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Gearhead posted:Imagine a world transformed drastically by something WONDERFUL happening instead of something horrible, for a change? It's a possibility that's what happens. You've got Hydaelyn and Zodiark as two opposing forces, so unlike the First/Thirteenth there shouldn't necessarily be a massive overload of one Aspect over the other. But at the same time, it's a lot of aether generated from pre-Sundering constructs, so SOMETHING is bound to happen. Maybe it'll be a True Rejoining that doesn't involve destroying one world and causing global calamities on the Source, so the Convocation's mission is also completed but in a happy way. Hell, the rest of the ancients might get rezzed into a less godlike form so that Emet and friend's dream of restoring their people happens too.
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Mar 22, 2021 05:08
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I mean, Hydalin's also almost out of juice specifically because she's not been absorbing aether like primals normally do. So it's possible her exploding won't actually return all that much aether to the lifestream.
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Mar 22, 2021 05:12
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maybe such a dramatic change will encourage something else to try and fill the power vaccuum
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Mar 22, 2021 05:15
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Gearhead posted:Imagine a world transformed drastically by something WONDERFUL happening instead of something horrible, for a change? Don't worry, Zenos and his juicy booty is coming back for Endwalker.
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Mar 22, 2021 05:36
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no gods, no masters, no primals. hydaelen delenda est
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Mar 22, 2021 06:46
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Cleretic posted:That might not happen, because the thing that's opening the door for Zenos with Zodiark is essentially that it's an empty pilot's seat; with Elidibus gone, Zodiark has no 'heart' to control it (and perhaps, with Elidibus being walking around outside of it for so long, hasn't had a heart for a while). Whereas Hydaelyn to the best of anyone's knowledge is still being controlled just fine by Venat, given Hydaelyn's shown actual agency as recently as 2.x. important distinction: the 'elidibus' we killed was a primal manifestation of the elidibus role, not the true one. the real one is presumably still piloting Zodiark as its personality construct. or maybe not and you're right. i like to take the whole elidibus fight sequence as kind of a peek in to the kind of misery that it must be to sustain a primal existence, the same kind of misery that venat and elidibus must be going through as hydaelyn/zodiark respectively. especially since both have 'noble' goals in that they seek restoration, just in incredibly different ways
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Mar 22, 2021 08:13
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clubDeuce posted:important distinction: the 'elidibus' we killed was a primal manifestation of the elidibus role, not the true one. the real one is presumably still piloting Zodiark as its personality construct. or maybe not and you're right. The Elidibus we killed was the real Elidibus. He was sacrificed to pilot Zodiark, then the convocation couldn’t stop bickering so he (Zodiark) split off the consciousness part of himself back into Elidibus, just now as a hope primal. Then Venat and co summoned Hydaelyn, and everything split except Eli, Lahabrea, and Emet Selch. That leaves the split Zodiarks without any level of consciousness, like a car without a driver
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Mar 22, 2021 08:30
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I don’t know if it was specifically about the misery of being the heart of a primal, or just trying to write a story about an antagonist with faultless late-stage dementia. Granted his dementia was from being brainwashed as a child by the completely desperate people he currently shares eternity with, which makes it way tragic that you need to shank him.
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Mar 22, 2021 09:12
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thetoughestbean posted:The Elidibus we killed was the real Elidibus. He was sacrificed to pilot Zodiark, then the convocation couldn’t stop bickering so he (Zodiark) split off the consciousness part of himself back into Elidibus, just now as a hope primal. Then Venat and co summoned Hydaelyn, and everything split except Eli, Lahabrea, and Emet Selch. It's also strongly implied he did it out of loneliness, too, out of a desire to live among the people he saved. Elidibus probably wasn't a very good choice for Zodiark's heart, he struggled with the sheer eternity of what he had to do, in a way that apparently none of the other Ascians did judging by how they are in the present day. He also reads as a bit of a glory hound to me, that he needed to be recognized as A Hero for what he did, and couldn't stand being locked away from people who'd call him one.
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Mar 22, 2021 09:13
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Cleretic posted:It's also strongly implied he did it out of loneliness, too, out of a desire to live among the people he saved. So, in other words, a teenager.
