul at best. "Moderate" chance of success means "hell no" in my experience and it's crazy that you have to pay someone weaker than you and already friendly to agree to a trade agreement that benefits them way more than it does you sometimes. Something should be done so that you don't have to essentially beeline to lightning strike on almost every single lord - if they're going to keep it as is, just give it to all level 10 lords or something because it's very boring and not that rewarding to spend your early game beelining blue line skills on pretty much every non-mage legendary lord. Skaven ambush on attack is hot bullshit too. My last wish would be some solution to how frequently you have to level up your lords and heroes. I think maybe slowing down the individual levels but giving characters 2-3 skill points a go would be a lot more satisfying than slowly plinking in single points, but having to level up multiple characters almost every single turn can get exhausting. These are just my thoughts as a guy who enjoyed the very early TW and then took almost ten years off, then played 200+ hours of TWII in quarantine lol. It's been very interesting reading how some of the other TW games have iterated on these systems but to be honest, the fantasy/magic nature of Warhammer means I'm not very likely to try out those others. The "mystical" units in Troy looked like infantry with fancy armor essentially - I want my dragons and necrofexes dammit!
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Feb 1, 2021 18:52
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Trading in Troy was miserable when I played it Sarpedon with like 20 trade partners all of who needed a new agreement every 5 turns or something, gently caress off with that poo poo
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Feb 1, 2021 19:05
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rideANDxORdie posted:These are just my thoughts as a guy who enjoyed the very early TW and then took almost ten years off, then played 200+ hours of TWII in quarantine lol. It's been very interesting reading how some of the other TW games have iterated on these systems but to be honest, the fantasy/magic nature of Warhammer means I'm not very likely to try out those others. The "mystical" units in Troy looked like infantry with fancy armor essentially - I want my dragons and necrofexes dammit! Same. I have 100+ hours in Medieval 2 from 15~ years ago and I've tried several TW games since then but none have clicked. The fantasy elements and contrasts between all the different races in this game are what make it amazing. Maybe I'll feel different when I'm 130 hours in rather than 30 hours but Humans Are Boring and I don't care at all to see them fight each other
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Feb 1, 2021 19:10
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rideANDxORdie posted:I am still really new to the modern TW series but I can say for sure having played nothing but vanilla, they need to pick one or two out of the following three when it comes to delaying the teching up of settlements 1) making growth take forever; 2) having higher-tier settlement upgrades take 4+ population surplus and 3) having higher-tier building upgrades come with 4+ turn building times. Using all 3, like Warhammer 2 does now, means I struggle to even see most T4 or T5 units before the campaign is effectively decided since you end up doing the bulk of the really impactful campaigning with armies of T1 and T2 units plus whatever elites you can dig up from your starting lord, some RoRs, or other mechanics that let you get your hands on high-tier units early (imperial supplies, blessed spawnings, Malus' beast rite, etc.) Just going to piggy back off this to explain why I think 3K does a lot of the mechanics better. Some of this stuff wouldn't work for Warhammer but it'd be nice if it did. Settlement growth and population surplus for upgrades isn't a thing. You can upgrade a city whenever you want as long as you have the money to do so. Higher tier cities require food, which is a resource you get from agricultural lands/buildings. You can run a deficit on food, but your public order will suffer and your armies will slowly starve to death, so it's not recommended. The population of a city is something you can track, but it's not tied to whether your city can be upgraded, it just shows how many people are living there. Honestly you don't even really need to pay attention to it but there are benefits/cons. Higher population regions = faster replenishment and more tax revenue, but also public order penalties because of overcrowding. Unit recruitment is not tied to buildings at all, but rather your general's level (like RoR but for each individual general) and in some cases technology. This means you can get higher tier units relatively quickly if you're fighting a lot of battles and your generals are gaining experience, but your economy is not going to be strong enough to sustain many of them at first. You also can't recruit any unit with any general, each is sort of specialized for specific types of units. Every general can recruit any type of militia (tier 1) unit, but higher tiers require the appropriate general type. One specializes in heavy cavalry, one in archers/artillery, etc. City sieges in 3K are like they used to be in older TW titles. The city has four sides so it's not a frontal assault every time, and you get your street fights and everything you used to. Smaller settlement (non-capital regions of a province) cannot have walls. They have some streets and towers, maybe a few natural obstacles, and at higher tiers a decent sized garrison, but fighting a smaller settlement battle is ALWAYS a field battle rather than a siege. The AI in 3K is also generally much more willing to fight your army in the field as well. I think in a single 3K campaign I'll fight more field battles than I do in 10 Warhammer campaigns. 