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ACH push is a thing. So are wire transfers, and a million slightly higher level things like Zelle or Venmo. There are weird crusty parts of the US banking system, but electronic payments work... just fine, and are pretty widespread these days. I haven't written a check in years, and only use cash once every few months (mostly, for  ).
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Jun 20, 2021 17:25
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Zwabu posted:https://open.spotify.com/episode/0C1ChgSi9LZoa9dCTmAEZp?si=7223c6854bd240d6 satoshis marketing team sent her an affiliate gift package podcasts are all propaganda
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Jun 20, 2021 18:29
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Oh, oh, let me! - Cost of a $20 note from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing: $0.10 - Cost of all electricity used to mine Bitcoin worth $20 at its historic peak price, at Washington state rates: $20 * (1 BTC / $65,000) * (10min / 6.25 BTC) * (1 h / 60 min) * (1 day / 24h) * (1 year / 365 days) * (131 TWh / year) * (10^9 kWh / TWh) * ($0.098 / kWh) = $12 (equipment costs not included)
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Jun 20, 2021 19:41
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Are we sure that it was Seraph who wrote up the "I, Pencil" post? I thought that was some other libertarian weirdo.
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Jun 20, 2021 20:01
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Bablicon posted:Do you really think the situation you described is the pinnacle of human innovation? You sound like someone from the greatest generation touting the miracle of the rotary telephone. Most coins are way better than that. They are instant and almost free. It’s really only BTC AND ETH that are lovely. Instant (for a factor of 'instant' that includes block processing time and paying for priority in fees) and 'almost free' to move a token that is not spendable as money, as opposed to a few seconds longer than instant and actually free to move legal tender using the worst means of monetary transfer still in use? Whatever you're smoking, it's clearly too strong for your pea-brain. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jun 20, 2021 |
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Jun 20, 2021 20:36
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Liquid Communism posted:Instant (for a factor of 'instant' that includes block processing time and paying for priority in fees) and 'almost free' to move a token that is not spendable as money, as opposed to a few seconds longer than instant and actually free to move legal tender using the worst means of monetary transfer still in use? Yeah, the whole "it's fast and cheap to move through this part of the system" might even be true, but it ignores that the system, if you want to start and end with actual money, includes two separate, unrelated instances of unreliable automated haggling that skims a big chunk directly to some third party's wallet. Meanwhile, handing someone dollars gives them those dollars instantly.
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Jun 20, 2021 21:02
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Just imagining how free I'd feel if gas cost 0.00009751btc/gal instead of dollars.
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Jun 20, 2021 21:53
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nomad2020 posted:Just imagining how free I'd feel if gas cost 0.00009751btc/gal instead of dollars. Look at you being a normie with your stupid gallons. In the glorious future gas is measured in volumecoin.
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Jun 20, 2021 21:58
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One time I messed up the burn fee on a fill up and the station exploded.
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Jun 20, 2021 23:21
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Gascoin, based on the proof of posting standard
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Jun 21, 2021 00:08
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Wrongfor10yrs LOL posted:We don't. I was mostly joking but this doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about anyway. You're just quoting the party line. I'm referring to how when pushed against the limits of what a fixed-currency can do, such as as managing a speculative bubble, bitcoiners try to replicate the institutions and processes of a government with fiat currency. Tether operates on an open lie that it is fully backed by bitcoin, it is not and prints tether when prices fall in order to try prop up demand for bitcoin. Its analogous to a fractional banking system used by Reserve Banks to enact monetary policy. Except its not used to increase liquidity for consumers or to pay for government projects like with traditional monetary/fiscal policy, but to maintain the interest and wealth of speculators who are only holding bitcoin to profit of its volatility. Who cares if its original purposes is to enact a anarcho-capitalist monetary system. I'm talking about how its actually being used. Hamburger Sandwich fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 01:52
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shame on an IGA posted:The thing you have to understand about our dumb american system is that account-to-account transfers are pull-based, so the first step in paying someone is giving them a level of access where if they punch up an extra zero, it's coming out of your account. And your bank doesn't give a gently caress, that's just an opportunity for them to charge you fees for overspending. i'm late but what the gently caress are you talking about, every bank payment i've ever made (yes, in america) is telling my bank "hey give X to Y" and then it happens, either with a check at first and then telling a website or my phone to do it. i've never paid a fee except for that one time i had to use western union to buy internet drugs. edit: hell one time some rear end in a top hat got my debit card info somehow and bought plane tickets, all i had to do was call the bank and my money was back instantly and they sent me a new card. i'd like to think they got arrested at the airport or something but who knows. Mimesweeper fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 02:53
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Somfin posted:Yeah, the whole "it's fast and cheap to move through this part of the system" might even be true, but it ignores that the system, if you want to start and end with actual money, includes two separate, unrelated instances of unreliable automated haggling that skims a big chunk directly to some third party's wallet. I think that's the problem, convenience is boring, all the overcomplication and delays make bitcoiners feel like they're doing something Fancy and Important. A Rube Goldberg Currency.
