|
sean10mm posted:It's creepy either way, but isn't the "covert" pedo stuff in fiction usually more like "looks 12, is actually 600 years old so Actually It's Fine"? Yeah after I posted that I realized it was backwards. I guess this is more of a case of “born sexy yesterday”
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2021 14:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 23:39 |
|
|
Steve Yun posted:Kinda weird, isn’t Star Trek the antithesis of libertarian Never underestimate people's ability to completely misunderstand the (sub)text of a thing they enjoy, I suppose
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2021 15:02
|
|
|
david_a posted:There’s literally a character who’s a full grown woman that’s only a few years old. The Voyager writers are so smart they decided women of this species can only have one child and then they die.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2021 15:09
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:The Voyager writers are so smart they decided women of this species can only have one child and then they die. Ugh, that whole character is so loving gross in retrospect. Can't we just have a cute, short haired adult woman* who doesn't die, like in DS9? (*Janeway is beautiful but way too intimidating for me; also she's randomly written as incredibly scary, sometimes as a badass and sometimes as a weird psycho). (*gently caress I just remembered 7-of-9, but that was also incredibly weird in it's own way. Look, Kira rocked, okay?) Also the original attention to the whole Trek-Pedo thing seems like it mostly was contained to about 2005, until recently I think: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pedophilia-and-star-trek_b_5857
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 03:38
|
|
|
Starting on God Emperor of Dune and this is already about 10x more fun than the previous book. So many Duncans and big worm Emperor, and d wolves years before penny arcade! The previous book was super dull until the last 50 pages where the 10 year old boy with the beefswelling becomes Worm Venom out of nowhere, running around at 50mph and punching people's heads off. It did have a really yuck bit where the other 10 year old is married and her adult husband is understandably put off like "well you're too young for us to start having kids anyway" and she scolds him and says no she's actually a 10000 year old It's a shame the films will never get to God Emperor, it's kinda nuts theyr taking almost 3 hours to do half of the lynch dune story (which I just saw the spicediver version of). Barely anything happens in the first half of Dune other than setup which you could skip and just introduce as it happens And thinking about it far less happens in the last half Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Oct 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2021 23:19
|
|
|
I can't wait to see this on my ipad at work during my lunch break.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2021 00:13
|
|
|
Yeah God-Emperor is better than Children.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2021 00:22
|
|
|
i'd love to see Children and God Emperor as films, but one can only hope they're sensible enough to add 8-10 years to the twins' ages. you don't need a big age gap for ghanima and farrad'n to resent each other and let ghanima assert her divinity with a big speech, an arranged marriage has got to piss a living goddess off enough as it is i guess this would be less of a problem if women were capable of agency outside of a formal position as a member of the bene gessirit in herbert's writing Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Oct 12, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2021 00:31
|
|
|
If you have a decent sized HDTV at home and want the theatrical experience, just sit on the floor in front of your TV. The act of craning your head up slightly plus having the screen large enough that you have to move your eyes a little to see all the corners feels cinematic. I did this during Lawrence of Arabia when I got the Blu-ray and it felt surprisingly fun
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2021 00:35
|
|
|
I think the pre-born are supposed to be intentionally off-putting since they are essentially adult minds in child bodies but it definitely veers off into territory where I'm less creeped out by the concept than I am by the author who wrote it
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2021 01:31
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:I think the pre-born are supposed to be intentionally off-putting since they are essentially adult minds in child bodies but it definitely veers off into territory where I'm less creeped out by the concept than I am by the author who wrote it a similar thing crops up in Kubera (extreme spoilers mostly, good webcomic): Once some of the main characters go on a somewhat mysterious tour of moments in the universe's history, they see how Sura attacks on the ancient humans (who normally regained memories of previous lives at a coming of age ceremony on reaching adulthood) led over time to extreme levels of trauma and resentment over death at the hands of superpowerful intelligent monsters. This lead over millennia to many humans' previous lifetimes coming to emerge in childhood, which is regarded as a massive crisis in its own right. Sexuality is briefly alluded to but not focused on; more emphasis is put on demanding their full rights and inheritance from previous lifetimes and pursuing goals from those lives without any chance to form a personality, social ties, and priorities distinct to their new life. The Nastika King Yaksha, who is friendly to humans, remarks that once the last real children stop being born he might not be able to stand (ancient) humanity. Humanity in the time of the series itself is, at least on the surface, much more similar to what we think of as humans. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Oct 12, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2021 02:01
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:If you have a decent sized HDTV at home and want the theatrical experience, just sit on the floor in front of your TV. The act of craning your head up slightly plus having the screen large enough that you have to move your eyes a little to see all the corners feels cinematic. I did this during Lawrence of Arabia when I got the Blu-ray and it felt surprisingly fun I have a massive bean bag especially for this purpose, and it really does work pretty well, yeah
