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skaianDestiny posted:Not exactly an isekai but adjacent to it, Endo and Kobayashi's Live Commentary on the Villainess has a wonderful use of "support magic" by the otome game's main character: I love that manga so much, Finne is such an absolutely adorable dork who totally fits as a Shonen protagonist(loves eating meat and fighting) and Lisolette is all of the tsundere trainwreck adorableness that you want to use every resources available to protect. That chapter in specific is my favorite. Edit: Looking at these pictures never fails to bring me to hysterics. It's amazingly awesome. It's a failing of the community that this isn't up there with Bakarina as the premier "villainess" Isekai. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Aug 21, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 23:48
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The Lady and the Beast just started getting new chapters on mangadex again!  A whole 5 of them, even.  I've always liked the "you talk like an old person" joke/gag, when dealing with old times reincarnators.
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Aug 20, 2021 23:58
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Jayme posted:While we're on healer chat, can anyone help me find a manga I've been looking for? Can't remember if the MC was isekai'd or just kicked out of his party, but I do remember him getting a job at an adventurer's guild and there being a Mystery Substance X that he had to keep drinking in order to train effectively or whatever. Last I remember, he was clearing out a labyrinth under a cathedral and bringing back boss items to show to the pope. https://kodansha.us/series/the-great-cleric/
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Aug 21, 2021 00:23
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SubNat posted:The Lady and the Beast just started getting new chapters on mangadex again! Nitrousoxide posted:It's literally a major plot point of Dragonball Z (and maybe Dragonball? I can't remember) where Saiyns will work themselves to near death and take a senzu bean to recover and continue training. They specifically also benefit from this not only because they get to train more, but also because their species sees large ability growth after recovering from a nearly deadly fight.
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Aug 21, 2021 01:15
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in wrong way, healing magic is a specific and uncommon type of magic that precludes use of all other types. those other types include a less powerful but generally adequate form of magical healing without those restrictions. so it is a neglected field of study and also the isekai'd mc isn't the one who came up with the healing magic + physical training regimen. and even among the small number of healing mages, not all of them have the natural efficiency with self healing for it to work. it's a niche use of an already obscure niche. it's not perfect, but there's at least some thought put into how the setting works.
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Aug 21, 2021 01:24
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There's two other (sibling) healing mages in Rose's city but the brother is so frail that he simply cannot do Rose's training. The sister seems to be focused on healing him when he walks out the front door and gets winded.
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Aug 21, 2021 02:06
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i forget if it came up in the manga or not, but that's mostly down to efficiency. takuto and rose are far more efficient in healing themselves than others. the siblings are the opposite, so regardless of physique or inclination (which they don't have either) they simply can't get those sick gains from extreme workouts because they run out of mana. before rose, people like her were an even more useless variation on the generally useless healing mages.
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Aug 21, 2021 04:51
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amigolupus posted:I've read this one and found it insufferable how it treats something as simple as "healers stay in the back and provide heals and buffs" or "tanks use aggro and take the hits" as something groundbreaking that the MC created and deserve to be worshiped for. The setting points out that the world's people have been going into the dungeon for centuries and treat it as a sport, yet somehow no one has thought to come up with basic strategy. I was happy to overlook this— it didn’t really make any sense, but hey, it’s isekai— but the newspaper arc really left a bad taste in my mouth. It felt unnecessarily mean-spirited and a bit misogynistic.
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Aug 21, 2021 05:21
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i forget if it came up in the manga or not, but that's mostly down to efficiency. takuto and rose are far more efficient in healing themselves than others. the siblings are the opposite, so regardless of physique or inclination (which they don't have either) they simply can't get those sick gains from extreme workouts because they run out of mana. before rose, people like her were an even more useless variation on the generally useless healing mages. The one thing that bugged me about the setting in that one is that healing magic is supposedly really looked down on. It's a pretty war like setting where anyone can use first aid magic but healing mages can regrow lost limbs, cure disease, etc. In a world where people are ranked on fighting prowess and and injury is the end of your career, those incredibly rare healing mages should be worth their weight in gold since they can keep everyone going. It's even sort of a plot point that having healers with the army is making the army way more effective than the demons expected it to be. Even if hulking out with Ultra-Crossfit is super niche, the general attitude against people with healing magic makes no sense. I do like that the main point of the super strength training is for evacuating the injured from combat and helping the field medics triage people. It's a shame that that almost immediately gets lost for Shonnen battles but that's anime. Also that every person he beats apparently is gonna try to jump his bones, but at least they are less obnoxious about that than most isekai.
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Aug 21, 2021 06:19
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IIRC it's because the traditional healer is basically too fragile to act as support on the battlefield, so healers don't really get the fame or glory even in the support role. The combat medics corps Rose is making is basically changing that because they can survive in the battlefield, can heal in the battlefield, and make sure casualties can escape the fighting to be healed by healers beyond the battlefield.
