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endlessmonotony posted:They think everyone else is faking too, and that it's just a social convention to pretend like you care. This. I spent the better part of a year sharing a house with a psychopath, he genuinely believed that deep down everyone is like him, and the only thing different about him is that he didn't try to hide it.
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Oct 8, 2021 22:51
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The complete lack of empathy or even sympathy inherent in that type of reaction isn’t shocking anymore. Whether it’s losing a loved one or friend or a pet, or simply one parent being so lovely to you that you cut them off or at least consider it and the other tells you you’re overreacting or some such, instead of saying, “Hey, I’m sorry that happened,” or, “Wow, I’m sorry your mom/dad/whatever said that to you, that was wrong,” and defending you
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Oct 8, 2021 23:24
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Imagined posted:Oh without a doubt, I just would've thought a psychopath might have the self-awareness to realize that other people aren't psychopaths and so they should probably disguise their psychopathiness. Like, how do you reach middle age without realizing and accepting that other people really loving love their pets, even if you don't? It's lizard people, I'm telling you all. They don't have that bit of the brain, so they literally can't imagine how to do it. I'm kind of serious, just without the lizard people bit. I was raised by a clinically diagnosed narcissist (and I'm sure there was more), who was literally incapable of positive emotions like love, and her reaction to people expressing it was a mixture of contempt, hate, and fear. She was aware that love and care existed, but only in a dictionary sense. For her, the rest of the world was deliberately being weird and stupid, obviously just to annoy her. She would try to pretend, but like being colourblind, she couldn't make colours that didn't exist in her world. When she got it wrong, she would usually go for contempt, claiming that doing something affectionate was stupid, or a waste of money, or would clutter up the house. The examples are small and easy to explain away, it's only when I put them next to each other that the pattern is obvious. For instance, there were never any pictures of the family in our house or on her desk at work. When I asked why, the answer was something like "I don't want that rubbish in my house". No postcards, no christmas cards in a box, no mementos from trips, and no family photo albums. If anyone bought such a thing into the house, she would destroy it and claim it never existed. For psychos, this stuff has the same emotional impact as dirt, and why would you keep a clod of dirt on your desk? That would be weird. Everyone does it? The world is stupid. The same goes for pets. A pet cat gives them the same emotional response as a pet mosquito. She knew she had to pretend to like pets, but she couldn't figure out how. One day she casually wandered up to me and said "You should play with the cat more, I'm going to have it put down next week", and walked off with a small grin. (Edit: And then totally failed to understand my reaction to her news). Her internal landscape is so completely different to ours that she literally can't imagine how to pretend to be normal. She can follow an example she learned somewhere else, but when she has to improvise, she fails completely. Edit: Holy poo poo I need to read more Steinbeck. He says it perfectly. Double Edit: I worried some people because they don't like cats or cards. That's totally ok. The point of the story was that she couldn't relate to other people, or empathise with their feelings, and would react with contempt or callousness in situations that needed empathy. I am a bad poster and didn't make that clear. Dongsturm fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Oct 9, 2021 |
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Oct 8, 2021 23:46
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It really creeps me out that we apparently just had a president who suffered from that malady.
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Oct 8, 2021 23:55
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Bargearse posted:This. I spent the better part of a year sharing a house with a psychopath, he genuinely believed that deep down everyone is like him, and the only thing different about him is that he didn't try to hide it. I'm sure that everyone who uses the phrase "virtue signalling" is a psychopath. It's a clear admission that the person saying it is never motivated by compassion, only by money or power or whatever. An economist, basically.
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Oct 8, 2021 23:58
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Dongsturm posted:I'm sure that everyone who uses the phrase "virtue signalling" is a psychopath. It's a clear admission that the person saying it is never motivated by compassion, only by money or power or whatever. Totally agreed. It's completely normal to be altruistic and compassionate and always has been, it was once considered an innately human trait that separated us from the rest of the animals. We've since realized it actually exists all over the animal kingdom and can't be used to define us as special or more advanced anymore, and somehow at the same time a bunch of psychotic nerds have decided that it's not a valid human trait at all and never has been. Like, did they just forget how for centuries we would just be kind to others? Whole religions built off it? The concept of the Golden Rule existing all over the world for millennia?
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Oct 9, 2021 00:05
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deep dish peat moss posted:(she was convinced my celiac disease was just me refusing to eat food she cooked with gluten in it to hurt her)  yes mom, I specifically have celiac disease to hurt you
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Oct 9, 2021 00:06
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No poo poo East of Eden is really good, and actually has a poo poo parent in it! And a lot of themes touched upon this thread. It’s a bit of a door stopper but it’s also quite breezy.
