|
so when these investors buy up entire projects, are they financing with federal home credit? you know, the credit that's intended to support individual ownership and occupancy?
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 20:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 08:03 |
|
|
Gazpacho posted:so when these investors buy up entire projects, are they financing with federal home credit? you know, the credit that's intended to support individual ownership and occupancy? no they';re financing through the fed you can borrow 100 billion bucks at 0.1% rate, presumably yoy "inflation" or finite-limited landprices are going to go up >0.1% per year. issue more corporate bonds. sell the toxic mbs back to feds. buybuybuy
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 20:46
|
|
|
I hate all these articles about why buying a home is a bad investment and we should be happy to rent. I'm from the Seattle area, my whole family is here and most of my friends, I don't want to leave so I know I'd be happy to spend the next 30 years here. I bought a trailer park home in 2007 for $20,000 and I've thrown away over $120,000 on lot rent in the last 12 years I've lived here. I would've been most of the way to paying off a 15 year loan by now if I could've gotten my foot in the door of a real house back then.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 20:50
|
|
|
Mirthless posted:[Doomsday Economics] a pyramid only goes up so high
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 20:50
|
|
|
I'm sure nobody in this thread needs to be told this, but unemployment is intentionally frustrating and difficult to get. I was laid off in 2019 and the whole thing was excessive. Filling out a bunch of forms, proof of employment, ids, bank statements, had to sign up for some proof of job search site that didn't let you login until you called the state labor office but they didn't point that part out anywhere. Having to reapply every week. Nothing incredibly difficult, just tedious and stupid bullshit for something you rightfully earned via wages stolen from your paychecks for companies to pay the unemployment insurance tax. In the end I didn't even qualify because I had a PRN job where I was fortunate enough to jump into 40 hours and that income disqualified me lol. Of course when covid started and the fake lockdowns and layoffs happened last year all the chud coworkers were raging about lazy welfare queens taking in thousands of unemployment while they had to work for less. I tried to tell them they were taking in thousands in unemployment because the max amount was capped at something like $400 and I'm sure these people your chud uncles know weren't making $18/hr to reach that cap. But what did I know, it's not like I was just laid off and went through the entire process or anything. Fourth hand fox news apoceypha was definitely a more reliable source.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 20:52
|
|
|
just checked Zillow, my home's almost back up to pre-crash 2007/2008 levels!
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 20:52
|
|
|
wolfs posted:oops all lakes ! all Finnish people speak English anyway you'll be fine
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 20:54
|
|
|
As soon as the next housing crash starts, sell your house and rent temporarily until the market bottoms. Keep your poo poo in storage if needed. Then buy back your house for pennies on the dollar.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 20:56
|
|
|
I worked two jobs for 3 years just to afford the down payment on my house (200,000) in 2015. According to estimates its now worth $350,000 at the lowest. Its a chud neighborhood, so I could sell BUT there's not where I could go that I could afford if I did. Sometimes I think I should just buy a property instead and tiny house it for the rest of my life.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:05
|
|
|
land is a li share of the monopoly on violence. the thing that changes about the world when you transact in land is the ability to call the cops for trespass the root value of land is the value you have for that. decide on prices accordingly
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:07
|
|
|
Lacrosse posted:I hate all these articles about why buying a home is a bad investment and we should be happy to rent. I'm from the Seattle area, my whole family is here and most of my friends, I don't want to leave so I know I'd be happy to spend the next 30 years here. I bought a trailer park home in 2007 for $20,000 and I've thrown away over $120,000 on lot rent in the last 12 years I've lived here. I would've been most of the way to paying off a 15 year loan by now if I could've gotten my foot in the door of a real house back then. the whole reason why buying a home is a bad investment is because housing supply is always in excess, in every market, it's the dirty "secret" (except, not) that powers the entire real estate market and has for decades there's only a handful of places in the entire US at any given time that have more buyers than they have available (for sale) homes - two of those markets are NYC and DC. NYC is basically frozen in time at this point and land there is legitimately an investment to hold because there's no room left to build anything new. DC has expansion room (or their adjacent suburbs do) but the actual population of DC is tied more to the political process than people wanting to live there organically, and property is changing hands constantly regardless if homes are being built or not, so if owning land and renting/rerenting/selling/reselling is your business, then yes, real estate is an investment opportunity there. but everywhere else? when you look at markets like LA during the dotcom boom or the SF/Denver real estate booms they are being driven by employment concerns and there's plenty of space to build around these cities, so the problems causing their real estate prices to increase are tied almost entirely to transitive problems that will resolve themselves long before you have paid off your investment, let alone sold it to someone else. so what you're really counting on in these markets is that not only will prices stay steady, but that some other transitive problem will come along