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Jun 21, 2021 02:59
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Spurious assumptions about money have a following in the US because of funded propaganda campaigns going back 40 years, not because of peculiarities in payment processing.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:25
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Hamburger Sandwich posted:Who cares if its original purposes is to enact a anarcho-capitalist monetary system. I'm talking about how its actually being used. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I9o18gdojRw The Crypto-pilled plutocracy is working everyday towards "the deconstruction of the administrative state" https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/05/demise-of-the-nation-state-rana-dasgupta Rana Dasgupta posted:Why is this happening? In brief, 20th-century political structures are drowning in a 21st-century ocean of deregulated finance, autonomous technology, religious militancy and great-power rivalry. Meanwhile, the suppressed consequences of 20th-century recklessness in the once-colonised world are erupting, cracking nations into fragments and forcing populations into post-national solidarities: roving tribal militias, ethnic and religious sub-states and super-states. Finally, the old superpowers’ demolition of old ideas of international society – ideas of the “society of nations” that were essential to the way the new world order was envisioned after 1918 – has turned the nation-state system into a lawless gangland; and this is now producing a nihilistic backlash from the ones who have been most terrorised and despoiled. While goons sit here and shitpost the laughchain, the crypto cabal are forming syndicates, bribing politicians, and forming networks to empower plutocracy more than it already is. What we’re witnessing is the rapid rise of crony anarcho capital gaining power in first world countries, to the degree we formally only saw in destabilized nation states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism
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Jun 21, 2021 03:30
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Why would the elite want a world that isn't exactly how everything currently is? And how are they, in any way, better off with cryptocoins instead of owning literally all of the means of production? The rich elites own the world already, how would a cryptocurrency provide a safe harbor when they already own all of the harbors? What's offshore? It's just another shore, and the only reason offshore accounts exist is because they are off the shore of where they actually use and make money.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:48
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Computer Serf posted:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I9o18gdojRw Yes I would agree, centralisation is inherent to any system of capitalism, and in their utopia they are just using different words to describe a bureaucracy. I’m just focusing on how proponents of Bitcoin don’t even see how they are contradicting themselves because they use an arse-facing backwards method of analysis where they start with the conclusion first.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:55
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Hamburger Sandwich posted:Yes I would agree, centralisation is inherent to any system of capitalism. I’m just focusing on how proponents of Bitcoin don’t even see how they are contradicting themselves because they use an arse-facing backwards method of analysis where they start with the conclusion first.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:56
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Crypto is the wholly unnecessary third wheel to the Koch bros. (whichever one is alive) plan of dismantling the state so they can pollute and oppress the proles as they see fit. This is neither new nor in any way actually aided or modified by the presence of crypto.
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Jun 21, 2021 04:09
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Mimesweeper posted:i'm late but what the gently caress are you talking about, every bank payment i've ever made (yes, in america) is telling my bank "hey give X to Y" and then it happens, either with a check at first and then telling a website or my phone to do it. i've never paid a fee except for that one time i had to use western union to buy internet drugs. You never set up a recurring bill for autopay? Your debit card fraud experience is also outside the norm - typically with a debit card, once money is gone, it's gone, and it's up to you to prove you didn't make the transaction.
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Jun 21, 2021 05:04
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kw0134 posted:Crypto is the wholly unnecessary third wheel to the Koch bros. (whichever one is alive) plan of dismantling the state so they can pollute and oppress the proles as they see fit. This is neither new nor in any way actually aided or modified by the presence of crypto. Coinbase and ethereum basically make money laundering and bribery much easier than "lobbying" or shell companies and trust fronts
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Jun 21, 2021 05:11
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It's been a couple of years since, but the last time I challenged a charge on my debit card the fraud department guy said 'OK' and the charge went away and I never heard anything else about it. The bank also lets me give Amazon and Netflix different card numbers, so I'll know if it's Jeff loving around.
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Jun 21, 2021 05:11
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Silly Newbie posted:You never set up a recurring bill for autopay? Most debit cards are Visa or Mastercard, and have reasonable protections. My bank card is technically a debit card, and I'm protected from fraudulent purchases. Maybe if you're talking a prepaid debit card, but even then I don't think you're correct.
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Jun 21, 2021 05:58
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jokes posted:Why would the elite want a world that isn't exactly how everything currently is? And how are they, in any way, better off with cryptocoins instead of owning literally all of the means of production?
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Jun 21, 2021 06:19
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Silly Newbie posted:Your debit card fraud experience is also outside the norm - typically with a debit card, once money is gone, it's gone, and it's up to you to prove you didn't make the transaction. This is wrong. The problem with a debit card is that money is gone temporarily, and that's your real money out of your account. So you also have secondary effects like overdrafting, bouncing a check, or being unable to get cash. For many people who don't have a buffer besides what's in their checking account that's a big problem. While if your credit card gets stolen and maxed out, nothing immediately bad happens. You delay paying it while talking to the company about fraud. Both have protection from fraudulent use of the card & the ability to reverse charges. The place where you can't get your money back with a debit card is ATM theft, if your card & pin gets skimmed.
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Jun 21, 2021 06:46
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https://twitter.com/thacryp/status/1406592948821692423?s=20 Lol
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Jun 21, 2021 07:06
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jokes posted:Why would the elite want a world that isn't exactly how everything currently is? And how are they, in any way, better off with cryptocoins instead of owning literally all of the means of production? The clock is very much ticking on "the ways things are now" global warming is going to cause insane social upheaval I the next 50 years and the wealthy know it, who knows what governments will look like in that time. Might as well have some money not bound to those governments to use in your off world moon station
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Jun 21, 2021 07:08
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quote:I'm saying you are going to exchange your paper for digital marshmellows sooner or later whether you like it or not. The only meaningful decision you have is how much opportunity cost you want to subject yourself to between this moment and that one. (1) we already exchanged our paper for digital money (2) even if you assume crypto is the future, none of the existing system is the future due to the very nature of it. For it to be adopted by governments, corporations, people who receive money, etc, there'd have to be unanimous agreement on what to use. no rational actor is going to use an existing coin to replace existing currency. it'd be rolled out around exchange for usd/a nation's currency, and there would be no benefit for early adopters & no competition for who can misuse the most hardware & electricity. #2 is even far fetched because by not making it truly decentralized and instead having a network of trust you don't have to be handicapped by blockchain, can make a system several orders of magnitude more efficient, can make a system that scales with instead of wastes additional computing power, and can make it at least as secure as any crypto. which is ultimately why cryptocurrency is a failed tech when it comes to being a currency. Khorne fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 07:27
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Is there any reason the blockchain records have to be a competition?
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Jun 21, 2021 07:58
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text editor posted:The clock is very much ticking on "the ways things are now" global warming is going to cause insane social upheaval I the next 50 years and the wealthy know it, who knows what governments will look like in that time. If civilization has so deteriorated that state-backed currencies are useless, unbacked currencies are also going to be useless.
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Jun 21, 2021 08:02
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starkebn posted:Is there any reason the blockchain records have to be a competition? Every time you ask "is there any reason" the answer will eventually be "no". Like, even in the glorious crypto future where no one has to trust any authority; how the gently caress am I going to buy stuff? Food might as well be poison. Or do I trust Costco? If so, Costco makes crypto pointless as they can be my bank. Buy gas? How the gently caress do I trust that the octane rating is correct and that the meter that ticks away It's all so loving dumb and exhausting that the crypto bros even try to hide that it's all about "look ma', I'm rich [on paper, if that]! That makes me smart!"
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Jun 21, 2021 08:21
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Hello Sailor posted:If civilization has so deteriorated that state-backed currencies are useless, unbacked currencies are also going to be useless. Especially currencies that inherently require extensive worldwide infrastructure- electricity, internet, space travel, satellites- to function.
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Jun 21, 2021 08:34
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Hello Sailor posted:If civilization has so deteriorated that state-backed currencies are useless, unbacked currencies are also going to be useless. Apparently bitcoiners have thought of this problem and came up with the solution of trading coins via hamradio.
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Jun 21, 2021 08:48
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Khorne posted:there's two problems with this line of thinking Seraph's continual sales pitch of "it's not too late for you to get in on bitcoin - but can you afford to wait any longer" is because the only way to get cash out of the system is to convince another idiot to put cash into it
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Jun 21, 2021 08:51
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Party Boat posted:Seraph's continual sales pitch of "it's not too late for you to get in on bitcoin - but can you afford to wait any longer" is because the only way to get cash out of the system is to convince another idiot to put cash into it I like how he shoots his own arguments in the foot every time he tells us the estimated USD value of his digital coin collection. If it was a currency, he wouldn't need to.
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Jun 21, 2021 09:33
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Number go down. This is good for bitcoin?
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Jun 21, 2021 10:09
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Raygereio posted:My neighbors' kid is a bitcoin evangelist (as in we went from "hello, nice to meet you" to him trying to get me to invest in dogecoin and asking to setup a mining rig in my garage in less then an hour). And the destruction of civilization as we know it was part of his sales pitch. Im not even sure why Im asking, but how in the gently caress is a Ham Radio gonna work for literally any of this. Like doesn't the need to trust the other person that the imaginary number of btc they own they do and that they are subtracting it when they say they're giving it to you undermine both its usefulness and also the fundamental point of Bitcoin which is that each and every libertarian knows only that they are untrustable?
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Jun 21, 2021 11:14
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Hello Sailor posted:If civilization has so deteriorated that state-backed currencies are useless, unbacked currencies are also going to be useless.
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Jun 21, 2021 11:21
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Barudak posted:Im not even sure why Im asking, but how in the gently caress is a Ham Radio gonna work for literally any of this. Like doesn't the need to trust the other person that the imaginary number of btc they own they do and that they are subtracting it when they say they're giving it to you undermine both its usefulness and also the fundamental point of Bitcoin which is that each and every libertarian knows only that they are untrustable? in the wasteland that Ham Radio better be made out of ham or they gonna eat your face instead (instead of saving it for later) the thumb drive gets tossed in the dirt.
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Jun 21, 2021 11:39
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does anybody have that screenshot of the price graph of somebody losing $60,000 overnight on one of the recent crypto crashes? I feel like posting that along with "we can be wrong every time, you can only be wrong once"
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Jun 21, 2021 11:47
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