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Neddy Seagoon posted:Except he wasn't wrong and out of touch, he was repeatedly vindicated by the end of the series. And it was shown going on in the flashbacks as being cool and good as well. And as I myself said it's not intentional but it still winds up there. Yeah we had this conversation when the show was running. There's plenty of scenes in isolation where its possible to read Picard as being wrong and out of touch, but the show always vindicates him, sometimes in terrible ways. Take the bar fight on the Romulan refugee planet - one way of looking at it is that Picard is an insensitive grumpy old man who insults the traumatised refugees. The other way of looking at it is that Picard cynically picks a fight with some racists in order to provoke Elnor to kill a guy and join him. Both of those interpretations make Picard look terrible.
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Mar 3, 2021 14:04
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Why are people with no prior experience in television given the job of showrunner?
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Mar 3, 2021 15:44
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Mar 3, 2021 15:50
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just started a rewatch of Lower Decks and like usual, the early episodes are a hell of a lot better knowing more about the characters. Its just soo good
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Mar 4, 2021 05:33
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Alchenar posted:Yeah we had this conversation when the show was running. There's plenty of scenes in isolation where its possible to read Picard as being wrong and out of touch, but the show always vindicates him, sometimes in terrible ways. It's really weird, because the ending of the show is that Picard dies for the sins of the organics (oppressing the robots that built the Admonition, the synth ban, etc) and comes back to life like Jesus. The more I think about it, the more weird Christ parallels are present. Picard dies offering Soji his life to prevent the demons from devouring the sinful organic life-forms. He goes to the afterlife and has an extremely Catholic chat with Data about how mortality is the most precious thing. We get a montage of all the women wailing over Picard's body, then he miraculously returns to life. Am I reading too much into this, because it reminds me of Mel Gibson movies?
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Mar 4, 2021 06:34
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You're not reading too much into it, they may not have consciously been like "WE'LL WRITE IT SO PICARD DIES FOR HUMANITY'S SINS AND THEN IS REBORN AFTER A GNASHING OF TEETH SCENE JUST LIKE OUR LORD JESUS!!!" but general cultural inertia for what's attempting to be a mainstream franchise show in the US makes that kind of inevitable. And I agree too, there were a lot of points in the show where Picard is wrong and the show seems like it's going to go through with that but then...he's just sort of vindicated anyway? I mean it's literally the Picard show I wasn't expecting it to be a like a total scouring of Picard's character and life choices or whatever but it really did feel like overkill. Especially at the very end of the season when suddenly they're just, like, his permanent crew now off to do whatever?. The scene with Romulan refugee planet scene especially. I don't know, Picard isn't a ruthless person but given what they have go down in the leadup to the show and stuff him making a horribly cynical decision now and then and it working but also backfiring or getting other folks hurt in some way wouldn't have been a horrible thing to have or have him called out on and reflect on. It wouldn't be an odd turn for a character that now can't just use the weight of being CAPTAIN Picard wherever he goes that he has to rely on his wits more than ever and that not always being the best result. The reclaimed Borg cube was my least favorite part of the show - they kept bringing up some interesting concept or new depth to it each time only to immediately brush it aside so Romulan spy siblings could have that exact same conversation with each other every episode. Like the Borg stuff could have been its own season almost or dovetailed more elegantly with the main story being about an android and people being paranoid of synthetic life but it was just this like never-quite-pulling-it-together window dressing instead. Plus Hugh, god dammit why  Anyway building all of that up the point of like, actually everyone was right and synthetic life REALLY DOES want to destroy all organic life was insanely stupid. And it was even more stupid that the beacon worked and the Reapers were summoned and visible through the portal and then the beacon was turned off and.....they left? What? Even that late in the show when they got it working I was thinking wow like are they actually really going to go through with this and change poo poo up in the setting for real? I was excited about that since this is some more post DS9/Voyager stuff but I guess not. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 20:51
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New Trek has definitely had some very interesting writing issues. Thank god they're not giving the person responsible for the Terra Firma teleplay a movie or something like that.
