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marshmallow creep posted:Ha, I was just talking to my wife earlier today about the 40 Days and 40 nights, where a man is raped in his sleep and his girlfriend gets mad at him about it. you got it all wrong. he's fully awake asking her to stop and has to apologize to his girlfriend. way worse!
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Apr 4, 2021 17:41
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Blue Moonlight posted:It was acceptable “for the time,”
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Apr 4, 2021 17:42
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Blue Moonlight posted:We did the play version of M*A*S*H in high school in 2003, I think. It was acceptable “for the time,” but I sincerely hope nobody would try pulling it off now. Same, but it was somewhere between 2006-8 when we did it. I went to a small High School (like 80 people in my class and about the same for the other grades) and we only had like five black kids so I don't even remember how we handled that one.
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Apr 4, 2021 18:39
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Fatty Crabcakes posted:Lol noooooo it wasn't You’re correct in that it shouldn’t have been. Should have put the quotes around “acceptable” as well. But that was pretty firmly in the days of justifying things like that with “well that’s historically accurate” or “we said it’s because of how good he was at football”. Or in the case of my high school, “well, he’s not being played by a black person”.  For what little progress we’ve made over the last 20 years, at least we’ve generally recognized that it isn’t OK. Of course, those aren’t the only land mines for M*A*S*H - we also have casual misogyny for “Hot Lips Houlihan”, suggested sexual coercion with “Trapper John,” and “Augustus Bedford ‘Duke’ Forrest,” an allusion to the founder of the goddamn KKK.
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Apr 4, 2021 20:26
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intense reposting-on-same-page energy
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Apr 4, 2021 20:33
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Blue Moonlight posted:You’re correct in that it shouldn’t have been. Should have put the quotes around “acceptable” as well.
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Apr 4, 2021 20:41
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Goodyear posted:you got it all wrong. Even as a 13 year-old seeing that in the theater I remember thinking "this... doesn't seem right"
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Apr 4, 2021 21:52
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marshmallow creep posted:Ha, I was just talking to my wife earlier today about the 40 Days and 40 nights, where a man is raped in his sleep and his girlfriend gets mad at him about it. Goodyear posted:you got it all wrong. mind the walrus posted:Even as a 13 year-old seeing that in the theater I remember thinking "this... doesn't seem right" Same. The guy was handcuffed to the bed frame and struggling to get free, kinda sus.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:16
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The writer did an AMA on Reddit a few years backquote:um, this is awkward. i wrote that so i take full responsibility. i didnt shoot it so thats the director but its pretty much what was on the page. -the scene was in no way a statement about women abusing men (isnt that category called kathy bates?), its a natural, if dark, end of act two for a sex comedy. - we had a lot of very intelligent people, writers, producers, directors, studio folk, etc. - think of different solutions to the problem and this was what we all determined was the best. im sorry if you didnt like it. https://www.reddit.com/r/Filmmakers/comments/3psi5q/i_am_rob_perez_i_wrote_40_days_40_nights_among/
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Apr 5, 2021 00:24
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Blue Moonlight posted:You’re correct in that it shouldn’t have been. Should have put the quotes around “acceptable” as well. I have not seen the show, did not know the name in question, and googled up a list of M*A*S*H characters; and wow, encountering it for the first time in 2021 is pretty --  I mean, it's bad for any time period, but... goodness.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:24
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I remember an old Law and Order about that. There was a dude who was a stripper for parties, got raped by a woman at a job, and half the episode was the detectives going "Bullshit, dudes can't be raped by women because all guys are 100% down for sex from ladies at all times. Guy is obviously just looking for a payday from a lawsuit."
