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MourningView posted:it's not a mock so it should just be the first. I don't think it has anything to do with the raptors he had a good tournament and people decided he can shoot now because he had one good year from three Vecenie was interviewed by some Raptors people and he did give the reasoning that Mitchell was a "Toronto sort of player." I mean for sure the tournament gave him some luft, but from the perspective of someone engaging through the lens of Raptors media the logic on Mitchell definitely seems to be being presented as 'Delon Wright Fred VanVleet bing bong so simple'.
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Jun 3, 2021 18:18
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I think that only seems true because you do not engage with any non-raptors media
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Jun 3, 2021 18:19
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MourningView posted:I think that only seems true because you do not engage with any non-raptors media It's served me well so far.
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Jun 3, 2021 18:27
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I keep seeing two guys linked to Toronto: Davion Mitchell and Keon Johnson. What's the story with these guys? Answering this here so the draft talk doesn't get fractured into multiple threads Mitchell is an older prospect who is a very good defensive guard and a slasher who prior to this year could not shoot at all. He had a nice year from three this season taking mostly open catch and shoot looks but previously had been a terrible shooter and also was still bad from the foul line this year. He had been more of a late first/early second type prospect until the final four but he had great run helping lead Baylor to a title and his stock blew up. I think he's still more of a late first guy personally because of the age and size (he's as good a defender as you can be for a 6'2" guy but it's still hard to be a true impact defender at that size) and because I don't trust the shot. Keon is raw offensively but an absolutely ludicrous athlete in every way and very strong for his age. His game had been growing really fast through high school but he didn't have a great year at Tennessee, who ran a bad offense and jerked his minutes around a lot. He still was a great defensive players and showed flashes as a slasher but the shot needs a ton of work and his game just generally needs polish. I like him but the bust potential is pretty high.
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Jun 4, 2021 19:05
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Man thanks for the answer but that does not fill me with confidence. That said, Ujiri might just trade the pick.
El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 21:12
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They'd be a good spot for Keon, they've generally done a pretty good job developing shooting and the upside for him is like top 4 player in the class. They'd probably do fine with Mitchell too I guess but I don't see the kind of upside to justify a top 10 pick there.
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Jun 4, 2021 21:26
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i think the floor for davion mitchell is probably a 16-20 mpg okay defensive player at the 1, solid rotation guy who you can put next to a big ball handler and see some success with. he’d be a great piece for, like, boston the big question mark is the shooting; he’s got the same one year wonder thing that guys like oladipo and fultz had going on as far as three point shooting goes, and with the college line being farther in, it’s always risky to take a guy who maybe had a career year shooting what are gonna be long 2s in the nba if i’m toronto, i’m swinging for the fences since i’m probably not picking high in the lottery for the rest of the window this core is going to be together
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Jun 4, 2021 21:28
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Like Davion Mitchell going top 10 while Jaden Springer is in the 20s just fundamentally makes no sense to me
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Jun 4, 2021 21:42
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dokmo posted:The dokmo award for college player who probably won't be drafted but should be based solely on his name goes to Phlandrous Fleming Junior. CSU also has Malik Battle, while not being one of one is my favorite last name for guards
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Jun 4, 2021 22:48
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Declan MacManus posted:i think the floor for davion mitchell is probably a 16-20 mpg okay defensive player at the 1, solid rotation guy who you can put next to a big ball handler and see some success with. he’d be a great piece for, like, boston I don't know what his specific future will be, obviously, but college history is replete with guys who suddenly found a shot their last year in college and then couldn't find it again once they got to the NBA. If I'm a GM, I'd basically draft them as if they reverted back to what they were doing the year before, not hope that they found a shot and can keep it. That goes double or triple if they're juniors or seniors who had two or three bad shooting years before figuring it out. That said, he's probably got a solid floor where I'd draft him at that point if he fell that far. Guys who can defend like that can at least be end of rotation guys, even if they never get better offense and can help fill out a roster cheaply. Good pick if they can get him.
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Jun 5, 2021 00:48
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There are guys who learn to shoot later for sure but yeah generally you want to go with the biggest sample possible, and for his career he was a very bad shooter. The free throw percentage remaining bad his senior year is also a bad sign, since that is strongly correlated with overall shooting ability. The age thing matters a lot too, he'll be almost 23 when the draft happens. When he was a freshman like Springer or Johnson he was scoring 3 points a game on 43/29/66 shooting splits. Last year was the first time in his career he cracked double digits in PPG.
