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T series chips are just low TDP, I think they normally stick an M or H on it if it is a mobile chip but who knows if Alder Lake will follow that convention. The clocks might be pretty close but the K chips will be able to sustain higher clocks for longer without throttling to keep within a 35W window
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Sep 28, 2021 00:20
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Those T series CPUs are for applications where efficiency is the biggest goal. Will that T chip hit that boost frequency? Sure. Will it stay at 4.9ghz as long as the K SKU? Almost certainly not. On an extended single core load, will it compete with the K? Probably not. Will it do as much work across multiple cores as the K? Definitely not, and probably not even close. It's not going to be 28% of the speed, for most real world tasks it'll probably be 90-95% of the speed, but there will definitely be tasks where it's significantly slower. TBH for most people it really doesn't matter. You don't need to understand exactly how all the CPUs in a lineup match up. I sure as poo poo don't bother keeping track of that. Generally speaking, there are going to be maybe 3-4 SKUs that are worth considering for the average person, and your use cases and budget will narrow that down to 1-2 quite easily.
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Sep 28, 2021 00:34
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I dunno about knowing the entire stack but someone says to me "I bought a 3600x" I know it's a 3000 series part, it doesn't have an iGPU. I know it's predecessor was the 2600x and although they skipped one for some reason the sequel is a 5600x. because I'm familiar I can make educated guesses about the chip - like how it's a 6/12, and I could probably reasonably guess what a 1600x is even though I don't even know for sure if it exists. intel is just like an explosion at the typewriter factory to me. there must be some logic to it.
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Sep 28, 2021 00:45
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Shipon posted:i'm in this holding pattern where i definitely need an upgrade from the 9700k but it's so close to both new intel sockets and AMD sockets i just kinda want to wait out a bit longer for those Enos Cabell posted:What makes you need to upgrade from a 9700k? I haven't run into anything that mine doesn't still crush. Same question as Enos if your main use case is gaming. I could maybe see going for a new AMD chip if it's for productivity and you're rendering but for gaming? Upgrading from an 8 core that you can all core OC to 5.0Ghz easily for gaming is more of a want than a "definitely need"
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Sep 28, 2021 01:28
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A 400 is the lowest part you'd ever want, 600 and 700 are midrange, a 900 is the top end. What this means in terms of core count has necessarily varied over time because Intel started this convention 10 years ago. -K means an unlocked CPU -F means no iGPU -KF means an unlocked CPU with no iGPU -Almost anything else is a mobile or OEM SKU If it's not a K, F, or KF SKU and someone built a PC with it, they probably hosed up bad. AMD has similar letter vomit for their low power and mobile CPUs, they just haven't had as many of them and haven't been using their naming convention nearly as long so you perceive more consistency. What's the difference between an R7 5800U, R7 5800H, R7 5800HS, and an R7 PRO 5850U? What about a R7 5900 HS, R7 5900HX, R7 5980HS, and R7 5980HX? How do they compare to the desktop CPUs you care about? Just be glad that the Acer monitor naming people don't get to name CPUs.
