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Lightbulb Out posted:yeah BMW has traditionally been a boy racer car brand not a luxury brand The 3 series has always been a barely a luxury car. The G20 has taken a big step forward as now BMW doesn't have to make a 3 series leases for ~$300/month. There's no way to fundamentally take a $30k car and make it feel like a car that costs twice as much. Leather covered dashes and fancy seats can do so much. It's the same way a FocusRS doesn't feel like a $50k car. Also, check out some of the BMW Facebook groups these days. The Honda guys have graduated to tuning Supras and 340s.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:07
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kronix posted:The 3 series has always been a barely a luxury car. The G20 has taken a big step forward as now BMW doesn't have to make a 3 series leases for ~$300/month. There's no way to fundamentally take a $30k car and make it feel like a car that costs twice as much. Leather covered dashes and fancy seats can do so much. It's the same way a FocusRS doesn't feel like a $50k car. that doesn't change the BMW has been traditionally a "luxury" brand in the United States. Most people aren't psychos like me with a retirement plan of E30s
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Mar 3, 2021 17:11
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Lightbulb Out posted:that doesn't change the BMW has been traditionally a "luxury" brand in the United States. Most people aren't psychos like me with a retirement plan of E30s I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here? Are you saying that old M3s are luxurious enough because they were made by BMW, so are luxury by definition? Are you saying it's good that BMW is focusing on luxury in the new M3 because that's who they ostensibly are as a company? Are you saying that the new M3s can't possibly be more luxurious than the old ones, so it's just weight for no reason? I genuinely don't know.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:15
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Bape Culture posted:I’m glad my car is worse, heavier and more expensive acrually This is dumb. If you want an entry level luxury car that feels like an old M3 BMW makes that car too, it's called an M2. The G20 is about the size of an E39. It's not the lightweight, spritely car in the lineup anymore and the M3 reflects that. I don't even know what the gently caress the M5 is anymore.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:16
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KillHour posted:I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here? Are you saying that old M3s are luxurious enough because they were made by BMW, so QED? Are you saying it's good that BMW is focusing on luxury in the new M3 because that's who they ostensibly are as a company? Are you saying that the new M3s can't possibly be more luxurious than the old ones, so it's just weight for no reason? I genuinely don't know. i'm saying you are wrong for saying that they were just now targetting the m3 for being upscale luxury market when that has been the market for a long time 
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Mar 3, 2021 17:16
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guys who only acrually care about status and not vehicle dynamics is the target market. Got it
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Mar 3, 2021 17:18
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Bape Culture posted:guys who only acrually care about status and not vehicle dynamics is the target market. Got it i think BMW has been catering to this market for as long as i have been aware but there was still some bones thrown to the race car nerds. it's certainly why now that i have money to buy a new BMW i have no interest in doing so
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Mar 3, 2021 17:19
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Lightbulb Out posted:i'm saying you are wrong for saying that they were just now targetting the m3 for being upscale luxury market when that has been the market for a long time Except it's very evident sitting in previous M3s that this was not the case compared to their competition at similar prices (AMG, Audi RS, Porsche) and the new M3 is a huge step up. Like, an F80 is significantly less luxurious inside than my Stinger GT2, while a G80 is basically on par or maybe a tad above, materials wise. Bape Culture posted:guys who only acrually care about status and not vehicle dynamics is the target market. Got it kronix posted:This is dumb. If you want an entry level luxury car that feels like an old M3 BMW makes that car too, it's called an M2. If they called the M2 the M3 and made an M2 gran coupe called the M3 4 door, called the M3 the M5 and called the M5 the M7, we literally would not be having this conversation right now.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:21
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What is the usp of a 2 ton, 4wd, 100k bmw then
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Mar 3, 2021 17:21
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KillHour posted:Except it's very evident sitting in previous M3s that this was not the case compared to their competition at similar prices (AMG, Audi RS, Porsche) and the new M3 is a huge step up. Like, an F80 is significantly less luxurious inside than my Stinger GT2, while a G80 is basically on par or maybe a tad above, materials wise. “If you want an M3 buy an M2” a good opinion “If you want an m5 buy an m5” somehow not an option E: Oh. Coming from a boat that doesn’t even allow you to disengage the computers. Got it
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Mar 3, 2021 17:21
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Bape Culture posted:“If you want an M3 buy an M2” a good opinion I don't have $130k. I have $90k. I want a budget 2 door M8. Hence, M4.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:23
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KillHour posted:Except it's very evident sitting in previous M3s that this was not the case compared to their competition at similar prices (AMG, Audi RS, Porsche) and the new M3 is a huge step up. Like, an F80 is significantly less luxurious inside than my Stinger GT2, while a G80 is basically on par or maybe a tad above, materials wise. you are extremely focused on this generation and the previous generation. i am talking about BMWs since the E code. this is a trend, not a specific comparison. comparing an M3 specifically to AMG as a whole, audi RS products as a whole, and porsche as a whole is a little odd to me and frankly i don't think is really relevant when the issue is the new m3 is loving ugly
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Mar 3, 2021 17:23