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Mar 22, 2021 09:38
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I think it wasn't so much that Elidibus was a bad choice so much as that he was the only choice. Imagine Emet as a hope elemental, lol
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Mar 22, 2021 09:40
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Chillgamesh posted:I think it wasn't so much that Elidibus was a bad choice so much as that he was the only choice. Imagine Emet as a hope elemental, lol He wasn’t the only choice, he wasn’t even the first choice! It was supposed to be Gaia, but I think Artemis talked her/the rest of the convocation out of it
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Mar 22, 2021 09:42
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thetoughestbean posted:He wasn’t the only choice, he wasn’t even the first choice! It was supposed to be Gaia, but I think Artemis talked her/the rest of the convocation out of it The only choice meaning that he was the best of a poor selection. Every single one of them would have failed in a different way.
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Mar 22, 2021 09:45
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Chillgamesh posted:The only choice meaning that he was the best of a poor selection. Every single one of them would have failed in a different way. I think Gaia might have legitimately been a better choice. It kept Elidibus around to keep people from fighting while sacrificing someone more suitable for the job. Mostly I think that Artemis is deeply, deeply selfish
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Mar 22, 2021 09:47
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Cleretic posted:Yeah, Hydaelyn is actually much more interesting as essentially a 'Primal of Benevolence'. Making her evil is just... guys, we're gonna be fighting a purple rock at the end of this next expansion, do you REALLY think fighting a blue rock as well because it's been declared evil is going to be more interesting?  I suspect Hydaelyn will probably sacrifice herself in a call back to the Ultima Weapon fight to protect or empower us in the final conflict, though there may be preliminary telegraphy on the topic with her fading etc.
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Mar 22, 2021 10:00
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Valhawk posted:I mean except for all scenes of absorbing light aether showing the Blessing of Light magic circle. Theres no blessing of light magic circle in those scenes, just the WoL and the Warden's light.
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Mar 22, 2021 10:08
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:So, in other words, a teenager.
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Mar 22, 2021 13:30
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thetoughestbean posted:I think Gaia might have legitimately been a better choice. It kept Elidibus around to keep people from fighting while sacrificing someone more suitable for the job. Gaia would've been a bad choice for a different reason. She'd probably have understood her duty and stayed in there, but Artemis wouldn't have been able to take it because, yeah, they're deeply selfish and we know that because of when we met them. Looking at all the other Ascians we've met... I don't think any of them would've volunteered, but most of them would've been better than Elidibus--most definitely the two other Paragons. Lahabrea apparently went mad over time because of how he conducted himself as an Ascian, so if he became Zodiark then you'd have presumably ended up with a very rational and considered Zodiark judging by what we know of him in Amaurot Days. And Emet might be a depressed sack of poo poo but he's a depressed sack of poo poo willing to buckle down and do his job, so he'd at least have kept doing it unlike Elidibus. (EDIT: Plus if Elidibus weren't outside of Zodiark doing his thing, the Source wouldn't have had the AT LEAST TWO evil empires he founded, so hard to say that's not an improvement.) For the rest... Gaia and Artemis would've been bad choices just because Artemis is a fucker, but that's kinda it. The evidence we have seems to suggest that Fandaniel went crazy over time, so even he'd have probably been trustworthy in the seat. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 13:57
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what if hydaelyn was evil, but she tells you that she only pretended to be evil so your friends wouldn't feel bad killing her because like all primals, her being alive sucks the aether out or something. pack it, ship it, goty2021
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Mar 22, 2021 14:17
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I don't think Hydaelin has to be evil for her to be an antagonistic, or at least ultimately harmful influence. Like the big reveal with Zodiark is that he wasn't evil either but that they were both deeply flawed solutions to a very big problem and that darkness and light don't have any inherent moral value of them in any case. And especially as Azem was apparently against the creation of both and presumably wanted to deal with the Sound in a more hand-on Trial-ly manner I would ve very surprised if Hydaelyn by one means or another had to disappear for a classic SMT neutral ending that places the responsibility of the world back in the hands of mortals without any more well-meaning primal induced catastrophes.
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Mar 22, 2021 14:23
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My guess is we'll get some sort of Hydalin/Zodiark merger that causes them to cancel out or something.
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Mar 22, 2021 16:03
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Zeruel posted:what if hydaelyn was evil, but she tells you that she only pretended to be evil so your friends wouldn't feel bad killing her because like all primals, her being alive sucks the aether out or something. G'raha tried that after you beat Vauthry and literally nobody believed it then either.
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Mar 22, 2021 16:12
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the_steve posted:G'raha tried that after you beat Vauthry and literally nobody believed it then either. And then we find out that Venat was also Sundered and G'raha was one of their fragments all along. Edit: In fact, all the Catpeople in our lives are people we used to know!
