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Jay Rust posted:I’ve been trying to up my game a little, and part of this means understanding unit stats and making cool armies. But I’m having some trouble evaluating the little guys, and it might help if I ask: what is a “good” amount of melee attack? Or melee defence? When is weapon strength more important than melee attack? What is a “good” amount of weapon strength? Here's a good website for stats: https://twwstats.com . You can just click around here and compare units. I categorize melee attack and defense as follows: 1-10: essentialy non-combatants. artillery crews 10s: chaff 20s: lowtier unit 30s: good 40s: very good 50s: elite (not many regular units have MA in the 50s) 60s: the best (only things like ironbreakers and chosen have MD in the 60s) 70+: only certain heroes and lords have this by default It's very important to pay attention to bonus vs. infantry and bonus vs. large, because they add to both melee attack AND weapon damage, and some units have huge bonuses, bumping them up a whole tier against their target unit.
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Jul 27, 2021 04:34
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Thank you for the answers! This is great
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Jul 27, 2021 04:49
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A small thing but pay attention to the little figure next to the unit size number, it took me too long to realize those show if they are small or large units
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Jul 27, 2021 05:08
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charge bonus is the other thing that comes up. you add the charge bonus to the weapon strength and MA of every model that charges, for like ten or fifteen seconds or so after a charge. one stat that is not displayed but can be important is the attack speed. but i think the only way it really matters or is noticeable is, halberds attack slower/less frequently than swordsmen.
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Jul 27, 2021 05:12
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:charge bonus is the other thing that comes up. you add the charge bonus to the weapon strength and MA of every model that charges, for like ten or fifteen seconds or so after a charge. Yeah I don't know if that gets calculated or whatever, but fast attacking infantry (so basically things without spears) that also have the anti-infantry trait will rip apart enemy line infantry.
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Jul 27, 2021 06:33
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chaleski posted:A small thing but pay attention to the little figure next to the unit size number, it took me too long to realize those show if they are small or large units Yeah this is easy to misunderstand: 'Anti Large' will do more damage and hit more often against 'Large' units, 'Anti Infantry' will do more damage and hit more often against 'Small' units. You might think 'anti infantry' attacks would be good against a 'monstrous infantry' unit but this is not the case because 'monstrous infantry' are Large, not Small
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Jul 27, 2021 06:53
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:charge bonus is the other thing that comes up. you add the charge bonus to the weapon strength and MA of every model that charges, for like ten or fifteen seconds or so after a charge. Huh always wondered how unbuffed ork boys managed so much against my roided out dwarf warriors with near 60's MD when their MA was only in the 30s but after adding the charge it makes sense. Never got why halberds got such a raw deal, they're supposed to be the end all melee combatant that's completely negated by range fire. How's that TT mod that changed spears to be offensive and sword+shield to be defensive? I never understood why a sharpened spear was worse at piercing armor compared to a shorter, wider sword tip haha. Just like how all axes aren't super AP which realistically axes could puncture some plate armor--woulda fit dawi perfectly, slower attack speed than a sword but it'd gently caress you up once it landed. Axes unless dual wielded would be the new halberds and thus you'd never want to grind against axe infantry because unless it was finished quickly they'd come out on top.
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Jul 27, 2021 07:18
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There are so many offensive and defensive factors in the game that it is nearly impossible for one type of unit to excel against everything. Infantry are vulnerable to ranged, ranged are vulnerable to calvary, calvary are vulnerable to anti-large infantry. Ethereal units are strong against anything without magic damage but weak against any sort of magic damage. High DMG aoe spells are super strong against massed infantry but are useless against single entity monsters. Single entity monsters are strong against either infantry or other single entity monsters, but are weak against ranged units. The unit archetype with arguably the fewest counters are high range, high arc, high AP missile units like Sisters of Averlorn or Waywatchers, but they are limited by their low ammo, so they are unable to take on multiple stacks by themselves. The one nearly invincible offensive stat is -leadership, stacks of heroes with -leadership traits such as Nurgles Foul Stink for Beastmean, Pompous for Lizardmen, Dread Incarnate for Undead factions can route unlimited number of troops, but it is incredibly hard to build such a stack and they can technically be defeated by a full stack of unbreakable units (or two).