to cause real estate prices to spike and demand to go up again when you're ready to sell. essentially, you're gambling. And not in the sense that "all investments are gambling", because you have tied up between 4 and 10 years of wages in a single investment With each new generation of homeowner-investors, the amount of actual money that needs to be generated from the sale of a property to give you a reasonable return on your investment increases by greater and greater amounts. You will eventually reach the point where it is impossible for new buyers to enter the market at the price existing homeowners are setting and the market will stagnate, collapse, and need deep restructuring or at the minimum reforms and regulation. We are getting past the point where corrections can solve this problem and eventually an entire generation of homeowners are going to get stuck holding the bag. And at the rate that these costs are going up, I think it's pretty obvious it's going to either be us or the zoomers that that happens to. the only way to solve this problem is to end the paradigm of home ownership as an investment vehicle. It's just like consumer credit, in general, this was a loving terrible idea that never did consumers or the whole of society any amount of good whatsoever. Mirthless has issued a correction as of 21:23 on Jun 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:15
|
|
|
Beached Whale posted:Absolutely, the phrase they use is "Sell in May, go away" sounds like a good time to buy 
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:17
|
|
|
Lacrosse posted:I hate all these articles about why buying a home is a bad investment and we should be happy to rent. I'm from the Seattle area, my whole family is here and most of my friends, I don't want to leave so I know I'd be happy to spend the next 30 years here. I bought a trailer park home in 2007 for $20,000 and I've thrown away over $120,000 on lot rent in the last 12 years I've lived here. I would've been most of the way to paying off a 15 year loan by now if I could've gotten my foot in the door of a real house back then. my cousin is trying to get a big film festival going in his hometown of 30k people in south central wisconsin and asked how much money it would take to lure someone someone year round to focus on it. I was like man I don't know, 40k? housing is cheap as hell there. But you gotta convince them not to settle in chicagoland first which isn't easy to do and you sure as poo poo won't go anyone from anywhere outside the central time zone its sad when i look at these small tertiary college town rust belt cities that are super nice, houses are $150k for a 1500sqft place, and there's just no demand at all for living there . hell, the low housing prices probably keep demand from going up because the INVESTMENT returns won't be very much mastershakeman has issued a correction as of 21:25 on Jun 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:20
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:land is a li share of the monopoly on violence. the thing that changes about the world when you transact in land is the ability to call the cops for trespass you can call the cops on people for trespassing on land you're renting too there is literally no reason to participate in the housing market right now on this level other than "it is cheaper, after I did all of the math, than renting" you will never be able to make your money back on this investment, and if you do, you will just be doing so at the expense of whoever you sell it to, who will lose everything if it took my dad a year's wages to pay off his first house, and my brother took three year's wages to pay off his, and I'm looking at four to six years to pay off my first home, what does that say for future generations? a greedy person might think "wow, someone's gonna pay me like fifteen years worth of wages when I'm ready to sell!" and might not notice the sound of blades sharpening all around them Mirthless has issued a correction as of 21:29 on Jun 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:25
|
|
|
The Protagonist posted:i wish i could have a house The trick is to live in a state that no one wants to live in and then your mortgage on a big house and nice yard will be less than what people in places people actually want to live in pay for renting a one bedroom.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:28
|
|
|
Thoguh posted:
can we get a forums setting that just puts a strike through the posts of accounts from the libcoasts, automatically? if they could all just show up like this for me that would be great Mirthless has issued a correction as of 21:32 on Jun 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:30
|
|
|
wolfs posted:oops all lakes ! play “my summer car” and you’ll instantly be 25% Finnish
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:31
|
|
|
Lacrosse posted:You joke, but in 2019 I had a friend tell me I needed to get on the property ladder at any cost. This was in response to me being adamantly opposed to buying anything more than 4x my annual salary. I thought he was stupid for throwing $400/mo away on PMI. But jokes on me, that lovely house in West Seattle he paid $400,000 for a few years ago is now worth close to a million dollars by now. Another friend I know put 3.5% down on a $214,000 house in 2015 and it's worth over $700,000 now. There is no shortcoming in recoiling from this madness. Sometimes the only way to win is to not play the game. I only want a 2br for my partner and I with enough yard space for a veggie garden, is that so much to ask? gently caress you, America 
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:33
|
|
|
Mirthless posted:you can call the cops on people for trespassing on land you're renting too yah but the landlord can in turn evict you and then call the cops on you, so landlordin gets you up the hierarchy. but at the top is the state w/ eminent domain, not that that gets used that much
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
