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poo poo POST MALONE posted:Can you imagine any other sport where a team's FO complains that opposing fans are being too mean? Lmao come on. Not only that but you're complaining about Yankee fans. A fanbase willing to tear their team limb from limb much less yours. This FO added a oil tanker to a inferno to put a fire they made out. Absolutely dumb.
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May 7, 2021 19:35
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Its funny to me to think that Carlos Correa will have to factor "how mean are the fans" into his free agency decisions.
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May 7, 2021 19:39
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Sydin posted:N: The Astros have Simple solution: none of the players on that team are HoF eligible. Doesn’t affect most of them, really sticks it to a few.
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May 7, 2021 19:46
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'd to MLB about opposing fans being too mean to them
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STAC Goat posted:Its funny to me to think that Carlos Correa will have to factor "how mean are the fans" into his free agency decisions. If the Yankees sign Carlos Correa i'm done.
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May 7, 2021 19:52
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Dodgers fans better do their duty when Astros come to town this year.
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May 7, 2021 19:53
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Booing Greinke is dumb as hell but it appears at least some fans are paying attention to who they boo. My dad went to a Dunedin Jays game recently against Atlanta and he said the Braves fans there mercilessly heckled Springer the whole game.
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May 7, 2021 19:59
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mcmagic posted:If the Yankees sign Carlos Correa i'm done. The way things are going I can't imagine anyone on either side of that thinking that's a smart idea. Like maybe the Yankees would do it, but that rear end in a top hat ain't signing up for that meat grinder unless he's real, real stupid.
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May 7, 2021 20:00
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STAC Goat posted:The way things are going I can't imagine anyone on either side of that thinking that's a smart idea. Like maybe the Yankees would do it, but that rear end in a top hat ain't signing up for that meat grinder unless he's real, real stupid. I don't think it's going to happen but I also feel like the FO is pretty dumb so anything is possible.
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May 7, 2021 20:02
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Fate Accomplice posted:Simple solution: none of the players on that team are HoF eligible.
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May 7, 2021 20:03
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Altuve had an outside shot but last year and his start this year have not been great. Still too early to say if he's really been effected by fans turning on him, he was a pretty universally popular player before the cheating scandal came out.
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May 7, 2021 20:06
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bawfuls posted:The simple solution was to vacate the title (not award it to anyone else) but that’s not happening, and the HoF is certainly not gonna ban any of those players if the league isn’t willing to. Yeah, I dunno if any of Altuve, Correa, or Bregman will be HOF worthy but I don't think the trash can banging is gonna keep them out on its own. If they're bubble guys then it will be in the conversation but if they're clear picks they'll just go in and they and Astros fans will keep playing the villain/victim. Verlander's the funny case since (a) he's going in, (b) he was on the cheating teams, (c) he didn't directly take part in the cheating, (d) he still benefited from it and defended it like the other assholes. Popete posted:Altuve had an outside shot but last year and his start this year have not been great. Still too early to say if he's really been effected by fans turning on him, he was a pretty universally popular player before the cheating scandal came out. I think its definitely taken the shine off of him. He obviously won't be getting serenaded with "gently caress Your Birthday" everywhere he goes but those underdog narratives just don't work anymore and there's always gonna be someone in the crowd calling him a cheater.
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May 7, 2021 20:07
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I can understand why the Yankees fans are booing Greinke, he was on the 2019 Astros who were almost certainly cheating when they beat the Yankees in the ALCS.. I guess the theory was that by then Houston had wised up a bit and was limiting the assistance to certain "loyal" players who wouldn't go ahead and blab to the next franchise they ended up on, and obviously as a pitcher Greinke wouldn't have benefited directly from the Astros sign stealing operation anyway. But sure, he's associated with something that Yankees fans are rightfully fairly resentful of.
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May 7, 2021 20:11
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STAC Goat posted:I think its definitely taken the shine off of him. He obviously won't be getting serenaded with "gently caress Your Birthday" everywhere he goes but those underdog narratives just don't work anymore and there's always gonna be someone in the crowd calling him a cheater. My thing with Altuve is that he seems to get a disproportionate amount of the hate. I feel like part of that is because he's a small underdog kinda player who it turns out was cheating. It doesn't appear that Altuve was cheating anymore than the other guys but the vitriol back at him has been almost worse than Correa who I feel like has been the most confrontational and doesn't feel any need to apologize. Some of it feels like people taking it out on a guy who they feel never should have been as good as he was and I'm not sure that's fair. Like don't get me wrong, Altuve cheated and he should be boo'd but I'm not sure he's said anything as dumb as Correa/Bregman.