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KillHour posted:I don't have $130k. I have $90k. I want a budget 2 door M8. Hence, M4. Bape Culture posted:What is the usp of a 2 ton, 4wd, 100k bmw then
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Mar 3, 2021 17:24
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Lightbulb Out posted:you are extremely focused on this generation and the previous generation. i am talking about BMWs since the E code. this is a trend, not a specific comparison. comparing an M3 specifically to AMG as a whole, audi RS products as a whole, and porsche as a whole is a little odd to me and frankly i don't think is really relevant when the issue is the new m3 is loving ugly I haven't sat in an E BMW, but by all accounts, they are extremely spartan inside. I really like the M3/M4 and complaining about how it's not what you wanted for those specific cars is not going to change my mind. They make the M2. Pull the M2 badge off and stick an M3 badge on it. You really just come off as someone who cannot understand why someone would have different priorities in a car than you and it's really sad.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:25
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KillHour posted:I haven't sat in an E BMW, but by all accounts, they are extremely spartan inside. I really like the M3/M4 and complaining about how it's not what you wanted for those specific cars is not going to change my mind. They make the M2. Pull the M2 badge off and stick an M3 badge on it. good luck with your ugly BMW
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Mar 3, 2021 17:26
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KillHour posted:I haven't sat in an E BMW, but by all accounts, they are extremely spartan inside. I really like the M3/M4 and complaining about how it's not what you wanted for those specific cars is not going to change my mind. They make the M2. Pull the M2 badge off and stick an M3 badge on it. You’re not even really understanding the debate and have no interest in driving afaict. Weird
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Mar 3, 2021 17:26
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Bape Culture posted:You’re not even really understanding the debate and have no interest in driving afaict. Weird I started the conversation with "I'm probably going to buy this" and it turned into "you're bad for buying this because it's ugly and bad" so, no, I really don't understand this debate. I have a manual track car and I use it regularly, both on and off the track. I have plenty of interest in driving. I also have an interest in having a comfortable fast daily because people can have more than one thing.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:27
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KillHour posted:You really just come off as someone who cannot understand why someone would have different priorities in a car than you and it's really sad. The sad thing is spending one hundred thousand dollars on a bad car because you want people to know you bought a one hundred thousand dollar car
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Mar 3, 2021 17:28
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Bape Culture posted:The sad thing is spending one hundred thousand dollars on a bad car because you want people to know you bought a one hundred thousand dollar car lol okay duder. It has nothing to do with me wanting that specific combination of things that make up the car. It must be because I want people to know how much I overpaid for a 3er.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:29
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On a kind of unrelated note, what in your opinion are the best designed cars released in the past couple years? Don't have to be sport sedans/coupes but no SUVs plz.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:31
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KillHour posted:lol okay duder. It has nothing to do with me wanting that specific combination of things that make up the car. It must be because I want people to know how much I overpaid for a 3er. 
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Mar 3, 2021 17:32
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Bape Culture posted:guys who only acrually care about status and not vehicle dynamics is the target market. Got it To be fair, this has always been most cars in the BMW lineup. If you didn't want something a little nicer, you'd buy a well optioned Mustang or even a Corvette instead of an M4. They've been close enough performance wise this decade that you have the really like the M4 to pay a $25k premium. People buy M3s and M4s because they're every bit as brash as something like a Mustang but they won't stand out too much from the zillion 430s that litter corporate parking lots.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:34
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GentlemanofLeisure posted:On a kind of unrelated note, what in your opinion are the best designed cars released in the past couple years? Don't have to be sport sedans/coupes but no SUVs plz. Mazda 3 Mclaren 720s Bentley exp100 Bentley flying spur Rivian RT1 Alpine A110
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Mar 3, 2021 17:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvHSmF28qc&t=166s This is going to be me except with an M4.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:35
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KillHour posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcvHSmF28qc&t=166s Hahaha. Amazing
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Mar 3, 2021 17:36
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Bape Culture posted:What is the usp of a 2 ton, 4wd, 100k bmw then KillHour posted:lol okay duder. It has nothing to do with me wanting that specific combination of things that make up the car. It must be because I want people to know how much I overpaid for a 
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Mar 3, 2021 17:48
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KillHour posted:Except it's very evident sitting in previous M3s that this was not the case compared to their competition at similar prices (AMG, Audi RS, Porsche) and the new M3 is a huge step up. Have you sat in a 996 or 997 lol
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Mar 3, 2021 17:52
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BlackMK4 posted:Have you sat in a 996 or 997 lol No, but a 911 isn't competing with an M3/M4. I've sat in a Cayman GTS 4.0 and as spec'd, it felt quite nice inside. Not very practical though.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:55
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you're allowed to like and buy whatever you want but you seem to be trying to claim that the new M3 is objectively better - am i missing something?
