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goatsestretchgoals posted:This is an outstanding question that will be answered in the shittiest way possible. It will be handled exactly how governments handle bar/bartender liability in a drunk driving accident.
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Apr 19, 2021 01:40
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Mister Facetious posted:It will be handled exactly how governments handle bar/bartender liability in a drunk driving accident. There is a zero percent chance of a bar turning the wheels of your car in an unexpected direction as you are driving it.
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Apr 19, 2021 05:35
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Somfin posted:There is a zero percent chance of a bar turning the wheels of your car in an unexpected direction as you are driving it. That's my point. They're not going to be held liable. (It may differ in your state, but that's how it works here)
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Apr 19, 2021 05:52
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In BC, in Canada, the person serving the alcohol absolutely has some responsibility to ensure the people they're serving get home safely. The cases where this has actually been enforced are pretty extreme, though - eg restaurant owners physically carried a drunk and disruptive guy to his car, dumped him in the car and threw the keys in his lap. When he drove off and killed someone, the restaurant was held partly responsible.
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Apr 19, 2021 09:52
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:there's the idea that replacing human drivers with robots will increase safety, because robots will be better drivers. we have to consider the complicating factors of: tbh I'd probably pay money for a self driving car that's like 2x more likely to kill me compared to myself, purely because I don't want to be forced to pay attention to driving when I can read/sleep/masturbate instead
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Apr 19, 2021 10:32
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Silly Burrito posted:But yes, I consider reliable self-driving cars to be the epitome of technology that I hope to see before I die. I'm not getting teleportation, I'm not getting warp drive. Maybe 3D printer food replication, but not Star Trek style replication. So if I get a self-driving car that I can actually turn on and use, anything past that is just lagniappe. I think we should've re-aligned our collective scientific endeavors to figuring out how gravity works. Flying cars are going to be easier to automate with the addition of an extra dimension and we'll probably have the means to safely and more cheaply travel our solar system at the same time.
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Apr 19, 2021 11:07
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Look at those dummies over at NASA, burning shitloads of fuel to escape the earth's gravity well. Why don't they just invent an anti-gravity device?? Kirk has that on the Enterprise.
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Apr 19, 2021 11:35
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Just all The Road Not Taken up in here.
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Apr 19, 2021 11:47
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im imagining someone took the graph "years to fission power" under different funding regimes, and took a crayon to scratch out "fission power" and replace with "antigravity"
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Apr 19, 2021 11:59
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For a true self driving car the manufacturer will be liable for injuries to passengers or third parties. For Teslas both are probably liable but Tesla will try to shift liability to the driver but for third parties they would be very dumb to let a case go to trial. They’d probably be dumb to let a driver case go to a trial as well.
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Apr 19, 2021 13:14
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I don't know how you throw around the phrase "full self-driving" and avoid liability, honestly. All the nag screens in the world aren't gonna drown that out.
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Apr 19, 2021 13:57
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Delta-Wye posted:im imagining someone took the graph "years to fission power" under different funding regimes, and took a crayon to scratch out "fission power" and replace with "antigravity" fusion and also fusion actually works, the only challenge is making it work affordably and safely. we could totally build a fusion power plant today that's a large cavity where we flash water into steam by blasting it with a steady stream of thermonuclear warheads
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Apr 19, 2021 15:47
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suck my woke dick posted:fusion I mean, when you put it that way...
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Apr 19, 2021 16:12
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TheScott2K posted:I don't know how you throw around the phrase "full self-driving" and avoid liability, honestly. All the nag screens in the world aren't gonna drown that out. the other obvious argument for a third-party is "you claim to have made an AI that can safely* drive by itself* ... but can't make an AI to tell if there's actually a human in the driver's seat?"
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Apr 19, 2021 16:13
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I like the idea that even if we figured out gravity, it would be trivially simple to have antigravity wells in the gravity well of the earth. Like just that idea, that we would invent the small scale start decurving spacetime to move cars around, for the sake of easier automation, is funny to me. I also feel like there'd probably be some horrible sideeffect to doing that en masse.
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Apr 19, 2021 16:27
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TheScott2K posted:I don't know how you throw around the phrase "full self-driving" and avoid liability, honestly. All the nag screens in the world aren't gonna drown that out. They call it "Navigate on Autopilot". Full Self-Driving is what you're paying for when you buy the feature, used to be available "some time soon", now with a "maybe sometime in the future, maybe not"-type disclaimer.
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Apr 19, 2021 16:30
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When a self-driving car kills a pedestrian the pedestrian will obviously be at fault. The car manufacturer will have an army of engineers and terabytes of test data showing the car performing safely under any imaginable condition and the pedestrian will have a grieving family trying to show the dead guy wasn’t drunk.
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Apr 19, 2021 16:37
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Beelzebufo posted:I like the idea that even if we figured out gravity, it would be trivially simple to have antigravity wells in the gravity well of the earth. Like just that idea, that we would invent the small scale start decurving spacetime to move cars around, for the sake of easier automation, is funny to me.
