|
For someone who's trying to make the jump into management, are career coaching firms worth it? I've been in IT engineering for about 13 years and I just started my MBA, so in about two years I'll be looking for some kind of management position, ideally on a career path that ends in CIO/CTO. I don't really know how to market myself for that kind of job, or what other skills I should try and develop between now and then. Would it be worthwhile to engage some sort of outside assistance?
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 22:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 6, 2024 18:05 |
|
|
fatman1683 posted:For someone who's trying to make the jump into management, are career coaching firms worth it? I've been in IT engineering for about 13 years and I just started my MBA, so in about two years I'll be looking for some kind of management position, ideally on a career path that ends in CIO/CTO. I would have been applying to management roles 2-3 years ago and went down the MBA route (if needed) once you were in the roll. So I guess I would start applying now. What opportunities for leadership assignments do you have at your current place? volunteer for those.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 23:04
|
|
|
fatman1683 posted:For someone who's trying to make the jump into management, are career coaching firms worth it? I've been in IT engineering for about 13 years and I just started my MBA, so in about two years I'll be looking for some kind of management position, ideally on a career path that ends in CIO/CTO. Write down every single time you led a team or took initiative on a project even if unofficially. Also add any awards and accolades and make resume bullets. In my opinion, a good manager is good to their people and is able to motivate them while having enough sternness and distance to make sure that they actually do their jobs. Now you have to balance that against your companys directives which is the part that sucks and is very hard. It is easy to be good to your employees and it is easy to get rid if people taking up space. The really hard part is maintaining that balance while trying to reach unrealistic expectations from people above. In tour case, a reasonably priced and very well researched leadership program could be very useful. Just remember, that majority of them are probably fluff, lies, and overpriced l for what they give.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 23:13
|
|
|
Nitramster posted:Salesforce Admin/Developer - I was told about salesforce from a part time coworker in his 50's whos kids had moved out and his wife had passed away and he joined Geek Squad as an afternoon hobby and to help his kids with college. He told me the dumbest person at his company was the lady they hired to be their salesforce admin, and she was making 6 figures. I laughed and carried on with promises of Geek Squad glory. Okay that's an exaggeration, but I was moving up so I didn't really look into it., path of least resistance etc. Well I have been messing around on trailhead.com for a few months now and reading about these amazing salaries and it looks to me like something I could do, and make a lot of money doing it. One good thing about Salesforce is that they have a wealth of training resources on Trailhead. They do a good job of giving an overview of the various types of SFDC toucher roles out there (admin, dev, architect, consultant, marketing practitioner, etc.), required skills, day-to-day responsibilities, average salaries, and types of training to focus on. There’s plenty of free content for you to gently caress around with to get familiar. I’m picking up pieces of SFDC in a marketing technology role (so coming from a digital marketing background vs. IT), and my sense is that practical experience with the platform, knowledge of sales processes, and problem solving are really important, regardless of the role you choose. Knowing a lot about B2B enterprise sales in particular, and how to make life easier for your average sales person using SFDC, for instance, will be a huge advantage. No two companies have the same SFDC setup; marketing/sales tech stack; sales ops organizational structure; or sophistication of users, so your day to day could be vastly different depending on the company. Quarterroys fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Mar 12, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 23:25
|
|
|