3K diplomacy tells you exactly why the other faction does or doesn't like you, and it tells you exactly how much you need to do in order to get the deal. There is no guessing about whether they will accept or not. For example, maybe you want to make peace with an enemy faction. The screen tells you their opinion of this idea is -10. You can trade them a couple items, and maybe some gold, and as long as that -10 turns into a 0 or a positive number, they will accept the deal. The opposite is also true. If you're beating the poo poo out of the enemy and offer peace, and their idea of it is at +25, you can extort money and items out of them and as long as that number doesn't go below 0, they will always accept. Lord leveling is fast at first but slows down, you will build your generals very differently based on their roles and there isn't really a cookie-cutter build because most generals have slightly different trees and perks. I haven't found clicking points on people every turn to be a real problem until later in the game when you have lots of characters. The lightning strike equivalent where you can try to isolate one army is called Night Battle and it's not available to every general, but rather only certain types of generals (usually strategists). Additionally, if a reinforcement army has an officer that is capable of fighting night battles, they will not be cut off as reinforcements and will be able to support the army being attacked like normal. There is only one faction that has ambush on attack and they're mountain bandits so it fits thematically.
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Feb 1, 2021 19:25
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Ammanas posted:Thats how RoRs work already but unlocks faction wide Yeah but if you want to move recruiting units off buildings and onto individual lords you want something more like the 3k system of lords unlock the unique units individually. 3K also has tech unlock units rather than buildings for the non-unique units so there's definitely some experimentation for that kind of system happening.
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Feb 2, 2021 00:05
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Theswarms posted:Yeah but if you want to move recruiting units off buildings and onto individual lords you want something more like the 3k system of lords unlock the unique units individually.
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Feb 2, 2021 01:25
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Depending on how they do it I'd even be okay with buildings unlocking recruitment of the unit.... but recruitment anywhere. Each new copy of the building in different provinces ups the starting recruit rank, reduces recruitment cost, or increases the number that can be recruited at one time or something. This would address one of my biggest annoyances, which is adding high tier units to my distant field armies that need them most. By the time my core provinces are built up enough to get the good stuff my main armies might be turns away. The global recruitment premium always feels lovely to pay.
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Feb 2, 2021 02:00
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Giodo! posted:This would address one of my biggest annoyances, which is adding high tier units to my distant field armies that need them most. By the time my core provinces are built up enough to get the good stuff my main armies might be turns away. The global recruitment premium always feels lovely to pay.
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Feb 2, 2021 02:16
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Hopefully they go with the mustering system of ToB/3K. Then you could recruit anything anywhere and just have a different number of turns mustering based on how far away you are from the buildings, in/out of your territory etc.
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Feb 2, 2021 02:21
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The mage talked about how pissed he was on friday, and then about how confident and sure of his knowledge he was today, so what I'm saying is if these trends continue we're gonna have one horny wizard tomorrow
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Feb 2, 2021 05:44
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Note that the constellations being used are quite specific. Grungni's Baldric is the star sign related to martial prowess, and the one used today, The Piper, is the sign related to tricksters. Or, in other words, Khorne and Tzeentch. So whether they're teasing Chaos in general, or making some veiled comment as to starting factions - as there is an argument to be made for separate daemon factions - is something to be speculated about.
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Feb 2, 2021 05:56
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Please, those could just as easily apply to Gork and Mork. Kunnin and Brutal and both love to fight to a horny degree and they accept themselves being nothing more than fighters. Twin Mushroom Gods confirmed.
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Feb 2, 2021 06:01
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Lol, what if Chaos is the DLC for pre-order and all the other speculations races are in WH3? But then this is a pretty stretched out announcement just for a DLC I suppose.
