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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Not stupid, though. He knew if he'd seen it there were decent odds the Andalites had too. And to be fair, the morphing cube on the loose does seem like a justifiable situation for the brute force option. This is not something you'd want to leave to chance.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 12:59 |
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# ? Apr 27, 2024 16:06 |
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Plus, from the Yeerk's perspective, it really looks like a trap by the Andalite guerrillas, so better to show up in force.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 18:19 |
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Animorphs-Book 20-The Discovery, Chapter 15quote:David’s room started out with the usual four walls. Does he really think they think he'll let them live if he gets it? I mean, come on, man. One of the disadvantages of never showing mercy is that the threat "Do X or you will die" doesn't have much of an effect. Chapter 16 quote:Fact One: There was no way we could let Visser Three have that box. Poor David's father. If it helps, given that Marco had just bitten that Hork Bajir, I don't think he had enough poison in him to affect Visser Three.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 04:03 |
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I love how insanely that mission escalates. A quick, covert break-and-enter to unplug a computer erupts into a huge battle and the wholesale destruction of the house.quote:<This time you won’t escape, Visser,> Ax said bravely. A nice nod back to Ax's crisis of conscience after his duel with the Visser in 18; a little reminder that regardless of who's narrating any particular book, everyone else has their own thought processes going on. I wonder what the Visser's wearing as his human morph clothing? Can't see him as a bike shorts kind of guy.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 04:52 |
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freebooter posted:I wonder what the Visser's wearing as his human morph clothing? Can't see him as a bike shorts kind of guy. Neither Yeerks, Hork-Bajir, nor Andalites fully understand this human concept of "clothing", so maybe you're making unwarranted assumptions here.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 05:04 |
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Epicurius posted:Neither Yeerks, Hork-Bajir, nor Andalites fully understand this human concept of "clothing", so maybe you're making unwarranted assumptions here. i was gonna say, the idea of Visser 3 strolling out in the nud, thinking he's being real inconspicuous, is the best/funniest option
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 05:12 |
Oh my god they grab the wrong snake That poor thing is gonna be the toughest nut to crack V3 has ever had
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 05:16 |
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Imagine being the yeerk inside David's father's head, trying to explain to an insurance agent what happened to your house without giving away any alien secrets.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 05:55 |
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Bobulus posted:Imagine being the yeerk inside David's father's head, trying to explain to an insurance agent what happened to your house without giving away any alien secrets. Against all odds, the Yeerks seem to at least be marginally OK at coverups. That's assuming that the agent isn't also Yeerked. could be useful to have someone at the insurance agency to write in a "galactic damage" clause.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 06:06 |
QuickbreathFinisher posted:Against all odds, the Yeerks seem to at least be marginally OK at coverups. That's assuming that the agent isn't also Yeerked. could be useful to have someone at the insurance agency to write in a "galactic damage" clause. Covering things up is a lot easier when the witnesses say exactly what you want.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 06:11 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Covering things up is a lot easier when the witnesses say exactly what you want. Plus the Yeerks seem to have people in law enforcement and the media.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 06:39 |
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Do we know if thought speech translate languages? Do any animals ever react to thought speech? Will spawn get anything out of visser threes interrogation?
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 07:38 |
GodFish posted:Do we know if thought speech translate languages? Do any animals ever react to thought speech? Will spawn get anything out of visser threes interrogation? I think a more relevant question is whether snakes can feel pain.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 07:44 |
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I appreciate the "X-Com multiple pod activation" feel of this chapter. Just a complete clusterfuck.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 08:09 |
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Grammarchist posted:I appreciate the "X-Com multiple pod activation" feel of this chapter. Just a complete clusterfuck. I always love "everyday environment is subjected to absolute carnage" scenes, like X-Com missions in a residential neighborhood, cs_office, or the Burgertown mission from COD.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 11:16 |
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freebooter posted:I love how insanely that mission escalates. A quick, covert break-and-enter to unplug a computer erupts into a huge battle and the wholesale destruction of the house. Yeah. It makes sense, like people mentioned, the Visser would have to roll in and get that immediately. Plus David's dad captured and hand damage. It definitely feels like the writers stopped pulling punches where maybe they had sometimes before. Grammarchist posted:I appreciate the "X-Com multiple pod activation" feel of this chapter. Just a complete clusterfuck. Yup. I was going to say, it feels like a tabletop combat or something that goes completely off the rails, like a game of Fiasco.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 11:53 |
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quote:The fight had been rowdy. Now it was going nuclear. I don't know why, but this is one of the lines from Animorphs that stuck with me from reading them as a kid. e X posted:I always love "everyday environment is subjected to absolute carnage" scenes, like X-Com missions in a residential neighborhood, cs_office, or the Burgertown mission from COD. This is the number one reason I never got into X-COM 2, the sci-fi battles happening in every day environments is a huge part of the game's appeal for me.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 12:26 |
<You are strong, Andalite. Hours of torture and not a single word. But I am patient. You will break, eventually, and then you will tell me all I wish to know.> *Visser Three kicks snake around the room some more*
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 13:04 |
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Animorphs-Book 20-The Discovery, Chapter 17quote:Police rushed to the scene. We heard their sirens as we were escaping and demorphing. But by the time they got there, my friends were gone. So were the Yeerks. So, there we go. The Animorphs...and Ax.....and David. It is interesting, Marco's observation, and also true, that even though they don't really like each other that much, Marco and Rachel usually have similar points of view. If anything, I think they agree more with each other than any other two Animorphs. I'm not sure who comes next in that paring. Chapter 18 quote:“They are called Yeerks,” Jake said. That was incredibly brutal and cruel, but also probably necessary. quote:Silence in the barn. Even the animals seemed quiet. Well, that whole presentation was kind of a kick in the teeth.