I don't care about my house appreciating in value or being an investment, I just want to not have a monthly payment (rent/mortgage) for the rest of my life. I also want to be responsible for my own poo poo because I spent nearly 2 years trying to get the slumlords to fix my worn out outside breaker. I tried to have it repair myself but no contractor would touch it because it wasn't my property, but the owners wouldn't schedule maintenance because they told me nothing was wrong and that it was normal for the power in my whole house to go out when my hot water tank and furnace came on at the same time. Also every single month I gotta worry about these assholes just selling the trailer park to developers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
Asproigerosis posted:But what did I know, it's not like I was just laid off and went through the entire process or anything. Fourth hand fox news apoceypha was definitely a more reliable source. In my experience the magic number has been $5k/mo since about 2010, I don't know where it came from but that's how much you get "on welfare" according to every conservative in my life.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:36
|
|
|
They also changed the lease agreement this year to say only 2 pets when before it was only 2 cats or dogs. I've got 2 aquariums and a bird cage along with 2 cats, so I told them about my bird and 1 cat and I gotta hope they don't look in my windows and see the second cat or my fish. I am so sick of living under someone else rules
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:37
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:yah but the landlord can in turn evict you and then call the cops on you, so landlordin gets you up the hierarchy. but at the top is the state w/ eminent domain, not that that gets used that much yea but like there's a process and laws they've gotta follow and if you're dealing with a big enough landlord it's pretty hard to get kicked out of a place you're renting as long as you're following the rules of your lease, in some places they're even obligated to renew your lease barring extenuating circumstance if this is how you define property ownership, you're arguably more of a homeowner renting than you are living under some HOAs (which, themselves, are another consequence of homeownership as an investment!) i had vastly more freedom in my apartment than a guy i worked with had in his own home. He used to sit there feeling all smug about how much value he was getting by being part of an HOA, but like, he couldn't have a cookout in his back yard without building a privacy fence first (from a list of approved vendors) and at that point why not just rent? Mirthless has issued a correction as of 21:41 on Jun 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:37
|
|
|
my house has appreciated like 50-80k in value according to zillow since we bought it a few years ago. it would be nice to realize those gains from selling but then i would have to buy a house again... and they're too expensive! it is funny to think about how my 1500 sqft 3/2 was like an oversized monstrosity when it was built (mid-50s) and now is considered way too small.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:39
|
|
|
go for a stroll posted:In my experience the magic number has been $5k/mo since about 2010, I don't know where it came from but that's how much you get "on welfare" according to every conservative in my life. That's called, "being rich," and it's why our tap water is poisoned. Accretionist has issued a correction as of 21:42 on Jun 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:40
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:yah but the landlord can in turn evict you and then call the cops on you, so landlordin gets you up the hierarchy. but at the top is the state w/ eminent domain, not that that gets used that much At the actual top of the chain lies capital and the scant handful of people who control capital.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
lobster shirt posted:my house has appreciated like 50-80k in value according to zillow since we bought it a few years ago. it would be nice to realize those gains from selling but then i would have to buy a house again... and they're too expensive! refinance and take money out. When you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:42
|
|
|
Lacrosse posted:They also changed the lease agreement this year to say only 2 pets when before it was only 2 cats or dogs. I've got 2 aquariums and a bird cage along with 2 cats, so I told them about my bird and 1 cat and I gotta hope they don't look in my windows and see the second cat or my fish. Lying is definitely the right idea in this sort of case, yeah. Usually they're just trying to discourage people from owning a bunch of cats, big dogs, or exotic animals that could damage stuff, but there's absolutely no reason to give them any evidence that you're violating their idiotic rules.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:44
|
|
|
Mirthless posted:the whole reason why buying a home is a bad investment is because housing supply is always in excess, in every market, it's the dirty "secret" (except, not) that powers the entire real estate market and has for decades How do you figure there's room for expansion in SF but not nyc And sure there's a surplus of homes in suburb sprawl but not the desirable areas.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:45
|
|
|
lil poopendorfer posted:How do you figure there's room for expansion in SF but not nyc The answer is pretty simple. He doesn't actually know what he's talking about.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:46
|
|
|
Lacrosse posted:They also changed the lease agreement this year to say only 2 pets when before it was only 2 cats or dogs. I've got 2 aquariums and a bird cage along with 2 cats, so I told them about my bird and 1 cat and I gotta hope they don't look in my windows and see the second cat or my fish. every desirable city to live in has municipal codes you have to follow and many, many places you want to live are in HOAs to preserve the value of their "investments", so you really need to forget this, completely. i promise you they don't mean aquariums or cagebirds when they're talking about pets, they're talking about cats/dogs/weird exotics. If you ask your apartment manager they will tell you, they are talking about the kinds of animals that can cause damage to the apartment, they are not setting an arbitrary limit on how many animals they think you are capable of taking car eof.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:46