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Oct 9, 2021 00:11
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Dongsturm posted:I'm sure that everyone who uses the phrase "virtue signalling" is a psychopath. It's a clear admission that the person saying it is never motivated by compassion, only by money or power or whatever. Same with “social justice warrior”. Anyone speaking up about injustice inflicted on someone besides themselves must be a phony just trying to appear like they care.
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Oct 9, 2021 00:12
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teen witch posted:No poo poo East of Eden is really good, and actually has a poo poo parent in it! And a lot of themes touched upon this thread. It’s a bit of a door stopper but it’s also quite breezy. “Did you love our father?” “…No” Not a direct quote, but drat is East of Eden relevant to this thread
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Oct 9, 2021 00:15
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Picnic Princess posted:Totally agreed. It's completely normal to be altruistic and compassionate and always has been, it was once considered an innately human trait that separated us from the rest of the animals. We've since realized it actually exists all over the animal kingdom and can't be used to define us as special or more advanced anymore, and somehow at the same time a bunch of psychotic nerds have decided that it's not a valid human trait at all and never has been. Like, did they just forget how for centuries we would just be kind to others? Whole religions built off it? The concept of the Golden Rule existing all over the world for millennia? Also, manners. It took me a long time to realise that some good manners are tests for narcissism and psychopathy. Not so much the ones about holding the fork correctly, but the ones about being a good loser, paying your debts, no matter how small and inconvenient, and even simple things like owning up to a mistake and apologising for it. Things that a narcissist or psychopath are fundamentally incapable of. versus e.g. writing thank you cards. How many of those estranged parent posts obsessed over loving thank you cards and skipped over the unimportant politeness of hiding the racist wedding photos when the daughter brings her new girlfriend home for the first time? Dongsturm fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Oct 9, 2021 |
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Oct 9, 2021 00:32
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Dongsturm posted:Also, manners. It took me a long time to realise that some good manners are tests for narcissism and psychopathy. Not so much the ones about holding the fork correctly, but the ones about being a good loser, paying your debts, no matter how small and inconvenient, and even simple things like owning up to a mistake and apologising for it. Things that a narcissist or psychopath are fundamentally incapable of. Thing is, you can refuse to follow social mores, which is fine. You can also follow them, which is also fine. If you stay to the letter of the unwritten law while turning it into a weapon against others or an excuse for your own behavior, now that, that's a telltale sign. Same way as how virtue signaling is a real thing some people do - you can tell they don't care about the subject, but they insist on the appearance of someone who cares. You'll find unpleasant things lurking underneath those rocks.
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Oct 9, 2021 01:01
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JnnyThndrs posted:
This story is a ray of light in an otherwise bleak thread. Thanks for sharing it! Also lol gift giving it took me a long time to get my mom to talk to me honestly about how it's okay to have a list of things you want for xmas/birthdays. She thought it was... somehow unacceptable (thanks to her mom) but after I explained it took a LOT of stress and frustration out of the equation she got on board. ... thing is this happened in my early twenties so lol. Ah, mom, I love you.
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Oct 9, 2021 01:23
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Dongsturm posted:I'm sure that everyone who uses the phrase "virtue signalling" is a psychopath. It's a clear admission that the person saying it is never motivated by compassion, only by money or power or whatever. I don't know about that, i know a few who very pointedly only do things when they think people will see them, and instantly want validation. one person would show up to BLM protests fifteen minutes before curfew, text as many people as she could that she was being arrested, then tell everyone about the horrible four hours she spent in prison. She only got arrested once as far as i know, buy its the same story for every one. Another was so offended at someone having plantation wedding that she loudly proclaimed all over facebook how horrible that was and that she wasn't going, but she didn't post it to her page, just on the pages of the five or six black ladies she knew from work. One of em called her out on it and she made it a whole thing. It feels like a pretty everyday hypocrisy to me, like the people i know who get really vocal about body shaming or policing peoples clothes do it all the time, just to people they don't like, or people outside their friend group, or it's different because its a man and "women have to put up with it all the time". You see it enough and it wears you down, like does this stuff really matter? Do you really care? Do you only care when it happens to you or someone close to you? It really gets to me sometimes.