spwrozek posted:I would have been applying to management roles 2-3 years ago and went down the MBA route (if needed) once you were in the roll. So I guess I would start applying now. What opportunities for leadership assignments do you have at your current place? volunteer for those. Right now (and for at least the next couple of years) I'm a military contractor, so my role is pretty narrowly defined and there aren't a lot of opportunities, as such. I'd have to take a different job, and I'm not in a position right now to take a major pay cut to shift into management. Things should line up around the time I'm finishing my MBA and I'll be able to sacrifice salary to get more management experience. Meshka posted:Write down every single time you led a team or took initiative on a project even if unofficially. Also add any awards and accolades and make resume bullets. In my opinion, a good manager is good to their people and is able to motivate them while having enough sternness and distance to make sure that they actually do their jobs. Now you have to balance that against your companys directives which is the part that sucks and is very hard. I've been lucky enough to have some really good leaders and worked at places with healthy management cultures, so I kind of know what I want my management style to be, I just haven't had much of a chance to put it into practice. Do you have any recommendations for leadership courses or programs?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2021 23:34
|
|
|
Fwiw, I've been in management for 13+ years, I've raised up a half dozen or so managers directly and hired a couple more, and I've never hired someone without management experience to a manager role. As a military contractor your routes are limited, but try to look for ways to even get "team lead" experience at your current place. It's really hard to jump from an IC to a manager as part of a job switch. I'd consider it too much risk in most situations.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 01:29
|
|
|
I posted a little early in the thread having myself a little freakout. First time manager. I did what lockback is suggesting. Team lead roles and then some project/program mgmt which was good for exposure to budget, staffing, etc. I got my shot through a bit of a winding road but core reason was because I knew a VP and he had a position where the value of a fresh thinker outweighed a known quantity. So it really is preparation plus opportunity. I have an MBA and it helped with some skills and a bit of credentialing but was not definitive. The VP who gave me the mgmt shot is openly disdainful of the degree, if that paints the picture lol. There's an mba thread that's low traffic but people usually pop up when there's activity. Idk if it's just been my experience but it has really been a lot of hussle, selling myself and taking charge of my own development just getting to this point. Which doesn't feel particularly elevated. I'm jealous of the people who seem to sort of glide up a conveyor belt of promotions.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2021 02:34
|
|
|
Okay I'm freaking out. I make about $93k right now. Just Friday my boss told me that in a few years (when our current guy retires) he'd like to see me as the manager of our R/D facility and test lab. That sounds cool as hell and I want to do it. However, it looks like I have a written offer incoming for $115k. Big jump, but I'd be designing fridges for RVs. I'd be stupid to not make the jump... or would I?
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2021 15:45
|
|
|
Let's assume that the current test lab manager retires in five years, you get his job, and both companies give you a 2% raise every year. At your current job, you make $484k in that time period, but at the new job you make $599k. I'd need something pretty good to walk away from that much more money, and I'm guessing you would too. Do you have something that good where you are?
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2021 15:58
|
|
|
Don't ever sit around and wait for someone to retire. So much can happen between now and whenever that happens. If the new job is something you'd rather do I'd strongly lean in that direction. If you have those skills good chance you'd be on track for management at the new place in roughly the same timeline anyway.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2021 16:05
|
|
|
Lockback posted:If the new job is something you'd rather do I'd strongly lean in that direction. It isn't though, that's the thing. It's a lot of money but it doesn't sound very exciting. That's one reason I'm kinda hesitant about it. It isn't great here either, mind you, but I like what I do. That's a huge jump in pay though. Huge.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2021 16:15
|
|
|
If you leave on good enough terms, no saying you couldn't be rehired when the time comes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2021 16:21
|
|
|
Schmeichy posted:If you leave on good enough terms, no saying you couldn't be rehired when the time comes. It's not impossible, but if it's the kind of job where they're going to be targeting internal candidates in the first place, then the person who left 4-5 years ago isn't going to get coached into the new position.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
