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The funniest part about WB veering from the original plot arc of the DCEU was how the MCU will always beat them to the punch on everything when it comes to big universe arcs(Thanos/Darkseid, timetravel, multiverse, etc) and that was exactly what the original plan was attempting to avoid. By the time Loki is over and Dr. Strange 2 is out there will be nothing novel about a comic multiverse in film so DC will just be retreading ground, again, with The Flash. Its kind of amazing how the parallels between the start of the actual comics rivalry has sort of been revived for their film universes.
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# ? Jun 11, 2021 22:06 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 16:15 |
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AccountSupervisor posted:Its kind of amazing how the parallels between the start of the actual comics rivalry has sort of been revived for their film universes. Tbf I think SCJL is better than the Super-Sons
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# ? Jun 11, 2021 22:13 |
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Neurolimal posted:Tbf I think SCJL is better than the Super-Sons The thought of the Snyderverse being a computer simulation inside the actual DCEU would have been such a ballsy way to reset the canon yet retain the actors and I wish WB were so bold.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 00:25 |
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AccountSupervisor posted:The funniest part about WB veering from the original plot arc of the DCEU was how the MCU will always beat them to the punch on everything when it comes to big universe arcs(Thanos/Darkseid, timetravel, multiverse, etc) and that was exactly what the original plan was attempting to avoid. It's especially funny because Justice League dropped a solid year before Infinity War and two years before Endgame, like imagine if they just went with Snyder's version and didn't re-shoot anything they would have genuinely had the arcs and beaten Marvel to the punch at the same time.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 03:01 |
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Neo Rasa posted:It's especially funny because Justice League dropped a solid year before Infinity War and two years before Endgame, like imagine if they just went with Snyder's version and didn't re-shoot anything they would have genuinely had the arcs and beaten Marvel to the punch at the same time. Well, even if they had beaten Marvel to the punch, Marvel would still have punched harder because Marvel actually put in the work. Justice League had to cram three extra origin stories into itself, while the MCU did all those as separate movies and carefully built its universe over a decade or so of films.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 05:55 |
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Everyone posted:Well, even if they had beaten Marvel to the punch, Marvel would still have punched harder because Marvel actually put in the work. I think the issue is it turns out those origin stories didn't really matter.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 06:15 |
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Before the MCU, a movie could just have three characters in it
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 06:15 |
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Remember when Star Wars had to cram in origin stories for C3PO, R2D2, Princess Leia, Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Han Solo and Chewbacca, because they hadn't done the work and as a result the movie didn't punch hard?
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 06:19 |
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Solo was made so that the OT Star Wars make sense to millennials.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 07:58 |
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Everyone posted:Well, even if they had beaten Marvel to the punch, Marvel would still have punched harder because Marvel actually put in the work. I kinda forgot who Ant man was during Endgame, it would have been nice to have some flashbacks to his solo movies to make sense of his otherwise incomprehensible character.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 08:45 |
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my favorite part of ghost rider was when about 7 minutes in we get flashbacks to multiple scenes we just saw at about 5 minutes in. just in case you missed them and got confused about why he’s mad about selling his soul to the devil, the only thing to have happened in the movie so far suicide squad brain levels of editing
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 09:36 |
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(watching spiderman 2) where is spiderman 2?
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 10:31 |
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:(watching spiderman 2) where is spiderman 2? Confusion increases further when spiderman 3 only has two spidermen. EDIT: Further proof that Ant-man and the Wasp is the superior sequel naming convention. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Jun 12, 2021 |
# ? Jun 12, 2021 11:55 |
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Grendels Dad posted:I kinda forgot who Ant man was during Endgame, it would have been nice to have some flashbacks to his solo movies to make sense of his otherwise incomprehensible character. Tough poo poo. You should have put in the work of watching 30 Marvel movies beforehand.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 14:27 |
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Everyone posted:Tough poo poo. You should have put in the work of watching 30 Marvel movies beforehand. Ah, like the one where Hulk and Bruce Banner merge into Professor Hulk. That was great, I enjoyed Tim Roth's return.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 14:38 |
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Ant Man was a scientsitman who could grow small or big
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 14:38 |
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Zzulu posted:Ant Man was a scientsitman who could grow small or big No he's a man who is friends with a scientistman, who is also called Ant Man.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 15:42 |
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Zzulu posted:Ant Man was a scientsitman who could grow small or big Big deal I can do that too
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 15:49 |