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May 7, 2021 20:17
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, I dunno if any of Altuve, Correa, or Bregman will be HOF worthy but I don't think the trash can banging is gonna keep them out on its own. If they're bubble guys then it will be in the conversation but if they're clear picks they'll just go in and they and Astros fans will keep playing the villain/victim. Yankee fans also, rightly, hated Altuve even before he was exposed as a cheater because he won the MVP over Judge purely because he was a cute story when Judge was WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY better that year.
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May 7, 2021 20:17
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Greinke wasn't really getting a lot of targeted taunts or anything. Most of the energy was focused on Altuve, Correa, and Bregman. But he was the Astros starter on the first game after 2 years of waiting to boo those guys so he definitely got it for the team and organization he's a part of.
STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:21 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 20:17
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mcmagic posted:Yankee fans also, rightly, hated Altuve even before he was exposed as a cheater because he won the MVP over Judge purely because he was a cute story when Judge was WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY better that year. Case in point.
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May 7, 2021 20:18
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I definitely think people get hurt more by the people they liked "betraying" them. The former underdog favorite turning out to be a cheating rear end in a top hat stings more than the cocky rear end in a top hat being one. Then you add in the factor of Correa and Co trying to be like "Altuve never cheated, gently caress you for saying he did" and he's just kind of the face of this whole victim response the Astros have. All of which Altuve took part in with his statements, not saying the harshest stuff but saying all the mealy mouth victim stuff. And that really pissed people off. In NY obviously a lot of it also has to do with him winning the MVP over Judge that year. However you feel on it. I defended Altuve winning it at the time and now I definitely feel a little burned by that and unquestionably there's now doubt on his numbers. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:23 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 20:21
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STAC Goat posted:I definitely think people get hurt more by the people they liked "betraying" them. The former underdog favorite turning out to be a cheating rear end in a top hat stings more than the cocky rear end in a top hat being one. Then you add in the factor of Correa and Co trying to be like "Altuve never cheated, gently caress you for saying he did" and he's just kind of the face of this whole victim response the Astros have. All of which Altuve took part in with his statements, not saying the harshest stuff but saying all the mealy mouth victim stuff. And that really pissed people off. And he also was 100% wearing a buzzer in 2019 when he hit the homer off of Chapman.
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May 7, 2021 20:24
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Popete posted:Altuve had an outside shot but last year and his start this year have not been great. Still too early to say if he's really been effected by fans turning on him, he was a pretty universally popular player before the cheating scandal came out. I think he was affected more by not being able to cheat anymore than the fans turning on him
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May 7, 2021 20:30
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I hate the Astros with all my being, nearly as much as I hate the Angels, but I can't bring myself to give a poo poo about the sign stealing thing at all.
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May 7, 2021 20:44
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RC and Moon Pie posted:I still can't watch highlights of games 6 and 7 in the 1991 World Series. I also try not to mention 1992 to Pirates fans because I understand. My dad cost the Mets the 1988 pennant. When the Mets were up 4-2 in the top of the 9th in game 4, he demanded his full 9 innings. Despite my then 6 year old protestations. How do I know that him demanding the Mets blow a lead so they had to bat in the top of the 9th? Because earlier that season my parents took me to Shea Stadium, and he did the exact same thing. And the Mets lost. All because he wanted his full goddamned nine innings.
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May 7, 2021 20:46
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I'm not saying an apology solves everything, but if the players had shown even a reasonable amount of remorse or humility over the situation I'd honestly probably be over it right now. What pissed me off, and what continues to piss me off, is their victim complex and insistence that they actually did nothing wrong, and we're all just a bunch of snowflakes for getting angry. Trump did not invent the tactic by a long stretch, but he certainly crystalized in the mainstream conciseness that if you just refuse to ever except fault and lie incessantly, eventually people give up and move on. The Astros followed that playbook to a tee: both with the Osuna signing and the sign stealing: and it definitely seems like this recent complaint of their's is coming from their frustration that the playbook is not working this time and fans are still letting them have it. MLB certainly seemed to think the playbook would work when they barely slapped the Astros on the wrist and declared justice served, and sports media tried really goddamn hard to paint the Astros as scrappy underdogs last year, but the fans just aren't having it and MLB/the Astros are pissed. They want to move on and pretend nothing happened, but no dice so far and hopefully no dice for a looooong time.
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May 7, 2021 20:53
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mcmagic posted:Yankee fans also, rightly, hated Altuve even before he was exposed as a cheater because he won the MVP over Judge purely because he was a cute story when Judge was WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY better that year. LOL, gently caress outta here with this. Altuve was within half a WAR of Judge. Both were perfectly legit MVP choices. This ain't Giambi winning MVP over Pedro in 2000.
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May 7, 2021 20:56
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I mean, if anything the whole Astros situation just confirmed the lessons of Trump and politics and everything. If you don't take responsibility the system will probably protect you as long as you're big enough and be inadequate to do something but that's just gonna incite the pushback and outrage even more.