|
|
|
Lacrosse posted:They also changed the lease agreement this year to say only 2 pets when before it was only 2 cats or dogs. I've got 2 aquariums and a bird cage along with 2 cats, so I told them about my bird and 1 cat and I gotta hope they don't look in my windows and see the second cat or my fish. I was repeatedly reported for having too many pets at an apartment complex because of a stuffed lizard I kept near a window. Even if I had a pet lizard, they're silent and can't cause any damage to the unit, so why would anyone care? I can understand a limit on dogs or cats, they make noise and run loose, but who's mad enough about pets in aquariums or terrariums enough to both make a rule and report it? Though TBF I'm 99% sure I know who was responsible for both the rule and trying to get us kicked out, an old credibly-accused wife abuser on the other side of the complex who was also a hate elemental on a permanent crusade to evict every other tenant who lived there. Succeeded with several nice neighbors too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:48
|
|
|
lil poopendorfer posted:How do you figure there's room for expansion in SF but not nyc If you are really so stupid that you think a ten minute commute is worth is alone, itself, worth paying five million dollars more money for, I cannot explain to you how this pyramid scheme has an upper limit and I am not going to bother trying, it's too hard and there are functional issues that you need to overcome before you can understand what I am trying to get across Mirthless has issued a correction as of 21:54 on Jun 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:49
|
|
|
Our realtor told us that our house in the condition we bought it would sell for 80k more than we paid for it and that's without the stuff we've done to it. Others have said that with upgrades we might get 150k more for it. We did almost all the work ourselves and for great deals on materials. It's also cheaper than renting. It super sucks that many of you are priced out now but sorry owning a detached house rules and the government is going to throw everyone but the filthy rich under the bus to protect home owners. I'm so glad we bought when we did.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:51
|
|
|
Mirthless posted:If you are really so stupid that you think a ten minute commute is worth paying five million dollars more money for someone please link this poster the wikipedia page for marginal utility of money
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:53
|
|
|
Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I want to sell all our poo poo and move to a cheap place that's insulated from climate change but am tied to this accursed county. I'm thinking upstate New York. don't forget acid rains and so many ticks with limes disease.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:54
|
|
|
Mirthless posted:it's too hard and there are functional issues that you need to overcome before you can understand what I am trying to get across lmao
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:54
|
|
|
Vox Nihili posted:Lying is definitely the right idea in this sort of case, yeah. Usually they're just trying to discourage people from owning a bunch of cats, big dogs, or exotic animals that could damage stuff, but there's absolutely no reason to give them any evidence that you're violating their idiotic rules. tbf my next door neighbor had about 8 chickens in his backyard a few years ago. I never complained because I liked to make clucking noises at them, but if I had to guess they were trying to codify against that. The lease was worded 'no animals of any kind' on the lot, but I own the house and everything in it, I just don't own the land. I've never had the landlord do a walk thru of my house and my cats are indoor only. I had 2 cats, one died just after Christmas so I adopted another one a few months ago before I got my new lease. My mother said if it ever comes up that she belongs to her and I'm just baby sitting. My folks are close so I could even hide her there if I have to, but my new kitty pretty much just chills on my bed all day until I come home so it's probably never going to come up. Didn't stop my anxiety from freaking out about it though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:56
|
|
|
Mirthless posted:can we get a forums setting that just puts a strike through the posts of accounts from the libcoasts, automatically? if they could all just show up like this for me that would be great I live in a shithole state and if everyone has to read your lovely and hilariously naive and incorrect posts about housing then everyone has to read my shitposts too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 08:03 |
|
|
Thorn Wishes Talon posted:someone please link this poster the wikipedia page for marginal utility of money there is more at play here than the upper limit of money a handful of people here have available to spend and what is and isn't desirable is inherently transitive which was the whole point of the post the person i was replying to skimmed before they got some weird poo poo in their brain about the NYC/SF comparison the only reason anyone wants to live in loving san francisco right now is because there's jobs there and it's a nice place to live, all the conditions that made it a desirable housing market can evaporate (as they have in the past) just by building more houses in an adjacent suburb or having another, better job market rise up nearby. NYC has no room for suburbs and isn't going to stop being a good place to work the second the economy crashes (which ends up killing the CA real estate market every single loving time) "but it'll bounce back!" okay, fine, fine, sure. And when it bounces back to be good enough to make you money back on YOUR investment, the next generation of buyers will just need to make sure they have at least $120,000 to put down a down payment, and I'm sure wage growth will keep up to support this outcome, just as it ha- Mirthless has issued a correction as of 22:01 on Jun 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2021 21:59
|
|