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Apr 19, 2021 16:40
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TACD posted:When a self-driving car kills a pedestrian the pedestrian will obviously be at fault. The car manufacturer will have an army of engineers and terabytes of test data showing the car performing safely under any imaginable condition and the pedestrian will have a grieving family trying to show the dead guy wasn’t drunk. Even when the data shows the car not performing safely they still blame it on the pedestrian for doing something completely unpredictable like jaywalking. https://www.npr.org/2019/11/07/777438412/feds-say-self-driving-uber-suv-did-not-recognize-jaywalking-pedestrian-in-fatal- quote:According to the NTSB report, the SUV had "a fusion" of three sensor systems — radar, lidar and a camera — designed to detect an object and determine its trajectory. However, the system could not determine whether Herzberg was a pedestrian, vehicle, or bicycle. It also failed to correctly predict her path.
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Apr 19, 2021 17:39
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Fame Douglas posted:They call it "Navigate on Autopilot". Full Self-Driving is what you're paying for when you buy the feature, used to be available "some time soon", now with a "maybe sometime in the future, maybe not"-type disclaimer. How many thousands are Tesla owners paying for that "maybe" again?
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Apr 19, 2021 17:39
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Lead out in cuffs posted:How many thousands are Tesla owners paying for that "maybe" again? That's my biggest hangup with Tesla. I think it's $10,000 now for it, and that's insane to me.
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Apr 19, 2021 18:36
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Lead out in cuffs posted:How many thousands are Tesla owners paying for that "maybe" again?  Wonder how many people stop reading after "Full Self Driving Capability"
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Apr 19, 2021 19:24
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Jose Valasquez posted:
"Capability" is holding a lot of weight there.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:45
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Silly Burrito posted:"Capability" is holding a lot of weight there. Load-bearing mischaracterization.
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Apr 19, 2021 19:48
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Actionable characterization in a sane society.
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Apr 19, 2021 20:12
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i'm the $10,000 software upgrade to use the sensors and chips that already existed in the car when it rolled out of the factory
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Apr 19, 2021 20:36
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:i'm the $10,000 software upgrade to use the sensors and chips that already existed in the car when it rolled out of the factory unfortunately that poo poo is not exclusive to tesla
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Apr 19, 2021 20:40
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:i'm the $10,000 software upgrade to use the sensors and chips that already existed in the car when it rolled out of the factory Paying for software truly is the herald of the end times. 
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Apr 19, 2021 21:48
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the worse thing is that musk refuses to put lidar on teslas because it would ruin the aesthetic (this, from the cybertruck guy) so the vehicles are permanently deficient relative to other makers it doesn't matter, tesla buyers are rubes anyway
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Apr 19, 2021 21:51
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Kaal posted:Paying for software truly is the herald of the end times. You wouldn't download the software for a car......
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Apr 19, 2021 21:52
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:the worse thing is that musk refuses to put lidar on teslas because it would ruin the aesthetic (this, from the cybertruck guy) so the vehicles are permanently deficient relative to other makers IIRC it's also because their manufacturing is so lovely that the only way they're breaking even is with government subsidies. Lidar costs a couple of thousand per vehicle, and they literally don't have a profit margin they can eat into for that. And this is despite their cars being 1.5-2X more expensive than comparable cars from established auto makers.
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Apr 19, 2021 22:53
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I thought Lidar's cost like $500 bucks per vehicle now?
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Apr 19, 2021 23:16
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Silly Burrito posted:You wouldn't jailbreak a car...... LineageOS when you cowards
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Apr 20, 2021 01:05
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Monaghan posted:I thought Lidar's cost like $500 bucks per vehicle now? That's still 500 in extra losses per vehicle 
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Apr 20, 2021 01:11
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TACD posted:When a self-driving car kills a pedestrian the pedestrian will obviously be at fault. The car manufacturer will have an army of engineers and terabytes of test data showing the car performing safely under any imaginable condition and the pedestrian will have a grieving family trying to show the dead guy wasn’t drunk. And, if Tesla is anything to go by, the autopilot/self-driving system will disengage once it runs out of options or realises a collision is inevitable, giving the human driver a few seconds to see the "Autopilot Cancelled: Please Resume Manual Control of Your Vehicle" message, regain something like normal driving alertness, take stock of the situation and do..."something". So not only is it the pedestrian's fault, it's also the owner/driver's fault because they were in full control of the vehicle at the time of the crash. Definitely not the manufacturer - the self-driving system worked perfectly and returned control to the driver when conditions fell outside its set safety parameters.
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Apr 20, 2021 08:48
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suck my woke dick posted:That's still 500 in extra losses per vehicle They can make it up in regulatory credits.
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Apr 20, 2021 11:06
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Monaghan posted:I thought Lidar's cost like $500 bucks per vehicle now? Not even close.
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Apr 20, 2021 11:47
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Tesla didn’t put lidar on their cars because the whole point was to juice profits by selling a handful of webcams and a promise for $10k and figure that if the company takes off you can deal with that debt later. This actually managed to work as their meteoric stock price rise has let them sell equity to cover their balance-sheet shenanigans.
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Apr 20, 2021 12:50
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Spazzle posted:Not even close. Yeah even after Google spent quite a bit of time trying to drive down costs and get a scale economy going, the sensors cost at least $7,500 per car. Tesla's perspective is basically that lidar technology just isn't affordable for consumer goods, and it presents its own problems that will require cameras in any case (lidar can't read signs or distinguish objects, for example), so it's much better to rely on a technology that is nearly as accurate and actually could be produced.
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Apr 20, 2021 13:26
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Spazzle posted:Not even close. I suspect it's 500 for the kind of lidar you put on a fancy Arduino project, 5k for the kind that's semi reliable getting rained on and rattled around as an automotive part?
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Apr 20, 2021 13:35
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