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Jul 27, 2021 07:47
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One thing I've been thinking about, is how effective magic damage weapons (melee, ranged - not spells) are against units with built-in magic resistance. The conventional wisdom seems to be that magic weapons are bad against dwarf units, but isn't it true that magic weapons ignore armor, which most dwarf units have a lot of?
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Jul 27, 2021 08:17
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Azram Legion posted:One thing I've been thinking about, is how effective magic damage weapons (melee, ranged - not spells) are against units with built-in magic resistance. The conventional wisdom seems to be that magic weapons are bad against dwarf units, but isn't it true that magic weapons ignore armor, which most dwarf units have a lot of? Magic weapons do not ignore armor.
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Jul 27, 2021 08:33
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Vargs posted:Magic weapons do not ignore armor. Huh, so does that mean they are only really effective against ethereal units or units with high physical resist?
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Jul 27, 2021 08:37
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Azram Legion posted:One thing I've been thinking about, is how effective magic damage weapons (melee, ranged - not spells) are against units with built-in magic resistance. The conventional wisdom seems to be that magic weapons are bad against dwarf units, but isn't it true that magic weapons ignore armor, which most dwarf units have a lot of? No, magic weapons ignore physical resistance. Most notably this lets you annihilate ghostly units easily as they tend to have 0 armour but really high physical resist (75% or so) although other units and heroes and lords can have lesser amounts of physical resistance.
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Jul 27, 2021 08:56
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Azram Legion posted:Huh, so does that mean they are only really effective against ethereal units or units with high physical resist? Yes. In general units with native magic damage have high AP but it isn't a trait of the magic weapons, just the unit. The various weapon damage modifiers generally don't do much except in very specific situations (fire vs units with regeneration, magic vs ethereal units). I think in WH3 they are making it so that magic weapons dont lose effectiveness against magic resist, but iirc will make magic resistance apply to debuff duration.
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Jul 27, 2021 11:35
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One of my favorite experiences was a stack of 18 sisters of avelorn which had taken over almost all of Ulthuan encountering an army of about three phoenixes and four dragon princes amid some spearmen. just getting hard countered by a big dick AI, it was hilarious
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Jul 27, 2021 14:55
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My impression, which I’m open to being wrong about, is that magical attacks are generally an upgrade, because physical resistance is both more common and tends higher than magic resistance. And as has been mentioned it tends to be attached to things that have good melee attack, damage, and/or AP. In game 3, they’re changing magic resistance to only affect spells, so that’ll make magic weapon damage more valuable.
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Jul 27, 2021 16:19
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If your units do fire damage, that damage will be subject to the target's full fire resistance. As Zerkovich found out when he put the RoR dragon princes (70% fire resist) against the RoR chaos knights, which resulted in the former killing all of the latter while basically taking no damage at all.
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Jul 27, 2021 16:24
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Dr Christmas posted:My impression, which I’m open to being wrong about, is that magical attacks are generally an upgrade, because physical resistance is both more common and tends higher than magic resistance. And as has been mentioned it tends to be attached to things that have good melee attack, damage, and/or AP. It really depends on what you're fighting. If you're expecting to fight dwarfs a lot, you'd be better off with physical. I think helves might have a lot of magic resist too, but I might be confusing with them resisting fire a lot (which they definitely do).