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Mar 22, 2021 17:27
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I missed it, how is it that Elidibus is running around doing thangs but Venat isn’t? Ostensibly the manner in which Elidibus serves as Zodiark’s heart, so too should Venat with Hydaelyn.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:46
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jokes posted:I missed it, how is it that Elidibus is running around doing thangs but Venat isn’t? Elidibus was driven by his duty to his people, and the council, in ways that are hard to describe. When the council began to argue among themselves about the next course of action after having saved the world he basically had a fit, because it was his entire job to find common ground for everyone to work with and bring the council to consensus. Not being Literally Alphinaud circa ARR, Venat likely is more stable in their connection to Hydelain, if not as powerful. More simply: Elidibus was so driven by the idea of Making Everyone Get Along that the Primal built around him had a mental breakdown and ejected a part of itself in order to Make Everyone Get Along. Gearhead fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 17:50
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jokes posted:I missed it, how is it that Elidibus is running around doing thangs but Venat isn’t? Ostensibly the manner in which Elidibus serves as Zodiark’s heart, so too should Venat with Hydaelyn. Thinking about it- Elidibus, beyond being the heart of Zodiark, was also the mouthpiece, yes? Maybe Venat's aether long since dissipated into the greater Hydaelyn out of need (she was starving), hence needing Minfilia (in this supposition) to take their place.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:51
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Hydaelyn needs a snack stat. Maybe she should gobble up the 13th to recharge? Nobody would complain. Demons aren’t generally a nice thing to have around.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:09
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jokes posted:Hydaelyn needs a snack stat. Maybe she should gobble up the 13th to recharge? Nobody would complain. Demons aren’t generally a nice thing to have around. pretty sure eating that much dark aether would kill her.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:12
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Also we've got a questline now explicitly about fixing the 13th.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:15
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apostateCourier posted:pretty sure eating that much dark aether would kill her. There's no aether left in the 13th.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:23
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Then that's just empty calories.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:24
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:There's no aether left in the 13th. The demons are made of aether, aren't they?
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Mar 22, 2021 18:31
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the_steve posted:G'raha tried that after you beat Vauthry and literally nobody believed it then either. I so loved that nobody believed G'raha's obvious lie. Poor catboy really thought he was being clever and everyone was just all 'what you've been all over the WoL's dick since the beginning and were super genuine about your love for them and their impact on your life, this plan is dumb man'.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:35
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The 13th is full of beings twisted from being aether-starved. Life needs ambient aether to survive and the 13th don’t have none no more— it’s all darkness. Same way the flood of light on the first causes everything to be turned into Only Light. Difference is light aether is a stasis, dark aether is chaotic. I believe that doesn’t mean there’s no aether, it’s just all spoken for and isn’t in any normally usable form, so the demons are thirsty as poo poo but can still shoot fireballs or whatever jokes fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 18:41
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did they ever say why the 3 weren't sundered?
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Mar 22, 2021 20:20
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Kerrzhe posted:did they ever say why the 3 weren't sundered? It's still a mystery how they alone escaped sundering.
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Mar 22, 2021 20:33
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Either Zodiark or Pandemonium could potentially answer that question, even in passing.
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Mar 22, 2021 20:36
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jokes posted:Hydaelyn needs a snack stat. Maybe she should gobble up the 13th to recharge? Nobody would complain. Demons aren’t generally a nice thing to have around. Ironically, it almost seems like the Source has kind of adapted to having voidsent around filling an ecological and social niche.
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Mar 22, 2021 20:58
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Well I guess there are 2 voidsent with jobs, but otherwise they're just tools of war or other terrible things. Not sure they're really filling a useful niche.
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Mar 22, 2021 21:09
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Well I guess there are 2 voidsent with jobs, but otherwise they're just tools of war or other terrible things. More in the sense of "not only do various ecosystems rely on the presence of voidsent like bombs, but also multiple cultures seem to regularly practice the summoning of voidsent." Honestly, Bozja is really weird here because the mages there have summoned familiars and this isn't at all a thing about how Eorzean mage disciplines outside of Arcanist do it. And those familiars are sprites and other vaguely-explained elemental entities, not carbuncles or other such constructs. It's one of those things where I wonder if we're just not supposed to be doing it or if devs just didn't care to make it fit or what. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 21:35
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