Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016
I really hope something can be done about Psionic Ascension at some point. It doesn't need to be on the level of Synthetic Ascension but I'd like it to be at least as usable as Biological Ascension. Its extremely cool conceptually but tying it in with so many layers of RNG like the Shroud Boons, Finding Zro and pulling Psi Tech at all hobbles it so much. Plus a lot of the so-called benefits seem weirdly double-edged in a way that, while certainly evocative, means they are often strictly worse than the benefits their counterparts get.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

StealthArcher
Jan 10, 2010




So apparently I'm hearing that a debuff trait is now the new meta trait.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
What's the logic behind that? At first glance, less housing doesn't affect pop growth as Carrying capacity's math doesn't use housing. Is it using a degenerate strategy like using small worlds/habitats to have high carrying capacity, low housing, and farming the emigration?

I'm kinda trying to think of the math on it, and am really unsure of the payoff vs just letting all worlds grow as big as they may naturally. Seems like heavy investment for small returns, especially considering the 'meta' of stealing pops.

Shumagorath
Jun 6, 2001

AnEdgelord posted:

I really hope something can be done about Psionic Ascension at some point. It doesn't need to be on the level of Synthetic Ascension but I'd like it to be at least as usable as Biological Ascension. Its extremely cool conceptually but tying it in with so many layers of RNG like the Shroud Boons, Finding Zro and pulling Psi Tech at all hobbles it so much. Plus a lot of the so-called benefits seem weirdly double-edged in a way that, while certainly evocative, means they are often strictly worse than the benefits their counterparts get.
Is Synthetic ascension just that much better because you can replace all your farms with generators? I still haven't met a problem I couldn't solve with DNA.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

StealthArcher posted:

So apparently I'm hearing that a debuff trait is now the new meta trait.



Lol is it like the old Repugnant for gestalts where it just did the opposite of what it was supposed to?

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
Synthetic Ascension has slightly better habitability at no trait choice cost, and more importantly it has Assimilation, which is a great feature lacking elsewhere in the game. All pops auto-convert to the new template, so there's zero micro of new xeno pops. And yea something about optimality etc but who cares about that?!

I never take it since it uses engineering research, and gods knows I do not have anywhere near enough of that midgame if I'm trying to get megastructures online in a reasonable timeframe.

pmchem
Jan 22, 2010


LordMune posted:

I've lost count of the number of times I've investigated posts about issues that allegedly have been broken for several patches, affects everyone, Paradox doesn't care etc and they've just never been reported. Not once.

I still fix what I can and this is not a condemnation of lovely goons' in/ability to file bug reports, because it can be a hassle and I love you all unconditionally and would never ask that of you — but it always Makes Me Think about hyperbole in online discourse, especially when it comes to video games.

I just made 4 bug reports. It took me all of ~45 minutes to fast_forward a game 10000 days (30 game years) using default settings and discover 4 different problems with the AI, and then screenshot and upload the results.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-3-0-2-91c1-ai-doing-bad-economic-things-1-many.1469393/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-3-0-2-91c1-ai-doing-bad-economic-things-2-many.1469394/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-3-0-2-91c1-ai-doing-bad-economic-things-3-many.1469395/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-3-0-2-91c1-ai-doing-bad-economic-things-4-many.1469397/

Let's say that, for whatever reason, somehow 3 of those can be explained away. The bug-report-per-hour-testing rate is still pretty high, and all I was doing was looking at planets and resource warnings. Does PDX do things like this? And at varying in-game years (e.g. 10, 30, 100, 150)? I have to assume they do, because it just seems like the most obvious playtesting methodology in the world.