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Jul 27, 2021 16:28
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:iirc I watched this video and it gave a lot of good info on how stats work: https://youtu.be/GTEq1GdRVmU Zerk's channel is pretty good and was the resource I ended up using a lot when I was brand new to Total War Warhammer and was struggling to beat easy. I was so bad I was getting worse results than autoresolve most fights. He's got quite a few vids on basic tactics and controls stuff too. LOTW recently took a break from nebbishly cheesing the gently caress out of Legendary to put together something that is actually informative for the playerbase about how different resistances and damage types interact with each other - I found the section on armor to be mostly new to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLluhYzA82E&t=4s Here's a snapshot of his flowchart for damage types. Basically start at the top w/ "is this attack physical or magical" then work your way down to find what resistances are applies to what. Armour works by applying a damage reduction % value to the BASE (non armour-piercing) damage. The reduction is randomly picked from a range of 50% of the unit's armour up to 100%. All reductions (including armour damage reduction) has a cap of 90% damage reduction. https://gyazo.com/9e44c2122546ec4ce2eaa837c147df78
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Jul 27, 2021 17:01
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So sure enough, CA just announced a big new DLC for Troy to coincide with its Steam release on September 2. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1553061/A_Total_War_Saga_TROY__Mythos/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0ODWEcjpBQ Ironically, it looks to bring Troy closer to Total Warhammer with actual monstrous units, but more importantly, it confirms the reason for the llack of any TWW3 news for the rest of the summer.
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Jul 27, 2021 17:22
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This just looks the way I expected troy to be from the outset tbh. Was disappointed that there was nothing magical in a game based on mythology. Edit: the next non ham total war I'll play will be medieval or shogun 3. Whichever happens first.
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Jul 27, 2021 17:46
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That cerberus model is a dead ringer for having the same skeleton as an eventual chaos chimera model in Warhammer
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Jul 27, 2021 18:12
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Mordja posted:So sure enough, CA just announced a big new DLC for Troy to coincide with its Steam release on September 2. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1553061/A_Total_War_Saga_TROY__Mythos/ Tbf, in their last WH3 blogpost, they said “hey we have other things in the works we’ll talk about” and since they killed 3K, Troy is the only other thing available to talk about and the Epic release was a year ago in August. Since the day after that blogpost, the community seemed to have put 2 and 2 together to figure out the timeline. Next Warhams news will be mid-September, which means the CA slate is otherwise clear and they have +\- 2 months to blitz WH3 information. I personally think we’ll have more than the typical “Tuesday Newsday” post. They’ll be building hype for pre-orders hard. Wild to think it’s a matter of a few months before I stop playing WH2 for good. I’m somewhere north of 2300 hours played.
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Jul 27, 2021 18:39
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I'm hoping they take a page from Stellaris for game 3's late game and lean into the Chaos Invasion while also adding other major events that could happen, if they can find a way to make them not suck. Stuff like a Skaven invasion from under ground, a Great Waaagh!, or other things that spice things up. There were mods for this. You would either get one crisis at random, you could get multiple crisis popping up over time and you could get a crisis by doing certain things like a specific faction conquering a specific settlement. Not sure if they've been updated to the new patch though. Elukka posted:On the note of cavalry, what should I be looking for in terms of stats for cavalry that's good against other cavalry? Do I just want the best shock cavalry like I want against infantry? Nowadays? Bring the lightest, fastest infantry unit you can get and counter charge cavalry units. They're currently, bizarrely, bad at fighting anything. In normal conditions, it depends on the enemy. Against heavy infantry, bring armor piercing, anti large cavalry units (so, against chaos, vampire counts or empire for example). Against skrmish troops, either bring your own skirmishers, or something fast enough to catch them. The word of order is, of course, the anti large Perk. A lot of cavalry units are built to smash infantry, you'll want something dedicated to fight these units of they come in good number.
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Jul 27, 2021 19:48
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I'm starting a mortal empires campaign as vampire counts and its fun to immediately push mannfred out of his house, but Zhufbar is a tough nut to crack initially. Two stacks of quarellers and great weapon warriors is a lot to handle even for vlad/Isabella stack with early game VC troops
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Jul 27, 2021 19:53
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Vamps really need to lean on their incredible heroes and whatever elite units they can squeeze out of big battle markers (until they get free skeletons, then it's heroes and 9000 skeleton bricks.) As a rule, only your vampires really matter. The rest is expendable and replaceable.