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Apr 5, 2021 00:27
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the_steve posted:I remember an old Law and Order about that. There was a dude who was a stripper for parties, got raped by a woman at a job, and half the episode was the detectives going "Bullshit, dudes can't be raped by women because all guys are 100% down for sex from ladies at all times. Guy is obviously just looking for a payday from a lawsuit." If I'm remembering right he was raped by a group of women and one of them ended up playing the redhead ADA later on.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:45
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the_steve posted:I remember an old Law and Order about that. There was a dude who was a stripper for parties, got raped by a woman at a job, and half the episode was the detectives going "Bullshit, dudes can't be raped by women because all guys are 100% down for sex from ladies at all times. Guy is obviously just looking for a payday from a lawsuit." There's a male rape scene (off screen) in Ed Wood's The Violent Years and when it appeared on MST3K, Mike & the Bots are way too happy about it.
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Apr 5, 2021 01:02
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The first couple seasons of M*A*S*H where it is closer to the book and movie are really, really unpleasant to watch now. That's when the sexism and racism was mostly just played straight. Episodes end with "haha, this officer almost sexually assaulted Margaret in our scheme to make him look bad! Now she's mad! Women amirite?" Season 3 starts to shift it more positively and by time Frank gets replaced by Charles its pretty solid throughout. Anyone who tells you seasons 1-3 are the good ones and the rest are trash is either repeating a meme or telling on themselves about how they view the world.
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Apr 5, 2021 01:06
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There are things about the tone of the movie that I like, but it’s incredibly misogynistic and I really don’t like that. I think the fatalism of the characters in the movie more accurately communicates the absurdity of being in a war vs the aggressive humanism and moralizing of the tv show, but the show characters are better and I enjoy aggressive moralizing more than fatalism.
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Apr 5, 2021 01:09
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Shiroc posted:The first couple seasons of M*A*S*H where it is closer to the book and movie are really, really unpleasant to watch now. That's when the sexism and racism was mostly just played straight. Episodes end with "haha, this officer almost sexually assaulted Margaret in our scheme to make him look bad! Now she's mad! Women amirite?" In a late episode, Charles has a run-in with the colonel who sent him to the MASH unit. The colonel promises him a return to Tokyo if he can get him some action. Through a misunderstanding, the colonel believes he has sent Margaret to his tent. The colonel tries to assualt her and later blames her, but Charles stands up to him.
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Apr 5, 2021 01:13
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Shiroc posted:
THANK you I have had more than one argument about this. The show does get kind of preachy late on but I'd take a lot of 'heart in the right place, overdoes it a bit' over 'wildly misogynistic'.
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Apr 5, 2021 01:29
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christmas boots posted:The writer did an AMA on Reddit a few years back quote:dear asspants, youre entitled to not like the scene. youre entitled to the opinion "i did a bad thing" in writing it. youre entitled to call into question my intelligence. i call it into question all the time. but if you think a romantic/sex comedy "perpetuates" ignorance, then youre looking for answers in the wrong place. --side observation: its hard to take observations on rape seriously from someone called asspants. quote:um, did i miss the very real and serious epidemic of women raping men? quote:im guessing a lot of people "don't know" about the problems in your world. --you brought up a scene you didnt like. i shared with you why and how that scene is in the picture. you said that scene makes you question my intelligence and perpetuates ignorance. i tried to nicely ask you if there is a problem i am unaware of where women are raping men. you then asked me to stop writing movies. --it seems like we're having two different conversations. so, um, why dont we just say you "won" your conversation and i "tied" mine.
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Apr 5, 2021 02:28
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Yeah that's 100% what I'd expect from the dipshit who wrote that scene
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Apr 5, 2021 02:42
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The second I saw no capitalization I knew those were gonna be some bad posts.
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Apr 5, 2021 02:44
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I have always been of the opinion that seasons 4-7 of M*A*S*H are the series operating at its peak, with some great episodes in the seasons prior and (slightly less so) afterwards. It gets harder to recommend once Radar leaves the show, but the finale is probably the best series finale in television history.
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Apr 5, 2021 02:59
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I didn't like Radar as much when he got towards the end of his run. The character was spent and hung around too long. I much preferred Klinger once they stopped having him be an extremely poorly aged cross dressing joke.
