The NEW Wrestling Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread... Thread.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > The NEW Wrestling Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread... Thread.

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bartok: May 10, 2006

a cyborg mug posted:

Talking about Okada over in NJPW thread got me thinking: which wrestlers across history would you say fit the same kind of role Okada has?

Like Okada is a respected and beloved guy and the face of his promotion, but also is an expert at tweaking his character to a heelish tweener to make crowds root for his opponents. He�s a final boss-level threat to anyone and always a realistic challenger for the main belt, but is also able to make people think just about anyone might get the pin on him. Etc.

I�m currently at work and can�t dedicate my time to thinking about this so nothing�s coming to mind immediately. What do y�all think?

Edit: wow bad at writing

Bret Hart and I agree John Cena as well

# ? Jan 27, 2021 15:32

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# ? May 1, 2024 04:41

Ganso Bomb: Oct 24, 2005; turn it all around

a cyborg mug posted:

Talking about Okada over in NJPW thread got me thinking: which wrestlers across history would you say fit the same kind of role Okada has?

Like Okada is a respected and beloved guy and the face of his promotion, but also is an expert at tweaking his character to a heelish tweener to make crowds root for his opponents. He�s a final boss-level threat to anyone and always a realistic challenger for the main belt, but is also able to make people think just about anyone might get the pin on him. Etc.

I�m currently at work and can�t dedicate my time to thinking about this so nothing�s coming to mind immediately. What do y�all think?

Edit: wow bad at writing

I know he's a huge chud and everyone is tired of him as a person (and getting there as a performer), but Jericho absolutely fits this. He even has the ability to get bumped down to the mid-card like Weird Okada did and still come back as a believable main eventer.

# ? Jan 27, 2021 15:33

SG Bamboo: Aug 21, 2013; Smile. Win. Yay!

a cyborg mug posted:

Talking about Okada over in NJPW thread got me thinking: which wrestlers across history would you say fit the same kind of role Okada has?

Like Okada is a respected and beloved guy and the face of his promotion, but also is an expert at tweaking his character to a heelish tweener to make crowds root for his opponents. He�s a final boss-level threat to anyone and always a realistic challenger for the main belt, but is also able to make people think just about anyone might get the pin on him. Etc.

I�m currently at work and can�t dedicate my time to thinking about this so nothing�s coming to mind immediately. What do y�all think?

Edit: wow bad at writing

Less so now he's a broken down shell of himself, but Tanahashi 5 years ago was absolutely this.

# ? Jan 27, 2021 16:23

Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

Most of the time the main person or at least main heel in a successful and good promotion will be that type of wrestler. the rock and kurt angle did those things during their times on top and eddie guerrero should have been doing it for like 10 years before he finally was given the chance. with kurt and eddie they weren't the face of the promotion but could have been, while doing everything to shine up the whole place and often carrying full cards with their match

Cavauro fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jan 27, 2021

# ? Jan 27, 2021 18:23

FakePoet: Feb 6, 2006; Woo. Pig. Sooie.; Hot Rope Guy

Was Mike Awesome any sort of noteworthy "thing" before his Tanaka matches in ECW?

My memory is hazy (and I was obviously much younger), but those just seemed to come out of nowhere in my mind; why was Tanaka just all of a sudden there?

# ? Jan 27, 2021 19:21

DeathChicken: Jul 9, 2012; Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself.

Awesome had a long running feud in Japan with Tanaka, they just kind of kept going with it. He'd been in ECW very sporadically before that

# ? Jan 27, 2021 19:25

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

FakePoet posted:

Was Mike Awesome any sort of noteworthy "thing" before his Tanaka matches in ECW?

My memory is hazy (and I was obviously much younger), but those just seemed to come out of nowhere in my mind; why was Tanaka just all of a sudden there?

He was a pretty big star in FMW and someone Heyman had his eye on for a few years. He'd had a few ECW matches before Tanaka but never anything sustained because he made his money in Japan. He'd probably been just as well known for his matches with Hayabusa as Tanaka before their ECW matches. Casual death match fans would have known him from the Double Hell Exploding Pool Death Match that was on all the FMW comps in the 90s.

MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jan 27, 2021

# ? Jan 27, 2021 19:26

Trying: Sep 26, 2019

You ever think its weird that every kind of suplex gets it own name but a regular neckbreaker & Okada's air-raid crash thing both get called as neckbreakers?

# ? Jan 27, 2021 21:54

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

MassRafTer posted:

He was a pretty big star in FMW and someone Heyman had his eye on for a few years. He'd had a few ECW matches before Tanaka but never anything sustained because he made his money in Japan. He'd probably been just as well known for his matches with Hayabusa as Tanaka before their ECW matches. Casual death match fans would have known him from the Double Hell Exploding Pool Death Match that was on all the FMW comps in the 90s.

He did really well in FMW. As far as I know, there have been no real details on his death (suicide).

# ? Jan 27, 2021 22:03

DangerDummy!: Jul 7, 2009

I remember hearing a code of ethics laid out by Karl Gotcha to his trainees, like it was almost the opposite of "lie, cheat, steal". Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or am I misremembering this? If I'm not, what was it?

# ? Jan 28, 2021 07:39

Eat My Fuc: May 29, 2007

DangerDummy! posted:

I remember hearing a code of ethics laid out by Karl Gotcha to his trainees, like it was almost the opposite of "lie, cheat, steal". Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or am I misremembering this? If I'm not, what was it?

I don�t but Karl Gotcha is hilarious.

# ? Jan 28, 2021 07:57

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

DangerDummy! posted:

I remember hearing a code of ethics laid out by Karl Gotcha to his trainees, like it was almost the opposite of "lie, cheat, steal". Does anyone know what I'm talking about, or am I misremembering this? If I'm not, what was it?

Never lie, never cheat, never quit.

# ? Jan 28, 2021 08:07

DangerDummy!: Jul 7, 2009

GEORGE W BUSHI posted:

Never lie, never cheat, never quit.

Makes sense. Thank you.

# ? Jan 28, 2021 08:24

DangerDummy!: Jul 7, 2009

Eat My Fuc posted:

I don�t but Karl Gotcha is hilarious.

Dammit.

# ? Jan 28, 2021 08:25

I Before E: Jul 2, 2012

GEORGE W BUSHI posted:

Never lie, never cheat, never quit.

Hustle, Loyalty, Respect

# ? Jan 28, 2021 09:16

FUCKFACE MORON: Apr 23, 2010; by sebmojo

DangerDummy! posted:

Karl Gotcha

# ? Jan 28, 2021 09:21

Lily Catts: Oct 17, 2012; Show me the way to you
(Heavy Metal)

Who is the most beloved former/retired NJPW wrestler? i.e. their equivalent of The Rock or Austin or Hogan. I'm guessing Chono, who shows up everywhere and seems to have massive mainstream appeal? Is Mutoh still wildly popular even if he left for AJPW? Not sure if he burned bridges for that but he seems to prefer showing up elsewhere.

# ? Jan 28, 2021 09:47

Pylons: Mar 16, 2009

Lily Catts posted:

Who is the most beloved former/retired NJPW wrestler? i.e. their equivalent of The Rock or Austin or Hogan. I'm guessing Chono, who shows up everywhere and seems to have massive mainstream appeal? Is Mutoh still wildly popular even if he left for AJPW? Not sure if he burned bridges for that but he seems to prefer showing up elsewhere.

Would it be Liger, now?

# ? Jan 28, 2021 09:52

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

Lily Catts posted:

Who is the most beloved former/retired NJPW wrestler? i.e. their equivalent of The Rock or Austin or Hogan. I'm guessing Chono, who shows up everywhere and seems to have massive mainstream appeal? Is Mutoh still wildly popular even if he left for AJPW? Not sure if he burned bridges for that but he seems to prefer showing up elsewhere.

Despite all the baggage it's probably Inoki.