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Mar 5, 2021 01:26
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J33uk posted:New Trek has definitely had some very interesting writing issues. Thank god they're not giving the person responsible for the Terra Firma teleplay a movie or something like that. 
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Mar 5, 2021 01:38
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https://twitter.com/SciFiFa26502583/status/1367538518763986944 Well... they're going there I guess.
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Mar 5, 2021 05:48
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The utter lack of imagination it takes to come up with an "upgrade" like that.
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Mar 5, 2021 06:09
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Neo Rasa posted:Like the Borg stuff could have been its own season almost or dovetailed more elegantly with the main story being about an android and people being paranoid of synthetic life but it was just this like never-quite-pulling-it-together window dressing instead. The Borg stuff could have been its own show.
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Mar 5, 2021 07:20
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There are twenty million ways Picard could have been good and the 30-strong production dream team skillfully managed to evade them all.
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Mar 5, 2021 07:40
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Tiggum posted:The Borg stuff could have been its own show. That kind of is one of the things that pulls Picard apart is that between DS9, Voyager, Nemesis, and then Trek '09, the Trek universe was left with 20 years worth of both in- and out of-universe messy loose ends and the show felt the need to try and address as many of them as it could on a Prestige TV timeline, so what should have been like one season on the Federation post-Dominion War, one season on the Romulans post-supernova, and then one season the Borg post-Endgame instead tried to do everything at once because they weren't even sure they were gonna get a second season with Patrick Stewart now in his 80s even before COVID came along.
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Mar 5, 2021 07:42
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star trek is just a show we watch to see how they gently caress it up they can't make it good because the people who become producers are incapable of understanding what made tos, tng, and ds9 good.
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Mar 5, 2021 07:54
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Vasukhani posted:star trek is just a show we watch to see how they gently caress it up too real
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Mar 5, 2021 07:57
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nine-gear crow posted:That kind of is one of the things that pulls Picard apart is that between DS9, Voyager, Nemesis, and then Trek '09, the Trek universe was left with 20 years worth of both in- and out of-universe messy loose ends and the show felt the need to try and address as many of them as it could on a Prestige TV timeline, so what should have been like one season on the Federation post-Dominion War, one season on the Romulans post-supernova, and then one season the Borg post-Endgame instead tried to do everything at once because they weren't even sure they were gonna get a second season with Patrick Stewart now in his 80s even before COVID came along. Or literally don't directly address anything. It would be like if someone made two novels, one set in 1936, and one in 1966, and they spent most of the time explaining how Hitler was defeated, seeing as that's important to understand the world of 1966. All of the politics was always just background, and if you notice TNG and stuff very rarely address it besides excuses for the enterprise to go to X and meet with Z, or to set up character dynamics. Moving the timeline along is a terrible focus.
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Mar 5, 2021 08:14
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Typical Pubbie posted:The utter lack of imagination it takes to come up with an "upgrade" like that. Vasukhani posted:star trek is just a show we watch to see how they gently caress it up
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Mar 5, 2021 08:28
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The evil death robots leaving when they turned the beacon off is still pretty dumb. They're supposed to be a super advanced galaxy spanning empire of synthetic life, right? And the beacon was just to let them know that there was synthetic life that was in danger of being exterminated by organics, right? Were they just like 'Oh, they turned the beacon off. Guess they don't need us anymore."
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Mar 5, 2021 08:36
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Spanish Matlock posted:The evil death robots leaving when they turned the beacon off is still pretty dumb. They're supposed to be a super advanced galaxy spanning empire of synthetic life, right? And the beacon was just to let them know that there was synthetic life that was in danger of being exterminated by organics, right? Galaxy spanning genocide is their profession, but they're kinda lovely at it and will slack off at the slightest excuse
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Mar 5, 2021 08:44
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"Wanna kill all the humanoids?" not no, but I have this bag of funions and three days worth of sonic hedgehog rom hack videos to work through, sooo...