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Sep 28, 2021 01:43
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jisforjosh posted:Same question as Enos if your main use case is gaming. I could maybe see going for a new AMD chip if it's for productivity and you're rendering but for gaming? Upgrading from an 8 core that you can all core OC to 5.0Ghz easily for gaming is more of a want than a "definitely need" Flight Sim really chugs compared to what I've seen other people with a 3090 get and I notice my GPU usage is rarely maxed out, and I haven't been able to overclock without just a ton of instability. Even 4.9 all core isn't stable for very long despite throwing voltage way beyond what should be reasonable so I just gave up. Lost the silicon lottery hardcore on this one it seems
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Sep 28, 2021 02:02
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CoolCab posted:intel is just like an explosion at the typewriter factory to me. there must be some logic to it. intel is super easy. it's just [generation number] + [three digits where bigger means better]. 12700 is the 12th generation of processors and it's the 700 series, which means it's faster than the 12500 and not as good as the 12900 it slots into about the same position as the 6700 did in the 6th generation anything past that you should just look at the benchmarks to compare anyway.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:05
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So there's a whopping 300 MHz boost difference between the 12900 and 12700? Disappointing. I doubt the extra $300 CAD or whatever it'll be is going to be worth that and four little cores.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:16
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CoolCab posted:i still don't understand how intel names products. i know there's i3 which is entry level, i5 which is mid tier and i7 and i9 which are the higher tiers, and i feel like i've absorbed via osmosis that we're on the 14th generation. oh, and you need a K to overclock. but beyond that it's entirely a mystery to me. You have the first part right: i3 is entry-level, i5 is mid-tier, i7 is premium, and i9 is top-of-the-line. The i5-11400 is a mid-tier CPU The thousandths place denotes the generation. We're currently on 11th generation. The i5-11400 is a mid-tier, 11th-generation CPU The hundredths place denotes the relative positioning of that part within the tier. The i5-11500 is marginally better than the i5-11400. An "F" suffix means the CPU does not have integrated graphics, and is a little cheaper because of it. A "K" suffix means the CPU can be overclocked (if also paired with a "Z"-model motherboard) A "T" suffix means the CPU is set to run particularly low power CoolCab posted:I dunno about knowing the entire stack but someone says to me "I bought a 3600x" I know it's a 3000 series part, it doesn't have an iGPU. I know it's predecessor was the 2600x and although they skipped one for some reason the sequel is a 5600x. because I'm familiar I can make educated guesses about the chip - like how it's a 6/12, and I could probably reasonably guess what a 1600x is even though I don't even know for sure if it exists. The thing about AMD is that within the Ryzen ecology, their core counts have been more-or-less consistent: A Ryzen 5 1600, 2600, 3600, and 5600 are all 6-core-12-thread CPUs You can't make the same assumptions with Intel because their core-counts have been much more varied across the naming-schemes, because they're had far more generations. an i5-7400 is a 4c / 4t CPU an i5-8400 is a 6c / 6t CPU an i9-9400 is a 6c / 6t CPU an i5-10400 is a 6c / 12t CPU an i5-11400 is a 6c / 12t CPU If, for example, AMD retains the Ryzen branding moving forward, it's possible that a "Ryzen 5 6600X" is NOT going to be a 6-core 12-thread CPU, at which point the "predictability" of Ryzen's naming scheme breaks down, but only because now they've actually used the Ryzen branding for enough years that core counts have started moving inside the stack. Besides, Ryzen has also had some edge cases where the naming was also inconsistent: A Ryzen 3 1200 is a 4c / 4t CPU A Ryzen 3 3100 is a 4c / 8t CPU And looking forward, the i5-12400 is going to be a 6c / 12t CPU with six big performance cores with hyperthreading, but the i5-12600K is going to be a 10c / 16t thread CPU - six big performance cores with hyperthreading, and four small efficiency cores without HT ConanTheLibrarian posted:Simply refer to this completely straightforward table of Intel's upcoming CPUs: MarcusSA posted:So 90W gets you an extra .3ghz? As I said above, "T" suffixes mean the part is set to run at an exceptionally low TDP. Also, that chart is incomplete, because we don't have full knowledge of the entire product stack yet. Between the i5-12600K at 125 watts, and the i5-12400T at 35 watts, we can expect to see an i5-12400 [non-T] at 65 watts. Also, again because that chart is incomplete, it's only describing the max boost - the base clocks are missing, and the T is almost certainly going to have much lower base clocks. For example, the contemporary i5-11400T runs at a base clock of just 1.30 GHz, boosting up to 3.3 GHz on all cores, compared to an i5-11400 [non-T] with a base of 2.60 GHz and an all-core boost of 4.20 GHz. Kazinsal posted:So there's a whopping 300 MHz boost difference between the 12900 and 12700? Disappointing. I doubt the extra $300 CAD or whatever it'll be is going to be worth that and four little cores. It's possible that Intel is going to gatekeep another level/algorithm of boosting between the i7 and the i9, like they did with 11th gen. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 02:42
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Cache is also left off that chart. The 12900 may have more cache than the 12700, and if so, expect bigger performance gains than a 300mhz boost performance increase would imply.