So I need some advice. I'm an engineer in northern Indiana. Dometic Corporation wants to hire me for $115k. I make about $93k right now. It's a big jump. Talking to some people though, engineers are leaving Dometic in droves. A couple of the people we've hired recently came from there and apparently 'it's a mess.' I can't get anything more out of them than that without revealing that I'm maybe going to work for them. Is this a huge red flag? I'm comfortable where I am and it's tempting to call the whole thing off, but I might just be getting cold feet. Thoughts? They just moved their HQ and shut down a testing facility about an hour away and I think they're consolidating it into this new building they're leasing. Not sure if any of that has anything to do with anything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
CornHolio posted:So I need some advice. If I were you, I'd start thinking of yourself as having more power in this situation than you seem to be giving yourself credit for. I'm not sure how much job searching or interviewing you've been doing, but here's what you've said: 1. You're underpaid by at least about $20k 2. You have a job currently, and not only to they want to keep you, they claim to want to promote you 3. You have an offer from another company, so that's at least 2 companies that want you to work for them 4. You don't seem excited about the new company, and people are fleeing from that company in droves If I were in your position, I'd start figuring out if you want to work for the new company. They clearly want you, so you have the power to decide if you want them. If not, then start interviewing elsewhere, knowing that your market value is at minimum $115k. I'm not saying to use that number (in fact, don't give a number), but use that as the floor of what you can be making and know that you can pick who you are working for.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2021 20:06
|
|
|
ObsidianBeast posted:If I were you, I'd start thinking of yourself as having more power in this situation than you seem to be giving yourself credit for. I'm not sure how much job searching or interviewing you've been doing, but here's what you've said: Every other place I interviewed at (there have been a few) would have been a pay cut. I learned that I make more than some managers at my current company, more than almost every other engineer, and 115k would be more than my boss makes. So maybe I'm punching above my weight, maybe there's huge red flags at this new place. I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2021 20:11
|
|
|
You already work at an org that's a mess, you just happen to like your colleagues and it's a mess you know. how do you know the people coming to your little shitshow are good or competent? I didn't realize it's Dometic, that's funny, but makes sense based on your description. If you take the job at Dometic, every single day you show up for work you make $88 more than you do at your current joint.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2021 20:17
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You already work at an org that's a mess, you just happen to like your colleagues and it's a mess you know. how do you know the people coming to your little shitshow are good or competent? Is there anything you can tell me about Dometic? PM is fine. Am I walking into a trap?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2021 20:33
|
|
|
I'm soon coming up on the point where I'm actually allowed to change jobs after 5 years on a work visa. I work as an e-learning designer, but up until now that's been something I did because it was what I had experience in and what was the most likely to keep me in the country. I don't think I particularly enjoy it. I want to find a new job when I can. But I've been thinking about what I want to do, or what I can pivot into, and I was wondering if this thread had any suggestions. My current thoughts are to start actually sitting down and getting serious with html, javascript, php etc. so I can get into web development. I have experience with cobbling things together when the default e-learning programs weren't cutting it for our ridiculously specific requirements that week, so it might be something I could jump off on. Does anyone have any recommendation about getting into that kind of job? Or is there anything else I might be overlooking? I enjoy language, design, interactivity, creation and things like that. But my current industry doesn't seem to be a great opportunity for that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 11:43
|
|
|
womb with a view posted:I'm soon coming up on the point where I'm actually allowed to change jobs after 5 years on a work visa. I work as an e-learning designer, but up until now that's been something I did because it was what I had experience in and what was the most likely to keep me in the country. I don't think I particularly enjoy it. You have a good background for either a UX Designer or a more UX-focused front end developer, depending on your technical skills. The former is probably not too far off from what you're doing now but with more focus on layout, design, "pop", things of that nature than just "how to get this content in". The latter would need a good base of programming and depending on the company would dictate how much latitude you get to be creative. What do you like and what do you not like about your current role?
