|
Mercury_Storm posted:"""cash equivalents""" Since this is digital we call it “vaporware.” Keep up, boomer! 
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 01:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 14:48 |
|
|
drk posted:Full BlockFi Cease and Desist Order is out: https://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases21/BlockFi-Cease-and-Desist-Order.pdf Perhaps the same could be said of all This is actually good for bitcoin because
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 01:50
|
|
|
Hobologist posted:Perhaps the same could be said of all The US government requires hedge fund investors to have at least $1,000,000 net worth specifically so they can wash their hands and say "lmao you obviously have the means to do your own homework, get reckt sucker" if they get scammed
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 02:05
|
|
|
It's worth noting that the standards for accredited investors were set in 1931.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 02:17
|
|
|
novamute posted:If it isn't interest bearing is it really a digitized bearer bond? Interest is not necessarily what makes a debt a debt, you can theoretically have loans and bonds with no interest. Why you would do that or want that is a good question, though. Regardless of how they want to describe it, at the end of the day, USDC and USDT purchasers are essentially giving zero-interest loans to Circle/Tether, but without any of the normal legal protections you'd find in a real-world loan agreement. And "Is this really a bearer bond?" is an excellent question that competent regulators should've already been asking. USDC and USDT walk like a duck and quack like a duck, and Circle and Tether clearly want you to act like it's a duck, with their PR teams' pledges that anyone* can swap a token for a dollar. But there's also no clear legal structure in place or any traditional debt agreement that governs repayment, and both companies' terms of service are deliberately murky. Circle avoids any use of words like "debt" or "bond" or "loan", but at least they acknowledge that "Sending USDC to another address automatically transfers and assigns [...] the right to redeem USDC for US Dollar funds" (which makes USDC seem a lot like a debt instrument to me!) Tether, on the other hand, flat out states that they have no legal obligation to redeem USDTs. Either way you answer that question, there are fundamental problems. If they are bearer bonds, in substance if not form, how is this not public issuance and trading of securities in violation of various securities laws? If they aren't effectively bearer bonds, then... what the hell are they, exactly, and why would anyone want to hold them?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 02:42
|
|
|
It should be noted that the maximum interest rate paid by BlockFi on Bitcoin and Ethereum is 4% (on the first approximately $10k of either).  Its not even particularly lucrative for their customers. Sadly one of my friends has a bunch of "assets" in one of these accounts, and is completely dismissive of the risks 
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 02:48
|
|
|
happyhippy posted:I remember some stories where the bitcoiner would beg the owner to keep it there and let them use the electricity for free I'm sure, given bitcoiners, that most if not all of those ATMs were leeching power to mine.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 03:34
|
|
|
Blotto_Otter posted:Interest is not necessarily what makes a debt a debt, you can theoretically have loans and bonds with no interest. Why you would do that or want that is a good question, though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking_and_finance
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 04:14
|
|
|
Blotto_Otter posted:If they are bearer bonds, in substance if not form, how is this not public issuance and trading of securities in violation of various securities laws? If they aren't effectively bearer bonds, then... what the hell are they, exactly, and why would anyone want to hold them? Issuers want you to believe they are in some odd superposition of being both non-regulatable securities* and also just as trustworthy as regulated securities or other regulated financial instruments. As to why anyone would want to hold them? Obviously: crimin'. Some of it is just small time tax evasion, some of it is certainly more serious. Ransomware is an obvious example, since its trivial to launder other cryptocurrencies into stablecoins. *coiners want regulations of the "catch the guy who rug pulled us and get our money back" kind, not the "you need a name and address to open this account" kind or the "no, this is not a legitimate investment, so cut it out" kind.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 04:41
|
|
|
more like buttcoin
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 04:55
|
|
|
I'd been curious how Islamic financing would approach crypto, and haven't been able to muster the effort to explore it. The workarounds to not charging interest were interesting, as I recall. Been a while, though, and I'm not feeling a store of  to invest in enlightening myself further right now.With my admittedly (very) limited grasp on various approaches to Islamic theology, I think I could argue Bitocin was acceptable, but could also argue it was unacceptable, because it's not like a clear and defined (or rational) thing anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 06:10
|
|
|
Well, the problem is that it seems Islamic banking has rules against gambling and speculation which is 100% what cryptocurrency is about, because there is 0 intrinsic value.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 06:20
|
|
|