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Apr 5, 2021 03:07
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Chieves posted:I have always been of the opinion that seasons 4-7 of M*A*S*H are the series operating at its peak, with some great episodes in the seasons prior and (slightly less so) afterwards. It gets harder to recommend once Radar leaves the show, but the finale is probably the best series finale in television history. Strong agree. After season 7 they started to run out of steam. Still worth watching for the most part with some great individual episodes but starting to wear thin. I love Father Mulcahy. William Christopher wasn't the world's greatest actor but he was completely charming in that part.
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Apr 5, 2021 03:19
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Groovelord Neato posted:The second I saw no capitalization I knew those were gonna be some bad posts. no capitalization is the sure sign of a lovely poster
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Apr 5, 2021 04:07
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oldpainless posted:no capitalization is the sure sign of a lovely poster
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Apr 5, 2021 05:07
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Mister Kingdom posted:In a late episode, Charles has a run-in with the colonel who sent him to the MASH unit. The colonel promises him a return to Tokyo if he can get him some action. Through a misunderstanding, the colonel believes he has sent Margaret to his tent. The colonel tries to assualt her and later blames her, but Charles stands up to him. Charles WInchester the Third was a great MASH character. Stuck up and snobbish enough to be a baddie in the snobs vs slobs way, but deep down he was a good human and a talented surgeon that everyone respected. I also like how the guy that played Frank before him was so good at finding the thin line between pitiful and detestable.
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Apr 5, 2021 05:21
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the_steve posted:I remember an old Law and Order about that. There was a dude who was a stripper for parties, got raped by a woman at a job, and half the episode was the detectives going "Bullshit, dudes can't be raped by women because all guys are 100% down for sex from ladies at all times. Guy is obviously just looking for a payday from a lawsuit." L&O has pretty much always had a variety of opinions on the issue of the week from the characters - a member of the main cast is frequently shown to be incorrect as part of learning about the issue. I don't remember the episode in question, but something like "yeah, you hosed up Briscoe/Stabler, guys really do get raped" is pretty standard L&O storytelling.
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Apr 5, 2021 05:34
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IIRC yeah the episode ended with the women not getting convicted (or even past a grand jury) precisely because of this belief but it was portrayed as a wrong and bad thing because they clearly were guilty.
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Apr 5, 2021 05:36
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Maxwell Lord posted:IIRC yeah the episode ended with the women not getting convicted (or even past a grand jury) precisely because of this belief but it was portrayed as a wrong and bad thing because they clearly were guilty. Yeah, L&O frequently hasn't aged well (I watched an episode from 2009 about the loving gay gene recently), but having the characters specifically hold retrograde viewpoints in order to challenge those viewpoints is something the franchise did very, very commonly. So it's hard to be like "the detective from 1995 said gays aren't people!" when the episode ends with that same detective getting fired after they punch the homophobic murderer for getting out of jail time with a gay panic defense.
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Apr 5, 2021 05:41
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MariusLecter posted:Same. The guy was handcuffed to the bed frame and struggling to get free, kinda sus. The imdb content warning for this film was written by someone extremely horny for Josh Hartnett quote:For the extensive amount of female nudity onscreen for such an extensive amount of time, there should be some juicy, sexy scenes of male nudity, but unfortunately there is none. Once again, male viewers are entertained while female viewers are left completely disappointed. quote:Opening scenes include a man having intercourse with several different women - brief back and frontal female nudity is shown. Orgasm is implied and a used condom is visible at the end of one scene. Although the man is also nude during the act, he bares no nudity. Unrealistic. quote:Male erection is shown on several occassions (whilst male is, quite unfairly, fully clothed). Masturbation is suggested although not shown. quote:Near the end of the film, Nicole rapes Matt while he is handcuffed to the bed sleeping. While this happens Matt has a dream sequence which is as follows. A scene of millions of breasts are shown as the man is "flying" across them all. Sexual intercourse is portrayed in a symbolic way and orgasm is implied by a man opening a washing machine and being sprayed with so much water he falls over. No male nudity is offered however.
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Apr 5, 2021 08:33
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The imdb content advisory section is possibly the funniest part of the site.
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Apr 5, 2021 09:17
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Shiroc posted:I much preferred Klinger once they stopped having him be an extremely poorly aged cross dressing joke. And the only reason that happened was because Jamie Farr's children were being bullied at school by kids who saw their dad wearing a dress on TV.
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Apr 5, 2021 12:29
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AceOfFlames posted:And the only reason that happened was because Jamie Farr's children were being bullied at school by kids who saw their dad wearing a dress on TV. One thing I did like about Klinger's cross-dressing was how completely accepting everyone else was of it. It kind of accidentally wraps around to almost being progressive again. Not quite, but almost.
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Apr 5, 2021 13:49
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But then there was the episode where Klinger almost got his wish and the psychiatrist character was going to sign his section 8. He just had to say he was gay and he'd be out and could go home. MASH really was a show of its time. But even watching as it was airing when I was a kid, any number of episodes sat really badly with me. The super bleeding heart main cast didn't think twice about sexually assaulting the nurses and working drunk - I can only imagine the number of soldiers who would have died if it were real. And any time an actual Korean was on screen, they were there to be moralised about rather than treated as a person. It really got bad in the later seasons, though it may just be my memory compressing things together. The sneering moralising seemed to take over everything else and it became the "Alan Alda Tells You Why This is Bad And You're Wrong" show.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:07
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I think there was a lot LESS of non-consensual nurse-touching and overt drunkenness as the show went on. can't disagree about the moralising but that's what I mean - I don't think it was *sneering*. I think it was overly earnest and a bit preachy the way Quantum Leap could sometimes be overly earnest. I'm not gonna defend it as politically correct or anything though, it super wasn't, but there was clearly pull from the majority of the cast whose hearts were in the right place.
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Apr 5, 2021 15:49
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I'm not fully up on my M*A"S*H timeline but it definitely turned from 'kinda preachy' to 'Alan Alda at the pulpit for 30 minutes' near the end.
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Apr 5, 2021 15:51
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I think MASH was great for most of its run, though it did start to lose steam by season 10 and onward. One of the best parts of the show was the fact that the characters were given room to grow and mature instead of staying one note. That's why Hawkeye is so preachy in later seasons: it's a feature and not a bug. We weren't supposed to identify with Hawkeye as much later on. A good example is the episode where he stops drinking and becomes a pain in the rear end for everyone else. It's probably been discussed before, but what happens to Annette at the end of Saturday Night Fever aged like the guy who drank from the wrong chalice. It was bad in 1977 but it's especially stomach churning today. F_Shit_Fitzgerald has a new favorite as of 16:02 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 15:53
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I've never been able to enjoy MASH. No you will not convince me that I have to watch certain episodes or seasons, every time I've seen MASH I wished I was watching literally anything else. Sorry MASHailures.
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Apr 5, 2021 15:59
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I think MASH was great for most of its run, though it did start to lose steam by season 10 and onward. One of the best parts of the show was the fact that the characters were given room to grow and mature instead of staying one note. That's why Hawkeye is so preachy in later seasons: it's a feature and not a bug. We weren't supposed to identify with Hawkeye as much later on. A good example is the episode where he stops drinking and becomes a pain in the rear end for everyone else. We’re not really meant to see it as a good or innocuous thing though. Like the not-so-hidden subtext of that movie is that the culture is toxic, and that the protagonist, for all his attitude, doesn’t belong there.
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Apr 5, 2021 16:27
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Iron Crowned posted:I've never been able to enjoy MASH. No you will not convince me that I have to watch certain episodes or seasons, every time I've seen MASH I wished I was watching literally anything else. Have you had people be really intense about making you like it or something? How weird. I love it but not everything is for everyone.
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Apr 5, 2021 16:32
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