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Jun 5, 2021 01:51
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I watched a mock draft where they had Mitchell @ 6. He might end up just fine, but LOL. Am I crazy for thinking Garuba might be top 10? The more I watch, the more I like. Maybe I just like saying his name.
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Jun 5, 2021 01:55
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It's not crazy, he's probably the best defensive prospect in the draft. But the offense is a big problem, I have no idea how he scores and a 6'8" guy who has to be a center on offense is a rough path.
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Jun 5, 2021 02:01
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MourningView posted:There are guys who learn to shoot later for sure but yeah generally you want to go with the biggest sample possible, and for his career he was a very bad shooter. The free throw percentage remaining bad his senior year is also a bad sign, since that is strongly correlated with overall shooting ability. Yeah, definitely not suggesting that there aren't guys who improve their shot even from after college and before the draft, but GMs talking themselves into thinking that someone who had one good year against lesser competition and from closer can suddenly shoot from further out against NBA defenses. It's right up there with expecting that the 6'7" 170 lbs willowy guard can add 30-40 lbs of muscle to not get murderated by NBA defenders and if they do, not have it in any way affect their game like a loss of the speed that made them successful against lower tier defenses.
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Jun 5, 2021 03:44
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The reason to take Davion Mitchell is that he WILL be good. There’s basically a 0% chance that he doesn’t provide value on his rookie contract. The reason not to take Davion Mitchell is that like 20 things need to go right for him to realize his upside as a better scoring and more athletic Patrick Beverley. He has an inverse value curve thing where the better the team that he goes to, the more valuable he is. I’m sure some team in the top 10 will feel that they’re 1 complementary player away. I’m a big fan of his, but he’s an archetypical late first type of player
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Jun 5, 2021 05:31
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Charlotte’s probably going to be searching for a big center or a defensive wing. Anybody at 11 to get excited about?
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Jun 5, 2021 05:50
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morestuff posted:Charlotte’s probably going to be searching for a big center or a defensive wing. Anybody at 11 to get excited about? Alperen Sengun seems like he could do a lot of work on a team with very good passers and shooters, as he is himself a very good passer and a post menace.
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Jun 5, 2021 06:15
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straight up brolic posted:The reason to take Davion Mitchell is that he WILL be good. There’s basically a 0% chance that he doesn’t provide value on his rookie contract. The reason not to take Davion Mitchell is that like 20 things need to go right for him to realize his upside as a better scoring and more athletic Patrick Beverley. He has an inverse value curve thing where the better the team that he goes to, the more valuable he is. I’m sure some team in the top 10 will feel that they’re 1 complementary player away. Yeah that seems like where he should go, but he's probably gonna end up a top 10 pick, definitely lottery, because some GM is gonna talk themselves into taking him early because of this last year. I hope he succeeds, but he's gonna have a harder path because GMs for bad teams are literally gamblers on a losing streak making increasingly longshot bets trying to get back to winning.
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Jun 5, 2021 06:24
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Alperen and Davion shooting into the top 10 is great because that means the Kings have a decent shot at Moody, Barnes, or Keon Johnson
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Jun 5, 2021 06:26
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Veryslightlymad posted:Alperen Sengun seems like he could do a lot of work on a team with very good passers and shooters, as he is himself a very good passer and a post menace. Just read a lengthy ESPN profile and he sounds awesome. Charlotte's already overstocked with big men tweeners, though, and they need at least one good defender at some point. In a vacuum I think Kupchak would be into him but I don't know if he can justify it I'd be down for a team that exclusively passes behind the back though
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Jun 5, 2021 06:33
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morestuff posted:Charlotte’s probably going to be searching for a big center or a defensive wing. Anybody at 11 to get excited about? Center you're probably looking at Garuba or Sengun so would depend if you want offense or defense there. Isaiah Jackson wouldn't be crazy in that range either, it'd be a bit of a reach but not a huge one. He's also a rim protection/rim runner type, not as polished or mobile as Garuba, but quite a bit bigger and probably with more upside. That could also be a spot to swing for the fences with Kai Jones. Defensive wing you'd be looking at Moody, Keon, or Franz Wagner. straight up brolic posted:The reason to take Davion Mitchell is that he WILL be good. I don't think this is necessarily true if the shot improvement isn't real. MourningView fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 13:02
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We have entered the next stage of the draft https://twitter.com/mike_schmitz/status/1401180224264368137
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Jun 6, 2021 03:15
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MourningView posted:I don't think this is necessarily true if the shot improvement isn't real.