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2021 15:53
|
|
|
Hi BFC I’m in a weird spot. I started as a Systems Engineer (product integration, hardware/software, not the IT systems) right out of college at a large company. The team was big, lots of people were moving up, despite our main markets shrinking. There was good new product development efforts. I signed up for a Masters degree that was during work hours, paid for, etc, with the only caveat being that it took awhile (4yrs) to complete. Of course, a lot changed in 4 years and now having survived a large layoff recently, I’m getting the sense that it’s time to move on on my own terms and sooner than later. New product development is hurt and it sure seems like they’ve shifted entirely to managed decline, letting managers go and spreading their responsibility out - no backfilling. I’m about to have a masters in product development in hand in August, but I don’t see an internal path any longer for the job I had eventually targeted (technical program manager.) I’ve started applying for jobs but I’m feeling some difficulty in targeting the right roles that would take a chance on me. I have 6 years under the same title (System Engineer) even though more recently I’ve been doing work that I would consider being “assistant technical program manager.” Notably though, I really don’t have any hard technical skills anymore. My bachelors is in electrical engineering, but I don’t have the experience or knowledge to get hired on as a software developer or as a pure EE anymore. I think I’ve developed a good set of skills in playing that “integration” role, but I’m worried to another company they’re going to see a candidate who’s only skill is running meetings without much technical application. I rock at this at my current job and can get issues solved rapidly, but it very rarely involves me actually pushing the buttons to solve anything. Right now I’m just trying to find Senior Systems titles and some technical program manager titles, but I don’t feel like I’m qualified for them even with the Masters degree soon to be in hand. While I can say I’ve sat with a program through its lifecycle, I can’t say I’ve been the decision authority for it. I was hoping I could get a few years of actual program management experience here before moving, but I haven’t seen a raise now in 3 years and I’m making considerably less than engineers my age, in the same city. I feel like I’ve got 3 sort of paths: Is this just a matter of selling myself on the resume to make a jump? I’m fearful that I might put myself into a position where I can’t succeed in time, given a high visibility, intense new role and almost certainly a new industry. I have not been in charge of the budget of a project and most of my experience was working directly under the technical program manager who made the decisions. I’m not afraid to immediately become a decision maker, but I don’t feel I can put “owned a project that provided x cash” on my resume today. Do I need to just try to move laterally into a new company? I’m afraid if I do that I may be ‘wasting’ the Masters - I’ve heard that there is a sort of half life in one and if you don’t “use it” within a few years of getting it, it loses a certain effect. Maybe that’s bullshit. Even moving laterally is tough - having a totally green SE is tough. Also I haven’t googled much but I’ve been applying as though I have the degree in hand and I’m not sure if companies are going to ignore me until I have it in hand- my resume states it finishes in august but I’m definitely trying to angle for positions now even if the result is “call us when your degree is complete.” Should I look more for adjacent positions? I did a lot of work with the software integration team and in my current company would feel confident moving there, if I could. Those folks manage the schedule and content of the software without doing any actual coding. Therein lies the problem though - a lot of companies don’t seem to hire a dedicated person for that and want someone with coding experience. Unless they want pivot tables and macros, I don’t have it. I’ve considered jobs in sales support or more customer facing engineering, but I have no customer facing experience and I think that hurt me when interviewing a year or two ago for a job in this area. I’ve enjoyed working with troubleshooting and our support organization but most of the jobs for that (locally) are field service that would be a step down. It doesn’t help that depending on the company my role can be described as about one of six different titles which can also mean something else entirely. I’m worried I’ve niche’d myself too hard by being being too general of a ‘product integration’ guy. Anyone been through something similar? e: lol an hour after posting this my company suspended 401k match for 2021. Help me get out of here tomorrow. Anime Store Adventure fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Mar 31, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
