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Voodoofly posted:Who was it that was trying to claim tracker is a town role (or maybe a scum role I just remember someone trying to say Cenas tracker claim was a plea to his alignment). Me, but I wasn't saying the role pointed to his alignment / cleared him or anything. It was weird semantics stuff we started arguing near deadline.
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Mar 4, 2021 03:06
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Sub Rosa posted:So three kills? Scientastic posted:This is a good post, immediate analysis and interesting spot on the kill, and good anti-night-action-fuckery, really like Sub Rose just for this one post I dislike both the first post and Sci's response to it. Night action speculation isn't inherently townie and it gives scum an easy thing to talk about without giving actual reads. The praise of that post by Sci feels off to me. Going back to look closer at Sub Rosa: Sub Rosa posted:I agree it was early and justified but more importantly I hate posting gimmicks even if Disco Elysium was a good game. Sub Rosa posted:Bif has been posting exclusively as a character from that game that "dramatic, pushing chaos" could be a very apt descriptor for. Sub Rosa posted:Even though it masks a person's meta? And you are have very confidently made an alignment call on that person? Sub Rosa posted:I didn't like Bif shooting so early, I think shooting D1 because use-it-or-lose-it is fine, but I think you can still have more to go on in target selection on D1. Obviously Bif was going to come under scrutiny after that, and I wanted the posting gimmick to be part of that scrutiny. Sub Rosa posted:Complaining about having to read is supposed to be a scum tell, yeah? It all feels like posting Mafia theory to give the appearance of content. This was their most in depth content D1 Sub Rosa posted:Yeah, I find myself agreeing with Keane. I go back to this post. I don't have a meta-read of Sub to compare against, but I lean scum
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Mar 4, 2021 03:17
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Voodoofly posted:Who was it that was trying to claim tracker is a town role (or maybe a scum role I just remember someone trying to say Cenas tracker claim was a plea to his alignment). It’s siv. The person you have wanted to lunch since yesterday. I don’t think you really missed this. I like voodoo and siv for scumbos. Go back and read voodoos posts and see how hard he has gone after her. And then read sivs posts where you will see almost no response to voodoos repeated attempts to get us to vote siv Full disclosure I only discovered this just now. Not really sure why but I must have skimmed over all of d1 voodoos posts. I like voodoo for scum, possibly scumbos with siv
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Mar 4, 2021 04:20
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I realize everyone responds to being called scum differently and you’re not obligated to respond to every scum accusation but for as much as voodoo tunneled siv yesterday you would expect a little pushback. There’s none.
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Mar 4, 2021 04:23
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Cena, do you have any reason to suspect jose based on his posts itt and in your mason chat
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Mar 4, 2021 04:26
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spacing in vienna posted:Me, but I wasn't saying the role pointed to his alignment / cleared him or anything. It was weird semantics stuff we started arguing near deadline. You did also unvote him in that post didn’t you? I can’t quite recall now Sorry I’ve been quiet, king day at work and I’m pretty tired now, I’ll have more in the morning he
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Mar 4, 2021 04:31
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b-minus1 posted:It’s siv. The person you have wanted to lunch since yesterday. I don’t think you really missed this. I’m sorry to disappoint you with my normally flawless memory, but yeah I didn’t remember it was her. It didn’t stick out to me when I reread her today and it wasn’t part of the reason I voted her again today. I was actually thinking about it and wondering if it was Steak or somehow involved Steak because he agreed with my post that I was ignoring all the vig and meta stuff early day one, and thought it might be a contradiction. However while I don’t agree with your case on me I do agree with finding SiV scummy although for different reasons.
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Mar 4, 2021 04:50
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Jose Valasquez posted:I dislike both the first post and Sci's response to it. Night action speculation isn't inherently townie and it gives scum an easy thing to talk about without giving actual reads. One of the posts on Sci I was going to quote but didn’t was how he was calling subs post good for night action inspection but then almost immediately later told Steak (or someone) not to draw conclusions from night actions. I’m still not sure if it’s that big a deal and I’m much more bothered by his calling people’s alignment based on one off posts, especially when I consider science a player who often wants to look at things in a full picture sort of way or at least in more context of what is happening. Calling steak town because it’s almost childlike to post about alignment, or sub town for reading the kill flavor, just feels wrong from science.
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Mar 4, 2021 04:56
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spacing in vienna posted:I thought I said -- at the time, I thought grandi was awkward, but that he often has awkward posts d1 and is often voted for it, so I was a little unsure of those posts but willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I mean I hear what you are saying but it still seems strange and I mean this with all respect: if I’m scum in your shoes I’m pulling the exact sort of stuff with grand to try and keep him with me until the end.
