|
Who the hell is trying to get a 6 month contract to hire job as a senior/lead engineer? Like as a intern/junior engineer I know you have no choice but as a lead software enginerer?
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2021 21:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 15:06 |
|
|
huhu posted:Who the hell is trying to get a 6 month contract to hire job as a senior/lead engineer? Like as a intern/junior engineer I know you have no choice but as a lead software enginerer? they want to get a butt in a seat and try to figure out if the person is any good. they also might have immediate budget (and need) that can only be spent on contractors, although that's much less likely than basically doing a probationary period. Run away.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 03:07
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:they want to get a butt in a seat and try to figure out if the person is any good. they also might have immediate budget (and need) that can only be spent on contractors, although that's much less likely than basically doing a probationary period. they also either dont know anything about the market or are ignoring the market based upon bone headed management ideology, so run away~~~~~~
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 03:26
|
|
|
contracts suck poo poo. don't do them unless you have to
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 07:42
|
|
|
I'm not acitively looking for a new job since I'm quite happy where I am, but I always reply to recruiters that contact me on linkedin just in case they have something real good on offer. Also to be polite, never know when I could be unemployed and need them etc. But today I had a dumb interaction.
I've never interacted with a recruiter trying to fill dev roles that just flat out refuse to send out some sort of initial "hook" to get attention. What is the point here? Is it just data/CV harvesting or what?
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 10:03
|
|
|
Xik posted:
Freelance recruiters are wildly incompetent for the most part. >95%.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 12:13
|
|
|
Yup. Little of column A, little of column B. I’ve stopped being polite with them. They start getting respect once they demonstrate a baseline competence.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 12:25
|
|
|
Some recruiters are also graded on how many people they get on the phone.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 13:49
|
|
|
PokeJoe posted:contracts suck poo poo. don't do them unless you have to also "contract to hire" gigs often never get around to the "...to hire" part of their description so never ever count of that happening
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 13:57
|
|
|
I've had multiple contracts that ran over a year so it can be a decent way to work provided you're getting extra money to make up for the lack of benefits [mainly pto, most contract agencies have decent medical/401k, etc. nowadays] and you actually take some time off which can be hard when missing a day of work literally costs you hundreds of dollars
qirex fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Aug 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 16:26
|
|
|
i do a bit of contract work making decent (though not great) money on the side, and the real upside there is that i can be a bit picky about the causes i support. currently one for (state, public) medical research and one in environmentally conscious energy trading (pricing environmental effects)
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 16:30
|
|
|
you understand the recruiting business when you realize that recruiters have more turnover than mcdonalds cooks
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 16:36
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:you understand the recruiting business when you realize that recruiters have more turnover than mcdonalds cooks it's this when i decided i wanted to talk to google, every single recruiter in my email history's address bounced. i ended up getting a name from a friend who'd been hit up at the 0g recruiting thing at defcon and luckily that one worked out
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
so i told work this morning that i've decided to accept the offer and now i've got meetings with the GM and VP.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 20:14
|
|
|
I now have a 5th boss. New boss is a mini-me of my previous boss. I talked them into me working 3 days a week for 3/5th my salary. I'm roadtripping now so I'll have lots more time for national parks and such. I also have 2 interviews this week and 1 next week.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 06:27
|
|
|
FMguru posted:yeah. the only times you should be considering contracting are 1) youre running out of money and need a job NOW, or 2) youre changing careers and/or industries and really need a foot in the door. otherwise, keep looking until you land a proper full-time job funny how different this is in europe. contracting/consulting as a independent contractor with my own company I can easily 2-3x my take home money compared to being hired. plus I can expense computer stuff, conferences, services
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 07:44
|
|
|
Kernel Sanders posted:funny how different this is in europe. contracting/consulting as a independent contractor with my own company I can easily 2-3x my take home money compared to being hired. plus I can expense computer stuff, conferences, services In Denmark it's the way to go if you want to make your actual top salary. I went from 475k DKK yearly to ~1000k DKK by this one weird trick.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 07:59