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Sep 28, 2021 02:51
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Bloodplay it again posted:Zotac's GPUs have 3-year warranties on them, but the stipulation on the third year is that you have to have registered the card on their website. If you have a receipt or invoice, you may still be able to contact customer service and get it replaced. It is not legal for them to deny the third year of service, even if you didn't register the card within 30 days. Update from a few pages back. Unsurprisingly, the Zotac RMA rep denied my claim, saying it was past the deadline. I replied with this link and some Internet lawyer arguments that they had to honor the full three year warranty. I'm dubious that it will do any good, though. On the plus side, I also read the terms of my Amazon Prime Rewards credit card and they offer an extra year of warranty coverage for purchases that are outside the manufacturer's warranty. So I may be able to get my original purchase price refunded, at least ($770). That should knock down the cost of a new card, assuming I can find one.
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Sep 28, 2021 04:23
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Yeah credit card extended warranties are great. For big purchases with non-insignificant chances of failure like computer components it's worth putting them on a credit card with slightly lower rewards if the extended warranty coverage is better.
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Sep 28, 2021 04:37
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More like Notac
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Sep 28, 2021 04:46
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Alan Smithee posted:More like Notac Or more like no tact for how they handled the warranty. With that said my zotac 3080 was rock solid and had zero issues.
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Sep 28, 2021 05:39
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I haven't been keeping up with this stuff - what the hell is up with those core counts? Why does it list two sets of cores?
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Sep 28, 2021 07:36
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KillHour posted:I haven't been keeping up with this stuff - what the hell is up with those core counts? Why does it list two sets of cores? The new innovation is that they're combining two different core architectures into a single CPU. High-performance "big" cores that suck a lot of power/generate a lot of heat, and "little" cores that are designed to optimize power efficiency, with intelligent scheduling to make sure that the cores are utilized efficiently. AMD is eventually going to start doing this too I believe, but Intel has beat them to the punch.
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Sep 28, 2021 07:43
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KillHour posted:I haven't been keeping up with this stuff - what the hell is up with those core counts? Why does it list two sets of cores? Intel's Alder Lake/12th gen series of CPUs, which are due to be released this November, are using heterogeneous core designs The i5-12600K, for example, has six "big/performance" cores, and four "little/efficiency" cores The idea here is that the big cores, comparable what you have on your desktop computer right now (with the attendant performance increase from a generational iteration), will do the heavy lifting such as gaming and productivity processing work, while the little cores take care of background tasks and other low-level processing The big cores have hyperthreading, so they have two threads each, while the little cores do not, so the i5-12600K has 16 threads total: 12 from the six big cores, and four from the four little cores
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Sep 28, 2021 07:48
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KillHour posted:I haven't been keeping up with this stuff - what the hell is up with those core counts? Why does it list two sets of cores? Alder Lake moves to an ARM-style "big.LITTLE" design. 8+8 means 8 performance cores, 8 efficiency cores. The performance cores have hyperthreading, the efficiency cores are Intel's atom family cores (which have been completely solid performers for at least 2 generations even before the 10nm leap). This has the unfortunate downside that Alder Lake doesn't support AVX-512, even though the last generation did. The efficiency cores don't support it, so they're limiting it down to the lowest common denominator, because apparently nobody has solved that problem in kernel / scheduling / etc. Actually both cores are supposedly quite fast, Alder lake big core appears to jump over Zen3 by perhaps 10-15%. It goes from DDR4 to DDR5 (higher bandwidth, and "quad channel/half the width" mode which generally improves performance a small amount for a given bus width), meltdown tier 14++ to a 10++ that by all accounts clocks extremely high (Tiger Lake will easily do ~5 GHz in a laptop form factor, although with somewhat dubious power scaling at lower clocks), and jumps two architectures, and supposedly the efficiency cores are about as fast (performance per core) as Skylake. So far this has usually implied lower clocks for efficiency cores, I remember seeing a slide about Atom vs Core efficiency and as the clock got higher (maybe 3 GHz or so?) perf/watt for the Atoms actually fell below the Skylake cores. So perhaps this may imply significant IPC gain in the efficiency cores - lower clocked but high IPC. Again, Intel has been