But if they do, then how are many obvious problems like these not already cataloged (and corrected)?
And if they don't, ...dear god why? The entire dev team should become a big QA team and just fast_forward and file their own bug reports for like a week. They'd have enough to keep them busy fixing stuff for the rest of 2021.

bob dobbs is dead posted:

it means that nobody files bug reports anymore

that inclination to file bug reports is a commons and outside of actually used-for-technical-stuff open source projects and enterprise poo poo that commons is a blasted ruin reminescent of mordor. sure 90s peeps could rely on it, whatevs

also this response to mune's post was spot on. expecting your playerbase to file bugs in order to get stuff fixed is a ridiculous stance. why yes -- it would help. yes, it is reasonable to ask. it is certainly nice to have, especially with pics/saves attached. but it simply can't be the expectation, and stuff needs to get fixed even if formal reports are never made, when those things are being discussed and examples given elsewhere. if you have a multi-page forum thread of people complaining about issues, and they are providing specific examples of those issues, at some point it just has to be on PDX to write up the bug reports themselves and investigate it, even if it is more inefficient than relying on formal bug reports.

I used to really enjoy stellaris and now how broken stuff is just annoys me, I wish I never bought federations and just want to roll back to like 1.8.x or something

wilderthanmild
Jun 21, 2010

Posting shit




Grimey Drawer
Decided to play as some necrophages. Thought I got the best start ever. 2 choke points. Found a weaker neighbor right away. Even found a Gaia world.

Well the weaker neighbor was a dead end as far as hyperlanes go. Plus they were a doomsday origin, so their capitol blew up, and I only conquered a pathetic 20 pops, The other chokepoint goes off into seemingly uninhabited no mans land, other than a FE. The gaia world turned out to be the FE's holy world.

I feel like I'm just gonna restart.

On a side note, I seem to have conquered primitives that were also necrophages. This doesn't seem like an intended mechanic.

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God

Aethernet posted:

I've heard really good things about Shadow Empire - is there a thread or a similar Goon Commune?


I know I'm a bit late but it has its own thread (it's a niche game, but has some big goon fans, and a decent goon multiplayer community).

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3926377&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1. It's really a hybrid of a hex wargame and a 4x, but that actually turns out to work surprisingly well.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
a software dealio w this many bugs, your devs are usually drowning in triage and a very material portion of those bugs are documented. but managment pretends software dev is O(n) while it resolutely remains O(2^n)

gamedev in particular loves pretending that it isn't possible to do automated testing (and by automated testing I barely mean unit tests: I'm talkin fuzzing and property tests, really) on games, which turns debugging into whackamole 100% the time

basically the only game of comparable complexity that was never a bugfest and continues to not be a bugfest, factorio, has probably the most sophisticated automated testing rig in all of gamedev. this is not a coincidence.

bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Apr 24, 2021

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012
please give me anything to talk about besides the fact that democrats are allowing millions of americans to be evicted from their homes

pmchem posted:

also this response to mune's post was spot on. expecting your playerbase to file bugs in order to get stuff fixed is a ridiculous stance. why yes -- it would help. yes, it is reasonable to ask. it is certainly nice to have, especially with pics/saves attached. but it simply can't be the expectation, and stuff needs to get fixed even if formal reports are never made, when those things are being discussed and examples given elsewhere. if you have a multi-page forum thread of people complaining about issues, and they are providing specific examples of those issues, at some point it just has to be on PDX to write up the bug reports themselves and investigate it, even if it is more inefficient than relying on formal bug reports.

I used to really enjoy stellaris and now how broken stuff is just annoys me, I wish I never bought federations and just want to roll back to like 1.8.x or something