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Aug 21, 2021 07:14
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That's the reason given in the comic but I'm saying it doesn't make sense if you stop to think about it for even a minute. In this setting, healing mages are so rare that there are like 5 in a country and every war veteran in the fantasy world should be seeking these guys out to restore their warfighting potential every time they get injured. That's completely ignoring disease and plague which supposedly only they can cure. Like the first time the king or whoever gets sick a healer should be a national hero and probably on royal retainer yet they are considered low standing second class citizens in most of the world. Having healing magic is given as a reason for one to be stripped of noble standing and being forced out onto the streets as a peasant. In a world where war is prioritized, the value of healing and uncrippling people would exponentially increase because it's inevitable that you are going to have injured war heroes.
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Aug 21, 2021 15:24
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The junk collector posted:That's the reason given in the comic but I'm saying it doesn't make sense if you stop to think about it for even a minute. In this setting, healing mages are so rare that there are like 5 in a country and every war veteran in the fantasy world should be seeking these guys out to restore their warfighting potential every time they get injured. quote:That's completely ignoring disease and plague which supposedly only they can cure. Like the first time the king or whoever gets sick a healer should be a national hero and probably on royal retainer yet they are considered low standing second class citizens in most of the world. Having healing magic is given as a reason for one to be stripped of noble standing and being forced out onto the streets as a peasant. As for Rose, the main healing mage of Lyngle and the one that revolutionized the idea of healing herself to train. She is a former Batallion commander and even though she's stepped down to just leading the rescue squad, still has massive amounts of respect and authority within the kingdom and even addresses the king very casually without consequence. On top of having helped quell the demon army a couple years prior. quote:In a world where war is prioritized, the value of healing and uncrippling people would exponentially increase because it's inevitable that you are going to have injured war heroes. The writer covered their bases.
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Aug 21, 2021 17:13
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Naruto had whole plot arcs dedicated to the healers' role in combat, so this is absolutely not a new thing.
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Aug 21, 2021 19:26
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I think you are trying way too hard to justify what's ultimately just a dumb power fantasy where the person looked down on is actually secretly the best (which is clearly meant to appeal to geeks who are looked down on at school). Like, even if the writer justifies it, that doesn't make it not a dumb power fantasy, it just means the writer tried to justify their dumb power fantasy.
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Aug 21, 2021 22:21
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nrook posted:I was happy to overlook this— it didn’t really make any sense, but hey, it’s isekai— but the newspaper arc really left a bad taste in my mouth. It felt unnecessarily mean-spirited and a bit misogynistic. Wait, what happened with this? I must've given up reading before that storyline.
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Aug 21, 2021 22:48
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Speaking of jobs/skills that are improbably considered to be weak, the other day I ran into The Weakest Occupation "Blacksmith," but It's Actually the Strongest. If you have no clue about what a blacksmith does, then the series does have a kind of logic to it. When you're assigned to your occupation you get a magic tool specific to that job, so all the fighting-type jobs get magic weapons that are unbreakable, can be summoned and dismissed at will, and have special abilities. Therefore people who get the Blacksmith occupation are "weak" because people think that all they can do is make/repair/modify weapons, and that doesn't include these magic weapons given by god. No the series doesn't talk about who's making these full suits of platemail people are wearing, or where any of the other bits of ironmongery come from. It does try to cover its rear end a bit by saying that Blacksmith occupation is a job that's as rare as the Hero job, so maybe there are people out there doing all the normal blacksmith jobs who don't have magic hammers gifted by god. Of course it kind of trips over its own feet when the MC starts getting what are essentially tutorial pop ups that clue him in to the fact that Blacksmithing is basically a StarTrek replicator, allowing him to destroy anything he wants with his magic hammer and then recreate it (with no loss of materials even, which lets him grind out skill ranks). Because his skill is so OP there's not a lot of focus on the actual crafting aspect; it's largely a way for him to power up so he can work on his combat ability.
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Aug 21, 2021 23:19
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If you're going to base your power fantasy off your main character being really good at something and solving all their problems with it then you have an obligation to demonstrate your passion for it. The writer of Sengoku Komachi absolutely loves farming and agriculture and it shows and makes the audience enjoy it. Same with Nobunaga Chef loving cooking with whatever materials he can scrounge around. Metalsmithing has a long history of magic and mystique surrounding it. It deserves better.
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Aug 22, 2021 00:31
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Nemo2342 posted:Speaking of jobs/skills that are improbably considered to be weak, the other day I ran into The Weakest Occupation "Blacksmith," but It's Actually the Strongest. I just read this and I'm gonna think that the last Blacksmith (they're as rare as Heroes) lied about how OP they were so they wouldn't be stuck in a some noble's dungeon sweatshop.