# ? Jan 28, 2021 11:06

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

Lily Catts posted:

Who is the most beloved former/retired NJPW wrestler? i.e. their equivalent of The Rock or Austin or Hogan. I'm guessing Chono, who shows up everywhere and seems to have massive mainstream appeal? Is Mutoh still wildly popular even if he left for AJPW? Not sure if he burned bridges for that but he seems to prefer showing up elsewhere.

It's Choshu. He's the guy that people instantly name when they find out I'm into pro wrestling. Like even people in their 20s who weren't even born when he was in his prime. His retirement event two years ago was even shown in cinemas.

# ? Jan 28, 2021 11:55

Benne: Sep 2, 2011; STOP DOING HEROIN

Maybe not as popular as the other names, but Togi Makabe got into the daytime talk show circuit and became a fairly well-known celebrity outside wrestling, to the point where NJPW would feature him prominently in smaller towns to draw the stay-at-home moms who knew him.

Benne fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Jan 28, 2021

# ? Jan 28, 2021 12:11

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

Benne posted:

Maybe not as popular as the other names, but Togi Makabe got into the daytime talk show circuit and became a minor celebrity outside wrestling, to the point where NJPW would feature him prominently in smaller towns to draw the stay-at-home moms who knew him.

the difference with Makabe is the reaction you get when you name him is more like "ohhhh, he's a pro wrestler? Yeah... that makes sense"

# ? Jan 28, 2021 12:13

Seams: Feb 3, 2005; ROCK HARD

im lollin at the idea of Togi Makabe as Japanese Ellen

# ? Jan 28, 2021 12:24

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

GEORGE W BUSHI posted:

It's Choshu. He's the guy that people instantly name when they find out I'm into pro wrestling. Like even people in their 20s who weren't even born when he was in his prime. His retirement event two years ago was even shown in cinemas.

Interesting. I'd always heard you were asked if you were an Inoki fan or a Baba fan.

(I would have said Jumbo.)

# ? Jan 28, 2021 14:35

Lily Catts: Oct 17, 2012; Show me the way to you
(Heavy Metal)

drat! I completely forgot about Liger. It just feels like he's still attached to NJPW given his commentator work. I'm surprised about Riki Choshu, though. I haven't seen a lot of his matches, but he has a goofy Tiktok, though.

# ? Jan 28, 2021 15:12

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

Red posted:

He did really well in FMW. As far as I know, there have been no real details on his death (suicide).

You can't have that nickname styling when your ring name is already Mike Awesome.

# ? Jan 28, 2021 18:19

Kosmo Gallion: Sep 13, 2013

How many times has a go home Raw or Smackdown for the Royal Rumble ended with the entire roster brawling in the ring?

# ? Jan 28, 2021 18:36

the_Vandal: Feb 7, 2004; You make me wanna cry
You make me wanna die
I love you, I love you, I love you,
I love you, I love you
Night Man

It's Kishin Liger and if you disagree then he will loving stab you.

# ? Jan 28, 2021 18:40

Tonfa: Apr 8, 2008; I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...

Two mediocrities botching their way into a lovely heatless WMOTYC happens all the time.

But it's particularly damning when two of the best talents in the world completely whiff their highly anticipated clash with the worst match layout possible and it ends up a lovely heatless WMOTYC despite technical competence. Has there ever been a worse one of these than Okada vs Ishimori?

# ? Jan 31, 2021 17:55

The Cameo: Jan 20, 2005

Tonfa posted:

Two mediocrities botching their way into a lovely heatless WMOTYC happens all the time.

But it's particularly damning when two of the best talents in the world completely whiff their highly anticipated clash with the worst match layout possible and it ends up a lovely heatless WMOTYC despite technical competence. Has there ever been a worse one of these than Okada vs Ishimori?

Masahiro Chono vs Rick Rude at Halloween Havoc 1992, they literally had a WMOTY two months after having a clear MOTYC at the G1l/NWA title tournament final.

# ? Jan 31, 2021 18:01

harperdc: Jul 24, 2007

Dawgstar posted:

Interesting. I'd always heard you were asked if you were an Inoki fan or a Baba fan.