I think you have a really good line for technical program management and that sounds like what you like to do. Not having the degree yet will be a hurdle but not a bad one. I've had a couple people I worked with/worked for me move to that and they didn't have full time program management experience. Maybe post a resume here or in the resume thread? Diving into that might give more useful advice.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 04:54
|
|
|
Lockback posted:I think you have a really good line for technical program management and that sounds like what you like to do. Not having the degree yet will be a hurdle but not a bad one. I've had a couple people I worked with/worked for me move to that and they didn't have full time program management experience. Maybe post a resume here or in the resume thread? Diving into that might give more useful advice. Thanks for the encouragement. I think there’s a level of confidence where I had always planned to have the formal/'titled' experience under my belt before I had to seek the title with a new company, so I’m feeling a lot of imposter-sorts of things applying for those jobs. It’s silly, but I always imagine somehow that a company is going to drop me into the position without support and let me fail. I don’t think (a good) company would actually do that, but I know that I’m not 100% ready with my skill set (lacking budget experience and not being an actual decision authority) even if I have the ambition right now and think I’m ready to make the jump with a supportive manager and team. I'm also very conscious that I'm a little spoiled in this regard, because my current company, despite its many issues, has always had a very good culture of this support. I know I need to be very aware of what I'm getting into with a new company, but I feel I need to be conscious of not letting this slip into sounding desperately insecure about stepping into bigger shoes. It is absolutely what I want to do, but my biggest holdback is that I feel I shortcut the steps a little bit and I worry how people view jumping right into systems without first working as a subsystem engineer. A lot of engineers really hate the “politics” or “constant meetings” aspect of it, but I have excelled at that. 6 years systems and a masters still feels light to me but it’s what I want to do. I've never had the fear a lot of my engineer friends have of things like presenting to VPs or other 'higher ups' and working with lots of teams with different priorities at once. Tooting my own horn, but I was always proud to tell my friends I was hosting meetings for management 1-2 levels above them successfully when they dreaded working with those managers because of some 'aura' of middle/upper management. Might be false confidence, but fake it until you make it, right? Regardless! I do need to do that with a resume. I started my job hunt two weeks ago, admittedly, poorly. I got frustrated with work and updated a pretty poor resume (much more geared toward an individual contributor, very much a laundry list of “things I’ve done” and still including a totally made up “self employed IT support” job to cover a gap year after college) and just shotgunnned it to about a dozen positions that were remotely close to my current role, assistant TPM/PM or TPM. I calmed down and now I know I need to probably build a new resume more or less from scratch and be more targeted and ‘aggressive’. (Hopefully a few of those positions don’t mind if I reapply? Oof, I wish I hadn’t gotten froggy.) I’ll start that tomorrow and probably share with the resume thread once I’m happy with it myself. Interested to hear more about the not having the degree part if you have any more words about it - right now I have all the coursework complete and I’m deep into the capstone/thesis project which seems like mostly a shoe-in right now. I don’t see any risk to not having the degree in hand and we only choose to finish in the summer to allow for some buffer in case we didn’t make the spring deadlines. I realize a prospective employer won’t be that generous in their read and I’m not technically finished, but I absolutely feel like at the very least I should be leveraging that even if I were to move into another individual contributor position. Is that wrong? e: Cleaning up idiot brained late night rambling. Anime Store Adventure fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Apr 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 06:48
|
|
|
Anime Store Adventure posted:Notably though, I really don’t have any hard technical skills anymore. My bachelors is in electrical engineering, but I don’t have the experience or knowledge to get hired on as a software developer or as a pure EE anymore. I think I’ve developed a good set of skills in playing that “integration” role, but I’m worried to another company they’re going to see a candidate who’s only skill is running meetings without much technical application. I rock at this at my current job and can get issues solved rapidly, but it very rarely involves me actually pushing the buttons to solve anything. I don't want to dissuade you from moving into a TPM role, but being a senior software engineer is often not a code-heavy position. I wound up in FAANG, but senior software interview loops often deprioritize personal coding ability and emphasize cross functional ability, project experience, and "soft skills".