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2021 09:12
|
|
|
Uh oh the scifi author has taken a break from worm king shenanigans and he's decided to tackle homosexuality for some reason Oh no. Aw geez
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2021 19:16
|
|
|
A couple friends have complained that Dune was excessively loud, one friend even had to plug his fingers into his ears
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2021 20:50
|
|
|
Isn't there a bit where Duncan gets all affronted by two of the Fish Speakers being lesbian and Moneo gives him a condescending "I think you've got some real growing up to do"? Feels almost like Herbert acknowledging the homophobic elements in the Baron and apologising/back pedalling a little.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2021 21:42
|
|
|
Moneo just went into a big speech about how letos soldiers are women because male armies lead to homosexuality which leads to sadism and rape. It's a super hosed up bit of serious, philosophically considered homophobia.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 00:41
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:Isn't there a bit where Duncan gets all affronted by two of the Fish Speakers being lesbian and Moneo gives him a condescending "I think you've got some real growing up to do"? Feels almost like Herbert acknowledging the homophobic elements in the Baron and apologising/back pedalling a little.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 01:05
|
|
|
It should be noted that after God Emperor and its rants about how female armies could never become sadistic rapists like male armies, there is in fact a female army of sadistic rapists that becomes a huge plot point they're the same ones that have the mind control sex power
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 01:09
|
|
|
It might just be projecting what I want to believe, but I'd like to think Herbert would be just as happy to be wrong about this stuff. Even if he'd be easily poisoned by some of the worst memes that emerged after his death. I read some Hemingway essays in a book called "A Moveable Feast" that a coworker left in a breakroom once. The most memorable passage concerned his feelings about homosexuality, and to my memory at least it was a really great insight for like 1950 or whenever he wrote it. Basically he said his gay friends were some of the best people he'd ever known, but he had mixed feelings because fear of rape by other men was a thing that hung over his adolescence and that of most young men. Basically boiled down a lot of that hatred and fear into an honest statement of what was going on with his feelings- the sort of thing that made his reputation I guess.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 02:45
|
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:It might just be projecting what I want to believe, but I'd like to think Herbert would be just as happy to be wrong about this stuff. Even if he'd be easily poisoned by some of the worst memes that emerged after his death. I have always felt like 60s sci-fi commonly had elements like this, where it was hard to pin an author down on an ideological question because their books deliberately put in more than one view on a subject.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 05:03
|
|
|
I mean, the vast majority of people in general do not have anything resembling a coherent ideological structure, it’s just that sci fi and fantasy authors have a tendency to just let it all hang out.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 05:10
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:It should be noted that after God Emperor and its rants about how female armies could never become sadistic rapists like male armies, there is in fact a female army of sadistic rapists that becomes a huge plot point They are also descended from his army of women in particular. A thing he knew would happen. The God Emperor is always lying to you, except for when he isn't.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 05:35
|
|
|
As a queer man myself I was never that bothered by those parts in God Emperor- if Herbert asked a mainstream psychologist from the 60's "whats up with homosexuality? What causes it?" Academic opinion of the time wouldn't be much different from what he wrote.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 08:10
|
|
|
Lutha Mahtin posted:I have always felt like 60s sci-fi commonly had elements like this, where it was hard to pin an author down on an ideological question because their books deliberately put in more than one view on a subject. I mean, that's actually just stories. Even religious literature is like that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 08:17
|
|
|
Yadoppsi posted:As a queer man myself I was never that bothered by those parts in God Emperor- if Herbert asked a mainstream psychologist from the 60's "whats up with homosexuality? What causes it?" Academic opinion of the time wouldn't be much different from what he wrote. And I'm not disagreeing with you or anything. I think he had feelings that were probably shared by an awful amount of dudes born in literally 1920, and his stuff about homosexuality in God Emperor does seem like he's genuinely grasping to try to make sense of it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 08:40
|
|
|
Communist Thoughts posted:Moneo just went into a big speech about how letos soldiers are women because male armies lead to homosexuality which leads to sadism and rape. Oof, don't know how I forgot that. That's pretty hosed up.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 11:14
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:Oof, don't know how I forgot that. That's pretty hosed up. i'll save myself the trouble of looking it up and assume it's both more nuanced than that and yet also still exactly that gross
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 12:46
|
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:i'll save myself the trouble of looking it up and assume it's both more nuanced than that and yet also still exactly that gross The only nuance, I think, is whether you choose to believe that Herbert wants the reader to agree with Leto, or if you're meant to be critical of his supposed wisdom. It's a few paragraphs of really concentrated virulent homophobia. Yadoppsi posted:As a queer man myself I was never that bothered by those parts in God Emperor- if Herbert asked a mainstream psychologist from the 60's "whats up with homosexuality? What causes it?" Academic opinion of the time wouldn't be much different from what he wrote. This is a fair point but if it matters at all God Emperor was published in 1981. Still a homophobic time but the gay rights movement had begun by that point and Herbert was almost certainly aware of it as a social identity and not just a pathology