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Aug 22, 2021 00:43
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Phobophilia posted:If you're going to base your power fantasy off your main character being really good at something and solving all their problems with it then you have an obligation to demonstrate your passion for it. The writer of Sengoku Komachi absolutely loves farming and agriculture and it shows and makes the audience enjoy it. Same with Nobunaga Chef loving cooking with whatever materials he can scrounge around. Kajiya de Hajimeru Isekai Slow Life is much better about that. His cheat is that he's been given unsurpassed knowledge of making swords and some physical boosts to make use of that knowledge. It's a little heavy on the MC being embarrassed when people praise him for his cheat skills, but it at least talks about making molds, removing burrs, and shaping metal. And so far he's only been making stuff that's unnaturally sharp and not weapons that can kill gods or anything.
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Aug 22, 2021 01:59
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What annoys me about is that even I know you do not mold or cast a sword. The properties of cast metal are good for some tools or mechanisms, but not for a sword that has to be both sharp and elastic.
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Aug 22, 2021 04:02
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Yeah you take rod iron and hammer and mill the poo poo out of it until it's swords shaped right?
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Aug 22, 2021 04:09
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Older bronze and copper swords were cast but steel doesn't work well like that yeah.
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Aug 22, 2021 04:48
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Fun fact, bronze swords were limited in length by the fact that they were cast instead of forged. If you try make your sword too long the molten bronze will begin to harden before it fully fills out the mold. Once Iron swords were introduced the maximum length became more a question of strength of the material and the skill of the smith, rather than thermodynamics.
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Aug 22, 2021 05:06
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Time travel  . It's not Isekai strictly speaking but it's Isekai adjacent in my book. Ever since MD came back I've been catching up on a lot of series and have two to recommend about people lost in distant worlds of the past and future. Ryu Ryuji Akasaka is a delinquent that has been recently plagued by someone calling for him and visions of a blasted wasteland. After a confrontation with a local gang goes bad he's thrown off a rooftop and instead of finding death finds himself in the far-flung future being told he's the prophesied Messenger of God "Ryu" that will free the now more primitive world from the clutches of the Kingdom of Doma. More or less forced to accept this role he shoulders the responsibility of raising an army for that purpose, but he's not alone since vestiges of the past have managed to survive into the future-present.  This one updates once or twice a month. The Blue Hole Penned by veteran mangaka Hoshino Yukinobu (Known for 'The Case Records of Professor Munakata' and 'Kodoku Experiment') comes a story about the true nature of the real life phenomenon of underwater sinkholes and caves known as Blue Holes. One of our protagonists, an african woman named Gaia (because gotta have an in your face name) was once a poacher off the coast of the Comoro Islands hunting for the living fossil known as the Coelacath. On an unfortunate night something ancient and dangerous attacks her boat. She's rescued by a marine research vessel and they uncover the so called "nest" where these creatures are coming from and some months later an accident plunges them into this Blue Hole which, similar to the caves from 'Journey to the Center of the Earth' lead to a world where dinosaurs still roam the surface and the oceans are filled with all kinds of ancient marine life. Except instead of a hollow earth it's a full blown portal back to the past.  Updates sproradically but is only 2 volumes with the 1st having been completed last month. Hoshino is probably in my top 10 for storytellers and he really loves to use the western aesthetics of science fiction in his works much to my delight. He's even done an adaptation of James P. Hogan's 'Inherit the Stars' and some sci-fi anthologies that are worth checking out. Clarste posted:I think you are trying way too hard to justify what's ultimately just a dumb power fantasy where the person looked down on is actually secretly the best (which is clearly meant to appeal to geeks who are looked down on at school). Like, even if the writer justifies it, that doesn't make it not a dumb power fantasy, it just means the writer tried to justify their dumb power fantasy. Having the bare minimum of proper worldbuilding to justify the main character punching undead dragons to death is much better than having the MC just show up and exploit something anyone with two brain cells would have already figured out if the setting were consistent. 'Wrong way to use healing magic' isn't doing anything deep or particularly special by explaining itself, but in doing so it avoids the issues commonly found in other isekai doing similar things is all and I can appreciate that.
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Aug 22, 2021 06:09
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Phobophilia posted:What annoys me about is that even I know you do not mold or cast a sword. The properties of cast metal are good for some tools or mechanisms, but not for a sword that has to be both sharp and elastic. The method he's using definitely looks more inline with casting bronze swords, though he does describe them as the "cheap, mass-produced" models which they definitely would be if they're iron. He does forge knives from a single piece of metal though, and later on when he has a custom commission it doesn't show him casting the metal beforehand, so I don't know if it's the author using hollywood sword making or if this is supposed to be a benefit of his "cheat".
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Aug 22, 2021 06:38
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I've genuinely lost count of how many times I've seen that Goddamn Fantasy Castle®️™️ in Chinese and Korean series. I wonder if it's just some model pack most of them have access to in sketchup or something, or a injoke at this point because it pretty much is omnipresent.