|
|
|
im in the middle of negotiating for a new position. salary sounds like its at or just above my expectations (never say a number first lol) and i think signing bonus is going to cover my unvested stock plus some, but i have no idea what to ask for in terms of stock at the new place. whats customary to ask for? my current place gave me a paltry amount (it was like $1k worth, vested over 4 years lmao) and then other grants were tacked on based on project performance over the years. I haven't ever had stock be part of my regular compensation package, but the potential new place is a much bigger company than ive worked for before. figgieland prime, engineering but not software.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 08:11
|
|
|
champagne posting posted:In Denmark it's the way to go if you want to make your actual top salary. I went from 475k DKK yearly to ~1000k DKK by this one weird trick. same here, but SEK  it’s so easy too, once I’m done with an assignment I send out 1 email to a few contractor brokers I like to work with and within a week or two I have a new 12 month contract.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 08:22
|
|
|
Kernel Sanders posted:same here, but SEK  but Danish companies can only handle 3 month contracts because of bean counters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 09:33
|
|
|
doesnt 25-35% self employment tax + paying for your own retirement benefits (hopefully at least 15%) make that jump in salary less impactful (but not 0)?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 10:11
|
|
|
fullt loaded cost for a 600kSEK salary in Sweden translates to roughly 400-450SEK/hour. going rate for a good contractor is 900SEK per hour. if you run an llc you (which you really should) you can pay yourself a nice chunk as dividends to a capital gains tax rate.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 10:44
|
|
|
my post was all included pension and all I doubt I'll ever be a salaried employee every again.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 10:51
|
|
|
Kernel Sanders posted:if you run an llc you (which you really should) you can pay yourself a nice chunk as dividends to a capital gains tax rate. nice 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 11:01
|
|
|
champagne posting posted:my post was all included pension and all so... how does that work exactly? are you a company of one?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 11:37
|
|
|
Workaday Wizard posted:so... how does that work exactly? are you a company of one? presumably so, i am and it is pretty common. there's both fairly light "personal" companies (i believe this is the case in all of scandinavia at least) for the purpose, but it is not that rare to do something with proper limited liability for this stuff. good since you can get hosed over a bit on software, even with appropriate insurance. plus some tax advantages at the cost of a bit more admin (not very hard either way though, as a one-man software outfit it is not like you'll have inventory or relevant depreciating assets or such stuff which otherwise make things messy). Cybernetic Vermin fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Aug 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 11:42
|
|
|
Workaday Wizard posted:so... how does that work exactly? are you a company of one? Yes and no. I have a company form called Enkeltmandsvirksomhed, lit. Single Person Company, where my person and company aren't really seperate, but kinda are. I have company finances seperate from my own (although this is a choice if you want to make loads of money) but I'm liable for the company. Seeing as I sell consulting services there's not a lot if any liability, I mean I create whatever the customer asks for, and it's free to have this company form. Really the company exists to handle the money, pay VAT, that sort of thing. As a private citizen I cannot charge money and pass VAT to my customers, but my company which is only barely separate from me can. If I wanted to hire someone I absolutely can so the name is a little misleading. The huge benefit for me as a Dane is that I can pay myself from my company accounts, a salary if you will, up until the edge of my tax bracket. Income up until 544k DKK is taxed at some 44%, anything above is taxed at an additional 15%. By not paying myself more than 544k and stuffing the rest in the company account I don't have to pay as many taxes on the money, just company tax at 22% which is deducted when I pay out as salary, and have that cash for a rainy day. There are alternative company forms, a limited liability company (anpartsselskab [Aps]) which is basically one or more owners but requires a capital injection into the company account at company creation of 45k and has a yearly running cost of some 5k (according to my accountant). Alternatively / alternatively you can have a aktieselskaber (A/S, couldn't find a translation), which requires a board of directors, more paperwork and a capital liquidity of 450k at time of creation and a running cost of loads.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 12:03
|
|
|
champagne posting posted:Seeing as I sell consulting services there's not a lot if any liability, I mean I create whatever the customer asks for, and it's free to have this company form. careful with this. i witnessed another contractor run his machine against the production database for a entire day and loving up a bunch customer data. you do NOT want to be personally responsible at this point, insurance or not. champagne posting posted:
huh, that’s odd. sweden is more or less 100% aktiebolag, we have a different/simplified set of rules as long as your revenue is below 3MSEK and you have less than 3 employees. capital liquidity was just lowered to 25kSEK as well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 12:13