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 08:20
|
|
|
You're fine for a tpm job. I think you're overestimating the authority and independence those jobs usually have and budgeting is just HS level math and spreadsheet wrangling 90% of the time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 13:27
|
|
|
Lockback posted:You have a good background for either a UX Designer or a more UX-focused front end developer, depending on your technical skills. The former is probably not too far off from what you're doing now but with more focus on layout, design, "pop", things of that nature than just "how to get this content in". The latter would need a good base of programming and depending on the company would dictate how much latitude you get to be creative. Thanks for the advice, that seems like a good path to consider as well! What I like the most is probably the problem solving and development aspect. I like it when I'm given the opportunity to design new interactions, themes, or even just one-off activities. Once during a period of downtime someone asked me to help the sales staff learn the phonetic alphabet, so despite never touching it before it I googled my way through Javascript enough to make a web-based game. It would pull words and letters randomly and ask the user to type what the letter should be in the phonetic alphabet, and grade each one with a final ranking at the end. I really enjoyed being able to find different creative approaches to the problem. So, opportunities to expand my own skillset through practical application are great. I enjoy writing and editing scripts too, but I haven't been able to do that since my last job. I'd also like to get back to being able to bounce ideas off of people - I'm the only one in my department where I am currently and it's all pretty stagnant. What I dislike might be more of a result of lacklustre jobs than the industry, I'm not sure. Too often I find that the job ends up just being copying and pasting content in, with no thought to (or compromise on) delivery. At previous jobs this has been because the client just wanted to check off legal requirements, so everything ended up being a few paragraphs on screen and then a multiple choice quiz where, even if you don't read the content, the answers are obvious. There are also certain limitations to the industry standard software that are just frustrating or downright impossible to get around. I hate working off of templates that are held together by duct tape and prayer because someone higher up would not accept the realities of good/cheap/fast - pick two. It also seems like there's a ceiling in the industry where past a certain point, you're not really going to be learning anything and the only way up is management. That might be common to a lot of industries though, and I imagine it's something that's easier to deal with if you actually like your job. Basically I find this kind of job can really quickly slide into daily drudgery where I would prefer to have the occasional challenge, I think.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 14:49
|
|
|
Anime Store Adventure posted:
I think you're over estimating what goes into a TPM role. Its an important job but its WAYYYYY more cat wrangling and "reminding people the thing that was agreed on" and "Per my last emails", and "Here is what your contract actually says mr. consultant" than it is architecture or frequent impactful decisions. What you say about liking to be in front of upper management showing off/defending your stuff is a great sign. I think you'd not qualified as a engineering Technical Lead but that is a fundamentally different job. That is someone who is mentoring, leading and advocating for a group of engineers, not a program. Teach Leads need to be pretty experienced in the trenches, being in the trenches isn't a good quality of a program manager. The two avenues I know for TPM is people managers who want to take a step away from the messiness that is being responsible for humans and basically your situation, semi-technical people who pinballed through technical-adjacent roles but never had a title that captured what they do. I don't think I even know anyone with a programa management degree. The hurdle will be whenever I see someone in school for something on a resume I get a little worried they are going to look for a big raise or springboard to a new role once they get their paper, which usually I can't do (getting the paper usually doesn't really change their skills or capabilities). I wouldn't say leave it off in the general case because for TPM usually the more "stuff" you show the better, and the masters is definitely stuff. So it's one of those two edge swords but I think it helps on balance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 14:51
|
|
|
Thanks for the tips. I think a lot of that overestimation just comes from my current job and just how long people are there before they move to TPM. Like I said, in the past few years there was definitely a trend toward not moving anyone into new positions, and as they cut down on programs, they had more people that had already held the title available for the programs left. I haven't see any TPM that hasn't been with the company at least 8-10 years longer than I have been.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 15:27
|
|
|
womb with a view posted:What I like the most is probably the problem solving and development aspect. I think you'd really like front-end development, especially if you could find a place that let the FE devs have some creative flow. The biggest hurdle for you would be gaining and sharpening those coding skills then. You'd be a prime candidate for a boot camp in Javascript or something. When I hire I really like people with some technical-adjacent life experience who are stepping into the developer role, that's usually a really successful profile. I'd probably suggest doing some on-your-own javascript at first to see how you like it, but then consider some (well regarded) bootcamps. Anime Store Adventure posted:Thanks for the tips. I think a lot of that overestimation just comes from my current job and just how long people are there before they move to TPM. Like I said, in the past few years there was definitely a trend toward not moving anyone into new positions, and as they cut down on programs, they had more people that had already held the title available for the programs left. I didn't see anyone doing the TPM role that wasn't at least 8-10 years longer with the company than I was. That's because people don't move up and around in companies that are slowly dying.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 15:27
|
|
|
Anime Store Adventure posted:Thanks for the tips. I think a lot of that overestimation just comes from my current job and just how long people are there before they move to TPM. Like I said, in the past few years there was definitely a trend toward not moving anyone into new positions, and as they cut down on programs, they had more people that had already held the title available for the programs left. I haven't see any TPM that hasn't been with the company at least 8-10 years longer than I have been. Agree with above, your sample set is limited. I would also not use "time in chair" as a personal metric for competence or promotion even if those around you might be. Even if you don't have crazy aspirations it's just a really limiting frame.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2021 17:21
|
|
|
Lockback posted:I think you'd really like front-end development, especially if you could find a place that let the FE devs have some creative flow. The biggest hurdle for you would be gaining and sharpening those coding skills then. You'd be a prime candidate for a boot camp in Javascript or something. When I hire I really like people with some technical-adjacent life experience who are stepping into the developer role, that's usually a really successful profile. I'd probably suggest doing some on-your-own javascript at first to see how you like it, but then consider some (well regarded) bootcamps. That's really great to hear, I think I'll do that. Thanks for the guidance!