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Mar 3, 2021 18:06
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:you're allowed to like and buy whatever you want but you seem to be trying to claim that the new M3 is objectively better - am i missing something? I'm not sure I ever said that. It probably measures better in all the typical bench racing numbers except weight, but I didn't say it was objectively better (except for the interior, which I think everyone agrees on, but I seem to be the only person who cares). Which is fine. I just said I was probably going to buy one and spent the last 2 pages listening to how bad it is and how stupid I am.
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Mar 3, 2021 18:09
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You're getting called stupid because you're making a bunch of assertions about cars that you've never even sat in, much less driven, hope this helps
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Mar 3, 2021 18:12
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rscott posted:You're getting called stupid because you're making a bunch of assertions about cars that you've never even sat in, much less driven, hope this helps What car did I make an assertion about that I didn't drive?
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Mar 3, 2021 18:13
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KillHour posted:What car did I make an assertion about that I didn't drive? Every single BMW that has an E code chassis apparently?
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Mar 3, 2021 18:19
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KillHour posted:What car did I make an assertion about that I didn't drive? KillHour posted:No, but a 911 isn't competing with an M3/M4. I've sat in a Cayman GTS 4.0 and as spec'd, it felt quite nice inside. Not very practical though. KillHour posted:Except it's very evident sitting in previous M3s that this was not the case compared to their competition at similar prices (AMG, Audi RS, Porsche) and the new M3 is a huge step up. Like, an F80 is significantly less luxurious inside than my Stinger GT2, while a G80 is basically on par or maybe a tad above, materials wise.
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Mar 3, 2021 18:22
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rscott posted:Every single BMW that has an E code chassis apparently? The last E code BMW was from 2008 MY, so 14 years ago. The only thing I remarked about them is how they look (which I don't need to drive to have an opinion on) and that the general consensus is that an E90 3 series is not very luxurious inside, which I guess I don't have a leg to stand on if you think I'm mistaken about that. F80 is the previous generation M3, which I have driven several times. Unless the quality tanked for that generation and came back for the G80, my point stands. Also, I never said anything about the interior of those particular 911's that I have not sat in and don't compete with a 3 series because they are well over 6 figures for anything except a complete stripped out base model. If your argument is that the context I have for the new M3 does not include M3s from more than a decade ago or 911s that cost twice as much, I guess you would be correct about that. I don't think those are particularly relevant to the points I made though. KillHour fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Mar 3, 2021 |
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Mar 3, 2021 18:23
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I brought them up because they were still a step above the Cayman interior wise and were similar to the E46 / E90 M3 market wise. I would take the respective M3 model year interior over them any day
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Mar 3, 2021 18:29
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I feel like you're comparing 15 year old cars with modern cars and are surprised things may have improved over time.
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Mar 3, 2021 18:31
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rscott posted:You're getting called stupid because you're making a bunch of assertions about cars that you've never even sat in, much less driven, hope this helps Nah, this "discussion" started because he said this looks good:  while calling this a "pig nose" 
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Mar 3, 2021 18:31
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BlackMK4 posted:I brought them up because they were still a step above the Cayman interior wise and were similar to the E46 / E90 M3 market wise. I would take the respective M3 model year interior over them any day I was too young to be in the market for M3 or 911 cars at the time but you're saying the old 911s are better inside than the current Cayman and, in turn, that the old M3s were nicer inside than those 911s? I can't really say much to that other than I like the current Cayman interior (in higher trims with all the boxes checked) a lot more than the F90 interior (and actually a bit more than the G80 interior still). Lightbulb Out posted:I feel like you're comparing 15 year old cars with modern cars and are surprised things may have improved over time. How are you getting that impression? There's a reason I'm not looking at prior generation cars - I know things have improved over time and I'm happy with what BMW has done with the current M3/M4. That's literally all I'm saying.
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Mar 3, 2021 18:31
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Also he questioned my design career 
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Mar 3, 2021 18:33
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