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RBA Starblade posted:Big deal I can do that too Source your quotes.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 16:07 |
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Everyone posted:Justice League had to cram three extra origin stories into itself, while the MCU did all those as separate movies and carefully built its universe over a decade or so of films. From watch ZSJL, and reading the drafts of JL2 and 3, the story would have serviced the characters very well and would have given them a fair bit of characterization and growth that would have felt realized and earned.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 16:10 |
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FilthyImp posted:It would have been a fun comparison. MCU built a whole franchise and allowed c-listers to shine. But a lot of that is built on undoing the work characters do in their solos. Yeah, but now to actually get into the MCU and start, you need to be willing to watch something like 2 or 300 hundred hours of movies and TV shows. 24 movies in 3 phases, plus the Bana Hulk, 5 Tobey and Garfield Spidermans, 13 X-Men movies, 2 Fantastic Four movies, Agents of Shield, 4 netflix shows, 3 disney plus shows. I can't believe we've spent so much time watching this poo poo.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 16:43 |
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Everyone posted:Justice League had to cram three extra origin stories into itself, while the MCU did all those as separate movies and carefully built its universe over a decade or so of films. This is a story that online nerds created to explain why Justice League was less than half as successful at the box office than the first Avengers film. The MCU had the advantage of fleshing out the characters over a whole bunch of films! The DCEU rushed ahead too fast and paid the price! Meanwhile Guardians of the Galaxy came out and was based around 5 minor comicbook characters that had never appeared in any previous films and had barely any pop culture presence (especially compared to Aqua Man and Flash) yet it still made more money than Justice League. Introducing new characters isn't a disadvantage for a film, if anything it should have been a major drawcard. Also there were 5 MCU films spread out over four years before Avengers and there were 4 DCEU films spread out over four years before Justice League, the difference in the lead in between the two was pretty minimal. Incredible Hulk and the first Captain America film also weren't anywhere near as popular as the early DCEU films, they sold roughly half as many tickets as much as Man Of Steel. But somehow it's become accepted wisdom that the Avengers film had massive advantages that helped it become so insanely popular that Justice League didn't. Pillowpants posted:Yeah, but now to actually get into the MCU and start, you need to be willing to watch something like 2 or 300 hundred hours of movies and TV shows. The MCU has been around for 13 years now, a huge percentage of cinema goers have been watching those films since they were a kid.It's just part of the cinema landscape now, like Star Wars.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 17:13 |
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:This is a story that online nerds created to explain why Justice League was less than half as successful at the box office than the first Avengers film. The MCU had the advantage of fleshing out the characters over a whole bunch of films! The DCEU rushed ahead too fast and paid the price! Meanwhile Guardians of the Galaxy came out and was based around 5 minor comicbook characters that had never appeared in any previous films and had barely any pop culture presence (especially compared to Aqua Man and Flash) yet it still made more money than Justice League. Introducing new characters isn't a disadvantage for a film, if anything it should have been a major drawcard. Yes, the real problem with the theatrical cut of Justice League is that there wasn't enough of it. People endlessly talk about the majestic tapestry of the MCU, but rarely elaborate on what it even is. Like, how does the narrative of the Infinity War & Endgame benefit from mainlining hundreds of hours of content beforehand?
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 17:25 |
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The middle act of Endgame is callback city. But most MCU films work on their own and that is probably part of their strength.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 17:29 |
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KVeezy3 posted:Yes, the real problem with the theatrical cut of Justice League is that there wasn't enough of it. If you've seen the first Avengers movie, you see half of Thanos' face and you get to know his henchman that dies on his next appearance/fifteen movies before Infinity War and isn't relevant for anything!
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 17:29 |
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:This is a story that online nerds created to explain why Justice League was less than half as successful at the box office than the first Avengers film. The MCU had the advantage of fleshing out the characters over a whole bunch of films! The DCEU rushed ahead too fast and paid the price! Meanwhile Guardians of the Galaxy came out and was based around 5 minor comicbook characters that had never appeared in any previous films and had barely any pop culture presence (especially compared to Aqua Man and Flash) yet it still made more money than Justice League. Introducing new characters isn't a disadvantage for a film, if anything it should have been a major drawcard. Which just means that nobody actually cares about introducing the character, they just want to know how they got their powers and costume. Guardians of the Galaxy explained it with "they're from space", so it got a pass. Similarly, nobody complains about X-Men because their powers all come from the same place too. Even in The Avengers, nobody cared that Black Widow and Hawkeye got dropped into the series without any fanfare, because they don't have any specific visual effects that need to be explained. If people cared about things like being familiar with a character's internal life, or bringing the context of their experiences into a new situation, then the MCU would have run out of steam long ago because the characters just default to template after every movie.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 17:32 |
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Robot Style posted:Even in The Avengers, nobody cared that Black Widow and Hawkeye got dropped into the series without any fanfare Black Widow was introduced in Iron Man 2 and Hawkeye had a bit part in Thor!