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Mar 4, 2021 05:00
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out of all the people posting today, i'd like to vote josev or cena the most
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Mar 4, 2021 07:59
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Voodoofly posted:Science I still don’t see how you are clearing Sub off one post, calling IA scum off one post, and then also clearing steak off one post in a way that makes it sound like steak is too naive to do something performative as scum. Because one post is enough to form an opinion. I’ve been trying to do this more recently, trying to understand the motivation and thinking behind posts, instead of relying on classic scum tells. Largely because all of the things I was told are scum tells when I started playing, that townies should avoid at all costs, all seem to be things that the newer players do all the time. I read Steak’s post and I find it psychologically townie. I find Rosa’s post (and posts in general) to be motivated by a townie feeling. That is not to say he is “cleared”, you’re mischaracterising my current impression of their alignment. I found IA’s vote for Grandicap to be over the top and scummy and put him on my “scummy enough to pay more attention to” radar. Again, you’re overstating how strongly I have voiced that opinion, he’s on the scummier end of the spectrum because of that post, but you’ll notice I am not voting for him. I wrote a list of players and judged how I felt about their alignment based on their posts around Grandicap, you’re acting like I’m forcing stronger alignment reads than I’ve actually made. Except on Steak, he’d have to do something really loving scummy to make me change my mind.
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Mar 4, 2021 08:17
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I don’t understand why Voodoofly is so antsy about making an alignment call off one post. In my experience, one scummy post is how you start realising that someone is scum. And that one scummy post is sometimes all you need.
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Mar 4, 2021 08:18
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Jose Valasquez posted:I dislike both the first post and Sci's response to it. Night action speculation isn't inherently townie and it gives scum an easy thing to talk about without giving actual reads. This is interesting to me: I initially read Sub Rosa’s post as saying “let’s not put too much weight on night actions, because there could be all sorts going on”, which is what I found townie. But actually, you’re right, I think I read it through the lens of my own thinking, and it’s not saying what I thought.
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Mar 4, 2021 08:27
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Voodoofly posted:
Yes, it is a scummy vote
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Mar 4, 2021 08:30
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b-minus1 posted:It’s siv. The person you have wanted to lunch since yesterday. I don’t think you really missed this. I’m not sure we should be making judgement calls about whether we believe VF’s recollection of D1 when he has been very clear about why he didn’t have his mind on the game.
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Mar 4, 2021 08:32
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Rereading Rosa, I am rescinding my town call, I was misinterpreting what was being said. Reading it back, I can’t for the life of me understand what I was thinking, I completely read it wrong in a way, just looking for what I wanted to see rather than what was written. It’s literally the opposite of what I thought it was, it’s incredible to me that I read it wrong.
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Mar 4, 2021 08:39
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Voodoofly are you scum? You can just put it in spoilers and tell everybody only CCKeane can read it.
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Mar 4, 2021 11:52
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b-minus1 posted:Keane Jose voodoo AA Mr. Steak posted:im glad you did it so i didnt have to feel guilty about doing so myself -- CCKeane posted:This is a recurring issue with this community, it's lovely and embarrassing and people need to knock this lurker poo poo off. I wasn't lurking, I wasn't on the forums. Is this just a lie? b- used the dark arts (unless I'm misinterpreting I think in the same way steak did) and they said you were in fact on the forums.
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Mar 4, 2021 12:31
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Scientastic posted:Rereading Rosa, I am rescinding my town call, I was misinterpreting what was being said. Well, I agree there is something incredible about your posting this game.
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Mar 4, 2021 12:38
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Sub Rosa posted:Is this just a lie? b- used the dark arts (unless I'm misinterpreting I think in the same way steak did) and they said you were in fact on the forums. I can't see any posts from Keane anywhere other than mafia games, so I don't think we can draw that conclusion
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Mar 4, 2021 12:39
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there's also other forums besides the game room
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Mar 4, 2021 12:47
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I buy the lurking accusation if people are posting on other forums, but not if they just appear in the online users. People leave their computers on all the time, in a recent game Grandicap was on SA on a tab on his phone like 24h after he had last been actually active online and presumably would have shown up as an online user. You can't accuse someone of lurking just for not being around, if CCKeane was active in another game or another forum at the same time, then fine, but lurking is different to "not posting"
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Mar 4, 2021 12:54
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Scientastic posted:if they just appear in the online users Assuming this is what Rosa/B- are driving at
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Mar 4, 2021 12:55
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Scientastic posted:Assuming this is what Rosa/B- are driving at I've never used the dark arts, so more info on how it's a fallible method is useful, thanks
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Mar 4, 2021 12:59
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Scientastic posted:I don’t understand why Voodoofly is so antsy about making an alignment call off one post. Because you have made two alignment calls of town based on one post. One was sub Rosa reading kill flavor. (You then say we should not dray conclusions from night action stuff a post or two later). One was steak posting about his alignment PM. Saying he is too naive to post something tricky basically. Neither of those feel legitimate to me, especially from you. These aren’t gut calls on a scummy post that ping you and then make you look more closely at the game. You might be trying something new but I don’t think town science actually reads those two posts, by themselves, and goes “cool two townies identified nothing more to see with them”.
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Mar 4, 2021 13:04
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Wait is the lurker argument not just that people weren’t around but also that they were “online” or logged in to the forums but not posting? Because that is even dumber than just calling people out for not being around in general.
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Mar 4, 2021 13:08
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CCKeane posted:Voodoofly are you scum? You can just put it in spoilers and tell everybody only CCKeane can read it. [spoilers]nope[/spoilers] I am tired though.