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Mar 5, 2021 08:49
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We'll kill all the humans next week, Fraisers back on Netflix
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Mar 5, 2021 08:53
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YOU EXIST BECAUSE WE ALLOW IT, AND YOU WILL END... when we get around, okay?
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Mar 5, 2021 11:29
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nine-gear crow posted:YOU EXIST BECAUSE WE ALLOW IT, AND YOU WILL END... when we get around, okay? I read it as the beacon being a receiving station for whatever they were using to punch through into local space, and with it gone the whole breach closes because it can't be sustained from the far end alone. The real answer is, of course, because that's how it happens at the end of Mass Effect.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:10
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https://michaelchabon.medium.com/some-notes-on-romulans-b1c7f30a383fquote:Condensed from various SI (Starfleet Intelligence) analyses, accuracy unknown. 
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Mar 9, 2021 00:08
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Disco is filming in Toronto, and some names on the trailers might indicate we meet the Federation president this year. https://twitter.com/lilian_fancy46/status/1368680640657432581
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Mar 9, 2021 01:14
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also I guess the Prime Minister of Ni'Var is back
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Mar 9, 2021 01:17
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Wow Michael Burnham is in the next season? bold choice!
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Mar 9, 2021 01:27
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FlamingLiberal posted:also I guess the Prime Minister of Ni'Var is back You called for help so we burned through a ton of our dilithium reserve to come help and then you just gently caress off, what the hell?
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Mar 9, 2021 01:32
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Please have Kurtwood Smith play the Federation President. Again. Every generation of Star Trek show must feature that man playing no fewer than 2 or 3 different roles.
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Mar 9, 2021 01:49
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We already got him on Lower Decks so I'm down to see him in Disco and (ugh) Picard S2
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Mar 9, 2021 01:53
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I would also be cool with Jeffrey Combs.
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Mar 9, 2021 01:55
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also I can't remember if I posted this already, but per Kurtzman, the S31 show is on hold until at least 1 of the 5 current shows is completely done
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Mar 9, 2021 01:55
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Snow Cone Capone posted:also I can't remember if I posted this already, but per Kurtzman, the S31 show is on hold until at least 1 of the 5 current shows is completely done I'm wondering if it's still going to happen, with the way they talked about it. Like it sounds as though they are still having discussions and nothing's being really worked on at all.
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Mar 9, 2021 02:50
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Gonz posted:I would also be cool with Jeffrey Combs. If one of these new Trek shows doesn't cast Jeffrey Combs as *something* they are making a huge mistake.
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Mar 9, 2021 02:57
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HopperUK posted:If one of these new Trek shows doesn't cast Jeffrey Combs as *something* they are making a huge mistake.
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Mar 9, 2021 02:58
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FlamingLiberal posted:It wouldn't shock me if he did a voice on Lower Decks. That should be an easy ALSO not an INSTEAD
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Mar 9, 2021 03:05
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FlamingLiberal posted:It wouldn't shock me if he did a voice on Lower Decks. Be more shocking if he didn't, really.
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Mar 9, 2021 03:07
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FlamingLiberal posted:It wouldn't shock me if he did a voice on Lower Decks. Lower Decks feels like the kind of thing where'd they'd have a conference somehow consisting of the various Combs characters so he can just talk to himself for 20 minutes
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Mar 9, 2021 03:37
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socialsecurity posted:Lower Decks feels like the kind of thing where'd they'd have a conference somehow consisting of the various Combs characters so he can just talk to himself for 20 minutes I'm up for a Combs only episode of Star Trek. The time has come.
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Mar 9, 2021 03:58
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An entire episode of Lower Decks that is just a bunch of conversations between characters voiced by Jeffrey Combs and Vaughn Armstrong.
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Mar 9, 2021 04:04
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