CaptainSarcastic posted:I'd been curious how Islamic financing would approach crypto, and haven't been able to muster the effort to explore it. The workarounds to not charging interest were interesting, as I recall. Been a while, though, and I'm not feeling a store of I don't remember the specifics, but years ago early in the first bitcointalk days there was a sizable "Islamic finance via bitcoin" movement on those forums, part misguided lenders, part scammers pretending to be muslims, and part usual astroturfing by corners who wanted any avenue to drive adoption (just like the el salvador pushers) No idea if it died out completely or not Edit: the only reason id even heard of Islamic banking was the bitcoin community's failed inroads to the sector
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 06:23
|
|
|
I'm thinking about minting this as an NFT. It would be pretty poggers I think. Anyone interested in purchasing it? https://www.tiktok.com/embed/6803451075920776454 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 11:48
|
|
|
salt shakeup posted:I'm thinking about minting this as an NFT. It would be pretty poggers I think. Anyone interested in purchasing it? Why the gently caress is this the Zeitgeist right now? I've been on the internet since the early 90s and I'm now too old to get it
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 11:57
|
|
|
Go for it, imo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 12:02
|
|
|
Why is 30k the magic number for bitcoin again?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 12:16
|
|
|
text editor posted:I don't remember the specifics, but years ago early in the first bitcointalk days there was a sizable "Islamic finance via bitcoin" movement on those forums, part misguided lenders, part scammers pretending to be muslims, and part usual astroturfing by corners who wanted any avenue to drive adoption (just like the el salvador pushers) Libertarians and the right at large are bad at false flags and astroturfing because they can only pretend to be people they loathe for so long
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 12:17
|
|
|
Mooseontheloose posted:Why is 30k the magic number for bitcoin again? Bitcoin was at 29k at the start of the year. So all the folks who got their stimmies and then bought in paid at least that much. Some paid much (much) more, but they all paid at least that amount. Thus, once it gets below that price, everyone who joined in the rush is losing. Since 30k is a nice, round number, that has become the big marker instead of $29k.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 12:49
|
|
|
drk posted:Issuers want you to believe they are in some odd superposition of being both non-regulatable securities* and also just as trustworthy as regulated securities or other regulated financial instruments. It isn't just crime, for a lot of people the stablecoins serve the same function as tokens in a casino. The entire crypto ecosystem right now is split. There's the crime side which is the only area where actual transactions for what could be considered goods and services happen and then there's the speculative side which is essentially Bitconnect all over again but "distributed" this time. Biconnect for those that need a refresher or who were smart enough to not subject their brain cells to crypto bullshit at the time was a Ponzi scheme that operated like this: You would buy some bitconnect coins that in themselves didn't gain value but which you could transfer into the bitconnect platform. In that platform you could "invest" your bitconnect coins into various funds. The funds used special algorithms (that nobody was allowed to see) to consistently produce rather impressive returns. You could then sell your bitconnect coins to get actual dollars back, but why would you ever do that when you could keep "investing" them to reliably print money at essentially zero risk?!? Oh wait turns out that the investment returns were almost entirely funded by new people buying newly issued bitconnect coins and when there weren't enough coming in the whole thing imploded, whoopsie doodle! Well surely that can't happen this time with DeFi stuff, you see USDC is completely different from bitconnect coins and a huge array of shady companies which promise oddly high returns for letting them hold your USDC coins because they know how to make money with them is completely different than a platform of magic algorithm "investments".
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 13:43
|
|
|
lol https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/mastercard-to-test-usdc-for-payments-as-stablecoin-scrutiny-intensifies-2021-07-20
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 13:52
|
|
|
Lmao Wasnt MasterCard like the mr pibb of credit cards I’m amazed they are still around but not surprised they pulled a kodakcoin
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 13:55
|
|
|
starkebn posted:Why the gently caress is this the Zeitgeist right now? I've been on the internet since the early 90s and I'm now too old to get it they're the man now dog
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 14:34
|
|
|
shame on an IGA posted:lol quote:While it might sound like adding an extra step, swapping a cryptocurrency for a stablecoin and then exchanging the stablecoin for dollars can be quicker or simpler than going directly from crypto to fiat. For example, some cryptos cannot be easily traded on an exchange for dollars but can be for USDC. Adding this way station will assist cryptocurrency firms that want to offer Mastercard-branded products to their customers, the company said. quote:“Today not all crypto companies have the foundational infrastructure to convert cryptocurrency to traditional fiat currency, and we’re making it easier,” said Raj Dhamodharan, Mastercard’s executive vice president of digital asset and blockchain products, in a press release.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 15:06
|
|
|
See, the best way to reach the unbanked is to get a bank, add a few payment processors, smear a layer of wholly unregulated opaque illegality on it, and BAM you're no longer unbanked.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 15:42
|
|
|
be your own unbank