For many people, making games is just a job like any other. You go to work, do your tasks, go home, and get paid. Many devs don't actually play the game they work on, or if they do then it's during the mandatory MP session for 2 hours/week and the game gets abandoned when code changes too much. Your tasks are what's assigned to you in the current sprint by you manager or section lead. If it's a fix sprint, one of them will assign you bugs from the bug list. How do bugs get in the bugs list? QA/Devs (QA are devs too ofc, I just mean it's one of QA's main tasks while others devs do it as an aside) make reports in the internal bug system. Some bugs QA find themselves, others they harvest from user reports on the PDS forum. QA also have all sorts of duties they have to do besides checking for. There's X QA people and they have Y hours for reporting/finding bugs - why aren't there more QA? Because companies love making money, and having more QA means 0.005% less profit this quarter which is unacceptable. "QA don't make us any money! In fact they are always complaining about how buggy stuff is and how little they are paid - ungrateful jerks the lot of them!" "Having better quality would give us more sales in the long run and be worth it? A) Prove it (we do not accept your proof) B) Even if it works out better in the long run it'd reduce profits this quarter, possibly lowering the stock price!!!" etc. etc. And of course, other devs have to fix the bugs that are found - beyond a certain point it doesn't matter if more bugs are found or not because there's no fix time, although possibly you'll find stuff that needs to bump already known bugs in priority. Why isn't there more fix time? Same reasons, you can't really sell fixes or better AI, it has to come along with sellable features and they also take time and generate more bugs, and so on. If things are really a disaster you might get to delay a release or have a longer patch cycle, but serious people get upset when this happens.

Now you can spend your spare time playing your work-game, making notes, talking to strange internet people, bringing up issues you found last night over and over again - but it gets exhausting. You can spend your time at work searching out extra bug reports and fixing the problems you find - but if you fall behind on your official tasks a manager will have words with you about it and it'll be remembered in your performance review, or you need to manage to do everything official as well, which is also exhausting. You won't be promoted as fast or paid as much as the people who never complain, who do every task without pointing out the problems it'll cause, who never say that we cannot ship a product in this condition etc. You'll be the troublemaker, the one managers talk to each other about. One day you'll be tutoring a new hire in the same role whose being paid more than you and wonder why you loving bother when the company doesn't value it and you've burnt yourself out again and you just give up and quit even though you've got nothing else lined up.
(If you want to be a passionate extra-work doer, focus much of your efforts on new features or things that can otherwise make money - bugs is a sucker-bet.)

Anyway, tldr - yes it sucks, but if users don't make bug reports less stuff will be fixed, because capitalism - and if you're going to type out complaints it's probably worthwhile firing off a bug report too, rather than assuming the bug is known and no one cares to fix it.

E: I also want to be clear that I'm not trying to say lordmune is in any way a bad dev. He's tremendously talented, hardworking, and helpful - and he's also posting her and checking up on stuff that gets posted. I just mean it's not fair to except him to do any more unpaid work than he feels like, same as it's unfair to rely on user bug reports.
Not saying pmchem meant that either, just having a semi related rant.

Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Apr 24, 2021

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016

wilderthanmild posted:

Decided to play as some necrophages. Thought I got the best start ever. 2 choke points. Found a weaker neighbor right away. Even found a Gaia world.

Well the weaker neighbor was a dead end as far as hyperlanes go. Plus they were a doomsday origin, so their capitol blew up, and I only conquered a pathetic 20 pops, The other chokepoint goes off into seemingly uninhabited no mans land, other than a FE. The gaia world turned out to be the FE's holy world.

I feel like I'm just gonna restart.

On a side note, I seem to have conquered primitives that were also necrophages. This doesn't seem like an intended mechanic.

Could be worse, you could be fanatic spiritualist necrophages and be boxed in by three fanatic materialists who are all in a defensive alliance with each other. I also had both of my primitive worlds rebel before the stellar shock wore off and had to spend a lot of time putting them down and recapturing my starter worlds.

I think I'm gonna be restarting as well.

Electro-Boogie Jack
Nov 22, 2006
bagger mcguirk sent me.

Darkrenown posted:

One day you'll be tutoring a new hire in the same role whose being paid more than you and wonder why you loving bother when the company doesn't value it and you've burnt yourself out again and you just give up and quit even though you've got nothing else lined up.

darkrenown can we buy you some beers through the internet or something? i know a bunch of us, myself included, love to bitch about all the things that keep stellaris from being a truly great game, but i don't think any of us want the solution to involve you getting burned out trying to fix it. hope you've managed to find something else since leaving PDS...