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Mar 4, 2021 13:10
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Scientastic posted:This is interesting to me: I initially read Sub Rosa’s post as saying “let’s not put too much weight on night actions, because there could be all sorts going on”, which is what I found townie. So are you still defending your “this one post by sub is totally town” when I said it’s scummy and threw me off while also admitting you completely read it wrong and it was saying the opposite of why you called him town based off just that one post?
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Mar 4, 2021 13:13
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Voodoofly posted:So are you still defending your “this one post by sub is totally town” when I said it’s scummy and threw me off while also admitting you completely read it wrong and it was saying the opposite of why you called him town based off just that one post? What, no, how did you read it like that? I’m saying that I drew the wrong conclusion from Sub’s post and I shouldn’t have. Where do you get the idea that I am defending that stance. I’m trying to admit I was wrong. It doesn’t come naturally.
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Mar 4, 2021 13:23
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Voodoofly posted:Wait is the lurker argument not just that people weren’t around but also that they were “online” or logged in to the forums but not posting? I have seen people make this argument in the past, and yes, it is very dumb I don’t know that we can assume that’s what B- is doing, though: Rosa is saying that, but I see no evidence that B- is doing anything other than calling out people who aren’t posting enough Which is also dumb, just not as dumb
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Mar 4, 2021 13:25
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Can’t really quote right now but your big response to me is that you find subs posts in general to be townie. The post in question though says just that one post is enough to clear you. You have since said you completely misread that one post. So is sub still town to you?
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Mar 4, 2021 13:26
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Scientastic posted:This is a good post, immediate analysis and interesting spot on the kill, and good anti-night-action-fuckery, really like Sub Rose just for this one post This one
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Mar 4, 2021 13:27
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I think I already said that I was taking back my town call, but I haven’t had time to do enough of a thorough reread in that new context My concern would be that my initial impression was overly influenced by my misreading of that post, so I need to take some time to retrain my brain to the idea that Sub isn’t townie and read their posts in a less potentially biased way So no alignment call on Sub right now, maybe I can read again later
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Mar 4, 2021 13:33
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I’d also quibble with the IA vote being scummy. IA spent a good chuck of day 1 flabbergasted at the idea that people let “anti-town” behaviour slide, such as bif shooting someone for no real reason. Grand was shouting from the roof that bif had to be town for that exact anti-town behaviour. He then adds in his feelings from playing with grand as scum in their last game together. It’s not an amazing case but in all the day 1 stuff flying around it doesn’t look that scummy to me but you calling him scum for that vote alone isn’t really enough to make me think twice. But really it’s your response to sub and steak that make me think you are scum. The IA thing also feels like another example of you not really looking at peoples posts in the whole and instead trying to make judgment calls off one post.
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Mar 4, 2021 13:33
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Scientastic posted:I think I already said that I was taking back my town call, but I haven’t had time to do enough of a thorough reread in that new context I’m going to try and get more sleep then reread you. These last couple posts feel more like you but I’m getting punchdrunk from another night of no sleep and waking up at 400am
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Mar 4, 2021 13:36
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Scientastic posted:This is the over explained vote? Lol what makes my grandi vote scummy exactly? Just so I can know for future reference.
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Mar 4, 2021 13:52
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Idle Amalgam posted:Lol what makes my grandi vote scummy exactly? Just so I can know for future reference. Sure. Idle Amalgam posted:I think grandi is a good vote from the day if meta is allowed in our toolkits lol1 1. Explaining that you are going to use meta, while self-consciously acknowledging that you shouldn't, preempting any attack on your use of meta 2. Blaming Grandicap for your read if you're wrong, you get to distance yourself from actually making that call yourself 3. Preempting the idea that you are wrong, distancing yourself again from any blame The whole post is self-consciously attempting to remove any negative consequences for the vote. As it turns out, Grandi was SK, but scum wouldn't know that, they would naturally (I think) assume that if Grandi wasn't on their team, he's town, so try to get him executed while maintaining a healthy distance from the execution itself
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Mar 4, 2021 14:18
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I was not using the forbidden technique when I made that post. It was more a comment on people with low post content/not around during deadline
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Mar 4, 2021 14:46
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Scientastic posted:Sure. 1. Was jab at grandi from this game because he said meta should be in a player's toolkit. 2. I figured I wasn't wrong given he was acting very similarly. I just feel my cheekiness has greater clarity than it actually does. Normally, I hate meta. I think I even lamented the use of it in this game, but the meta with grandi and I, is fresh. While I'm never 100% certain of anything, I was at least pretty sure he wasn't town. 3p was a surprise to me. And now I see the play I saw was just his non town behavior. My meta database has been updated as a result. 3. I'm a self-deprecating, self-absorbed, lout. We've only got a handful of games together so it's probably fair you still find this suspicious.
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Mar 4, 2021 15:06
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I think bee might be town. I don't think I've ever seen Keane miffed about anything in mafia. I think toal is probably scum. I think keane could be scum despite the whole presence debacle.
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Mar 4, 2021 15:18
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