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 15:44
|
|
|
*nodding* I see unbank is just like All Rights Reversed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 16:02
|
|
|
I've never understood what butters are aiming for with "banking the unbanked". If I'm a subsistence farmer in a 2nd/3rd world country, being able to access a bank account isn't going to do poo poo for me because I'm already dirt poor and don't have any money to keep in a bank account anyways.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 16:13
|
|
|
So I guess the difference between USDC and USDT is that tether once claimed that USDT was backed by actual dollars, while USDC is from the beginning almost exclusively backed by... itself and collateralized debt obligations from the 2008 crash and everyone is somehow cool with this again
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 16:18
|
|
|
Beached Whale posted:I've never understood what butters are aiming for with "banking the unbanked". If I'm a subsistence farmer in a 2nd/3rd world country, being able to access a bank account isn't going to do poo poo for me because I'm already dirt poor and don't have any money to keep in a bank account anyways. 'The unbanked' they talk about are usually people who A: are insane moonbats who don't trust banks unless they're behind a dozen layers of scam and buzzwords, or 2: people who the banks don't trust because they are untrustworthy and are constantly scamming and spouting buzzwords
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 16:30
|
|
|
Beached Whale posted:I've never understood what butters are aiming for with "banking the unbanked". If I'm a subsistence farmer in a 2nd/3rd world country, being able to access a bank account isn't going to do poo poo for me because I'm already dirt poor and don't have any money to keep in a bank account anyways. But if you're way into suckling the teat of capitalism and demand the whole world do so then a system of savings and money transfer is a means to the end of accessing the entire modern financial system which has a number of financial leveling opportunities (and/or ways to be further oppressed) through modern financing, insurance, and securities markets (like getting access to futures markets for commodities they already produce and get raked over seasonally for or for incorporating business as something that can be exchanged). The disconnects here are the developing world often has decent access to SMS network banks and microlending without needing a Bitcoin intermediary, and the protectionist tinpot regimes dedicated to keeping their people from being fully enveloped in the global specter of capitalism have systemic protection in place from really benefitting from modern financial products so at best you're going to get some simple forex markets partly opened.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 16:33
|
|
|
I did it, I managed to spend my bitcoins!! I found a store offering filament for 3d printing, I couldn't believe it. Everything except  If you also live in Germany and want to get rid of bitcoins, here's a map of companies accepting them:  No, it won't show more markers if you zoom in.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 16:36
|
|
|
Currency of the future!
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 16:42
|
|
|
suh won't you please accept my collateralized debtcoins, my previous investment in ron paul dollars didn't work out
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
Beached Whale posted:I've never understood what butters are aiming for with "banking the unbanked". If I'm a subsistence farmer in a 2nd/3rd world country, being able to access a bank account isn't going to do poo poo for me because I'm already dirt poor and don't have any money to keep in a bank account anyways. it's just an attempt to promote bitcoin by claiming it will solve problems (real or perceived) with the existing banking system.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 16:52
|
|
|
stinch posted:it's just an attempt to promote bitcoin by claiming it will solve problems (real or perceived) with the existing banking system. You know you have a winner when they suggest buying into the varied and illegal financial products available only through crypto.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 17:07
|
|
|
RabbitWizard posted:I did it, I managed to spend my bitcoins!! I found a store offering filament for 3d printing, I couldn't believe it. Everything except Frankfurt because finance, Dresden and Leipzig because hipster, but Mannheim? Because of its proximity to Frankfurt?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 17:12
|
|
|
busalover posted:Frankfurt because finance, Dresden and Leipzig because hipster, but Mannheim? Because of its proximity to Frankfurt? That's a Natural Food Store, so also Hipster? And to be fair, I found out about the other store from a list containing over 100 entries! Written in 2018.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 17:19
|
|
|
Blotto_Otter posted:Interest is not necessarily what makes a debt a debt, you can theoretically have loans and bonds with no interest. Why you would do that or want that is a good question, though. Because usury is sinful. وَمَا آتَيْتُم مِّن رِّبًا لِّيَرْبُوَ فِي أَمْوَالِ النَّاسِ فَلَا يَرْبُو عِندَ اللَّهِ وَمَا آتَيْتُم مِّن زَكَاةٍ تُرِيدُونَ وَجْهَ اللَّهِ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْمُضْعِفُونَ
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 17:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 14:48 |
|
|
CaptainSarcastic posted:I'd been curious how Islamic financing would approach crypto, and haven't been able to muster the effort to explore it. The workarounds to not charging interest were interesting, as I recall. Been a while, though, and I'm not feeling a store of The funny thing is that it appears the Islamic world solved the problems crypto tried to address centuries ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2021 17:45
|
|