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Jul 27, 2021 20:02
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wiegieman posted:As a rule, only your vampires really matter. The rest is expendable and replaceable.
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Jul 27, 2021 21:13
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Hey now, Wight Kings and Banshees (if you ever get more than one LOL) would like a word! Also Necromancers help a lot with the skellie boi bricks You don't get a 70% discount on Necros, though I'll grant that more raise dead casts makes for a heck of a party.
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Jul 27, 2021 21:34
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wiegieman posted:You don't get a 70% discount on Necros, though I'll grant that more raise dead casts makes for a heck of a party.
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Jul 27, 2021 21:39
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This seems like a weird bug: Started a new Vortex Skryre. About 20 turns in I get a message that an undercity has been found in MY city. Except it's in a city not controlled by me. I not only have the ability to demolish the undercity, but I also have control over it as if it belonged to me. It's owned by an NPC faction I have a defensive alliance with. 
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Jul 27, 2021 21:52
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Sanzuo posted:This seems like a weird bug: Is there a chance they planted the undercity before you made an alliance with them? Otherwise it might be the building that let's undercities burrow into other settlements. As for controlling the undercity, that's a new one.
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Jul 27, 2021 22:14
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I’ve had an undercity appear in a settlement I owned, which I then subsequently lost. And I was still able to burn the city down from the building UI
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Jul 27, 2021 22:53
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Sometimes I'm able to drag unit cards into the order I want to deploy them and quickly set up formations. Other times the units are placed randomly despite how the cards are ordered. What causes this to happen?
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Jul 27, 2021 23:23
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Selecting them by clicking the cards, or clicking the units on the map, respectively.
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Jul 27, 2021 23:27
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Flakey posted:Selecting them by clicking the cards, or clicking the units on the map, respectively. I always click on the cards, sometimes it still doesn't work and I wish I knew why.
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Jul 27, 2021 23:58
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Arcsquad12 posted:Is there a chance they planted the undercity before you made an alliance with them? Otherwise it might be the building that let's undercities burrow into other settlements. As for controlling the undercity, that's a new one. I wondered if being in an alliance granted me access. It was also strange that it was so developed. I didn't have much time to experiment because it disappeared as mysteriously as it appeared a few turns later.
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Jul 27, 2021 23:59
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KPC_Mammon posted:I always click on the cards, sometimes it still doesn't work and I wish I knew why. Reordering the cards and dragging the units in a line works during deployment but does not once the battle starts if I remember right - also any of the units being in a group breaks the functionality as well.
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Jul 28, 2021 00:11
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Is there any mod that allows you to buy dread with favour as the Beastmen? It's late game, I'm swimming in favour but it's largely useless since for Beastmen, the limiting factor is how much dread you have.
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Jul 28, 2021 00:37
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Ragingsheep posted:Is there any mod that allows you to buy dread with favour as the Beastmen? It's late game, I'm swimming in favour but it's largely useless since for Beastmen, the limiting factor is how much dread you have. I never had enough favor in my campaign, it can be spent on absurdly powerful items that make your lords and heroes the best in the game. You can craft multiple copies of each item.
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Jul 28, 2021 00:41
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wiegieman posted:Vamps really need to lean on their incredible heroes and whatever elite units they can squeeze out of big battle markers (until they get free skeletons, then it's heroes and 9000 skeleton bricks.) I've been running an isabella army in very hard that's only things that she gives benefits to: 6 vampires with dogs and bats and vargheists for support. No infantry or standard cavalry. It works ridiculously well. I go down melee line before magic line to get their regen and boost survivability, so that I can just drop all 6 heroes into the main enemy force and have them hack it to pieces while the supporting beasts hunt down all the ranged mobs. Later on when they have more experience all the buff and debuff spells make a huge difference.
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Jul 28, 2021 00:46
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KPC_Mammon posted:I never had enough favor in my campaign, it can be spent on absurdly powerful items that make your lords and heroes the best in the game. That doesn't get me more Minotaurs.
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Jul 28, 2021 00:56
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