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Oct 9, 2021 01:23
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WaywardWoodwose posted:Another was so offended at someone having plantation wedding that she loudly proclaimed all over facebook how horrible that was and that she wasn't going, but she didn't post it to her page, just on the pages of the five or six black ladies she knew from work. One of em called her out on it and she made it a whole thing. Lemme guess, about how ungrateful people are and how she was just trying to do THE RIGHT THING but etc etc etc?
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Oct 9, 2021 01:42
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Dongsturm posted:For instance, there were never any pictures of the family in our house or on her desk at work. When I asked why, the answer was something like "I don't want that rubbish in my house". No postcards, no christmas cards in a box, no mementos from trips, and no family photo albums. If anyone bought such a thing into the house, she would destroy it and claim it never existed. For psychos, this stuff has the same emotional impact as dirt, and why would you keep a clod of dirt on your desk? That would be weird. Everyone does it? The world is stupid. I never recognized this as weird until right now. My family had like home movies and a family photo album up until my brother and I were around 6-8 years old but then it just stopped. No more photos except for one birthday picture and one christmas picture each year showing how happy we were to get whatever they gave us. Never in my life has either one of my parents referenced them or looked through/watched them. I think one year for christmas my mom gave us USB drives with all the pictures she had of us as kids on them but I've never had the desire to look through it 
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Oct 9, 2021 01:52
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i had a strange moment of clarity at my mother's house when i caught myself staring at her barren walls in the living room. blank walls shouldn't bother me that much as a bachelor (lol no art) so it took me awhile to finally put my finger on it when doing some photo editing of my grand parents home and noticed all the displayed family photos on tables, walls, desks, etc. she had nothing of my two younger sisters or of me (this wasn't unexpected with her naked loathing of me). no close or extended family anywhere, no photo albums, no framed pictures or even childhood drawings. the only 'art' is kitchsy bullshit from hobby lobby/michaels Live Laugh Love OMFG FURRY fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Oct 9, 2021 |
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Oct 9, 2021 02:15
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Neito posted:Lemme guess, about how ungrateful people are and how she was just trying to do THE RIGHT THING but etc etc etc? Feelin' bad for those women. I have to imagine most people wouldn't be stoked for someone to post an example of racism on their Facebook page for their personal attention. Who loving wants bespoke outrage? Most people are on Facebook to look at pictures of their friends' babies.
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Oct 9, 2021 02:46
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The mention of thank you cards reminded me of how lovely I was treated because I wouldn't buy cards when I was on my own for the first few years. I was expected to buy a card as well as a gift for every occasion, and I didn't because at the time, cards were loving expensive. I made like $6 an hour working part time and cards were 2+ dollars. That's insane. That's not a justifiable expense. And if you try to explain that it was too expensive they'd argue that "If you REALLY loved me, you wouldn't care how much it cost. It's important to me". My family had a weird obsession about how cards were pretty much the primary gesture of love and if you skip out for any reason, it means you don't love them. And yes they absolutely were disappointed if I didn't wrap the present in fancy paper back then either. It especially pissed me off because we grew up extremely dirt poor, and it was irritating that they so quickly forgot what it was like, and used it against me.
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Oct 9, 2021 07:12
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Picnic Princess posted:The mention of thank you cards reminded me of how lovely I was treated because I wouldn't buy cards when I was on my own for the first few years. I was expected to buy a card as well as a gift for every occasion, and I didn't because at the time, cards were loving expensive. I made like $6 an hour working part time and cards were 2+ dollars. That's insane. That's not a justifiable expense. And if you try to explain that it was too expensive they'd argue that "If you REALLY loved me, you wouldn't care how much it cost. It's important to me". My family had a weird obsession about how cards were pretty much the primary gesture of love and if you skip out for any reason, it means you don't love them. This sounds familiar. I knew things with my parents had finally, I dunno, resolved sounds like the right word for it, when my mom stopped obsessing over thank you cards and wrapped presents and all that ceremonial bullshit. My life is significantly less stressful now that I can text one of them a Starbucks gift card after rolling out of bed on the date of [whatever] with a hangover, and that's finally enough to fulfill my obligations. At some point, we kind of gave up on formality, and things have been better ever since.
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Oct 9, 2021 07:35
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There's a particular middle class obsession with formality and gestures which has been rightly falling out of fashion in recent decades, it seems like.