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Aug 23, 2021 02:01
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SubNat posted:I've genuinely lost count of how many times I've seen that Goddamn Fantasy Castle®️™️ in Chinese and Korean series. It's both.
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Aug 23, 2021 02:23
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SubNat posted:I've genuinely lost count of how many times I've seen that Goddamn Fantasy Castle®️™️ in Chinese and Korean series. https://www.reddit.com/r/OtomeIsekai/wiki/castle-nim/
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Aug 23, 2021 02:32
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It's going back a bit, but Wrong Way has a few reasons why healers are not treated as end all be all saviors before Rose. The two biggest being that healing magic is melee range (for 99.9% of healers) and healers can only do poo poo like restore limbs or other things non-healers can't do when it's fresh. You can't bring a stump to a healer hours later and reattach it. This meant, explicitly, that to use healers in war, they had to create specialized defenders for their healers, who would often end up dying to things that targeted the non-combatant healer. Rose revolutionized healing in battle in two ways; the first was to make super humans obviously, who can literally shrug off any wound and run faster than lightning mages can teleport. But her whole setup with the non healers who are hyper fast battlefield recovery specialists allow the non superhumans to actually contribute to battles without risking instant death. Yeah, it's a bit dumb thst no one ever thought of 'mandatory military training for healing mages, to ensure they aren't sitting ducks on the front lines', but you can at least see their weaknesses there. Having to create specialized sacrificial divisions to keep healers relevant isn't a great look.
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Aug 23, 2021 02:43
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After Castle-nim, the flying buttress warcrime is my most hated recurring structure in manhwa.
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Aug 23, 2021 03:02
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im absolutely okay with artists pulling from asset libraries for backgrounds. composing a scene with these things is itself an art form alot of artists will outright take a photograph and put it through a filter and touch it up to composite with their actual drawings
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Aug 23, 2021 03:04
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I think anyone who has worked for a living or played a competitive game can speak to situations where something objectively ridiculous becomes common sense in a field or workplace. I think that’s why I’m willing to give fiction a ton of leeway when a setting conceit is that everyone believes something moronic. It only really bothers me when it’s a historical setting (or a pastiche of one) but ideas or technologies that were well-known at the time are treated as total mysteries in the setting.
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Aug 23, 2021 03:17
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I have always, always wondered where it came from. Thank you. Now find the 3D model of the horse with one of its front legs raised.
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Aug 23, 2021 03:25
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SubNat posted:I've genuinely lost count of how many times I've seen that Goddamn Fantasy Castle®️™️ in Chinese and Korean series. The town and the interiors are cool and have a lot of detail, but man those ridiculous "arches" make me sigh every time they appear.
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Aug 23, 2021 03:39
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nrook posted:I think anyone who has worked for a living or played a competitive game can speak to situations where something objectively ridiculous becomes common sense in a field or workplace. I think that’s why I’m willing to give fiction a ton of leeway when a setting conceit is that everyone believes something moronic. I've been watching a lot of historical cooking videos lately, so I've lost all patience with series who do things like claim the isekai world would have never invented/discovered spices or sweetners.
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Aug 23, 2021 03:50
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Phobophilia posted:im absolutely okay with artists pulling from asset libraries for backgrounds. composing a scene with these things is itself an art form Oh yeah I'm not really faulting the practice, I just find some of the more popular recurring assets abhorrent aesthetically.
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Aug 23, 2021 04:34
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Nemo2342 posted:I've been watching a lot of historical cooking videos lately, so I've lost all patience with series who do things like claim the isekai world would have never invented/discovered spices or sweetners. Townsends, Max Miller, and Weird History have really done a number on those things for me as well. There are some bits of willing suspension of disbelief that I do let pass though assuming there's room for it.
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Aug 23, 2021 07:21
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Nemo2342 posted:I've been watching a lot of historical cooking videos lately, so I've lost all patience with series who do things like claim the isekai world would have never invented/discovered spices or sweetners. Romans used lead as a calorie free sweetener!
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Aug 23, 2021 09:03
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doomrider7 posted:Townsends, Max Miller, and Weird History have really done a number on those things for me as well. There are some bits of willing suspension of disbelief that I do let pass though assuming there's room for it. Those are precisely the 3 channels I've been watching while working from home, though there does tend to be a fair amount of overlap due to there being so few cookbooks from those times. I can suspend a little disbelief, but if the focus of the work is on how they changed the world through food I'm expecting them to know at least a little about what they're talking about.
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Aug 23, 2021 09:53
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Phobophilia posted:im absolutely okay with artists pulling from asset libraries for backgrounds. composing a scene with these things is itself an art form Yeah, art is tough and time consuming and having something that reduces the time spent on it isn’t bad
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Aug 23, 2021 10:10
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