|
|
|
Workaday Wizard posted:so... how does that work exactly? are you a company of one? exactly. the logistics for a company to bring in another company to do work is orders of magnitude simpler (and cheaper operations wise) than hiring. the nordics are filled with one-man llc’s, usually devs with 10+ years exp. you also have contracting brokers who do all the selling and legal legwork and take a 10% cut of your invoicing. it’s a good deal because they’re good at negotiating and usually get better rates than beep boop developers would manage to negotiate. just the fact of not having to do any sales is well worth the 10%
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 12:18
|
|
|
Kernel Sanders posted:exactly. the logistics for a company to bring in another company to do work is orders of magnitude simpler (and cheaper operations wise) than hiring. my brokers add 10-20% on the top which is funny when you’re at a client through a broker, through a broker, through a broker
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 12:22
|
|
|
Kernel Sanders posted:careful with this. i witnessed another contractor run his machine against the production database for a entire day and loving up a bunch customer data. you do NOT want to be personally responsible at this point, insurance or not. I have a clause put in my contract, usually by the broker, that I'm not liable unless there's a case of me being malicious or careless in the extreme. In which case I'm insured to the tune of 10 million dkk and beyond that, well I'll be hosed in the rear end. My current setup is built on the advice of my lawyer and accountant so I'm sure it'll be fine. fake edit: re-read my contract with current client, I'm not liable for either: indirect or consequential loss of revenue, operational loss, time loss, loss of future revenue or loss of data. Heck I wonder whats not covered in this clause. Kernel Sanders posted:huh, that’s odd. sweden is more or less 100% aktiebolag, we have a different/simplified set of rules as long as your revenue is below 3MSEK and you have less than 3 employees. capital liquidity was just lowered to 25kSEK as well. Danish tax rules are intricate to say the least.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 12:33
|
|
|
My dad did the one man consulting firm gig from the late 80's and all the way up until his retirement. He didn't make the big bux but he wasn't ever all that interested in that; he was more about not working his rear end off. He was always at home during my childhood. Never thought about that back then but looking back I'm very grateful for that. Since his stint was before all the current conveniences though he had to do a lot of admin work himself (I think he made his own invoicing system for example, back in the early 90's that he just kept alive until he retired around 2010) and the billable hours suffered. I honestly think he might've been a bit too nice to his clients in that regard. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Aug 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 14:38
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:He didn't made the big bux but he wasn't ever all that interested in that; he was more about not working his rear end off. He was always at home during my childhood. living the dream right here
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 14:41
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:He didn't make the big bux but he wasn't ever all that interested in that; he was more about not working his rear end off. same. entering my fifth year of <30 hour work weeks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:03
|
|
|
yeah, there's a lot of value in working fewer hours, and i think it almost invariably turns out healthier than the other computer toucher dream of retiring early.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:09
|
|
|
Cybernetic Vermin posted:yeah, there's a lot of value in working fewer hours, and i think it almost invariably turns out healthier than the other computer toucher dream of retiring early. what would you do with all that time? I know myself well enough that it'll start with more casual drinking and before I notice I'll have slipped into a habit of Merlot on my cornflakes
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:36
|
|
|
champagne posting posted:what would you do with all that time? I know myself well enough that it'll start with more casual drinking and before I notice I'll have slipped into a habit of Merlot on my cornflakes having a house and kids knocks that right out of you because your on call 24/7 for poo poo breaking or kids needing assistance and let me tell you, it’s no fun taking care a sudden onset of stomach flu while three beers deep
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:44
|
|
|
or emergency plumbing while hung over for that matter
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:52
|
|
|
i want to work less. ive been tooling around w some game stuff in my spare time and it's kinda nice to be doing some programing that's fun instead of frustrating. it would be cool to be able to support myself w some kind of dumb program
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 18:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 15:06 |
|
|
PokeJoe posted:i want to work less. ive been tooling around w some game stuff in my spare time and it's kinda nice to be doing some programing that's fun instead of frustrating. it would be cool to be able to support myself w some kind of dumb program video games is the antithesis of “work less” that part of tech eats up people every day
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 20:05
|
|