aggressively chugging away at Atom for about 10 years now, Silvermont wasn't bad, Airmont was pretty decent, and Goldmont is actually nice (between Core2 quad and Nehalem i5 performance and IPC, in a 15 watt SOC budget) and the new generation should improve on that further. (So overall the calculation may have been that the efficiency cores increased performance more, for more tasks, than the AVX-512 support, and more than an equivalent number of big cores for very parallel tasks (and it idles down better than big cores as well).) edit:  We'll see, the proof is in the pudding, and I think the DDR4 version of Alder lake is unusually important right now given chip shortages and price increases. But this is Intel's first post-Zen architecture and it's literally several architectures, an (optional) new memory standard, and a full node leap to a super mature node, all at once. Personally I do tend to agree the big.little thing is potentially not for me compared to 16 big cores. Or even 32 or more with a Threadripper 3 V-cache or Threadripper Zen4 or Raptor Lake. Raptor Lake, as it does not have efficiency cores, should have AVX-512 support, and that's potentially interesting, as is the Zen4 which should have AVX-512 as well. HEDT stuff may come later though, I don't think that is close at this point, probably a year ish away. It is very interesting though in terms of reducing desktop/laptop power consumption and so on. If you pull 10 watts less at idle, times 100,000 machines, that's a selling point. That's the "not meant for me" bit. In some respects Alder Lake as a chip is really an OEM thing, we're just happening to benefit from designs Intel is making for other markets (and we were absolute last market to get it). Enthusiasts are going to appreciate having more big cores available and I think zen3 vcache, zen4, raptor lake, and threadripper 4 are potentially the more interesting products for enthusiasts or others. TBH though I'd even be interested in a really big array (let's say 128 core) with just the efficiency cores too, that'd be a wicked homelab server running at 3-4 GHz. Maybe Granite Rapids or whatever they call the Denverton style lineup will have something like that, Intel is doing chiplet very soon. AMD is moving in a similar direction and will probably have their own "little" cores in a year or two, that's what rumors have said although details are scant. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 08:08
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MarcusSA posted:So 90W gets you an extra .3ghz? T with high clock just means it boosts high for a minute or so and then drops to a 35W TDP. 8x 10ESF future-uarch atom cores in a sustained 35W budget probably actually is significantly more usable than most people would imagine though. Like give me just that (or a standalone Atom SOC with 8 cores), that actually kind of rocks. For a -T style chip just turn off the "big" core complex during "sustained" mode, and let the efficiency cores run fast.
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Sep 28, 2021 09:00
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The new innovation is that they're combining two different core architectures into a single CPU. High-performance "big" cores that suck a lot of power/generate a lot of heat, and "little" cores that are designed to optimize power efficiency, with intelligent scheduling to make sure that the cores are utilized efficiently. It's something Apple's been doing in its mobile chips for a while now as well, and brought to their desktops and laptops last year.
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Sep 28, 2021 12:05
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flakeloaf posted:EVGA queue just moved, the 3080 Ti FTW3s are trickling into availability. They're LHR cards too, so no need to verify anyone's actual gamer-ness before selling 'em Can confirm. Registered for a 3080 ti FTW on 6/3/2021 at 8:35:23 am PT. Received my queue notification on 9/27/2021 at 12:16 pm PT. Now I'm trying to decide if I should keep the 3070ti I already have or the new 3080ti. My brother in law said he might buy whichever one I don't want. If he doesn't buy it, I'll put it up on SA-Mart.
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Sep 29, 2021 00:15
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njsykora posted:It's something Apple's been doing in its mobile chips for a while now as well, and brought to their desktops and laptops last year. It's been a thing in ARM chips for longer than Apple has been making their own silicon, they're just following everyone else there
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Sep 29, 2021 01:42
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For those still on watch in Canuckistan: https://blog.bestbuy.ca/best-buy/nvidia
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Sep 29, 2021 04:34
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South posted:Can confirm. What the heck? I registered in October of last year and I still haven't been selected! Congrats...
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Sep 29, 2021 05:17
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I also got my queue notification for a 3080ti FTW today. Wound up selling the card at cost to a coworker.
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Sep 29, 2021 05:34
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Vasler posted:What the heck? I registered in October of last year and I still haven't been selected! Congrats... That's a 3080 Ti, not a 3080. That goon signed up the same day the queue went live it looks like.