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

The devs finally fixed the only issue I cared enough about to report (unemployed pops are now sorted to the top of the resettlement list), so I'm satisfied.

Now back to grousing about CK3's lack of historicity and hoping that somebody else will design better systems because I don't want to.

pmchem posted:

I just made 4 bug reports. It took me all of ~45 minutes to fast_forward a game 10000 days (30 game years) using default settings and discover 4 different problems with the AI, and then screenshot and upload the results.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-3-0-2-91c1-ai-doing-bad-economic-things-1-many.1469393/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-3-0-2-91c1-ai-doing-bad-economic-things-2-many.1469394/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-3-0-2-91c1-ai-doing-bad-economic-things-3-many.1469395/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-3-0-2-91c1-ai-doing-bad-economic-things-4-many.1469397/

Let's say that, for whatever reason, somehow 3 of those can be explained away. The bug-report-per-hour-testing rate is still pretty high, and all I was doing was looking at planets and resource warnings. Does PDX do things like this? And at varying in-game years (e.g. 10, 30, 100, 150)? I have to assume they do, because it just seems like the most obvious playtesting methodology in the world.

But if they do, then how are many obvious problems like these not already cataloged (and corrected)?
And if they don't, ...dear god why? The entire dev team should become a big QA team and just fast_forward and file their own bug reports for like a week. They'd have enough to keep them busy fixing stuff for the rest of 2021.


also this response to mune's post was spot on. expecting your playerbase to file bugs in order to get stuff fixed is a ridiculous stance. why yes -- it would help. yes, it is reasonable to ask. it is certainly nice to have, especially with pics/saves attached. but it simply can't be the expectation, and stuff needs to get fixed even if formal reports are never made, when those things are being discussed and examples given elsewhere. if you have a multi-page forum thread of people complaining about issues, and they are providing specific examples of those issues, at some point it just has to be on PDX to write up the bug reports themselves and investigate it, even if it is more inefficient than relying on formal bug reports.

I used to really enjoy stellaris and now how broken stuff is just annoys me, I wish I never bought federations and just want to roll back to like 1.8.x or something

Probably should have just made one report that the fast forward command produces unrepresentative outcomes.

Horace Kinch
Aug 15, 2007

Shumagorath posted:

Is Synthetic ascension just that much better because you can replace all your farms with generators? I still haven't met a problem I couldn't solve with DNA.

There are a couple of perks beyond that, like Synth-exclusive traits (hello fixed +10% happiness), and you can assimilate immigrants/slaves. Synth ascension rules.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


honestly what it seems to come down to with stellaris is that it is the only major paradox product which never had time to bake in the pre-corporate paradox environment. not that paradox wasn't a company and all, but ck2 changed the scale of money flowing through the company to an extent that is hard to overstate and the resulting transformation into a public corporation was, as usual, not necessarily beneficial to the actual business of making games.

eu, ck, hoi, (vicky plz), they all have a core concept and core game mechanics which were created and tweaked in a lower pressure environment. a soul, if you will, that even the most recent iterations of the game are built on. stellaris...does not have this. its pre-launch development was completely catastrophic with the game basically not existing a few months before launch, wiz swooped in to save it and did the best he could given the time pressure of release - but really, stellaris needed another year of development before it launched that it didn't receive.

as such, it began life as an incoherent mess and has just sort of rolled on from there without even a single moment in time where "fix the game" (or even "have a coherent vision for what this game is") was a higher priority than "meet the next release date". even the absolutely necessary revamps, like tiles -> jobs, were basically marketed as features instead of fixes. "we fixed the slowdown" was basically the headline feature of 3.0, but phrased as "wow new pop system!!". because that's the only way a fix makes it onto the priority list. it's not an unsolvable problem, but the stellaris team size would probably have to be doubled to even begin making headway on the accumulated tech debt from 6 years of rushed development. so under capitalism it is actually unsolvable i guess

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Apr 24, 2021

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012
please give me anything to talk about besides the fact that democrats are allowing millions of americans to be evicted from their homes

Electro-Boogie Jack posted:

darkrenown can we buy you some beers through the internet or something? i know a bunch of us, myself included, love to bitch about all the things that keep stellaris from being a truly great game, but i don't think any of us want the solution to involve you getting burned out trying to fix it. hope you've managed to find something else since leaving PDS...