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 13:23
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:A couple friends have complained that Dune was excessively loud, one friend even had to plug his fingers into his ears I saw this in an IMAX theatre with a pretty big sound system and didn't think it was that bad. I don't recall any scene having the prostate-tickling low bass of BR2049, at least. Don't get me wrong, it's a big-feeling, often overwhelming in scale movie (especially in IMAX) but didn't think anything was plug-your-ears loud.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 13:32
|
|
|
Cognac McCarthy posted:The only nuance, I think, is whether you choose to believe that Herbert wants the reader to agree with Leto, or if you're meant to be critical of his supposed wisdom. It's a few paragraphs of really concentrated virulent homophobia. As somebody who remembers the 1980s this feels overly generous to the attitudes of the 1980s. It might have been MORE homophobic in a lot of places than the 1970s. Reagan got away with letting AIDS kill everyone for years because the [insert relevant slur] had it coming. poo poo, Lynch made Dune MORE overtly homophobic when he made his movie about it! Broadly speaking you're meant to be critical of Leto II's supposed wisdom because his entire gimmick is manipulating humanity to achieve some end only he can see. Plus everything he said about female armies not being rapey because of the lack of man gay something something is disproved in the next book that jumps straight into rape-powered conquest: the vagina years. I have no idea if he meant to do that all along, or if he looked back and went "Yeah, maybe I need to change course on that line of thinking, huh?" I think the real answer was Herbert was homophobic and that comes through, but also he was a weird guy who was constantly loving with the reader and just coming up with weird poo poo. I think just the fact that Leto II had a female army AT ALL was meant to be a WHOA THERE poo poo'S GETTING CRAZY, HUH?! move in 1981, but it doesn't land like it used to now that women graduate the Army's psychotic Ranger School regularly. sean10mm fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Oct 13, 2021 |
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 14:01
|
|
|
should we believe leto: yea: collective genetic memory of all his ancestors, is the living history of humanity cons: lived 10,000 years without having sex
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 15:37
|
|
|
"Is Leto II A Volcel" - the greatest thread in the history of forums, locked by a moderator after 12,239 pages of heated debate,
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 15:50
|
|
|
we call herbert kinky for the mind control kung fu sex, but to be honest basically any other sci-fi author would have let leto gently caress
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 16:10
|
|
|
Eventually cumbrain bestows prescience. George Costanza had only reached first stage.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 19:59
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:As somebody who remembers the 1980s this feels overly generous to the attitudes of the 1980s. It might have been MORE homophobic in a lot of places than the 1970s. Reagan got away with letting AIDS kill everyone for years because the [insert relevant slur] had it coming. poo poo, Lynch made Dune MORE overtly homophobic when he made his movie about it! Homophobia was an accepted facet of popular entertainment in the 80s. Reagan totally ignored AIDS because it wasn't killing his preferred voting block yet, just homosexual men and foreign/poor people of color. Having lived in that era and watching clips from that time recently, it's shocking what mainstream entertainment thought acceptable then vs. now. Frank Herbert was a man of his time. A lot of now unpalatable views that were matter of course back in the day. We can either chose keep embracing the good and reject the bad or throw it out all together, but not everything Leto II monologued can be covered with "he's a tyrant, that's not Herbert's real opinion". Having said that, the entire plot of Dune is a reaction to machinations of a group of women. It starts with a quote from a woman, the first scene is two women talking, the last scene of the original book has two women talking about a third woman in one of the cattiest things ever written in science fiction. It was a progressive work in a lot of ways but also full of cringe inducing plots and ideas.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
Yeah it's kinda interesting that there's so much gender essentialism in the books, and yet when you have preborns, abominations etc., Herbert didn't really investigate the gender ramifications inherent in that concept. I wonder, on the other hand, if anyone has a take about Alia's abomination being a sort of veiled struggle with gender identity vis-a-vis the Baron.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 21:48
|
|
|
Sure his women characters are literally manipulative witches obsessed with the perfect man, but at least they have speaking lines! Instead of abolishing the prison planets, we should just hire more women sardukar
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 22:52
|
|
|
I never quite know how to resolve the biotruthiness of the Bene Gesserit. Because the entire idea of their mystic powers is rooted in gender essentialism, but also they loudly say gently caress biotruths and spend thousands of years working to get rid of them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2021 23:31
|
|
|
what I always took from the BG was that yes biotruths exist but we are going to control them, not let them control us / society.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2021 00:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 23:39 |
|
|
Steve Yun posted:A couple friends have complained that Dune was excessively loud, one friend even had to plug his fingers into his ears I thought it was borderline aggressively loud According to my Apple Watch we peaked at 101dB during the movie so lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2021 01:05
|
|