(I would have said Jumbo.)

That question is also kind of a �Ford or Chevy?� question to see which side of the NJPW/AJPW discussion you land on.

# ? Feb 2, 2021 11:44

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Is Roderick Strong the closest to a modern Dean Malenko? I'm asking because now after a fashion Roderick is a legend to me and will have outstanding technical matches with anyone but for years even when he was pushed at his peak as a champion he always felt less like The Guy then the best hand available. Hell it wasn't until well after his peak he developed a more rounded identity and character.

Hence the retrospective legend view but also knowing he will never be on anyones list of Hall of Fame talent from his era, but likely to leave a mark and a legacy that far outshines a lot of his peers.

# ? Feb 4, 2021 06:01

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Tonfa posted:

Two mediocrities botching their way into a lovely heatless WMOTYC happens all the time.

But it's particularly damning when two of the best talents in the world completely whiff their highly anticipated clash with the worst match layout possible and it ends up a lovely heatless WMOTYC despite technical competence. Has there ever been a worse one of these than Okada vs Ishimori?

The most common one in my view is the attempts at CM Punk v Chris Jericho because on paper their in ring work are mirrors of each other and filled similar niches. But whenever they actually wrestled it was just not there.

But yeah Okada v Ishimori is a mindfuck in how they got that match completley wrong.

# ? Feb 4, 2021 06:04

Max Coveri: Dec 23, 2015; by Athanatos

The Cameo posted:

Masahiro Chono vs Rick Rude at Halloween Havoc 1992, they literally had a WMOTY two months after having a clear MOTYC at the G1l/NWA title tournament final.

Dave's review of that match:

Meltzer posted:

The match that destroyed the show. The match that destroyed the NWA title in the United States. The only thing positive to say is that it's a good thing this wasn't televised in Japan. I wonder if this was the first time in wrestling history where two wrestlers, in their first meeting ever, had a potential match of the year, and then in their first rematch had a potential worst match of the year?

Before the match, Gary Capetta introduced Seiji Sakaguchi as NWA President, Hiro Matsuda and Manobu Nakanishi as a member of the Japanese Olympic team from Barcelona. Ross at this point commented about how glad he was he didn't have to pronounce those names. Can you imagine that comment from another perspective? Let's say Bruce Baumgardner went tothe next card at Sumo Hall, and the New Japan announcer and didn't even talk about who the guy is and blew it off with a remark like "Boy I'm sure glad I don't have to pronounce those American names."

There was no reaction at all to the two referees, an angle that had been built up on television. Madusa, fired minutes earlier, came out with Rude anyway. After a coin flip, Race was chosen to referee in the ring, Sasaki outside the ring. So this was the most screwed up match imaginable. The supposed top heel in the United States comes to ringside with a just-turned babyface who had just been fired minutes earlier but is
still there anyway after being fired, with no plausible explanation. Ross and Ventura did address the subject, but there was no answer that made sense and their attempt, saying that Rude had apparently chosen Madusa over Paul E., only served to make Rude theoretically a babyface, although in reality it made him another wrestler that nobody seemed to care about.

To make matters stranger, the heel ref, Race, was officiating right down the line. At least that was good, because a full-fledged heel ref performance would have made this match even worse. Well, Rude wasn't a babyface here. Neither was Chono. The only babyface was Ric Flair, since the first 5:00 consisted of "We Want Flair" and "Whooo" chants that the announcers couldn't acknowledge.

Chono was clearly way off because of his pinched nerve in his neck. Rude seemed disgusted. I'd guess part of it was because it became apparent he was over nowhere near the level that he probably thought he was, since nobody cared about anything that involved the match and instead used his match as a way to chant for a guy who left the promotion 16 months earlier. To make matters worse, Ross and Ventura blew the announcing here because they never explained and exclaimed when Chono put on his various submission holds, so it seemed like it was all dead time.