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Jun 6, 2021 03:42
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straight up brolic posted:The defense is a bankable elite NBA skill This would be true if he was like 6'6" but if you're 6'2" there's a limit to how much defensive impact you can have no matter how great you are because you can only guard so many guys. If Pat Bev couldn't also space the floor he'd be back in Europe by now. Mitchell is a good straight line driver and passer so he's not completely without offensive value but even in college he wasn't a positive offensive player until this year when he shot like 15% better from three than he ever had before. If he doesn't shoot is Mitchell significantly better than, like, Trent Forrest? MourningView fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Jun 6, 2021 |
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Jun 6, 2021 04:10
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WhyteRyce posted:We have entered the next stage of the draft that jumpshot is awful, he needs to trash that thing and start from scratch e: so i'm not just being a snide dick about it i'll explain- watch his guide hand very closely; he's pushing the ball with both hands when he shoots. that's gonna create an erratic spin on it (think joakim noah and his weird perpendicular jumper) and also create an inconsistent release and arc and travel. it's going in, so i think a lot of coaches would be content to leave it, but he's also not having those shots contested in a live basketball environment, and also he only shot 27.5% from the college 3P line despite clearly showing some range in that clip it's bad, folks. Declan MacManus fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jun 7, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 14:30
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Since there was a recent PD Web stream about him, I figured I might as well ask, what do you guys think of Kessler Edwards and his weird shot?
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Jun 7, 2021 22:24
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https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1402012702889885696?s=19 checks pac 12 all defensive team Yeah we can just assume this guy is a thunder till proven otherwise
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Jun 7, 2021 22:31
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Metapod posted:https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1402012702889885696?s=19 he'd probably go lottery if he wasn't like 25, he's good. Dejan Bimble posted:Since there was a recent PD Web stream about him, I figured I might as well ask, what do you guys think of Kessler Edwards and his weird shot? I like him, the shot is weird but he has a huge sample of good results, has size to play 3/4 and is a good defender. Not a huge ceiling but seems like a very obvious rotation wing to me, should go somewhere in the mid-late first. Would love him to get to Utah's pick.
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Jun 7, 2021 22:47
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Changing my Paul Millsap Award to Isaiah Todd. I like him a lot. His potential as PnP guy is incredible. High ft%. Don't love his ability to drive. Or lack thereof.
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Jun 11, 2021 00:29
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He is butt on defense
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Jun 11, 2021 01:47
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You're butt on defense.
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Jun 11, 2021 04:10
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Well yeah he is an Iowa fan.
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Jun 11, 2021 06:03
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Kirios posted:Well yeah he is an Iowa fan. I just assumed it was only a football thing like I have very pointedly avoided gushing over joe wieskamp in this thread to maintain my objectivity but just know it is lurking
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Jun 11, 2021 06:06
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ButtWolf posted:Changing my Paul Millsap Award to Isaiah Todd. I like him a lot. His potential as PnP guy is incredible. High ft%. Don't love his ability to drive. Or lack thereof. That is a rough acronym. I'd stick to spelling it out
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Jun 11, 2021 06:09
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Garuba should be nicknamed Garuda so they can make wingspan jokes.
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Jun 11, 2021 21:24
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https://twitter.com/ESPNPlus/status/1404840671958142989?s=19 they are really setting kuminga up for failure with this sort of poo poo
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Jun 15, 2021 19:17
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“The wild card” also isn’t helpful in giving any idea what he plays like
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Jun 15, 2021 19:35
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how does green have more star potential than cade
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Jun 15, 2021 20:58
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Declan MacManus posted:how does green have more star potential than cade jumps higher
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Jun 15, 2021 20:59
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Declan MacManus posted:how does green have more star potential than cade better name. wtf is a Cade, did George Lucas name him.
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Jun 16, 2021 00:59
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