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Oct 9, 2021 08:34
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I was just thinking about analogies to help me understand how low/no empathy people cannot accept that most people DO feel empathy for others, and I thought of things like being colour-blind or being tone-deaf. But they don't really work, because obviously a tone-deaf or colour-blind person understands that other people do not experience the world the same way they do, but a low-no empathy person is broken in a way that is so much more fundamental to the state of being human that they literally lack the ability to comprehend the existence of people who are not like them.
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Oct 9, 2021 10:02
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Dongsturm posted:It's lizard people, I'm telling you all. They don't have that bit of the brain, so they literally can't imagine how to do it. I consider myself to be a rather empathic person, but those two items are starting to make me heavily question that. I think it might just be heavily pragmatic for me. I for example do not understand why people are so horribly upset in movies where animals die and yet can watch people be murdered without a second thought (my go to examples are 101 Dalmatians and John Wick. Their plots seem based on a ludicrous overreaction to me). I like talking to people about interesting topics but never understood why people enjoy talking about the weather, repeating weird phrases they heard somewhere, or just my presence (like how my dad would always insist I go shopping with him even though he would not speak and I would end up wandering off). I also don't have decoration in my house because I don't see the point. Am I a psychopath?
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Oct 9, 2021 12:24
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I think there's a difference between a lack of interest in something and enjoying the suffering of another creature, human or animal. When I worked at a pet store, part of my job was taking care of the small animals, including stuff like the fish and birds that were for sale. I couldn't possibly give less of a poo poo about fish and I have a very mild fear of birds. If I walked in to the store one morning and somehow all the birds were dead in their cages and the fish were belly up in the tanks, my immediate reaction would probably not be "oh my god, what a tragedy," it would be "what the gently caress happened and am I going to lose my job over it?" I just wouldn't have that strong of an emotional reaction to it because frankly I don't care. But that doesn't mean I'm going to pour bleach into the fish tanks, nor would I let someone else do it, even if it had no effect on me. I'm also not going to watch somebody strangle a parakeet without stepping in, even if I also strongly dislike parakeets. Also as for the animals vs people things, I think it's a matter of desensitization in TV and movies. The vast majority of movies and tv shows are going to depict violence against a human being at some point and your brain has long since accepted it as fake so it's not something you really parse anymore unless it's a particularly gross scene. Violence against animals is much less common and unless it's somebody hunting a deer or killing a predator or something, it's usually shown in a drawn out and horrible way in order to emphasize how evil the person doing the violence against the poor innocent animal is, so it's already intended to be unpleasant to watch. Re: decorations - I don't know. I don't really put up decorations of photos and whatnot either. I do have stuff around my house that's decorative but idk, I guess I'm just not much of a photo person. My parents take more photos in a normal week of living with their dogs than I took of my trip the last time I went on vacation. CuwiKhons fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Oct 9, 2021 |
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Oct 9, 2021 12:56
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Pookah posted:I was just thinking about analogies to help me understand how low/no empathy people cannot accept that most people DO feel empathy for others, and I thought of things like being colour-blind or being tone-deaf. Sup, due to being a neglected baby I have like 0 familial love. My family are just people that want to annoy the poo poo out of me just because they've known me a long time. But that's not really true and I know that. I just don't really care. They're adults, make a new friend. E: I AM seeking therapy, thanks for asking!
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Oct 9, 2021 12:59
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AceOfFlames posted:I consider myself to be a rather empathic person, but those two items are starting to make me heavily question that. Probably not, I was only giving a few specific examples to answer a specific question. They aren't a diagnostic. There are a lot more symptoms you would need to have, like cruelty and manipulation. There are lots of ways to show your love for people, you don't have to conform to a list. You also don't have to like pets, but if you feel cheerful at the thought of killing them, then yeah, that's a bad sign.
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Oct 9, 2021 12:59
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AceOfFlames posted:I consider myself to be a rather empathic person, but those two items are starting to make me heavily question that. psychopaths crave validation, do you crave validation? sounds more like you are just a loner hermits are not psychopaths. maybe even the opposite. they are too empathetic so they have to get away from all these people and stop experiencing their drat emotions all the time
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Oct 9, 2021 13:05
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AceOfFlames posted:I consider myself to be a rather empathic person, but those two items are starting to make me heavily question that. Talking about the weather isn't really talking about the weather. It's acknowledging the other person and engaging in a little 'we are friendly with each other' ritual. 'Hot out today, isn't it?' is like dogs wagging their tails or cats purring. It means 'hello friend, there is no possibility of upset between us, all is well'. It's why, at least in the UK, disagreeing with what someone idly says about the weather is weird and rude. You can say 'Haha, actually I like this temperature!' but you can't say 'No it isn't, it's actually chilly' even if it is, because that's not the point of the conversation. It's not information exchange. It's ritual.