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 11:58
|
|
|
Hello Goons, i'm not sure if this is the "right" thread or not but I have a question about invoiced and quotes. I am a freelancer but mostly work for one client as a contractor at $25/hr doing web dev. They ask me to put together quotes for them that they then charge to their clients at the quoted rate, which is all fine and good. The thing is though, I never hit my quoted amount of money and feel like i'm leaving something on the table. For example, I hand coded (i guess) a web "app" for one of their clients at a quoted price of like $9k, but going by the amount of times i've remembered to keep time, i've only earned about $5k. I don't neccesarily feel right billing for the remaining $4k as i'd have to break it down hourly, but i'm not sure what the right thing to do is. I mean i'm quoting the folks who contract me at a price that they're getting irregardless from the client, so i'm wondering if I should just bill for that full amount or what. Thanks for your help!
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 01:36
|
|
|
Empress Brosephine posted:Hello Goons, i'm not sure if this is the "right" thread or not but I have a question about invoiced and quotes. I am a freelancer but mostly work for one client as a contractor at $25/hr doing web dev. Do you have a contract for $9k? Will your client invoice their client for $9k while you're invoicing your client for $5k? If your client is invoicing for $9k, you're just giving away $4k for pretty much no gain. The issue with hourly rates is that there's no real upside if you're faster than you've originally estimated. Also if you're invoicing your client for $25, and your client is invoicing their client for $25, your client is losing money. Are you certain they're not adding anything on top of the $25/hr? There's nothing wrong with your client adding an extra surcharge, because the invoices need to go through their system. If your client is already used to you usually under-billing your quoted amount, it might explain why they're happy just charging their client the exact same rate you're charging. DanTheFryingPan fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Apr 4, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 03:04
|
|
|
Nah, they're charging above what i'm charging, but they're offering additional services (marketing copywriting, graphic design etc) so lets say I put a quote in for 8k they'll ask for 13k. I don't have a contract, they just ask me for a quote and say "okay sounds good". I want to charge the remainder of the money but i'm afraid if they ask for a time sheet then I have to quickly make it all up lol.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 03:19
|
|
|
Empress Brosephine posted:Nah, they're charging above what i'm charging, but they're offering additional services (marketing copywriting, graphic design etc) so lets say I put a quote in for 8k they'll ask for 13k. Just do that, then? You're leaving money on the table. If your client's client says that $9k is fine, just invoice for that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 12:27
|
|
|
Also your rates are ridic-u-loving-ulously low. You should probably at least triple them. 9k for a webapp just low, of someone charged me $5k I'd assume it was stolen. Just charge them what you quoted. They won't question you because they are making huge profit off your stupid low rates. Then reassess your worth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 13:46
|
|
|
Yeah I know I'm making very low amounts, to the point where I've had other clients pay me triple what I quoted them to be nice. My goal is still to get a real development job at some point but I don't think my skills are there yet and I live in a rural area. Freelance it is for.now
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 13:56
|
|
|
You already have a real development job though if you're developing apps and selling them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 14:10
|
|
|
That's true lol. I guess something non freelance with benefits etc. Although it's nice making my own schedule and traveling whenever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 00:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 6, 2024 18:05 |
|
|
Yeah my point was (and I should have included) that it's no reason to shortchange yourself. If you're getting 3x extra for your work you need to charge more because you are severely undervaluing your work.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2021 02:15
|
|