That's a lovely offer, thank you, but there's no need. I'm just overly tired tonight and getting carried away. But yes, I'm in a better situation now with a much more sensible work-life balance 🙂

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Jazerus posted:

honestly what it seems to come down to with stellaris is that it is the only major paradox product which never had time to bake in the pre-corporate paradox environment. not that paradox wasn't a company and all, but ck2 changed the scale of money flowing through the company to an extent that is hard to overstate and the resulting transformation into a public corporation was, as usual, not necessarily beneficial to the actual business of making games.

eu, ck, hoi, (vicky plz), they all have a core concept and core game mechanics which were created and tweaked in a lower pressure environment. a soul, if you will, that even the most recent iterations of the game are built on. stellaris...does not have this. its pre-launch development was completely catastrophic with the game basically not existing a few months before launch, wiz swooped in to save it and did the best he could given the time pressure of release - but really, stellaris needed another year of development before it launched that it didn't receive.

as such, it began life as an incoherent mess and has just sort of rolled on from there without even a single moment in time where "fix the game" (or even "have a coherent vision for what this game is") was a higher priority than "meet the next release date". even the absolutely necessary revamps, like tiles -> jobs, were basically marketed as features instead of fixes. "we fixed the slowdown" was basically the headline feature of 3.0, but phrased as "wow new pop system!!". because that's the only way a fix makes it onto the priority list. it's not an unsolvable problem, but the stellaris team size would probably have to be doubled to even begin making headway on the accumulated tech debt from 6 years of rushed development. so under capitalism it is actually unsolvable i guess

adding peeps to a late software project makes it later. adding peeps to a lovely software project makes it shittier

its not just strictly capitalism, cuz lotsa big ol' open source projects keel under this pressure too, altho what counts for management in open source dealios is unfailingly technical so it happens a lot less. its the unforgiving brutal nature of reality. under the most despotic of conditions every if statement you add to the codebase multiplies the number of code paths you need to test by two. in practice that multiplicand is less than two but it always remains a multiplicand and the testing effort always remains exponential in nature

JerikTelorian
Jan 19, 2007



Jazerus posted:

eu, ck, hoi, (vicky plz), they all have a core concept and core game mechanics which were created and tweaked in a lower pressure environment. a soul, if you will, that even the most recent iterations of the game are built on. stellaris...does not have this.

Not to sound like a broken record, but this is actually what I was referring to when I was talking about Stellaris's writing/vignettes/theming. Mechanically I really don't think it's that rough compared to the other games either -- In HoI4 land combat is fairly boring with the 40-width meta very deeply entrenched and while the ship designer there is fun it's not really all that useful given how fucky naval combat is, and those are the only core features of the game.

To be clear, I still like HoI a lot but I actually think it's a weaker game than Stellaris if only because Stellaris's theming is so perfectly on point. EU sidesteps the issue because for the most part the mechanics "just work" but it's also pretty empty on theme.

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE
Been playing around with different openings and my latest game seems to have simply stopped getting anomalies. Precursor event fired so I know which one I have, but I got all of three generic anomalies and zero precursor ones before they stopped appearing despite a Meticulous scientist with Map The Stars running. I've probably surveyed a dozen or more full systems without finding anything.