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Oct 9, 2021 14:47
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Rutibex posted:psychopaths crave validation, do you crave validation? sounds more like you are just a loner I do crave validation but I fear criticism and judgement far more.
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Oct 9, 2021 18:15
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Animals are innocent and pure and always love unconditionally, are therefore better than people, which is why their deaths hurt many of us more. Unless the movie is My Girl. Decided to give that on a rewatch on a plane. Big mistake. Although I also watched the Japanese film Travelling Cat Chronicles on a plane and I hadn't cried at a movie like that since Land Before Time. The cat doesn't die, but the ending is devastating for anyone who is strongly bonded with their cat or cats
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Oct 9, 2021 19:39
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HopperUK posted:Talking about the weather isn't really talking about the weather. It's acknowledging the other person and engaging in a little 'we are friendly with each other' ritual. 'Hot out today, isn't it?' is like dogs wagging their tails or cats purring. It means 'hello friend, there is no possibility of upset between us, all is well'. It's why, at least in the UK, disagreeing with what someone idly says about the weather is weird and rude. You can say 'Haha, actually I like this temperature!' but you can't say 'No it isn't, it's actually chilly' even if it is, because that's not the point of the conversation. It's not information exchange. It's ritual. This is (one of the minor) reasons I no longer live in the UK.
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Oct 10, 2021 05:32
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HopperUK posted:Talking about the weather isn't really talking about the weather. It's acknowledging the other person and engaging in a little 'we are friendly with each other' ritual. 'Hot out today, isn't it?' is like dogs wagging their tails or cats purring. It means 'hello friend, there is no possibility of upset between us, all is well'. It's why, at least in the UK, disagreeing with what someone idly says about the weather is weird and rude. You can say 'Haha, actually I like this temperature!' but you can't say 'No it isn't, it's actually chilly' even if it is, because that's not the point of the conversation. It's not information exchange. It's ritual. That sounds insane. That sounds like the kind of ritual an insane person would have.
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Oct 10, 2021 20:43
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Chairman Mao posted:That sounds insane. That sounds like the kind of ritual an insane person would have. I see you've met the British
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Oct 10, 2021 20:46
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It's called phatic expression, and it's common in many cultures. It boils down to "Hi, I am a monkey and I mean you no harm!" "Hi! I am also a monkey and mean you no harm!" "Bye now!" "Bye!" The content of the conversation is entirely beside the point. It's about mutual polite acknowledgement.
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Oct 10, 2021 21:10
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 I live in Vancouver and I’ve done this? Sometimes it’s nice to be acknowledged, even if it’s just in passing. …then again I was raised by British immigrants… oh god
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Oct 10, 2021 21:42
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I grew up with small talk bullshit chit chat and now I live somewhere where it’s a bit culturally peculiar and I miss it, even if I dislike it.
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Oct 10, 2021 22:01
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teen witch posted:sort of tangentially related but I’ve been mulling it over: what is it with people and this “I suffered with x, now you gotta” mentality? like, no desire to improve for the future but to instead continue a cycle of lovely things. Victims tend to become the biggest victimizers. Whoever gets hazed the worst becomes the most excited to do it to someone else. End the cycle? Make it so nobody else goes through it? Nope MY TURN TO DO IT CUZ REASONS. Its cruel and terrible but so many people are like this. BAD THINGS ONLY BAD WHEN IT HAPPENS TO ME NOT WHEN I DO IT. People suck. We don't have to but we do.
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Oct 10, 2021 22:05
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teen witch posted:I grew up with small talk bullshit chit chat and now I live somewhere where it’s a bit culturally peculiar and I miss it, even if I dislike it. I was always terrified at my mom's ability to make friendly chat with people in stores. Now I'm in my 60s, and I do it, too.
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Oct 10, 2021 22:08
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Learning how to put on the person-mask and make small talk actually helped a lot of my social anxiety evaporate. Now I know I can just say some boring, meaningless poo poo to randos, and they'll nod along, and everyone leaves without a memory of any interaction...and that's comforting to me. It's annoying to have to do it, but it's like having a script that I can lean on, and it makes my life easier.
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Oct 10, 2021 23:46
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Captain Rufus posted:Victims tend to become the biggest victimizers. Whoever gets hazed the worst becomes the most excited to do it to someone else.
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Oct 11, 2021 00:27
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