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Feb 2, 2021 08:38
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A lot of people here have their hopes way to high for what WH3 is going to do, when CA couldn't even do rites for WH1 factions and almost sunk an entire faction when going from WH1 to 2.
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Feb 2, 2021 10:07
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My concern is how the map will get even bigger and unwieldy. Game already drags as-is.
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Feb 2, 2021 10:12
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Yeah, and on the other hand they improved campaign map performance to an almost absurd degree, enabled and encouraged a lot of mod functionality over the years, and have continuously iterated on new mechanics that have been totally rad (and OP). There might be some merit to being excited at what CA could do in a new game, I don't fuckin know 
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Feb 2, 2021 10:24
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The mods are awesome. There are so many and you can customize your game in so many fun ways. I love it
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Feb 2, 2021 10:27
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Both remaining constellations, and 5 hours earlier than normal. https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1356543720682901504 Also this image popped up in some Discord. Could be amazing fan art, could be a leak who knows. Pretty sweet either way and I hope we get it. 
Anno fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Feb 2, 2021 |
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Feb 2, 2021 11:26
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Electronico6 posted:A lot of people here have their hopes way to high for what WH3 is going to do, when CA couldn't even do rites for WH1 factions and almost sunk an entire faction when going from WH1 to 2. Absolute fucken mystery that the TWWH2 thread might be excited for TWWH3
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Feb 2, 2021 11:33
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Anno posted:Both remaining constellations, and 5 hours earlier than normal. So we got constellations for the four chaos gods plus Cacklefax and Ursa minor at the end of each video. Cacklefax represents merchants and commerce so probably refer to Dogs of War and Ursa is a bear which refers to Kislev.
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Feb 2, 2021 11:43
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Anno posted:Also this image popped up in some Discord. Could be amazing fan art, could be a leak who knows. Pretty sweet either way and I hope we get it.
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Feb 2, 2021 11:43
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Randarkman posted:Yeah, those scattered ideas together with playing a bit of historical grab bag is more than enough to build a decent WH race from, considering CA's past forays into that with Vampire Coast and Norsca (though that was more just grasping at any published GW material they could use for those and extrapolating from there). If the Genevieve books are anything to go by then they have literal kung fu chaos sorcerers and kung fu inquisitors that hunt them. Like, you can't loving tell me that that would not be cool as poo poo to see in action. Just some dude whipping chaosy lightning bolts with his sick kick flips at an equally kung fu monster hunter trying to take him out. And all that doesn't get into the elemental stuff. Said chaos sorcerer doesn't summon demons. He summons up a bunch of elementals, including one representing wood. The protagonist has to use some weird mix of exploiting their weaknesses and enmity towards each other to beat them. I think the fight ends with something extremely metal like the fire elemental straight up breathing it's flamethrower breath down the gigantic wood elemental's throat or something like that. Which sounds as good of an idea for a kill animation in the game as anything.  Cathay definitely has more than enough lore for a full faction. Heck, there's probably enough for three of them if you go with all the esoteric lore. Which would let you get some sort of Warhammer-esque Romance of the Three Kingdoms sort of situation only with literal monkey kings, dragon emperors, and other crazy poo poo duking it out. Archonex fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Feb 2, 2021 |
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Feb 2, 2021 11:52
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:So we got constellations for the four chaos gods plus Cacklefax and Ursa minor at the end of each video. Cacklefax might also be Greasus Goldtooth the Shockingly Obese. Whose entire thing is being absurdly wealthy whilst still an Ogre.
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Feb 2, 2021 11:57
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Lord_Magmar posted:Cacklefax might also be Greasus Goldtooth the Shockingly Obese. Whose entire thing is being absurdly wealthy whilst still an Ogre. Or the great spice traders of Cathay
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Feb 2, 2021 12:04
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H2Eau posted:Absolute fucken mystery that the TWWH2 thread might be excited for TWWH3 I'm talking about thinking or hoping that CA is going to bring 3K style recruitment, diplomacy, or settlement management. WH3 at it's heart is an expansion to WH1, not a new game like 3K or even Troy. The WH1 and WH2 stuff have to slot in to WH3, cause that's what CA has been building all along, one game with all the content from the other 2. New factions will get new stuff to play around, climate will probably be gone, maybe we'll get region trading at last, sieges will be reworked and still be bad, but at the end of the day you don't have to wonder much about what kind of game WH3 will be, cause you've been playing it for the last 6 years.