Anyone have any ideas what's up with that or how to investigate? Ironman game so I can't use console commands as far as I know.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
Yea, precursors not filling out is a known, old issue. There's an event that fires much later in the game to get you a research project (ie, a finished lvl X anomoly) near your homeworld in an owned system, as a failsafe to catch this issue. You'll probably finish your precursor event at the end of midgame at that rate, unfortunately.

edit: sorry misread your post. No *anomalies*? Never heard of it!

THS
Sep 15, 2017

i think they should just fix the game. simple

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

THS posted:

i think they should just fix the game. simple

now you're thinkin like management!

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012
please give me anything to talk about besides the fact that democrats are allowing millions of americans to be evicted from their homes

isndl posted:

Been playing around with different openings and my latest game seems to have simply stopped getting anomalies. Precursor event fired so I know which one I have, but I got all of three generic anomalies and zero precursor ones before they stopped appearing despite a Meticulous scientist with Map The Stars running. I've probably surveyed a dozen or more full systems without finding anything.

Anyone have any ideas what's up with that or how to investigate? Ironman game so I can't use console commands as far as I know.

All I can suggest is that you might be on the edge of a precursor area, have started that one's chain, and are now scanning in another area which is invalid for you. If you can't scan in a certain direction, you might find stuff there when you eventually find a path, otherwise you'll eventually get the catch up events if no one else completes it.

Although finding no more regular anomalies suggests there's something else wrong it could possibly be very bad luck at a dozen systems. Otherwise, broken mods or a bad install?

Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Apr 24, 2021

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010

I think maybe there's a bit of an open question about how good the default AI can actually be in a strategy game where you invest a bunch of hours into a run. The more time you invest the more frustrating it is to get a game over. I'm not sure your average player enjoys losing to the computer.

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

Darkrenown posted:

All I can suggest is that you might be on the edge of a precursor area, have started that one's chain, and are now scanning in another area which is invalid for you. If you can't scan in a certain direction, you might find stuff there when you eventually find a path, otherwise you'll eventually get the catch up events if no one else completes it.

Although finding no more regular anomalies suggests there's something else wrong it could possibly be very bad luck at a dozen systems. Otherwise, broken mods or a bad install?

I've got a reasonably large slice of space to work with so it shouldn't be a region thing, and anomalies were appearing just fine in a previous game before I quit to start a new one. No mods installed. According to the wiki the chance of an anomaly appearing increases by 0.5% for every surveyed celestial body without a hit but I've never had luck this bad before especially with stacking Meticulous/MtS on my surveyor, most games I'm running neither.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

TOOT BOOT posted:

I think maybe there's a bit of an open question about how good the default AI can actually be in a strategy game where you invest a bunch of hours into a run. The more time you invest the more frustrating it is to get a game over. I'm not sure your average player enjoys losing to the computer.

There's this great post-mortem from a Civ4 dev regarding this issue. He considered the AIs in that game to be 'player foils', things to interact with and overcome as part of the player's journey, rather than drop-in human replacements such as chess. Someone should go dig up that video, it's quite good.

Trouble is Stellaris is kinda none of the above. There are scripted text popups that add a lot of golden sparkle to your first playthrough, but once you've read them a few times all you're left with is the game underneath, which is showing its chipped paint. People may bemoan the Civ5/6 AI all the time, but they'll still say things like "That fucker Montezuma spawned next to me, so I bribed his rear end to go bother someone else". We... don't really talk about the player opponents with that level of personification in here.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Serephina posted:

What's the logic behind that? At first glance, less housing doesn't affect pop growth as Carrying capacity's math doesn't use housing. Is it using a degenerate strategy like using small worlds/habitats to have high carrying capacity, low housing, and farming the emigration?

I'm kinda trying to think of the math on it, and am really unsure of the payoff vs just letting all worlds grow as big as they may naturally. Seems like heavy investment for small returns, especially considering the 'meta' of stealing pops.