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Sep 29, 2021 05:45
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Vasler posted:What the heck? I registered in October of last year and I still haven't been selected! Congrats... Pretty sure they just aren't ever fulfilling those entries in the queue, they don't even make those SKUs anymore because of the LHR thing
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Sep 29, 2021 06:46
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Shipon posted:Pretty sure they just aren't ever fulfilling those entries in the queue, they don't even make those SKUs anymore because of the LHR thing Non-LHR notifications were auto-converted to LHR, although there was an option to opt out because… Step-up also just defaults to receiving an LHR card now. Some SKUs originally (and still) shown have been produced/released and provably never will be.
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Sep 29, 2021 07:02
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EVGA for example let you sign up for waitlists for the less expensive versions of the 3070Ti and 3080Ti at the same time could sign up for the waitlist for their most expensive "FTW" model but probably isn't planning on ever making any of the cheaper ones.
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Sep 29, 2021 07:08
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SourKraut posted:Non-LHR notifications were auto-converted to LHR, although there was an option to opt out because…
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Sep 29, 2021 07:56
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Does anybody know if LHR has even made an appreciable impact on availability? I tend to check stock every day because I am waiting for the day that I can buy a 3080 for less than what I paid for mine, and then self-flagellate everyday for not waiting, but it seems to me that even the LHR stuff zips out of existence in about 2 nanoseconds*. *If anywhere approaching reasonably priced, which is still like 150% of MSRP. It goes without saying the obviously retailer scalped poo poo like 3080tis selling for 2k stay in stock a little longer.
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Sep 29, 2021 08:14
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:Does anybody know if LHR has even made an appreciable impact on availability? I tend to check stock every day because I am waiting for the day that I can buy a 3080 for less than what I paid for mine, and then self-flagellate everyday for not waiting, but it seems to me that even the LHR stuff zips out of existence in about 2 nanoseconds*. It is still just as impossible to buy GPUs through normal means as it was before. That's not the only metric to go by though, and it's hard to say if it'd be even more difficult to get a decent deal on a card through the newegg shuffle, prebuilt services, or whatever because the distributors would be selling more cards directly to miners like they did pre-LHR. In fact, I'm positive that LHR has made those other avenues easier/cheaper. It's just that there's a very long way to go before it cards are available for normal purchasing. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Sep 29, 2021 |
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Sep 29, 2021 09:19
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Just pulled the trigger on an obscenely overpriced 3080 Ti. Signed up for a discord and finally got a notification that wasn't already sold out, so I just bought it. $2260! I feel like a total sucker, but I can swing it and I'm sick of not having a working computer. Link for reference.
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Sep 29, 2021 15:44
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Giraffe posted:Just pulled the trigger on an obscenely overpriced 3080 Ti. Signed up for a discord and finally got a notification that wasn't already sold out, so I just bought it. $2260! I feel like a total sucker, but I can swing it and I'm sick of not having a working computer. yoooo noooo can you like....cancel it? If you're doing a 3080 ti at least get it from MC or Best Buy
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Sep 29, 2021 15:46
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it's not official but Best Buy in store is supposed to drop friday
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Sep 29, 2021 15:48
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Canceled. I was having serious buyer's remorse anyway, thanks for the nudge.
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Sep 29, 2021 15:49
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There are Buy It Nows on ebay for the 3080 Ti for $1700 to $1800, so please don't pay a penny over that for one (and even that is overpaying)
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Sep 29, 2021 15:56
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3080ti have been permanently in stock here for at least 3 months now. They start at ~2280$ so that is most likely why.
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Sep 29, 2021 16:12
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Giraffe posted:Canceled. I was having serious buyer's remorse anyway, thanks for the nudge. Goons often sell their 3080 TIs on SA-Mart for MSRP plus shipping. If you scout SA-Mart regularly you shouldn't have to wait too long.
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Sep 29, 2021 16:21
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Alan Smithee posted:it's not official but Best Buy in store is supposed to drop friday I got a 3080ti in the last drop for $1100 and a couple of hours of my time, at a relatively low traffic suburban bestbuy in Chesapeake, VA. The 3080s all went to people who got there the night before, the 3070s and 3070tis went to people who got there early, and when I got there a little after they'd begun and handed out tickets to all the people in line everything else was still available I'm really glad I got up early that day. gently caress Newegg & the shuffle and all the people who waited in line overnight to resell all the 3080s poverty goat fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Sep 29, 2021 |
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Sep 29, 2021 16:36
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