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# ? Apr 17, 2021 04:03 |
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Epicurius posted:
Marco is (unusually) wrong here, I think. Yeah, David didn't see any of the kids morph. But Marco saw David with the blue box and immediately ran up to him and tried to buy it off him. David later talked to Marco about the bird home invasion and about the email going out. After the email went out and the Yeerks showed up, the Animorphs were in David's house already. There's basically zero chance the Yeerks don't snatch Marco and make him a Controller; either he's one of the Andalite bandits or he's close enough to them to be suspiciously interested in the box. One way or the other, they can't risk allowing David to be infested. Epicurius posted:It is interesting, Marco's observation, and also true, that even though they don't really like each other that much, Marco and Rachel usually have similar points of view. If anything, I think they agree more with each other than any other two Animorphs. I'm not sure who comes next in that paring. Yeah, this is something KAA does really well: the way people think tends to be at least as predictive of who they agree with than who they most get along with. There's Marco/Rachel as the smart ones vs. Jake/Cassie as the caring ones and Tobias/Ax as the outsiders. But there's also Marco/Rachel as the ruthless ones vs. Jake/Ax as the lawful ones and Cassie/Tobias as the moralizers. Or Marco/Rachel/Ax as the logical side and Jake/Tobias/Cassie as the emotional. Or Marco/Ax/Tobias as the deliberate planners and Jake/Rachel/Cassie as the (more) spontaneous ones. The books are generally really good (though worse once we're in the ghostwriters) about putting each book's conflict on a different axis and drawing different lines as a result. To respond to your musing, I think the next-most-common agreement is probably Jake/Marco, but that's not interesting. After that, though, might be Cassie/Tobias, and that fits more into the "they're not close but their POVs are."
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# ? Apr 17, 2021 04:29 |
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Interesting that Ax was the one to first suggest bringing David into the group/giving him morph powers, but later voted against it. I guess since his first inclination was that he'd follow
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# ? Apr 17, 2021 07:26 |
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Ax is definitely right though. I completely missed this section of the books so I don't know what happens here but adding one member is a massive risk for completely marginal gains. If they were recruiting a bunch of people at once it'd be a different story. They probably should have just not told him about Tobias at first so he could safely watch him for a few days.
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# ? Apr 17, 2021 07:32 |
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disaster pastor posted:Or Marco/Rachel/Ax as the logical side and Jake/Tobias/Cassie as the emotional. Mazerunner posted:Interesting that Ax was the one to first suggest bringing David into the group/giving him morph powers, but later voted against it. I distinctly remember Ax's input here, and find it really interesting that he makes a very clear and concise argument against the recruitment of David specifically. He's my favourite character but is often, aside from in his own POV books, presented as the one-dimensional alien dude who's just a funny fish out of water. This is one of the cases where he isn't. (Although I think it also sticks in my memory because it's where I learned as a kid what a "guerilla" is.) What I didn't remember, and is very funny, is that that they have this conversation standing above a semi-conscious David in an alleyway. If it had gone the other way I can imagine the fresh Yeerk in his head poring over those groggy, vague memories and trying to identify the human voices. Also, this makes no sense, because there's no reason they can't do any of this right now... quote:I could feel a rush of excitement at the idea. I mean, Rachel was right, too. We had to be so careful now. We couldn’t afford to take some risks. With more Animorphs, we could try to let the whole world know what was happening. We could infiltrate the Letterman show and morph onstage and make people realize what we were saying was true. Or go to the President and show him our powers and then he’d have to listen to us. ...unless it's actually Marco's subconscious way of saying they could prod David (or some other rando) out onto the world stage and if he gets killed, nothing lost. Cold, dude.