Housing provides capacity, even if that housing is occupied. So if you're optimizing your pop growth (which you should be) you're probably doing so by building excess housing, and then that +10% housing usage doesn't matter at all

But I don't really think that's a meta trait, you only get +1 point for it. Still, pretty effective choice for a trait point

Dee Ehm
Apr 10, 2014


I got this event faction and they absolutely suck and are monopolizing all my factions. Apparently they only go away if you don't fulfill any of their objectives (which are all nonsense) but it seems like I can't fail the third one? All my envoys are used even though they want me to not send envoys, but they're still satisfied with that element of their agenda, so they disapprove of me but won't go away. Anyone know what to do about this?

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
Maybe vote on something in the Senate? Favors?

Phosphine
May 30, 2011

WHY, JUDY?! WHY?!
🤰🐰🆚🥪🦊

Darkrenown posted:

For many people, making games is just a job like any other. You go to work, do your tasks, go home, and get paid.

I'm not in gamedev, but I'm in the software industry, and everything you said hits the feels. Incompetent/money-grubbing higher ups preventing you from shipping a quality product is just a fact of life, but I think games suffer from the expectation that because they're fun software, the Devs must use it in their spare time and enjoy it! There are passionate gamedevs who got in it because they want to code games and get to work on a game they love, but it's not all of them.

I used to work at a company that programmed set top boxes, and like three out of a hundred Devs even had one at home, and none of those was ours, but no one expected us to find bugs on our own or read consumer forums, we just worked on bugs the customers reported. We also, of course, had inadequate testing because the right people don't make the decisions on priority and how much time you get, but such is life in the software industry.

Open source projects has some major advantages in this area, namely that a larger percentage of users are programmers who can write great bug reports/feature requests and understand that if it was possible to "just fix it" it would be fixed already, and also that the developers to a greater extent are users who are making improvements voluntarily to something they like, rather than employees working on the feature the sales department already sold.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Dee Ehm posted:



I got this event faction and they absolutely suck and are monopolizing all my factions. Apparently they only go away if you don't fulfill any of their objectives (which are all nonsense) but it seems like I can't fail the third one? All my envoys are used even though they want me to not send envoys, but they're still satisfied with that element of their agenda, so they disapprove of me but won't go away. Anyone know what to do about this?
This is one of those monkey's paw situations. I wished for the game to do more interesting things with factions, so they added a faction whose only purpose is to annoy you.

Sloober
Apr 1, 2011
Turns out if you direct your network to sabotage a starbase, and subsequently take permanent control of said starbase before the op goes off, your loyal spies decide to still continue with the plan to sabotage your brand new starbase, regardless of seeing your flag and your butterfly people all over the station.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Dee Ehm posted:



I got this event faction and they absolutely suck and are monopolizing all my factions. Apparently they only go away if you don't fulfill any of their objectives (which are all nonsense) but it seems like I can't fail the third one? All my envoys are used even though they want me to not send envoys, but they're still satisfied with that element of their agenda, so they disapprove of me but won't go away. Anyone know what to do about this?

Is this a joke referencing Republicans/Tories?

Spanish Matlock
Sep 6, 2004

If you want to play the I-didn't-know-this-was-a-hippo-bar game with me, that's fine.

Serephina posted:

Trouble is Stellaris is kinda none of the above. There are scripted text popups that add a lot of golden sparkle to your first playthrough, but once you've read them a few times all you're left with is the game underneath, which is showing its chipped paint. People may bemoan the Civ5/6 AI all the time, but they'll still say things like "That fucker Montezuma spawned next to me, so I bribed his rear end to go bother someone else". We... don't really talk about the player opponents with that level of personification in here.

Probably because the opponents aren't unique. There's plenty of like, "I spawned next to a devouring swarm so I rallied my other neighbor into a federation so we could fight it off together" etc. Like the only big difference is that every devouring swarm isn't named Jeff or something. There's no easy shorthand for "Militarist Xenophobic Criminal Syndicate Penguins"

LordMune
Nov 21, 2006

Helim needed to be invisible.