And to make it even worse, early in the match when Chono put on a submission, Ventura made the comment about how Rude would never submit, and Ross, who I guess didn't want to disagree, agreed with him, which basically told the viewers that all the submissions were a waste of time because a guy like Rude would never submit. Once it's established that the "big stars" are never going to submit, you've killed the entire concept of submission holds, which is exactly what happened in this country about ten years ago which created the illusion that everything but high spots can be labeled as restholds and makes it much harder to work an effective and realistic match. Thus only gimmicks and high spots get over, neither of which are realistic, and then they complain because the heels don't have heat, and it's because the style doesn't allow anyone to take the product seriously. The crowd didn't understand the holds live, but the holds had never been put over previously on television, where fans are educated to the nuances, so why should they have? I guess wrestling fans are supposed to have ESP, since Rude and Chono knew what they were doing, everyone else should have figured it out without being told as well. This made the match seem even more like it was going nowhere.

At 19:00, when they should have been building for a finish, a fight broke out which diverted everyone's attention from a supposed world title match. Both guys by this point must have figured it was hopeless, because as they worked to the finish, they were missing spots. Chono kicked Race in the face when Rude ducked. Race went out of the ring and Sasaki tried to help him up. Chono then threw Rude over the top rope and Rude landed on both Sasaki and Race knocking them both down. Rude got back in, hit the Rude Awakening, but there was no ref to count. Chono made a comeback, caught Rude in the STF, and Sasaki jumped in the ring and called for the bell to apparently signal Chono the winner via submission, although neither announcer acknowledged the word submission even existed in our language. Race overruled Sasaki and declared Rude the winner via DQ.

Boy, that was a novel finish that nobody had ever seen before. Race than tried to attack Sasaki and Sasaki did a few slams on Race, who still took those picture perfect bumps, then dropkicked Rude out of the ring. Truly a
disaster in every way.

One of the worst world title matches ever on PPV. -***

# ? Feb 5, 2021 03:21

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

It is kind of funny that ends with 'one of the worst world title matches on PPV... three stars.'

# ? Feb 5, 2021 04:35

karmicknight: Aug 21, 2011

Dawgstar posted:

It is kind of funny that ends with 'one of the worst world title matches on PPV... three stars.'

I think it's negative three stars.

# ? Feb 5, 2021 04:35

The Cameo: Jan 20, 2005

That�s a negative three

The match was so bad Dave used it as a burn just last year:

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerwon/status/1246972268833431552?s=21

The Cameo fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Feb 5, 2021

# ? Feb 5, 2021 04:35

Lazy like a Fox: Jul 8, 2003; EKO SMASH!

Lid posted:

Is Roderick Strong the closest to a modern Dean Malenko? I'm asking because now after a fashion Roderick is a legend to me and will have outstanding technical matches with anyone but for years even when he was pushed at his peak as a champion he always felt less like The Guy then the best hand available. Hell it wasn't until well after his peak he developed a more rounded identity and character.

Hence the retrospective legend view but also knowing he will never be on anyones list of Hall of Fame talent from his era, but likely to leave a mark and a legacy that far outshines a lot of his peers.

I haven't seen any of his work in NXT but I loved when Roddy's moveset was like 90% backbreakers. Everything else about him is just kind of... meh. Like I definitely couldn't describe any kind of character for him.

Also there was a great running joke here for a while that he was in an awful SciFi movie about... god, killer birds maybe?

# ? Feb 5, 2021 06:45

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

Lazy like a Fox posted:

Also there was a great running joke here for a while that he was in an awful SciFi movie about... god, killer birds maybe?

Birdemic???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE5dJDgZ644

# ? Feb 5, 2021 08:47

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# ? May 1, 2024 04:41

Lazy like a Fox: Jul 8, 2003; EKO SMASH!

GEORGE W BUSHI posted:

Birdemic???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE5dJDgZ644

Yes! I don't remember why it started, i just remember that I definitely fell for it and thought that guy was Roddy for an embarrassing amount of time.

# ? Feb 5, 2021 22:52

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > The NEW Wrestling Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread... Thread.

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