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May 7, 2021 20:59
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habeasdorkus posted:LOL, gently caress outta here with this. Altuve was within half a WAR of Judge. Both were perfectly legit MVP choices. This ain't Giambi winning MVP over Pedro in 2000. 0.7 not half a run. Altuve only won because he's short. It was pathetic. STAC Goat posted:I mean, if anything the whole Astros situation just confirmed the lessons of Trump and politics and everything. If you don't take responsibility the system will probably protect you as long as you're big enough and be inadequate to do something but that's just gonna incite the pushback and outrage even more. mcmagic fucked around with this message at 21:09 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 21:04
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Vacating wins and titles is the dumbest thing in the world. What's done is done, you can't revise history.
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May 7, 2021 21:15
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Sydin posted:I'm not saying an apology solves everything, but if the players had shown even a reasonable amount of remorse or humility over the situation I'd honestly probably be over it right now. What pissed me off, and what continues to piss me off, is their victim complex and insistence that they actually did nothing wrong, and we're all just a bunch of snowflakes for getting angry.
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May 7, 2021 21:15
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mcmagic posted:Altuve only won because he's short. lmao They were both great seasons.
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May 7, 2021 21:16
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General Dog posted:Vacating wins and titles is the dumbest thing in the world. What's done is done, you can't revise history. There’s no putting the genie back in the bottle, you can’t remove those memories from everyone involved. But you can prevent the Astros from hanging 2017 World Series Champions banners in their stadium, selling merch, having 2017 Championship Reunion events in 2037, etc. That owner will make more off the championship in the coming years than he paid in fines to the league for the cheating scandal in the first place. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 21:20 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 21:17
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bawfuls posted:The point of vacating a title isn’t to MIB-mind-wipe the world. It’s to prevent the Astros franchise from making money off the championship in perpetuity. MLB has its head so far up its rear end about history and legacy that it's still trying to MIB-style mind-wipe the world and pretend the cancellation of the 1994 World Series never happened, though. They were never going to strip the Astros of their championship.
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May 7, 2021 21:19
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bawfuls posted:The point of vacating a title isn’t to MIB-mind-wipe the world. It’s to prevent the Astros franchise from making money off the championship in perpetuity. How much revenue does a franchise typically make off of a championship after the first year?
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May 7, 2021 21:20
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General Dog posted:How much revenue does a franchise typically make off of a championship after the first year?
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May 7, 2021 21:21
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General Dog posted:Vacating wins and titles is the dumbest thing in the world. What's done is done, you can't revise history. Sorry, their not being able to have the banner in their stadium or show the world series trophy is not dumb. It was necessary.
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May 7, 2021 21:21
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Timby posted:MLB has its head so far up its rear end about history and legacy that it's still trying to MIB-style mind-wipe the world and pretend the cancellation of the 1994 World Series never happened, though. They were never going to strip the Astros of their championship.
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May 7, 2021 21:22
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I think people need to be able to have confidence that once a game is over, the result is set in stone and not open to litigation at any point in the future. I think that a precedent suggesting otherwise would undermine the game far more than any concerns about cheating.
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May 7, 2021 21:29
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General Dog posted:I think people need to be able to have confidence that once a game is over, the result is set in stone and not open to litigation at any point in the future. I think that a precedent suggesting otherwise would undermine the game far more than any concerns about cheating. What? So if you win no matter how you did it, it is now sacrosanct because it's over and nothing can be done about it.
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May 7, 2021 21:30
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Uh maybe I'm a little late to this but the article says that the commissioner's office hasn't received any such complaints from the Astros, that's just what a security guard told a fan he was making take off his costume Like it would be indefensible if the Astros did that but there's not actually any reason to believe they did right now Go ahead boo the Astros we deserve it but at least don't just take some dumbass Yankee Stadium guard's word as gospel.
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May 7, 2021 21:32
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Popete posted:What? Absolutely, yes. I feel the same about Penn State's wins under Joe Paterno, the various Tour de France and Olympic winners who've been stripped, etc.
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May 7, 2021 21:32
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General Dog posted:I think people need to be able to have confidence that once a game is over, the result is set in stone and not open to litigation at any point in the future. I think that a precedent suggesting otherwise would undermine the game far more than any concerns about cheating. I think this is very wrong. If something happens on the field that is wrong the league should try to make it right... At least symbolically.
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May 7, 2021 21:33
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General Dog posted:Absolutely, yes. I feel the same about Penn State's wins under Joe Paterno, the various Tour de France and Olympic winners who've been stripped, etc. So then why shouldn't every team cheat all the time so long as you don't get caught before winning?
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May 7, 2021 21:33
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