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Feb 2, 2021 12:07
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Electronico6 posted:I'm talking about thinking or hoping that CA is going to bring 3K style recruitment, diplomacy, or settlement management. WH3 at it's heart is an expansion to WH1, not a new game like 3K or even Troy. The WH1 and WH2 stuff have to slot in to WH3, cause that's what CA has been building all along, one game with all the content from the other 2. I'm not overly hopeful for anything more than that, but who knows? Nothing has been shown off yet. They've done more and more interesting things over the life of TWWH2. At the bare minimum it's 4 - 5 race packs in one hit
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Feb 2, 2021 12:12
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It means more things to smash and to smash with
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Feb 2, 2021 12:16
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Given the fact that Ogres are prolific mercenaries cacklefax can just as easily apply to them
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Feb 2, 2021 13:06
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i assume that warhammer 3 will just be a modified warhammer 2 engine, but yeah i'd love to see it on the 3k one. battles are fuckin vicious and coming back to warhammer makes everything feel a bit like units of bumper cars bouncing off eachother at the very least i want the instant (or i would settle for making everything 1 turn) recruitment, improved diplomacy, improved campaign AI (i mean it may actually be worse technically, but it fights you a LOT more and knows when its beaten too) and definitely the improved skirmisher responsiveness though i think we saw from Troy that hacking those back into the warhammer engine doesnt necessarily work
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Feb 2, 2021 13:51
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Give me Chaos Dwarfs or give me death.
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Feb 2, 2021 14:02
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The bears in that image have the same tusks GW showed in their Kislev preview some months ago. Hm, it may actually be official art.
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Feb 2, 2021 14:08
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im really hype for ham3's assumed factions. i guess i'm an edgelord cause i'm a fan of all of them chorfs get the good hats and i used to think they were badass as a wee'n, assyrian fire dwarves riding flying bulls is a great look and they have a really cool roster of warmachines, magic and chaff goblins ogres have some great lore as the guys who were meant to be the worlds protagonists but ended up as the hungriest dudes imaginable instead and have a cool/problematic mongolian motif but instead of riding horses and shooting bows they dominate militarily by being uge and i like chaos as long as its split into the 4 factions, undivided is kinda boring but i like all the multicoloured factions and their infighting
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Feb 2, 2021 14:08
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What I imagine is that there will be an undivided Daemon faction led by Bel'akor (the only Daemon to have the blessing of all four chaos gods) who can recruit whoever they want and then the aligned lords will have some restriction on recruiting units from the other gods with extra restrictions on their direct opposite Chaos Daemons may be in a war of annihilation with each other in the Realm of Chaos but when they break through to the mortal realm then they do actually work together against the mortals. This can take the form of actually mystically binding pacts or competitions. Its 40k but there was a story about a combined Slaanesh and Khorne attack on an Eldar craftworld where The Masque (Slaanesh) claimed they could reap more Eldar souls than Skarbrand (Khorne). Of course The Masque was using Skarbrand as a pawn but regardless it just illustrates that while they might be in diametric opposition the idea of elements of the different Daemonic hosts working together is not nearly as uncommon or against the lore as some people think.
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Feb 2, 2021 14:27
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Well, Rhya's Cauldron after all! Called that one wrong, but neat. Bel'akor is fun because of his eternal curse that he's never allowed to be the main character, for his crime of trying to become a 5th Chaos God. It's one of the few times the Chaos Gods smacked someone down with a vengeance and I'm like 'yeah that actually totally rules, good one Chaos Gods'.
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Feb 2, 2021 14:36
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Going to choose to believe this is official, or at least otherwise it's an incredibly well-timed piece of fanart. Regardless, that's super dope.
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Feb 2, 2021 14:46
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yeah that art rules. was never particularly interested in Kislev as a faction but just seeing that has changed my mind
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Feb 2, 2021 14:56
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I picked a good week to get into this series finally lol. CHAOS DWARFS!!
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Feb 2, 2021 14:57
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