Thank you, I love you.

pmchem posted:

expecting your playerbase to file bugs in order to get stuff fixed is a ridiculous stance.

Depending on what you define as "file bugs", it really isn't, but that's beside the point. As I tried (and evidently failed) to make clear, I'm not putting anyone on blast for personally failing to file bug reports. I am only bemused by some of the catastrophizing language used around certain issues, since apparently minor typos in French localization are upsetting enough for multiple people to go through the trouble to report, but there are many allegedly common bugs I only see vaguely alluded to in this thread and nowhere else — It's not like our QA don't monitor social media and create reports, because they do. (Do not come back and own me with examples of issues that are regularly posted about everywhere else yet still do not have jira tickets in our database, I will cry.)

Anyway, I realize now I failed to refute your original supposition re: the "PDX party line" so I'll do so. Maybe you can dig up a post made by an individual on another project or even Stellaris supporting it, because it can help in getting bugs fixed sooner, but in practice it's not true. Properly-formatted bug reports are immensely helpful but they make up, probably, only a (decently-sized) minority of total bugs being filed.

pmchem posted:

I used to really enjoy stellaris and now how broken stuff is just annoys me, I wish I never bought federations and just want to roll back to like 1.8.x or something

I just checked and I guess the steam rollback only goes to 2.1 huh :smith:

Darkrenown posted:

Now you can spend your spare time playing your work-game, making notes, talking to strange internet people, bringing up issues you found last night over and over again - but it gets exhausting. You can spend your time at work searching out extra bug reports and fixing the problems you find - but if you fall behind on your official tasks a manager will have words with you about it

:sympathy: Beyond much-publicized crunch and online harassment campaigns, this industry really can gently caress you up/over in a variety of ways. I hope you'll continue to do good, man.

LordMune fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Apr 24, 2021

Aethernet
Jan 28, 2009

This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!

Grimey Drawer
@LordMune: I tried to report a bug on the Paradox forums but it obliged me to upload a file in order to do so. This doesn't make sense for certain categories of bugs and is a layer of hassle preventing you from receiving particular kinds of reports.

The bug in question is that if a Federation in which the player is a participant has war declared on it - but not on the player - the player does not receive a notification that they are now at war.

This happened a couple of times; the second time it happened I looked up from planet bonsai to find that half of my federation allies' space was now occupied by the Commonwealth of Man. I didn't have direct access to my allies' space, so I invaded the CoM from the back, taking most of their systems. In the white peace that my allies selected, almost all their worlds were given to the CoM and almost all of the CoM worlds were given to my allies. This is the equivalent of Germany owning France but not Germany after WW1.

LordMune
Nov 21, 2006

Helim needed to be invisible.
I don't personally agree with that requirement but QA gets to enjoy the occasional ready-made save game/cat gif, so maybe it's for the best. I've made a note of the issues and will try to look into them.
(This is not an invitation to use SA as a low-effort report form in the future! Send QA some cat gifs.)

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

LordMune posted:

I've lost count of the number of times I've investigated posts about issues that allegedly have been broken for several patches, affects everyone, Paradox doesn't care etc and they've just never been reported. Not once.

I still fix what I can and this is not a condemnation of lovely goons' in/ability to file bug reports, because it can be a hassle and I love you all unconditionally and would never ask that of you — but it always Makes Me Think about hyperbole in online discourse, especially when it comes to video games.

Would you by any chance be able to take a quick look at this, in case you know off the top of your head whether or not it is as intended or a bug?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...enance.1468420/

It might also be a good idea to have someone add the more recent expansions to the bug report form, since they are not on there at all now. I think it's mainly Nemesis (and maybe Necroids) that are missing.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011

Grimey Drawer

Spanish Matlock posted:

Found some abandoned terraforming equipment. Should I not have hit a mystery button on a populated planet? Yes. Did I want to do it anyway? Also yes.

I always queue up some ground armies in case things go wrong and hit the terraforming button.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply