[Pop Culture] the theatrical cut removes the scene that sets up the orc race war

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Pop Culture] the theatrical cut removes the scene that sets up the orc race war

«‹›2707 »

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

Mr Hootington posted:

Oh yeah the subtext is there that the death eaters are killing thousands of "mudbloods" and muggles in Britain alone. Then you can remember that the death eaters supposedly have global reach with thousands of members that have paralyzed the entire wizardry and muggle worlds.

Harry does become a cop and you joke, but the OG upper command of the death eaters almost all get away with their original crimes because they say voldemort mind controlled them and you can't prove they are lying.

Why are they killing muggles

# ? Jun 30, 2021 04:05

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 16:50

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008

mastershakeman posted:

Why are they killing muggles

The death eaters view muggles as vermin to be culled, exploited, or ruled over.

# ? Jun 30, 2021 04:21

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

mastershakeman posted:

Why are they killing muggles

why does anyone

# ? Jun 30, 2021 05:19

RandolphCarter: Jul 30, 2005

I�ve never read the books nor seen the movies, someone explained the rules of quidditch to me and that is some dumb poo poo.

# ? Jun 30, 2021 05:44

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Harry Potter had people going 'Huh, so kids DO have the patience to read full-length novels' when everything else was the Animorphs publishing model of endless ghostwritten filler. It's hard to see it in retrospect the same way as it was when it came out.

# ? Jun 30, 2021 07:12

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 243 days!

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Harry Potter had people going 'Huh, so kids DO have the patience to read full-length novels' when everything else was the Animorphs publishing model of endless ghostwritten filler. It's hard to see it in retrospect the same way as it was when it came out.

the thing about kids is that they were designed for a much more intelligent world than our own, and this is especially evident when they are provided with a suitable environment for nourishing their abilities to some degree

# ? Jun 30, 2021 07:20

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY: Feb 3, 2006

I think wizards were supposed to be hosed up British aristocrats but then they kinda became the lesser evil, which means you can no longer criticise them.

# ? Jun 30, 2021 07:55

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

mister potter my name is emily, i'm from birmingham and i am twelve years old. please, my people yearn for magic

# ? Jun 30, 2021 08:03

Okuteru: Nov 10, 2007; Choose this life you're on your own

RandolphCarter posted:

I’ve never read the books nor seen the movies, someone explained the rules of quidditch to me and that is some dumb poo poo.

Rowling watched a water polo match and thought up how to make it a more annoying past time for American college intramurals.

# ? Jun 30, 2021 09:33

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

i share this video every time harry potter comes up, but it still rules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mxgSq1wiPk

# ? Jun 30, 2021 09:50

theflyingexecutive: Apr 22, 2007

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Harry Potter had people going 'Huh, so kids DO have the patience to read full-length novels' when everything else was the Animorphs publishing model of endless ghostwritten filler. It's hard to see it in retrospect the same way as it was when it came out.

filler? animorphs was a a series of body horror novels framed entirely within a narrative of child soldiers killing a body-snatching invasion force. they just never became popular enough for KA Applegate to deem herself to be too good for an editor

# ? Jun 30, 2021 10:20

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

theflyingexecutive posted:

filler? animorphs was a a series of body horror novels framed entirely within a narrative of child soldiers killing a body-snatching invasion force. they just never became popular enough for KA Applegate to deem herself to be too good for an editor

A shitload of them were ghostwritten and have nothing actually happen.

# ? Jun 30, 2021 10:58

theflyingexecutive: Apr 22, 2007

Ghost Leviathan posted:

A shitload of them were ghostwritten and have nothing actually happen.

I clicked on a random ghostwritten one and got this:

quote:

Rachel, Marco, and a human-morphed Tobias and Ax assemble at Morgan Airport, where they jump the fence and hijack a private jet belonging to Phillip Morris USA. After putting the plane on a collision course with a building

sorry, seems like it owns actually?

# ? Jun 30, 2021 11:26

FacelessVoid: Jul 8, 2009

even as a kid i couldn't understand how people were into HP. instead of portraying a fantastic world where magic is real, kids go to some musty old castle, sit in class, and get looked down upon by teachers just like real life. but uh, like, some inanimate objects can talk or something. loving snooze fest.

# ? Jun 30, 2021 13:26

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

by far one of the funniest things about harry potter is that hogwarts is the only education they get

if you're wizard-born, you are homeschooled until age 10, then you go to hogwarts for seven years, graduate at age 17, and that's that

if you're muggle-born, you are in the regular british school system until age 10, then you go to hogwarts for seven years, graduate at age 17, and that's that

there is no primary or post-secondary education and everybody is dumb as poo poo and doesn't understand anything because if you didn't learn it in your seven years of high school you didn't learn it, and the only characters who seems to have a legitimate interest in educating themselves about a specialization that wasn't covered in school (Ron's dad) or about multiple subjects that are not course requirements (Hermione) are either treated as eccentric weirdos or giant nerds to be pitied

rowling definitely didn't intend this but all her worldbuilding points to wizards being some of the stupidest people alive, who would die of scurvy or traffic accidents in about twelve hours if you took away their magic because literally everything in their lives is based on being able to wave a wand and fix any random problems that come up (or ask your enslaved sentient creature to do the magic for you so you don't even have to wave the wand yourself), which means wizards never have to actually understand any problems in the first place

# ? Jun 30, 2021 14:16

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

oh and I stand by everything in this post from the last time we discussed the politics of harry potter

vyelkin posted:

Harry Potter is the neoliberal hero of a neoliberal story.

Reading between the lines you can see institutional corruption, a basically fascist society premised on wizard supremacy with an all-powerful authoritarian bureaucracy (the Minister for Magic is more powerful than the Prime Minister but is, as far as I remember, a completely unelected and unaccountable political figure) and a judicial system that barely deserves the name--single day, same-day trials with no lawyers or representation and no investigation of your crime unless you happen to be friends with Wizard Jesus who will intervene on your behalf, with punishments as severe as indefinite detention in the North Sea mind-rape prison where the prison guards eat your soul even if you're innocent. You barely have to look below the surface to see the fascist, pseudo-Nazi ideology of wizard supremacy baked into Slytherin House, which was foundational to the founder's personal ideology and which remains foundational to the ideology of many present-day Slytherins, who openly serve Wizard Hitler but are never punished for it because after the war wizard society valued reconciliation over deNazification.

Reading more, you see an insane class system that should be easily overcome since, as wizards, they could all be as rich or poor as they wanted to be, yet class and wealth continue to rule their lives and set individuals up for success or failure. Draco Malfoy is a huge gently caress-up but falls upwards because of his social class and wealth, while the Weasleys only overcome their poverty and lower-class status because of a very neoliberal sort of meritocracy: they're good wizards and so they can succeed anyway, the same way Hermione can overcome her non-wizard parentage by being individually talented. But if you're not a skilled wizard, like Hagrid wasn't, or if you have the extreme misfortune to be born without magical powers but within the magical world, like Mr. Filch, then you can be cast out of society and shunned forever and looked down upon by everyone else, again, unless Wizard Jesus intervenes to ensure you have a steady job. And even then, you remain the lowest class of people in society and everyone disdains you for being unable to do magic, or at best pities you for being an outcast. A picture-perfect neoliberal meritocracy allows good wizards to rise through the ranks of an archaic class society, but also condemns bad wizards to the lowest rungs of society, and that's fine. And this is before we even get to the legalized slavery of house elves, which is so normalized that when someone enters from the non-wizard world, who has grown up with an outside education and so recognizes slavery when she sees it and tries to start an abolitionist movement, her efforts are treated like a joke by the rest of the characters, who laugh at her and tell her that no, Hermione, house elves actually really love being enslaved.

Harry Potter never recognizes any of these systemic, institutional problems. This is partly because he, as an individual, benefits from his own privilege. He's absurdly wealthy thanks to inherited wealth from his dead parents, and he's a relatively talented wizard even though he has basically no work ethic and relies on cheating off his more talented friends to succeed a lot of the time. He benefits from the class system, he benefits from the neoliberal meritocracy, and he doesn't feel the problems of the fascist state or the wizard supremacism because most of the time he isn't on the receiving end of their horrific behaviour.

When problems do emerge, Harry Potter the character and Harry Potter the book series treat them as problems arising from individual failings, not from the incredibly toxic and harmful society the characters live in. Individual wizards can choose to be bad or good, and the problem is that some of them choose to be bad. Individual members of the fascist state bureaucracy can be mean and petty and evil, and it's a bad thing if those individuals rise to positions of power, but the authoritarian bureaucracy itself is seen as otherwise benign. The implicit message, which becomes more explicit by the end of the books, is that if you could just root out the evil individuals then this society would be fine. They can all keep oppressing people and exploiting people just as long as you get rid of Wizard Hitler and a few high-ranking wizard Nazis.

Harry Potter's decision to become a member of the Wizard FBI makes perfect sense within this framework. He sees the flaws in wizarding society not as part of the messed up institutional structure and authoritarianism inherent to the system, he sees the flaws as the fault of individual deviants, and so Harry Potter, Mr. Privilege himself, can think of nothing better to do with his time than to spend his days tracking down the deviants whose actions might threaten his life of comfort and privilege, and either killing them or arresting them to be indefinitely detained by the fascist judicial system.

Frankly, nobody should be surprised at who JK Rowling turned out to be. It was all right there on the page the whole time.

# ? Jun 30, 2021 14:20

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

vyelkin posted:

by far one of the funniest things about harry potter is that hogwarts is the only education they get

if you're wizard-born, you are homeschooled until age 10, then you go to hogwarts for seven years, graduate at age 17, and that's that

if you're muggle-born, you are in the regular british school system until age 10, then you go to hogwarts for seven years, graduate at age 17, and that's that

there is no primary or post-secondary education and everybody is dumb as poo poo and doesn't understand anything because if you didn't learn it in your seven years of high school you didn't learn it, and the only characters who seems to have a legitimate interest in educating themselves about a specialization that wasn't covered in school (Ron's dad) or about multiple subjects that are not course requirements (Hermione) are either treated as eccentric weirdos or giant nerds to be pitied

rowling definitely didn't intend this but all her worldbuilding points to wizards being some of the stupidest people alive, who would die of scurvy or traffic accidents in about twelve hours if you took away their magic because literally everything in their lives is based on being able to wave a wand and fix any random problems that come up (or ask your enslaved sentient creature to do the magic for you so you don't even have to wave the wand yourself), which means wizards never have to actually understand any problems in the first place

Which I suggest tells us all we need to know about why liberals love it. Ever try asking a liberal what causes someone to be a racist?

# ? Jun 30, 2021 14:21

Fitzy Fitz: May 14, 2005

I actually remember the moment my friend showed me harry potter when it was new. Kid me had no idea how pivotal my decision in that moment would be. I said "that looks like little kid stuff" and then we threw pinecones at each other or something.

# ? Jun 30, 2021 14:34

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

vyelkin posted:

oh and I stand by everything in this post from the last time we discussed the politics of harry potter

this is exactly the point the video I linked made. rowling (much like many other 90s writers) cant conceive of stuff outside of neoliberal democracy. even in a world of magic, you gotta have banks and shops and class

# ? Jun 30, 2021 14:39

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

Fitzy Fitz posted:

I actually remember the moment my friend showed me harry potter when it was new. Kid me had no idea how pivotal my decision in that moment would be. I said "that looks like little kid stuff" and then we threw pinecones at each other or something.

I was too busy reading lovely D&D Dragonlance novels

# ? Jun 30, 2021 14:41

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-highlight/22543858/isabel-fall-attack-helicopter

new article on this subject. I disagree with some of the journalists statements but it's worth reading (as is the short story)
also the article omits the 1988 reaction i've seen elsewhere, which is easily the most bad faith thing possible.

https://twitter.com/BrandyLJensen/status/1410225167670915073

mastershakeman has issued a correction as of 14:44 on Jun 30, 2021

# ? Jun 30, 2021 14:42

Toph Bei Fong: Feb 29, 2008

Harry Potter is, whether consciously or not, constructed and marketed to encourage speculation, and the author did a great job in attracting a certain type of person.

One of the things that harem anime/manga does is present a fantasy wherein a bland and generally featureless protagonist has adventures with a large number of young women. Each of these women is targeted to appeal to a certain type of person: there's the nerdy shy one with glasses, there's the rude one who dresses well, there's the athletic one... and so on and so on, to appeal to as wide a demographic as possible. And even though the ending is predetermined, and despite there being five to ten women, there's generally only one or two who are under any serious consideration by the author for who the protagonist ends up with at the end. But, to the target audience, it's an appealing fantasy, and there will generally be quite a lot of fan fiction wherein the protagonist gets with the "non-primary" girl of the fan fic author's preference.

Similarly, Harry Potter presents a fantasy wherein a bland protagonist gets to have adventures with his friends, live in a fun place where something interesting is happening all the time, everyone who matters likes him, and everything he does is correct. And, much like the "Which girl do you like best?" of harem anime, the "What house would you be a member of?" is primed for personal identification and internal fantasy or external fan fiction (ie. I wonder what it would be like if Ravenclaw was the primary house? What would I, a Hufflepuff, do in that situation? What if Harry Potter was, like me, a Very Rational Person?)

Detailed worlds like those in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time and Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive encourage this sort of gap filling, as one could conceivably want to be an Aes Sedai or whatever, whereas a book like Charles Jackson's The Lost Weekend or William Sloane's To Walk the Night don't really have room for that sort of speculation. Somewhat importantly, these imaginings are encouraged but not supported by the work itself. Rowling gives us barely any information about, say, Ravenclaw house politics or the inner workings of Gringott's Bank, which gives space for fans to fill in those gaps with whatever they think is most interesting. When the author does fill in those gaps, fans tend to react with anger and annoyance that their "theories" were not correct and/or their fanfiction is invalidated (leading in some cases to entirely different sets of books to be written, like Cassandra Claire's bizarre Draco Trilogy, which takes off after the 4th book and just does it's own thing at a length comparable to the official books 5-7).

Encouraging engagement with the work is not necessarily bad (ie. Nelly Bly's Ten Days in a Madhouse practically begs the reader to ask '"What if this happened to me? What if I were one of these people?"), but there's a big difference between trying to enact social change via empathy with the characters and trying to sell branded apparel that broadcasts the traits the wearer identifies with.

# ? Jun 30, 2021 16:09

Evrart Claire: Jan 11, 2008

Lib and let die posted:

I was too busy reading lovely D&D Dragonlance novels

which in the long run was probably for the best because I never saw them as anything but dumb fantasy books that were fun to read through and not something to get weirdly attached to

# ? Jun 30, 2021 16:12

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

theflyingexecutive posted:

filler? animorphs was a a series of body horror novels framed entirely within a narrative of child soldiers killing a body-snatching invasion force. they just never became popular enough for KA Applegate to deem herself to be too good for an editor

the plot was good but the books were like 100 pages long, 20 of which were copied exposition from previous books

# ? Jun 30, 2021 16:59

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

mastershakeman posted:

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-highlight/22543858/isabel-fall-attack-helicopter

new article on this subject. I disagree with some of the journalists statements but it's worth reading (as is the short story)
also the article omits the 1988 reaction i've seen elsewhere, which is easily the most bad faith thing possible.

https://twitter.com/BrandyLJensen/status/1410225167670915073

yeah there's no way to say "sucks for the author" without coming off weird but it really does

the story is definitely worth checking out

# ? Jun 30, 2021 17:02

Judakel: Jul 29, 2004; Can't post for 9 years!

literary twitter is filled with young adult and science fiction authors with a huge chip of their shoulders due to the fact their work is (mostly justifiably) considered poo poo. i am not surprised these mostly cis people attacked her work without even reading it and engaged in freeform association critiques of poo poo they didnt read

Judakel has issued a correction as of 17:54 on Jun 30, 2021

# ? Jun 30, 2021 17:30

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

i say swears online posted:

mister potter my name is emily, i'm from birmingham and i am twelve years old. please, my people yearn for magic

🙏

mastershakeman posted:

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-highlight/22543858/isabel-fall-attack-helicopter

new article on this subject. I disagree with some of the journalists statements but it's worth reading (as is the short story)
also the article omits the 1988 reaction i've seen elsewhere, which is easily the most bad faith thing possible.

https://twitter.com/BrandyLJensen/status/1410225167670915073

the original short story is actually poorly written and pretty boring but I like the fact that she took a giant loving swing and tore her achilles on the follow through. it�s a shame what happened to her cause of her stupidly-chosen title because we need more people trying to rip dingers in the sci fi short story format

# ? Jun 30, 2021 17:48

Dr. Killjoy: Oct 9, 2012

Sturgeon's Law motherfuckers! Knives out for anyone who could be producing the remaining 10%!

# ? Jun 30, 2021 17:54

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008

Good news!
https://twitter.com/IndieWire/status/1410078639270543364?s=19

# ? Jun 30, 2021 20:31

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

I will never squeam

# ? Jun 30, 2021 20:31

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

also how does it fall into third act messiness I thought it was a prequel

# ? Jun 30, 2021 20:32

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

indigi posted:

🙏

the original short story is actually poorly written and pretty boring but I like the fact that she took a giant loving swing and tore her achilles on the follow through. it�s a shame what happened to her cause of her stupidly-chosen title because we need more people trying to rip dingers in the sci fi short story format

the title is why anyone even read it, it wasnt stupid

# ? Jun 30, 2021 22:04

damn horror queefs: Oct 14, 2005; say hello
say hello to the man in the elevator

indigi posted:

I will never squeam

# ? Jun 30, 2021 22:35

Dr. Killjoy: Oct 9, 2012

i tried watching Captain Marvel but loving quit after it opens on her waking up in her spacious high rise apartment on an alien world

hundred plus million buckos on a move and that's the best you could do???

# ? Jun 30, 2021 23:04

Wraith of J.O.I.: Jan 25, 2012

eyyy i�m squeaming ovah heah

# ? Jun 30, 2021 23:05

DR FRASIER KRANG: Feb 4, 2005; "Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?

I'm a squeam queen

# ? Jun 30, 2021 23:08

uber_stoat: Jan 21, 2001; Pillbug

fully squeamed and loving it.

# ? Jun 30, 2021 23:39

Farm Frenzy: Jan 3, 2007

indigi posted:

also how does it fall into third act messiness I thought it was a prequel

i bet one billion dollars that they mean a big lovely battle scene that goes for an hour that you immediately forget

# ? Jul 1, 2021 00:18

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Officially got bored of people in costumes punching each other with varying levels of SONIC BOOM to indicate power in the middle of Winter Soldier.

# ? Jul 1, 2021 00:54

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 16:50

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

mastershakeman posted:

the title is why anyone even read it, it wasnt stupid

the title is why she caught so much undeserved poo poo that people are still dissecting it over a year later. maybe fewer readers is worth more mental health

# ? Jul 1, 2021 00:57

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Pop Culture] the theatrical cut removes the scene that sets up the orc race war

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