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# ? Apr 17, 2021 11:32 |
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Another interesting way to view the Cassie/Marco split is strategic thinking vs. tactical thinking. Cassie immediately realizes the box has the ability to end the war - it would let them recruit vastly more humans to their side and go from a guerrilla force to an army. Marco immediately realizes the tactical situation they have right before them - use the box on David or essentially abandon him to slavery.
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# ? Apr 17, 2021 13:28 |
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We've already seen that humans and Andalites use the power to morph differently in combat situations. They have different tech and different ways of thinking. Plus humans don't have the Time Sense that Andalites have. In an all-out war, I don't think things would be a clean for humans as Andalites. Way more nohlits, way more morph-capable humans captured, etc.
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# ? Apr 17, 2021 15:31 |
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Morphing is great for saboteurs and assassins but not so much for open warfare I feel.
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# ? Apr 17, 2021 18:49 |
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Morphing makes sense for combat when you are kids with no access to weapons and fighting a guerilla war where they need to hide their identities but an actual military force would be more effective as just humans with guns and tanks.
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# ? Apr 17, 2021 19:47 |
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Crespolini posted:Morphing is great for saboteurs and assassins but not so much for open warfare I feel. Which is why the Andalites use morphing for espionage and scouting. For actual combat, they have guns and bombs.
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# ? Apr 17, 2021 20:59 |
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Epicurius posted:Which is why the Andalites use morphing for espionage and scouting. For actual combat, they have guns and bombs. And of course their tails and genocide viruses
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# ? Apr 17, 2021 23:45 |
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the regenerative capabilities of morphing on it's own is a huge boon, let alone everything else
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# ? Apr 18, 2021 00:48 |
Mazerunner posted:the regenerative capabilities of morphing on it's own is a huge boon, let alone everything else yeah, it's certainly a force multiplier for any military force. i think the calculus of the war remains unchanged no matter how many humans are given the morphing ability on the down-low though - exposure leads to open war and eventual yeerk victory without an andalite fleet in the region to intercept reinforcements, and even if you generously guess that a year has passed since elfangor's death at this point, the andalites are still a year out if they're even coming at all. marco isn't really thinking straight here, he (unusually for him) is so off-balance that he hasn't considered all of the angles yet. CUBE is important but it's not war-changing for the kids to have it; the yeerks, on the other hand...
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# ? Apr 18, 2021 01:09 |
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Jazerus posted:yeah, it's certainly a force multiplier for any military force. i think the calculus of the war remains unchanged no matter how many humans are given the morphing ability on the down-low though - exposure leads to open war and eventual yeerk victory without an andalite fleet in the region to intercept reinforcements, and even if you generously guess that a year has passed since elfangor's death at this point, the andalites are still a year out if they're even coming at all. The ultimate Yeerk problem right now is manpower----err, Yeerkpower. They have a massive technological advantage...spaceships that can cloak, and Dracon beams, both hand held and ship based,, but like Marco points out, in terms of Controllers, they have millions of Hork-Bajir, millions of Taxxons, and thousands of humans. In 1998, after massive cuts, the size of the US army alone was 1,406,830. The Chinese army was about 4 million., Russia 1.7 million, etc., all without widespread mobilization or conscription. And the Yeerks can't commit all their forces to Earth. They're fighting on multiple fronts. Without the need for secrecy, the Yeerks can expand their forces quicker than people can. Take over an area, force a slug into everybody's ear. But then they run into a logistical problem, which is that, can they get enough Kandrona generators on earth to feed their forces? I don't know if they can, if it comes down to it, not fast enough to meet their needs. I agree with you that Earth will probably still lose, in the end, but it's not a sure thing for the Yeerks, and a victory like that would be extremely costly for them.
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# ? Apr 18, 2021 04:22 |
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Animorphs-Book 20-The Discovery, Chapter 19quote:David spent the night at my house. I told my dad it was a sleepover. I gave him my bed and I used my sleeping bag and an air mattress. An air mattress that had lost all its air by two A.M. Just for the record, it is a sleepover. It's the very definition of a sleepover. Those first two sentences are a little bit like, "I was eating a grilled ground beef patty on a bun. I told my dad it was a hamburger." quote:Which was a good thing, because I woke up when David was sneaking from the room. I found him starting to make a phone call from the hall phone. Honestly, can you imagine the psychological effect of all this on David here? He just moved to this town, and today, he saw his house destroyed, his parents taken away, was saved by a bunch of teenagers who explained that they were the only people defending earth from an alien invasion, was lied to by his parents, and then heard his dad talk about capturing him. Also, what number did David call? His house was just blown up. I guess people did have cell phones in the late 90s, and if his father worked for the NSA, he'd probably have one, but would David have memorized the number, or would it be more of a "work phone"? Chapter 20 quote:We moved David from my house to Jake’s house. We didn’t have any idea what to do with him long-term. He couldn’t go home. He couldn’t go anywhere. He was a hunted person. And we could not allow him to be caught. Not with what he knew. I just want to point this out. Jake's brother Tom is controlled by a Yeerk. Said Yeerk is a top lieutenant of Visser Three, who is second in command of a cult to attract troubled teenagers for Yeerkification. As such, don't you think that the Yeerk will know that Visser Three is hunting a specific teenager in particular and know the details? So why are you hiding David in the house where that Yeerk lives? quote:The day after he witnessed his father as a Controller, we assembled in the woods. Cassie’s dad was working in the barn. Even though it was still chilly out and the sky was filled with clouds, we were tramping along, clutching our sweatshirts and jackets closed with one hand. I know I shoouldn't mention this because it violates the Animorph's most sacred rule, but there's nothing stopping David from acquiring two morphs in one book. He could morph both the eagle and the merlin. quote:“Here’s an idea,” I said. “How about not being such a jerk? We saved you from the Yeerks. We’ve been doing this for a while, all right? We know what we’re talking about. And Jake is the leader of this little group, so how about if you show some respect?” I just want to say I like it when Tobias goes on rants about birds.
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# ? Apr 18, 2021 04:52 |
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Watching Marco's house, keeping an eye on David, totally prepared to take out the yeerk force, which they do swiftly and without fuss- probably the group's most competent moment yet. Although, I do wonder how feasible it would have been to capture David's father? I guess not very, since they were in the middle of the city. Maybe if they had a car.
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# ? Apr 18, 2021 05:50 |
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Mazerunner posted:Watching Marco's house, keeping an eye on David, totally prepared to take out the yeerk force, which they do swiftly and without fuss- probably the group's most competent moment yet. Mmm, I think they pulled off de-infesting Jake with fewer people/resources available. Epicurius posted:I just want to point this out. Jake's brother Tom is controlled by a Yeerk. Said Yeerk is a top lieutenant of Visser Three, who is second in command of a cult to attract troubled teenagers for Yeerkification. As such, don't you think that the Yeerk will know that Visser Three is hunting a specific teenager in particular and know the details? So why are you hiding David in the house where that Yeerk lives? Lol this never occurred to me before but absolutely a big mistake on KA's part. And it seems super crazy and risky to just let him call from around the corner. I like the idea of Marco's dad leafing through the paper the next day at breakfast. "Huh - apparently there was a rhinoceros attack down the street last night. How bout that."
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# ? Apr 18, 2021 06:16 |
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freebooter posted:And it seems super crazy and risky to just let him call from around the corner. I like the idea of Marco's dad leafing through the paper the next day at breakfast. "Huh - apparently there was a rhinoceros attack down the street last night. How bout that." "First leopards, then rhinos. We really need to move to a safer neighborhood."
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# ? Apr 18, 2021 06:25 |
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Epicurius posted:
I get that Marco's not actually trying to kill him, and thinks he can precisely control the gorilla's level of force and just ragdoll the dad around a little bit. But that's still a very good way to accidentally kill someone.
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# ? Apr 18, 2021 06:41 |
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If there's one thing that kids/YA/genre/adventure fiction really never made clear to me, it's that getting knocked on the head can easily kill you, and that if you're unconscious for more than a few minutes you've probably suffered a serious and permanent brain injury.
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# ? Apr 18, 2021 06:51 |
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freebooter posted:If there's one thing that kids/YA/genre/adventure fiction really never made clear to me, it's that getting knocked on the head can easily kill you, and that if you're unconscious for more than a few minutes you've probably suffered a serious and permanent brain injury. Unfortunately, it's a really common fiction trope that getting hit on the head by pretty much anything means instant unconsciousness, and the person just wakes up after, groggy, but never with a serious injury. I wonder where the idea came from.
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# ? Apr 18, 2021 07:01 |
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# ? Apr 27, 2024 16:06 |
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It's a easy mistake to make if you're not familiar with head injuries, and it's so convenient as a plot device that I'm sure writers who know better use it as well. Like just a few chapters ago, when David got knocked out, giving the Animorphs a chance to take him somewhere discreet and have a discussion on what to do with him. It's interesting that both this book and the previous one involved taking huge risks that could easily go bad. In #19, everything turned out okay, even when it didn't really make logical sense, but it was very satisfying emotionally. But that was a Cassie book, and this is a Marco book. The Animorphs aren't handling this very well, but they are in their early. And I don't know what else they could be doing to keep David safe, now that he's seen too much and the Yeerks know it. quote:“Wait! Shouldn’t there be some kind of ceremony or something?” Cassie said.
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# ? Apr 18, 2021 12:42 |