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 17:51 |
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The middle act of Endgame is callback city. But most MCU films work on their own and that is probably part of their strength. Right, so that aspect is decidedly detrimental to the narrative by shoehorning in a storytelling device usually relegated to a sitcom series bereft of ideas. Of course, any film should be able to stand on its own, and sequels, prequels, spin-offs etc have always been driven partly by marketing, but I don't think it's good that people are now celebrating that the MCU was able to shed all pretense and place that concern first and foremost.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 17:58 |
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I mean I feel like I understood Cyborg’s character after his 5-minute vignette in ZSJL than I do Thor’s character after 7 movies
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 18:03 |
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Imo theres value in the Marvel way insofar as it can cut a lot of exposition, and provides it a la carte; dont need a movie showing who Doctor Strange is? Then you dont need to watch Doctor Strange for this other movie Doctor Strange is in. Where things get annoying is the insistence that characters have to be treated this way, because it's what Marvel did (which gets weird when you consider how often other franchises are mocked for imitating Marvel). A lot of the time you dont need a two hour+ movie for The Guy that Grows Big or Water King to get their schtick! Sometimes their introductory sequence can be thematically appropriate for this other story! It's not like movies with large ensembles were invented by Marvel.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 18:04 |
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Robot Style posted:If people cared about things like being familiar with a character's internal life, or bringing the context of their experiences into a new situation, then the MCU would have run out of steam long ago because the characters just default to template after every movie. If they grew and developed as people and actually dealt with their traumas instead of covering over them with humour then there'd be less quips. FilthyImp posted:Lol you simpleton, you absolute knob. Yeah pretty much every character in Avengers had previously appeared and - much more importantly - had their individual quip styles defined. Loki was mean-quippy, Thor was bro-quippy, Fury was sarcastic-quippy, Coulson was dry-quippy, Hawkeye was I'm-too-old-for-this-poo poo quippy, etc etc.. Hulk/Banner hadn't been quippy enough in his standalone film so he had to get a do-over as dorky-quippy. I mean, look at the very first trailer for the movie - the big character interaction moment at 1:10 is Captain America and Iron Man trading snarky comments and Thor sniggering off to the side. That was the real showdown that the audience was tuning in to see: quips quips quips! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOrNdBpGMv8 The second trailer had almost no quips but leaned really hard on the idea that the movie is mostly about the Avengers fighting among themselves and struggling to work past their differences and come together as a team https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIR8Ar-Z4hw KVeezy3 posted:I don't think it's good that people are now celebrating that the MCU was able to shed all pretense and place that concern first and foremost. I'm not celebrating it, I think it was a coldly calculated business move to pander to audiences.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 18:07 |
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I'm pretty sure that the Marvel/Disney executives sat down at some point and wrote up a big list of the essential ingredients for a smash hit superhero/comic movies based on the previous biggest hits (Superman 78, Batman 89, TMNT 90, Spider-Man 02, etc) and right at the top of the list was "The hero acts like a smug rear end in a top hat during dramatic moments" People forget that Reeve's Superman was a total dick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ykt4GD7jtQ
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 18:23 |
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Reeve's Superman killed his own father by challenging him to a footrace that triggered a heart attack, because he was upset about not being able to show off his powers at school.
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 19:15 |
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Robot Style posted:Reeve's Superman killed his own father by challenging him to a footrace that triggered a heart attack, because he was upset about not being able to show off his powers at school. Superman's father died on Krypton. Superman's DAD, however....
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 19:32 |
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Superman being a dick is always fun and Reeve knew how to hit the tone perfectly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBryGe1USG0
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# ? Jun 12, 2021 19:42 |
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Edward Mass posted:Superman's father died on Krypton. Superman's DAD, however.... "Jor-El may have been your father, boy. But, he wadn't your daddy."
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# ? Jun 13, 2021 05:18 |
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The best part is all that superdickery is extremely faithful to the comics https://superdickery.com/tag/superman-is-a-dick/
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# ? Jun 13, 2021 07:23 |
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I'm not celebrating it, I think it was a coldly calculated business move to pander to audiences. Sorry for being unclear, as I didn't mean to indicate you specifically in that remark. But I do think that your earlier counter-narrative, where the proof against Justice League's excuse is that GOTG was financially successful without having established characters beforehand and not being 2.5+ hours long, is overly reductive, because it leaves out the entirely different kind of stories they're respectively telling. Consequently, it places the possibility of superhero stories into a small box. Snyder has made multiple ensemble films that are self-contained, but he was doing something different with his Superman trilogy, where the protagonists have the narrative space & capacity to take on a mythical stature. Take for example, Batman v Superman, which only has two super-heros to 'introduce' but results in a narrative with a fairly complex & interweaving structure, even with Wonder Woman remaining the character with a Dark and Mysterious Past until the end. Intrinsically linked to this is that Snyder was allowed to make these kind of films, and then had his legs repeatedly cut off near the finish line. KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jun 14, 2021 |
# ? Jun 14, 2021 14:53 |
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KVeezy3 posted:Sorry for being unclear, as I didn't mean to indicate you specifically in that remark. One point about GotG is that by the time it was released, there had already been nine previous MCU movies, all of which were at least relatively well received by audiences. So the MCU was a successful brand at this point. Audiences had come to trust that whatever else Guardians of the Galaxy would be a fun action movie with a good bit of comedy because that's what all the previous MCU movies had been. Also, the MCU was the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Which meant that Guardians of the Galaxy would be an exploration/revelation of a new part of that universe and the new characters in that part of the universe.
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# ? Jun 14, 2021 15:16 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 16:15 |
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Also most viewers seem to go by trailers and word of mouth much more so than whether the fictional characters or universes are familiar to them
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# ? Jun 14, 2021 16:20 |